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bens197

Kuchar is embarrassingly cheap

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Forbes Magazine breaks down caddie pay for tour caddies.  It is basically $1,000 a week, 10% if player wins, 7% if player is in top 10, 5% if player is in the money and nothing if the player misses the cut.  I don't know if these numbers are for the guys regular caddies or what but either way Kuchar exceeded the weekly rate by 5 times.  That being said offering an additional $15,000 for the win is pretty cheap in my opinion based on the customary rates.  I'm sure we will never know the entire story but a bad look for Kuchar.  Even if he negotiated the rate prior to the event then that is premeditated cheapness.  

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The "holier than thou" stuff on the internet never ceases to amaze me.

Everyone on the internet does everything right all the time.

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5 minutes ago, GSwag said:

What Bamberger reported in American news sites probably won't even be known in Mexico.  Other than word of mouth, if the caddie here in question said anything within his sphere of influence.

Also consider outside influences as well.  Personally speaking, I wouldn't even be interested in traveling to Mexico, even if the trip was free, or if you paid me to go there.  The security risk is way too high for me.  All you have to do is your own US State Department google search to find this  https://travel.state.gov/content/travel/en/traveladvisories/traveladvisories/mexico-travel-advisory.html

What's funny to me is that a lot of players bailed on Brazil for the Olympics for whatever tripe excuse was politically correct at the time, but I have yet to hear one player say they weren't traveling to Mexico for any reason whatsoever.  I mean, we essentially have the same security risk in Brazil as we do to Mexico, or any other number of Latin American countries.  https://travel.state.gov/content/travel/en/Intercountry-Adoption/Intercountry-Adoption-Country-Information/Brazil.html

But as always, follow the money.  Brazil came with no purse and no appearance fee.  Mexico is free money to anyone that shows up and finishes the tournament.

Mexico is already well aware of this story.  Look it up for yourself on Telemundo.  Mexico is a big country, your first link clearly indicates five very small towns should be avoided.  The remainder of the country is as safe as anywhere else.  By the way, the US and Mexico are tied at 57th in the world in crime rate according to the FBI website.  The US ranks 1st in gun violence while Mexico is 40th.  I have been to Mexico on several occasions and never felt remotely unsafe.  

I do agree with your last statement though.  Follow the money, it will tell you Kuchar is cheap for paying his caddie 0.358% of his total winnings.  But that's my opinion!  

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I know someone said something similar to this, but I think an important aspect to remember is that it's unlikely that this caddie - who is simply a 4 day fill in will be treated as a normal caddie relationship with the same expected pay for those who are continually on the grind.  

I certainly think that Kuchar should have upped the ante upon a win and it sounds like he did, but maybe not quite enough.  Some have said 5% and I too think that would have been a fair trade off for a win.  

Hard to say much more with so much hearsay about the story and situation. 

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One thing I'm wondering (and I'll be honest, I didn't watch the tournament) is how much the caddie helped Kuch win the tournament?  I realize that he's a club guy but these players are so good.  I took a look at the website - https://mayakobagolfclassic.com/mayakoba/el-camaleon-golf-club/hole-by-hole/ - the fairways look pretty open and the greens don't look too difficult.  I'm really not sure he needed the caddy to do much work here other than give him some yardages.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not taking anything away from the work the guy did, but maybe Kuch just didn't think he did much to help him win the tournament and he was hired to carry his bag and provide yardages so what he paid him was a fair amount for the work he did?

If anyone 'deserves' to be called out here it is this Tom Gillis character who blew this thing up.  Why doesn't he just mind his own business?

 

FWIW - I was recently in the Rio Grande Valley near the Mexican border and would have had no problem travelling to a resort in Mexico to play; I've never done it buy my buddy has many times and he tells me that the resorts are like mini cities and they are safer than most places in the US.  Don't be afraid to go to Mexico to golf folks, some of the most amazing courses in the world there!

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1 minute ago, GolfSpy Stroker said:

One thing I'm wondering (and I'll be honest, I didn't watch the tournament) is how much the caddie helped Kuch win the tournament?  I realize that he's a club guy but these players are so good.  I took a look at the website - https://mayakobagolfclassic.com/mayakoba/el-camaleon-golf-club/hole-by-hole/ - the fairways look pretty open and the greens don't look too difficult.  I'm really not sure he needed the caddy to do much work here other than give him some yardages.

I'd like to know this aspect too.

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1 minute ago, sixcat said:

I do agree with your last statement though.  Follow the money, it will tell you Kuchar is cheap for paying his caddie 0.358% of his total winnings.  But that's my opinion!  

If Kuchar was really that cheap he wouldn't have gone to Brazil for the Olympics on his own dime and made nothing for a 3rd place finish.  Just food for thought is all.

Again, not defending Kuchar, or taking sides in this, because all I am going on is 2nd or 3rd hand information that is more gossip than anything else, but I do think it's a little harsh raking Kuchar over the coals over something like this, and nothing else.  The closest I can honestly say I am to knowing Kuchar is playing golf with his brother, Greg, which is another story all unto itself.

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If Kuchar had finished second, would this even be an issue? I am guessing it wouldn’t be because I am sure this all started with a reporter that interviewed the caddie about the big sum of money he received for Kuchar’s win.

 

Would love for the reporters todo a follow up story with every temporary caddie and see how much they got paid

 

 

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5 minutes ago, GSwag said:

If Kuchar was really that cheap he wouldn't have gone to Brazil for the Olympics on his own dime and made nothing for a 3rd place finish.  Just food for thought is all.

Again, not defending Kuchar, or taking sides in this, because all I am going on is 2nd or 3rd hand information that is more gossip than anything else, but I do think it's a little harsh raking Kuchar over the coals over something like this, and nothing else.  The closest I can honestly say I am to knowing Kuchar is playing golf with his brother, Greg, which is another story all unto itself.

You honestly believe professional athletes don't make money from the Olympics?  

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1 hour ago, GSwag said:

And all my life growing up I kept hearing and being shamed by people who told me, "no one likes a tattle tale."

The specific wording brought tears to my eyes... admittedly, they were tears of laughter.

Some people never learn. Thanks GSwag!

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There are several other stories out there about Kuchar being less than what he portrays himself to be or what our perception of him is.  Most of those have come out in the past month so,  I don't know how accurate any of them are.  Neither does anyone else in this thread.   That fact is exactly why I haven't linked any of them.  It's just more message board fodder that cannot be verified.  But some outlets are staring to pick them up as I have seen this morning.  What I find most interesting though, many of those stories are being "liked" and "retweeted" by several people associated with the PGA Tour, including some players.  That says something!  More will certainly come out as a result.

We're all certainly entitled to our respective opinions.  I have mine and it differs from many within this thread.  I'm fine with that given I have been contrarian most of my adult life.  Simply put, I will never be comfortable with the way this situation was handled from the very beginning by the Kuchar camp.  At the end of the day, this topic is not worth any more of my time!  My final comment on this matter! 

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3 hours ago, bens197 said:

 

The stories between both parties lack detail of any compensation.

 

I won’t budge from my statement despite many here who believe the contrary.

 

This action by Kuchar is a perfect illustration of our Nation and it’s selfish ways.

 

“A Man’s management of his own purse speaks volumes about character.”

— Thomas Jefferson

Definitely entitled to your opinion and take and I strongly disagree with all of it especially towards the character of people on this site of whom you probably don’t know personally and on the culture of this country. 

The $3k is typical payment for this type of caddie and that was also reported on by the Golf Channel insiders. It also not customary for these types of caddies to get the bonuses for made cut and winnings as the typical tour caddie or a fill in caddie would.  Let’s not forget this guy was fired during the Monday practice rounds by another tour player for an on course altercation. So he also missed a day from being on Kuchar’s bag.

It should also be no business of Tom Gillis or any other tour player to state what a player and caddie agreed to for employment services just as it wouldn’t be for anyone to discuss what an employer is paying another employee.

He was promised a certain salary, paid that plus another sum of money and offered additional money that he declined. News stories made this an issue that didn’t really exist and now he’s singing a different tune than when the story first came out a couple months ago.

Again you can think and believe what you want but unfair claims and attacks about the character and mentality of members here is not called for and I won’t let them go unchallenged.

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I’ve done a lot of contract day work in television production and when a Producer would call me at the last minute because their regular guy flaked, my price is more, not less. It’s last minute and you need to pay up for me changing my schedule to accommodate you.

Kuchar hired a man that undoubtedly knows the course better than every tour caddie there that weekend. One could argue that his knowledge makes him more valuable than Kuchar’s regular caddie and maybe helped him win, which coincidentally was his first in four years.

Not a good look in our current climate. Hopefully they will come to an agreement that is fair.






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1 minute ago, deejaid said:

I’ve done a lot of contract day work in television production and when a Producer would call me at the last minute because their regular guy flaked, my price is more, not less. It’s last minute and you need to pay up for me changing my schedule to accommodate you.

Kuchar hired a man that undoubtedly knows the course better than every tour caddie there that weekend. One could argue that his knowledge makes him more valuable than Kuchar’s regular caddie and maybe helped him win, which coincidentally was his first in four years.

Not a good look in our current climate. Hopefully they will come to an agreement that is fair.






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Good point...the caddie could have been more demanding or made it clear exactly how much he expected to be paid based on the way the player finished.  Sounds like a lot of "assumptions" were made and we all know what happens if you "ass-u-me".  😊

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25 minutes ago, deejaid said:

I’ve done a lot of contract day work in television production and when a Producer would call me at the last minute because their regular guy flaked, my price is more, not less. It’s last minute and you need to pay up for me changing my schedule to accommodate you.

Kuchar hired a man that undoubtedly knows the course better than every tour caddie there that weekend. One could argue that his knowledge makes him more valuable than Kuchar’s regular caddie and maybe helped him win, which coincidentally was his first in four years.

Not a good look in our current climate. Hopefully they will come to an agreement that is fair.






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If he used a resort caddie and not a fill in caddie. A fill in caddie would have been paid more in line with his regular caddie.

this would be no different than any of us going to that resort, St. Andrews or Pinehurst and requesting a caddie. They have their daily fee and in this case a Monday - Sunday fee. He is guaranteed that money Kuchar or his first pro made the cut or not.

if Kuchar misses the cut should he have given 1/2 the money back?

according to golf channel reports most golfers talked to this is a non issue and also one that shouldn’t be in the public because it’s a contract between golfer and caddie

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A friend of mine sent this me that he got from somewhere in regards to the Kuchar situation.

“Hi everyone, I'd like to offer my services for web design for your new product. Shall we agree on $3,000? Great. The website came out great, a $2,000 bonus? Thanks!! - Hey wait a minute, your products just sold $1M because of your own skills and sales abilities, but I built the website, you owe me $50K more!! Wait, $20K because you're a nice guy? Screw you, keep it, I want $50K because that's what I think I'm worth. - See how dumb that s*** sounds? Business is business folks, no matter what industry you're in.”

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If he used a resort caddie and not a fill in caddie. A fill in caddie would have been paid more in line with his regular caddie.



I need to ask, what makes a fill in caddie more valuable then a resort caddie? Both are hired to carry a bag around a golf course for a few days, assisting the player with traversing the course using knowledge they have to help the player they were hired by.

Why is a fill in caddie worth so much more than the lowly resort caddie?





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9 minutes ago, deejaid said:

 


I need to ask, what makes a fill in caddie more valuable then a resort caddie? Both are hired to carry a bag around a golf course for a few days, assisting the player with traversing the course using knowledge they have to help the player they were hired by.

Why is a fill in caddie worth so much more than the lowly resort caddie?





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A fill in caddie is typically another tour caddie who isn’t working a bag that week and has to pay his travel, lodging, etc as a players normal caddie.

This guy is a resort caddie and doesn’t have those responsibilities. He is an employee of the resort or an individual contractor and is allowed to loop at the course. 

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I’ve done a lot of contract day work in television production and when a Producer would call me at the last minute because their regular guy flaked, my price is more, not less. It’s last minute and you need to pay up for me changing my schedule to accommodate you.

Kuchar hired a man that undoubtedly knows the course better than every tour caddie there that weekend. One could argue that his knowledge makes him more valuable than Kuchar’s regular caddie and maybe helped him win, which coincidentally was his first in four years.

Not a good look in our current climate. Hopefully they will come to an agreement that is fair.






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Deejaid, I think you put it best. Well said.
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Man people have strong opinions on this one! I look at it from the standpoint of "if it was me, what do I hope my kids (or anyone else's kids) would see me do". I understand that they had a prior agreement and Kuchar didn't do anything wrong, but I wish he would have answered it by saying "yes, we had an arrangement and no, he doesn't do everything my full time caddy would do, but still he helped my win a million bucks. So I took the full fee for the win and gave half to the local caddy and the other half to my full timer, even though he couldn't be there. Both those guys had a hand in this win."
That would have been the feel-good story of the year!

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