Questing for the perfect Wedges

[dru_]

Well, the new year is nearly upon us, and analyzing last years statistics, I have concluded that I really need to reset/restart my wedge thoughts.  The short version is that I usually play with a 4 wedge setup, and I am happy with that. ( many thanks to  several of our local gurus on the forum for guiding me through some adjustments in my approach there to get here ).

 

The problem is that my wedge gaps are a little off, but even more importantly, the performance of each wedge is so different.  I currently bag a PW and AW from my iron set, and then a mixed bag of 56/60 and sometimes a 64 based upon conditions.  So I have 48/52/56/60[/64].

 

These are Taylormade, Titleist, Cleveland and an older Ping.  I use my 60 the most, so for the next month or so, I am going to try as many 60's as I can lay my hands on to see what works best.

 

That said, I am replacing a Cleveland CG-15, which has been good to me, but it is showing some serious wear and tear of being the go to club of a guy that has had to learn a lot of hard shots from some really bad spots to be swinging a wedge in. 

 

So, first up is another Cleveland.  The 2013 Cleveland RTX-588 in Black Pearl.  After a quick 9 holes, the initial thoughts are a mixed bag, but most of my concerns are probably unfounded, as a misting drizzle in 53 degrees made for damp almost muddy conditions. It was very hard to judge spin/check behaviors.  

 

I will be updating this post over the next few weeks with pictures and some additional wedges. 

[BIG STU]

Well this is my criteria. First off it has to be visually appealing to me at address. Then the feel at address. Then the feel of hitting the ball and the desired results. Good luck in your quest I had a hard time replacing my absolutely worn out Vokey 60 that not only was worn out non conforming as well the same with my Vokey 52. The 60 was replaced with a Vokey 58 and it was the 3 or 4th one I tried the specs were the same but this one felt right so I got it. My 52 believe it or not was replaced by an Infiniti Assure gap bent to 52 The Assure is a cavity back big sole and it looks good at address and feels great. I liked it so much I replaced my Vokey 56 with an Assure SW bent to 56. I did not like the Assure Lob so I kept the Vokey 58. I never thought that I would like those cavity back wedges but I do. I have been playing those Infiniti wedges for 3 months now and have had 2 fairway hole outs for eagle with the 56 and several chip in hole outs for birdies with the 52. You never know good luck in your quest let me know how it goes

[EJ Mac]

If you have the opportunity try a Fourteen wedge, they are very nice and deals can be found on ebay and they hold their value pretty well if they don't work for you. Good luck in your search it can be very tasking until you find the one. The Tour Issue 588 w/ Tour Zip Grooves are really nice as well.

[whiskey golf]

I'm going to recommend trying a SCOR wedge if you can find one. I really like mine.

[revkev]

Ditto that above. You're a member here. Why in the world wouldn't you start withSCORs?

[EJ Mac]

I did pick up a set of Eidolon's (Scor now) this year as well, they are nice but either the wedge or the shaft did not suit me well enough to give them a go on the course. That can however change at a moments notice as I still own them. They are very pleasing to the eye but they just seemed to be a lot shorter distance wise than my current wedges on a variety of shots. The great thing is none of us are limited in choices with the vast array and variety of wedges available in this day and age, truly a good time to be a golfer.

[dru_]

Score is already ordered as is a Hopkins golf.

[RookieBlue7]

You could save some money and go have a wedge fitting. Several brands and or retailers offer this service. That's where I'd start.

[dru_]

You could save some money and go have a wedge fitting. Several brands and or retailers offer this service. That's where I'd start.

 

In theory, yes, but the wedge fitting at the two options close are both charging upwards of 300 for a wedge fitting, and neither offer some of the options that interest me (SCOR, Hopkins, Mizuno).

[BK in TEXAS]

The problem is that my wedge gaps are a little off, but even more importantly, the performance of each wedge is so different. 

You are going to get a matching set right?  I went 5-PW in my irons then chose a gap wedge loft based on how far the PW carried.  My SW and LW are all the same head/shaft for consistent gaps.

[hckymeyer]

Dru any updates on this?

 

My serious Ho season just kicked in and wedges are on my list for this year.

[BestGrips.com]

I'm loving the new mack daddy's by callaway. The U grind on the 60 has already saved me a few strokes this year. 

[dru_]

Just that I have the Hopkins sitting in the bag waiting on the weather to give me a chance to test em. It's been nothing but rain/snow since I got back.

[SeeRed]

Just piling on the SCOR love here. I'm on my second set (first was Eidolon) and haven't really been tempted to try anything else since. Their interaction with all types of lies is really exceptional. rev mentioned in a different thread that they do take some getting used to. Anyway, good luck with the search.

[RoverRick]

Don't forget, if you want a true Cleveland wedge, you have to buy it from Callaway.  I am gaming some year old designs (but bought new) Callaway Forged Copper wedges in 52, 58, and 64.  These are really good wedges and have chipped in with the 52 more times than one would think normal.  However, I never swung them with the factory shafts.  I removed the plastic then the shafts and installed KBS Wedge and Hi Rev Wedge shafts in them and played them the next day.

[Rickles]

Do either of you have an old wedge that you absolutely love? I know this is crazy but I have played the same wedges for 10 years. What I mean by this is that I got some dave pelz wedges over 10 years ago. The originals, not the Jesse Ortiz ones. The only wedge with non conforming grooves is the 64 which I do not really play anyway. They have that dura steel stuff in the faces and The grooves really don't wear out. When I scratch my nail down the face the grooves are better than my year old forged irons. I have replaced them once, but I scour ebay for them constantly and when one popped up in mint condition for cheap I bought it. I have gotten so used to them that if I get to the point where I can't find them anymore I don't know what I'll do. I have been testing a scor in 59 just because it is so good out of the sand, but I still don't like it as much for the other shots. I just got so used to them.

 

All that rant was just to say that if you have a wedge you really love, just try to find a mint condition replacement on Ebay. You could also send them to someplace like the iron factory and have them regrooved.

[Blade]

Don't forget, if you want a true Cleveland wedge, you have to buy it from Callaway. I am gaming some year old designs (but bought new) Callaway Forged Copper wedges in 52, 58, and 64. These are really good wedges and have chipped in with the 52 more times than one would think normal. However, I never swung them with the factory shafts. I removed the plastic then the shafts and installed KBS Wedge and Hi Rev Wedge shafts in them and played them the next day.

BTW, how does that finish hold up on those?

[whiskey golf]

BTW, how does that finish hold up on those?

 

I know this question was meant for Rick but my friend has one of those wedges and the finish on the face wore down completely. It's amazing how much wear it had but I don't know how often he hits those wedges, he practices a lot but I don't know how often exactly.

[BestGrips.com]

I know this question was meant for Rick but my friend has one of those wedges and the finish on the face wore down completely. It's amazing how much wear it had but I don't know how often he hits those wedges, he practices a lot but I don't know how often exactly.

 

Is that a good thing or a bad thing? On one side it means you have to replace faster. On the other it means they are really soft. I don't like this move to the 8620 cast wedges. I've always preferred soft wedges.

[whiskey golf]

Is that a good thing or a bad thing? On one side it means you have to replace faster. On the other it means they are really soft. I don't like this move to the 8620 cast wedges. I've always preferred soft wedges.

 

For me, I wouldn't care because I like the way Callaway wedges feel it wouldn't matter if they look really worn down, as long as they feel and play good. I can see it as a problem if you like your clubs looking as new as possible, then they aren't for you. And I think the grooves are still fine on his wedge, it's just the finish so there's no need to replace unless you have to money and always want new looking wedges.

[BestGrips.com]

For me, I wouldn't care because I like the way Callaway wedges feel it wouldn't matter if they look really worn down, as long as they feel and play good. I can see it as a problem if you like your clubs looking as new as possible, then they aren't for you. And I think the grooves are still fine on his wedge, it's just the finish so there's no need to replace unless you have to money and always want new looking wedges.

 

 

Ohhhhh. I misunderstood worn.  That's why I always go stainless. Way too OCD for a special finish.

[dru_]

truth is that I have never found a wedge that really hit the 'love'.  I've hit a few that I liked, but nothing that really jumped out at me.

 

On that note, today I played my first 9 with the Hopkins 60, and so far, it shows promise.  I am playing again tomorrow, with the RTX-588, but my gut feel is that the RTX simply isn't the right stick for me.  I can see that for some players, the RTX is a fantastic wedge, but as 'down' as I swing, and my natural 'peel the turf' swing, I launch the RTX 60* more like a 64 with enough spin to pull the ball backwards 2-3 feet *UP HILL*! on a couple of the greens I play regularly.

[dru_]

Well, more in the quest to find the best wedges for me.  

 

My goal here is to find a 60* club that I have confidence in for the 65-80 yard full swings and 25-40 yard half swing and 10-20 yard 30% flop, and then replace my 56* to match it.  This is not about the best club on the market, it is all about the best club for me, a guy that loses more shots between 10-80 yards than anywhere else on the course. 

 

The RTX-588 is a very good wedge, and yet, I hate it.  There is such a thing as too much spin, and a sole that will play great for some people and not so much for others.  In a nutshell, that is the 588 for me.  Great execution on Cleveland's part, but I may as well be playing a 64* as high and short and spinning as I launch this beast.  

 

Which led to the Hopkins Golf 60* I was testing.  Great idea, great club, and I love the business model. The product is gorgeous out of the box.  It meets all expectations, right up until those expectations met my hands.  I want to note, that in the hands of a better player than myself, it's performance was absolutely stellar, and yes there is a story there. However, in my hands, this incredibly playable wedge was a thing of confidence shattering problems.  As noted in the past, I hit 'down' on the ball pretty strongly in my wedges and shorter irons.  The net result of this is that I have an effective loft at impact that is probably closer to 56* than 60* but I produce spin rates that can have really strange results on greens. 

 

The Hopkins Golf 60* is, dare I say this, one of the best lob wedges I have ever seen in play, but much like the RTX, in my hands I was finding it both short, but more interestingly (to me at least) was the results of my spin created a behavior on landing that I just could not get a handle on in my practice rounds with it.  I have an expectation that my short wedges will hop once and come to a stop in a more or less straight line with my ball flight.  With this particular club, and my particular swing, the result was a hop and stop, at about 90* from the line of the ball flight ( consistently to the right I should note ). We never figured out why, but it was consistent, and extremely frustrating. I absolutely love everything else about the club, but I just couldn't seem to nail this down.  Fortunately, one of may playing partners had a bit of a problem with his 60* during my last round with the Hopkins and he played the round out with it.  It was perfect for him, and so it is, that he now has a shiny new to him black satin Hopkins Golf 60*. 

 

Next on the list was to acquire a SCOR 60* to test.  However that plan got derailed over the weekend on the off hand thought/idea/suggestion of my instructor. 

 

What about the SpeeBlade set matching lob wedge ( 60* ) with it's ATV sole?  So we grabbed one out of the demo box and I played the next 36 holes with it. The result is simple.

 

I believe my search is over, and the ATV sole has converted me, despite my (significant) reservations about a wedge with what can only be described as a fat arse, you cannot see that arse when you are looking down at the club, and the result are really confidence inducing.  You can still open and close the face to produce the shots you want, but that fat arse will help keep me from some of my most common, lack of confidence mistakes.  In 36 holes, not a single duffed, or skulled wedge.  I misjudged some distances, but that is normal for playing with a new club.  I won't say for sure that this mission is completed yet, but I am getting awfully close to going with closing the book on this search.

 

Color me impressed with the ATV sole on the SpeedBlade set wedges.

[hckymeyer]

Nice Dru, hopefully your search is coming to a close.  I decided to go the cheaper route for now, and then maybe revisit in the spring once I can actually get on a course.  Last year I played a 49° GW (amp cell that matches the irons) and 56/60 Scratch wedge setup,  I wanted something with better gaps so I'm getting my 53° Scratch wedge (that was bent to 52) bent to 54 and i picked up a 58 scratch for $35. 

 

I think that should hold me over until I can test out the new TM Tour Preferred wedges.

[revkev]

Dru - I thought I'd chime in here with similar advice to some that I gave a buddy of mine.

 

The 60 is a very difficult club to hit - its the 3 wood of the lower end of the bag if you will.  That could easily be why you haven't found one that you love or why you have some success and then its gone.  Personally I don't think its worth carrying one at your handicap level because you have other things to work on.  I have to make sure that I practice with mine occasionally or else........  I had that or else occur last Friday and I made double by the way.  Sometimes I wonder why I didn't go 54/58 instead of 55/60 in fact.

 

At any rate just some food for thought.

[dru_]

Dru - I thought I'd chime in here with similar advice to some that I gave a buddy of mine.

 

The 60 is a very difficult club to hit - its the 3 wood of the lower end of the bag if you will.  That could easily be why you haven't found one that you love or why you have some success and then its gone.  Personally I don't think its worth carrying one at your handicap level because you have other things to work on.  I have to make sure that I practice with mine occasionally or else........  I had that or else occur last Friday and I made double by the way.  Sometimes I wonder why I didn't go 54/58 instead of 55/60 in fact.

 

At any rate just some food for thought.

 

 

The problem is this.  I'm not sure I really have a place better to work on, and it's the club I practice with the most trying to get it right. I average less than 2 putts per hole ( between 32-34 putts per round ).  I've reduced the tee box problems to a minimum. From 100-180 yards out, I am hitting the green at about a 65% rate in the last 2 months (excepting a really shitty round in California).

 

The last time I went out prior to this weekend, in an 18 hole round I lost 12! shots to errant 60* shots (and this has been a pattern since my old 60* bought the farm at the end of the summer). This weekend I shot played 1 full round and two 9's with this ATV sole wedge, and was 11 strokes better for each 18 holes worth of golf, without a single hole that required more than 2 wedge shots and only 3 that needed more than 1, all three of those coming from green side bunkers. 

 

That is why this is such a big deal for me.  Looking at the raw numbers, I lose the most shots since the season ended in this territory.  Also keep in mind that my handicap at the end of the season was a 12.1.  It has floated up a good bit during the winter, but I suspect the next revision is going to come back down a good bit after this weekend, and if I have another round next weekend like these, I should be back in the range I expect to be in.  ( 82, 39, 41 )

[revkev]

Well there could be another issue.  Are you using the 60 out of the sand and if so why?  Your real issue may lie with your 56 which should normally be your SW. 

 

Also there are options from that 50-70 range other than hitting the 60 - You can grip down on the 56.  You can develope half and three quarter swings with the 56 and for that matter with your AW - I'm thinking you may have 6 degrees between that AW and your 56 which is too much.

 

You do understand that all I'm trying to get you to do is think about alternative solutions to the problem.  If you're spending all this time and energy and its not bearing fruit perhaps another approach will.  I know that I have 6 options with both of my shorter wedges (my SCORs) along with a flop shot that is a move of last resort and I have two of those.  It took some practice but no more than you're describing. 

 

From 60 yards I can hit a full 60 (I could try and stretch it a bit longer but don't like to) or a 3/4 inch grip down 55 or a full two inch grip down 55 - Obviously there is a difference between the trajectory and the way that each of those shots reacts once it hits the green - I made 4 birdies last Friday and 3 of the 4 came from some variation off of those two wedges - variations that I was prepared for through practice.  If you have choices you would have a back up plan when one of the options is failing - that happens to me - when it does I never hit anything with a wedge more than 3/4.

 

All thoughts for you to chew on.

[whiskey golf]

Just out of curiosity, why didn't your instructor recommend the SCOR?

[dru_]

Well there could be another issue.  Are you using the 60 out of the sand and if so why?  Your real issue may lie with your 56 which should normally be your SW. 

 

Also there are options from that 50-70 range other than hitting the 60 - You can grip down on the 56.  You can develope half and three quarter swings with the 56 and for that matter with your AW - I'm thinking you may have 6 degrees between that AW and your 56 which is too much.

 

You do understand that all I'm trying to get you to do is think about alternative solutions to the problem.  If you're spending all this time and energy and its not bearing fruit perhaps another approach will.  I know that I have 6 options with both of my shorter wedges (my SCORs) along with a flop shot that is a move of last resort and I have two of those.  It took some practice but no more than you're describing. 

 

From 60 yards I can hit a full 60 (I could try and stretch it a bit longer but don't like to) or a 3/4 inch grip down 55 or a full two inch grip down 55 - Obviously there is a difference between the trajectory and the way that each of those shots reacts once it hits the green - I made 4 birdies last Friday and 3 of the 4 came from some variation off of those two wedges - variations that I was prepared for through practice.  If you have choices you would have a back up plan when one of the options is failing - that happens to me - when it does I never hit anything with a wedge more than 3/4.

 

All thoughts for you to chew on.

 

I flip between the 60 and 56 from the sand, depending upon the texture of the sand.  Right now with all the cold and wet, the bunkers are very hard, so the 3 traps ( green side ) this weekend were far better suited to picking it out with the 60 than trying to swing through the sand with a 56.

 

And you are right, there are other options, and I use them situationally, but honestly, it just eats at me to have something I just cannot get right.  That's one of the personality flaws (of many) that I suffer from.  It doesn't help that in the last month I have literally changed every club but the putter in the bag, and even the bag is new as of christmas. the putter just took a short vacation to get a new grip put on it.   

 

In all of this, I've gotten comfortable with the AW (51*) as a 50 yard solution, and a 110 solution.  I've tried the PW for the 60-70 yard solution using a half swing, but I find that the ball flight and landing are too prone to very long releases on the greens, so I keep coming back to the 60*.  What is even more annoying is that from the closely cropped fairways I am fine if it is dry.  If however, the ball is sitting in damp/wet area (and that has been the norm this winter), I am just hot mess of failure .  

 

Compounding matters is that I played a quite old LW from the set of clubs I played before I had kids for the last 5 years, and it was great for me.  a chunky sole, very small head shape. Think Ping Zing's circa 1990.  Unfortunately, it died in a tragic accident.  ( the 6 year old used it as a pushing stick on her scooter and destroyed the head on the asphalt, before leaving it in the yard where a lawnmower ate it, yes it was a bad day all around there ).

 

All of that said, that is part of what I find so interesting.  Prior to trying to replace it, I never had a problem with a 60*.  I never took any of this stufff about it being hard to hit that seriously before now. 

[dru_]

Just out of curiosity, why didn't your instructor recommend the SCOR?

 

Short version, he thinks I'll have the same basic issues with the SCOR that I do the RTX and the Hopkins. The oversized sole plate keeps from digging under the ball in the wet/muck while still letting me peel the the surface (which is effectively the old wedge result, I peeled 1/4" beaver pelts, about 3-4" long starting at the back of the ball and through the face of the ball).  With the more modern wedges, it was more like 3/4" deep.  His point was that it is mostly in my head at this point.  I worry too much about screwing it up, and have no confidence in the club, and anything that looks like a modern wedge is going to give me the same result.  He mentioned the ATV sole SpeedBlade, and a couple of the other GI 'super' wedges on the market.  The ATV was the only really palatable option to me looking top down.