WHO IS RESPONSIBLE FOR SLOW PLAY? | NO PUTTS GIVEN 141

[TheCount]

1 hour ago, BKervin said:

I definitely play faster with a cart than walking.  I agree it's the people.  We followed a foursome that had a terrible player who had a routine with each swing along with having to swing 6 practice swings for each hit only to hit the ball less than 100 yards and all over in and out of the fairway.  His buddies didn't rush him at all.  It was over 5 hours playtime!!!

I feel your pain, ma'am.

I tell everyone I know who asks me about golf that the first thing they need to do is spend some time on a driving range learning how to consistently hit the ball with a "reliable" flight path before venturing out on the course. I think it's rude not to do so.

 

Edited April 20, 2023 by TheCount

[Quigleyd]

I both care and dont really care about how fast or slow tour players play. 1. Part if this is a production problem. Rather than spend 2 min watching Cantlay get ready. Show action somewhere else. 2. Cantlay's slowness does not really affect me I am not sure how many rec players see tour pros and then copy how slow and methodical they are.. 3. lastly, if it is really a problem someone would get dinged for slow play. But they never ever will. It just wont happen. It would honestly only take a couple times and then you would see play speeds increase. But they know nothing will happen so there is no need to change. 

The tour slow play penalty is like the law on the books that states you cant tie your horse to the salon post for more than 12 hours without taking off your saddle. It's a law on the books but is not really a law because it is either not enforceable or no longer relevant. 

[GolfSpy_APH]

Slow play just sucks. When playing or watching. 

Playing it drags down rounds and desynchs a round while waiting for that person to hit that one in a thousand shot only to duff it 15 yards Infront on them. Or walk 9 times around a green to read a dead straight putt only go come up 2 feet short. 

Watching - it bores. I understand there is a lot on the line but this something that is done as a job. If I was to go slower st my work it cause issues galore and frankly they could afford to play quicker and give less excuses for commercial breaks.

End of rant haha 

[gophergutz]

On 4/19/2023 at 1:42 PM, Preeway said:

I agree to an extent. You and I could use a cart and play the same speed, if not faster, than walking. And yes, it is the golfer who uses the cart in the worst way possible that slows down the game. These same golfers probably take 5 hours to play walking and now take even longer with a cart because they have no idea how to play quickly. 

Maybe some of the golfers who think taking 3 clubs or so, oh and their rangefinder too, and walking to their ball while their cart partner is hitting, is a pain in the ass, yet claims he likes (or was it doesn't mind ?) walking, could be a part of the problem as well, no ?

I mean seriously, if golfers were TAUGHT how to use a cart properly there'd be no "cart problem".

The math ain't that hard. Adults walk at about 3 mph. That's about 7 minutes on a 350 yard hole. Carts go an average of 12 mph - so about 1.75 minutes to cover the same distance. And yes, the cart doesn't always travel in the straight line a walker does, but still,,,,,,,,,,,,,

[Preeway]

1 minute ago, gophergutz said:

Maybe some of the golfers who think taking 3 clubs or so, oh and their rangefinder too, and walking to their ball while their cart partner is hitting, is a pain in the ass, yet claims he likes (or was it doesn't mind ?) walking, could be a part of the problem as well, no ?

I mean seriously, if golfers were TAUGHT how to use a cart properly there'd be no "cart problem".

The math ain't that hard. Adults walk at about 3 mph. That's about 7 minutes on a 350 yard hole. Carts go an average of 12 mph - so about 1.75 minutes to cover the same distance. And yes, the cart doesn't always travel in the straight line a walker does, but still,,,,,,,,,,,,,

It’s real simple. I can walk the same course as others in a cart and I’m the one waiting on them. Not the other way around. Pretty simple and straightforward actually. 

[gophergutz]

21 minutes ago, Preeway said:

It’s real simple. I can walk the same course as others in a cart and I’m the one waiting on them. Not the other way around. Pretty simple and straightforward actually. 

LOL

Ignoring the point doesn't make it go away.

What's really pretty simple and straightforward is, carts are much faster,,,,,,,,,, if used correctly.

[Preeway]

2 minutes ago, gophergutz said:

LOL

Ignoring the point doesn't make it go away.

What's really pretty simple and straightforward is, carts are much faster,,,,,,,,,, if used correctly.

I think that’s actually the point. How many people are actually using them “correctly”? The vast majority are only using them because they don’t want to walk. Not to play faster than walking. Carts should make the game faster but by and large, they don’t. 

[silver & black]

On 4/21/2023 at 11:39 PM, Preeway said:

I think that’s actually the point. How many people are actually using them “correctly”? The vast majority are only using them because they don’t want to walk. Not to play faster than walking. Carts should make the game faster but by and large, they don’t. 

You're right... I'm just lazy. Never mind an arthritic ankle and touchy back. 

[Preeway]

20 minutes ago, silver & black said:

You're right... I'm just lazy. Never mind an arthritic ankle and touchy back. 

Well done, sir. I totally said the word all. 

[silver & black]

On 4/19/2023 at 12:53 PM, Preeway said:

the vast majority of those using carts are doing so because they are lazy or don’t care about pace of play. So their game is lazy hence the slow play. 

Close enough to 'all'?

[Preeway]

25 minutes ago, silver & black said:

Close enough to 'all'?

No. Next time you play, take count of how many able bodied people under the age of 50-60 are in carts. If it’s anything like the courses I play it’s probably over 90%. I’m 50 with a tear in my left meniscus and nerve condition in my right foot. I still walk 75% of the time I play. Only time I ride is if the course is too hilly and my knee can’t handle it. I get you situation too. You and I aren’t the reason carts slow down the pace of play. 

[RickyBobby_PR]

57 minutes ago, Preeway said:

No. Next time you play, take count of how many able bodied people under the age of 50-60 are in carts. If it’s anything like the courses I play it’s probably over 90%. I’m 50 with a tear in my left meniscus and nerve condition in my right foot. I still walk 75% of the time I play. Only time I ride is if the course is too hilly and my knee can’t handle it. I get you situation too. You and I aren’t the reason carts slow down the pace of play. 

There are lots of courses where I play that walking isn’t an option even for the healthiest of people. 1) because of the layout and 2 it would absolutely kill the pace of play of 4.5 hours which is closely monitored at most of them

Not to mention in the middle of summer in the mid Atlantic isn’t an optimal situation to walk.

so stop demonizing people who choose to ride carts. 

[StrokerAce]

I thought this article was pretty good regarding slow play - https://golf.com/instruction/how-slow-play-messes-with-mind-play-smart/

It definitely happens to everyone. maybe not every round but if you're a golfer then you've had to do deal with it.
I try to change my mindset and remember that I'm in no rush and would like to be out on the course as long as I can. 
I try to reset by smelling the air, taking some deep breaths, feeling the breeze and sunshine, listen to nature.

This was particularly interesting; seems like if someone is slow you'll just have to grin and bear it.

How can someone politely ask a playing partner to speed up his or her game?

Tina Tombs, Founder and President of Tina Tombs Golf (Arizona Biltmore Golf Club): “I don’t think there’s an easy way to ask someone to speed up his or her game during the round. However, after the round, maybe that’s the best time to offer a kind gesture of your thoughts to speed up play.

“A few ideas could be to suggest that the slower player anticipate the next shot and have the clubs in-hand and ready, or to carry all their possible club options with them to the next shot. Other pieces of advice could be for them to start their routine while other players are executing their shots; which involves reading yardages, with a club in-hand. This will speed them up to hit when it’s their turn.”

Steve Bosdosh, Founder of Steve Bosdosh Golf Academy (PB Dye Golf Club): “It’s a very touchy subject. I tend to go with something like, ‘We are falling behind due to slow play, and we need to catch up to the group in front.’

“This way, I’m not singling out any one player in my group, and, when I use the term ‘we‘, it includes myself. You do have to finish the round with your playing partners, and you don’t want it to be too uncomfortable. Players tend to get the idea quickly.”

[Preeway]

4 minutes ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

There are lots of courses where I play that walking isn’t an option even for the healthiest of people. 1) because of the layout and 2 it would absolutely kill the pace of play of 4.5 hours which is closely monitored at most of them

Not to mention in the middle of summer in the mid Atlantic isn’t an optimal situation to walk.

so stop demonizing people who choose to ride carts. 

Not demonizing anyone. But like you said, it isn’t the cart it’s the rider. Very few people get how to use a cart effectively. 

[RickyBobby_PR]

5 minutes ago, Preeway said:

Not demonizing anyone. But like you said, it isn’t the cart it’s the rider. Very few people get how to use a cart effectively. 

You are calling people lazy for using a cart. So yes you are demonizing cart riders by saying over 90% of able bodied people are using carts. 

[Preeway]

2 minutes ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

You are calling people lazy for using a cart. So yes you are demonizing cart riders by saying over 90% of able bodied people are using carts. 

Man, you have to get past this. I get there are times when carts are necessary or required. Walking in the summer when it's 95 degrees and 90% humidity isn't going to happen for me either. I know you can play quickly in a cart. I can too. This gets back to original premise. Carts only help pace of play when the people using them make the effort to do so. I'm not demonizing you. 

[StrokerAce]

... just jumping in to say I love playing golf. 

slow

fast

just right

...there's no other place I'd rather be than on a golf course!

[knotthead17]

I walk and ride a bunch and I definitely play faster riding--both by myself and with a playing partner.

On Thursday I was walking and playing with two people that were sharing a cart. They were definitely faster than I was. If it wan't for the slower (not slow) group in front they would have been waiting on me all day.

Friday I walked with a friend and we were paired up with another twosome who were sharing a cart. It was cart path only and they were still always way ahead of us.

Yesterday I rode with a friend and there were two walkers joining us and we were always a good bit ahead and waiting on them.

Solo carts would be cool, I don't know how much more per round they would charge but all of the courses here in Denver are cracking down and not allowing single rider carts any longer anyway. I've always liked the singe electric bikes that carry clubs or the motorized skateboard like things with the clubs on the front. I know not everyone could safely ride those so why not some sort of scaled back single rider cart? 

[BKervin]

9 minutes ago, knotthead17 said:

I walk and ride a bunch and I definitely play faster riding--both by myself and with a playing partner.

On Thursday I was walking and playing with two people that were sharing a cart. They were definitely faster than I was. If it wan't for the slower (not slow) group in front they would have been waiting on me all day.

Friday I walked with a friend and we were paired up with another twosome who were sharing a cart. It was cart path only and they were still always way ahead of us.

Yesterday I rode with a friend and there were two walkers joining us and we were always a good bit ahead and waiting on them.

Solo carts would be cool, I don't know how much more per round they would charge but all of the courses here in Denver are cracking down and not allowing single rider carts any longer anyway. I've always liked the singe electric bikes that carry clubs or the motorized skateboard like things with the clubs on the front. I know not everyone could safely ride those so why not some sort of scaled back single rider cart? 

Caledonia and True Blue golf courses have these "bike carts" for individual use.  They are pretty cool.  Didn't try one personally 

[knotthead17]

52 minutes ago, BKervin said:

Caledonia and True Blue golf courses have these "bike carts" for individual use.  They are pretty cool.  Didn't try one personally 

That looks so fun! I'd love it although I know not everyone would / could ride one

[Kenny B]

Apparently it's the ranger!!  Maybe we should get some insight from @Rickp and @tony@CIC ...  

https://www.golfdigest.com/story/fantastic-golf-fight-ends-with-humiliating-failed-kick-and-an-all-time-question-video

 

[Caddie1966]

I will be 70 next month.  I walk 3-4 times a week on a hilly course for North Texas. But I am very healthy and thank God I am.  I even walk in 100 degree heat but drink 6-10 bottles of water per round in the heat.  I also walk in the shade when it’s hot. My weekend group is all walkers and we are usually pushing the group in front of us.  We playin 4 hours or less.  We don’t have huge distances from green to the next tee so there isn’t a lot of time spent getting between holes.
 

I ride only when forced to at my club because I’m in a tournament.  I ride when I go on vacation or play away from my home course as I don’t generally bring my cart with me. If caddies are available, I will walk when I am away from my home course.
 

My observation on slow play is people are simply not ready to play and lack self awareness.  Many don’t follow their shots and end up searching for too many balls that should be found if they would simply watch the shot till the end of its roll.  

[BillybobT]

I have had the unfortunate experience to play with relatives that really suck and don't care about anything. They think that the fact that they paid their green fees and paid for a cart give them carte blanche to do whatever they want on th course. To this day, I'd love to kick his f****** ignorant ass.. The course we were playing was NOT conducive to walking. I love pushing my cart, even into my late 60's. 

I remember playing 18 holes in under 2 1/2 hours when I was stationed in Jacksonville. I can't wait to go back.

[tony@CIC]

19 hours ago, Kenny B said:

Apparently it's the ranger!!  Maybe we should get some insight from @Rickp and @tony@CIC ...  

https://www.golfdigest.com/story/fantastic-golf-fight-ends-with-humiliating-failed-kick-and-an-all-time-question-video

 

Don't mess with us retired guys 

[golferguy2727]

When I lived in Ireland, I was routinely paired up with golfers on the senior end of the scale. And they left me in the dust more often than not in terms of pace of play. I learned to play as fast as they but returning to my native Canada was a serious wake up call interns of how bad pace of play had become. For example, I’m not sure I ever played an 18 hole round of golf in over four hours. My current club has a 4:15 standard and local munis can easily get to 5:15.

For me some of the slowest golfers are some the lowest scoring players I know. But I’m not sure if slow pace leads to better scores (or vice versa). For me, faster is usually a better scoring or ball striking day.

[StrokerAce]

this is a fantastic interview with the PGA tour rules official responsible for pace of play.

goes into great detail and once you understand everything going on it's a larger issue than just one player; seems to be a systemic problem.

https://www.golfdigest.com/story/the-simple-answer-to-the-pga-tour-s-slow-play-problem--a-first-h

[RickyBobby_PR]

Imo pace of play on tour is irrelevant from a viewing perspective. There is an allotted broadcast time, there are paid advertisements. Reducing pace of play affects broadcast time which affects the number of commercials that can be aired reducing the money coming in.

From a tv perspective it’s going to end at 6pm or whatever the allotted time is regardless if there’s a slow group or slow player. 

[knotthead17]

Here's an idea. What if everyone truly played ready golf throughout the round? If you and your playing partners are spread out do we really need hit one at a time? Why can't we hit at once? What are the odds our balls will touch on the green, and who cares if the do.

I will start my pre shot while someone else is up to hit only to have them back off because they think I'm going to hit. I'm a good distance away and just preparing so we can all play quickly. Why can't I line up my putt while someone else is putting? I'm talking about times where you obviously aren't interfering with each other. We aren't pro's playing for millions so why do we act like it?

I wonder just how much we could speed up the game by relaxing with certain etiquette that likely doesn't have any meaningful impact.

Relax about honors off the tee box
Don't be afraid to hit at the same time as someone
Feel free to line up putts while someone else is putting
Don't walk unnecessarily long distances around the green to avoid stepping in someone line

Even if the rules are more relaxed there will still be stigma, so maybe the answer is that these are the new rules! Just thinking out loud

[gophergutz]

On 5/11/2023 at 9:06 PM, knotthead17 said:

Here's an idea. What if everyone truly played ready golf throughout the round? If you and your playing partners are spread out do we really need hit one at a time? Why can't we hit at once? What are the odds our balls will touch on the green, and who cares if the do.

I will start my pre shot while someone else is up to hit only to have them back off because they think I'm going to hit. I'm a good distance away and just preparing so we can all play quickly. Why can't I line up my putt while someone else is putting? I'm talking about times where you obviously aren't interfering with each other. We aren't pro's playing for millions so why do we act like it?

I wonder just how much we could speed up the game by relaxing with certain etiquette that likely doesn't have any meaningful impact.

Relax about honors off the tee box
Don't be afraid to hit at the same time as someone
Feel free to line up putts while someone else is putting
Don't walk unnecessarily long distances around the green to avoid stepping in someone line

Even if the rules are more relaxed there will still be stigma, so maybe the answer is that these are the new rules! Just thinking out loud

One of the ironies in (golfing) life is more or less everybody wants to play ready golf,,,,,, but few actually do. LOL

In general, nothing wrong with what you say EXCEPT hitting at the same time.

For better or worse golf is an individual sport where, just as in tennis, one needs to really concentrate on what one is doing. Golf is not a "read and react"/athletic sport like most.

That's why the very first rule in golf tells us we're expected to show consideration to others. So much for jangling your keys in another player's backswing.

Hitting at the same time likely wouldn't be appreciated by the majority of players. e.g. if traffic is going by right next to the tee, hitting is seldom a problem. If however, a car on that same road blasts his horn in your backswing, you'll likely be cussing him for the next 20 minutes, or next 20 days in some cases. LMAO

 

 

 

[RickyBobby_PR]

On 5/11/2023 at 9:06 PM, knotthead17 said:

Here's an idea. What if everyone truly played ready golf throughout the round? If you and your playing partners are spread out do we really need hit one at a time? Why can't we hit at once? What are the odds our balls will touch on the green, and who cares if the do.

I will start my pre shot while someone else is up to hit only to have them back off because they think I'm going to hit. I'm a good distance away and just preparing so we can all play quickly. Why can't I line up my putt while someone else is putting? I'm talking about times where you obviously aren't interfering with each other. We aren't pro's playing for millions so why do we act like it?

I wonder just how much we could speed up the game by relaxing with certain etiquette that likely doesn't have any meaningful impact.

Relax about honors off the tee box
Don't be afraid to hit at the same time as someone
Feel free to line up putts while someone else is putting
Don't walk unnecessarily long distances around the green to avoid stepping in someone line

Even if the rules are more relaxed there will still be stigma, so maybe the answer is that these are the new rules! Just thinking out loud

It’s called respect for the other people in the group. I can’t deal with constant noise but the the outburst or some sudden noise is a distraction. Just like movement from seeing another golfer getting ready to hit or doing their preshot routine.

let’s save even more and everyone hit their tee shots at the same time