The search for driver consistency

[Indy_Oz]

On 11/8/2023 at 10:46 PM, Ben Joest said:

Latest Range session with the Paradym. Alternated the Kai Li with the Ventus about half way through. Still fully acclimating, but the feel of the TD head with the Ventus shaft has real potential. 

 

an improvement of 6 yards of carry and 10 yards of total distance over the previous session. For the purposes of this thread, my goals are shifting to a tighter dispersion and averaging 260 carry. Both are attainable, so the work continues…

Looks like you've made good progress and the numbers for the TD look good. Interesting thread, thanks for sharing the journey.

I returned to golf last year after a 20 year hiatus and I'm on a budget-restricted equipment journey, having  replaced everything since last summer. lol. Driver consistency is hurting my game, so your findings are useful. I was fitted into a Paradym TD this spring at a free Callaway fitting session (took the opportunity as it was free and would help inform future decisions). I loved the smaller head profile and hit it much better than the stock Paradym. I ended up (regrettably) following advice last year and buying a Rogue ST Max D and just couldn't get on with it (a coach had said it was the most forgiving driver, but that's not what I found). I picked up a ST Max LS head to try and like that much more. Oddly more forgiving and consistent for me, and nicer at address. Better, but not quite there yet. Might end up trying a TD head next year. I wanted to love the Ping drivers (tried G425 Max and G430 Max) but the bigger head just doesn't do anything for me and just feels odd. Maybe the LST version would work for me. I also quite like the look of the Titleist TSR3 at address. Haven't hit one yet though.

I definitely want to try the Paradym TD with a shorter driver shaft to see how that works out. The smaller head profile and shorter shaft should make it feel more like hitting one of the mini drivers. Ha ha.

Anyway, enough of me waffling on. Keep up the good work!

[GolfSpy_BEN]

From the range:

I did a combine on the MLM2Pro, to get a feel for any differences between the 2 Rapsodo devices and also a check up on the status of my game. The results:

My misgiving regarding the Paradym TD is that I wasted the better part of a golf season on other crap drivers before trying and falling in love with this beast. 
 

Some of the data from the range session prior to the combine:

 

I was centering the ball fairly well today

Dispersion was solid.

Shape was on-point.

And the numbers overall were excellent

There is a different Ventus shaft on its way here from Lago Vista, courtesy of @Josh Parker(who is going to give the Red a spin) while I try out his black. Once it arrives, it’ll be back to the range and possibly a round toward the end of the week. The work continues, but I am encouraged by the progress we’ve made since this thread sprang forth. 

[GolfSpy_BEN]

21 minutes ago, Indy_Oz said:

Looks like you've made good progress and the numbers for the TD look good. Interesting thread, thanks for sharing the journey.

I returned to golf last year after a 20 year hiatus and I'm on a budget-restricted equipment journey, having  replaced everything since last summer. lol. Driver consistency is hurting my game, so your findings are useful. I was fitted into a Paradym TD this spring at a free Callaway fitting session (took the opportunity as it was free and would help inform future decisions). I loved the smaller head profile and hit it much better than the stock Paradym. I ended up (regrettably) following advice last year and buying a Rogue ST Max D and just couldn't get on with it (a coach had said it was the most forgiving driver, but that's not what I found). I picked up a ST Max LS head to try and like that much more. Oddly more forgiving and consistent for me, and nicer at address. Better, but not quite there yet. Might end up trying a TD head next year. I wanted to love the Ping drivers (tried G425 Max and G430 Max) but the bigger head just doesn't do anything for me and just feels odd. Maybe the LST version would work for me. I also quite like the look of the Titleist TSR3 at address. Haven't hit one yet though.

I definitely want to try the Paradym TD with a shorter driver shaft to see how that works out. The smaller head profile and shorter shaft should make it feel more like hitting one of the mini drivers. Ha ha.

Anyway, enough of me waffling on. Keep up the good work!

Thanks for the kind words. It has been a journey, to say the least.

Also, I make no assumptions regarding your current driver status, (or budget for that matter) but I did see this from Callaway Pre-Owned today: 

Might be a good time to leap!

[Josh Parker]

49 minutes ago, Ben Joest said:

From the range:

I did a combine on the MLM2Pro, to get a feel for any differences between the 2 Rapsodo devices and also a check up on the status of my game. The results:

My misgiving regarding the Paradym TD is that I wasted the better part of a golf season on other crap drivers before trying and falling in love with this beast. 
 

Some of the data from the range session prior to the combine:

Rapsodo_MLM2PRO_Ben_Joest_14110146.mov 21.2 MB · 0 downloads  

I was centering the ball fairly well today

Dispersion was solid.

Shape was on-point.

And the numbers overall were excellent

There is a different Ventus shaft on its way here from Lago Vista, courtesy of @Josh Parker(who is going to give the Red a spin) while I try out his black. Once it arrives, it’ll be back to the range and possibly a round toward the end of the week. The work continues, but I am encouraged by the progress we’ve made since this thread sprang forth. 

Ready to try out the red. 

[GolfSpy_BEN]

Had a range session with this today:

TL:DR: Really liked the shaft. It came with a Jumbo Max XS grip on it, so I left it be for this session. For those keeping score at home, I have now tried the Jumbo Max in three different sizes. The only thing each grip had in common was that I didn’t like them, at all. So it got cut off as soon as o got home and replaced with this:

I haven’t tried the sonar+ before, but they have been highly recommended to me by multiple folks, so we are going to see what’s up.

This was a pretty good drive, despite the grip

 

The work continues…

 

[GolfSpy_BEN]

All I can figure is the Sonar + grip made me too powerful for the Ventus Black 6X shaft to withstand because:

The damn thing cracked at impact during a swing this afternoon while I was playing a SIM round for the VCT. I’ve seen a handful of graphite shafts crack over the years, but it is usually down by the head. I’ve never seen one crack 6” below the grip in mid-swing. Beyond the obvious shame of it all, this really blows, as I was really digging this shaft. Sigh…

[GolfSpy_APH]

9 hours ago, Ben Joest said:

All I can figure is the Sonar + grip made me too powerful for the Ventus Black 6X shaft to withstand because:

The damn thing cracked at impact during a swing this afternoon while I was playing a SIM round for the VCT. I’ve seen a handful of graphite shafts crack over the years, but it is usually down by the head. I’ve never seen one crack 6” below the grip in mid-swing. Beyond the obvious shame of it all, this really blows, as I was really digging this shaft. Sigh…

.... can't believe this has happened. Really hoping that Fuji has some sort of warranty or something for you that it can be replaced or even a credit towards a new shaft because that is devastating. 

[cnosil]

11 hours ago, Ben Joest said:

All I can figure is the Sonar + grip made me too powerful for the Ventus Black 6X shaft to withstand because:

The damn thing cracked at impact during a swing this afternoon while I was playing a SIM round for the VCT. I’ve seen a handful of graphite shafts crack over the years, but it is usually down by the head. I’ve never seen one crack 6” below the grip in mid-swing. Beyond the obvious shame of it all, this really blows, as I was really digging this shaft. Sigh…

Definitely seems odd.  

[ViGarza007]

From my club fitter, premium driver heads are maxed out- they are to the limit allowed.  So I am hoping that trying out the different heads isn’t about you getting more/less distance.   Shafts are a completely different story and will give you shorter/long inconsistency and wider/tighter dispersion.   To over simplify, a wippie and light shaft can give you 300 yards (impressive) curving/missing to both sides very inconsistently (not impressive). A very stiff and extra heavy can give you very short straight 250 yd drives more consistently.  So the key- with a club fitter- is to find the right mix of stiffness and weight AND flex point (low, mid, high) on a shaft that will maximize your distance but without creating more dispersion (all shaft, not a driver head thing).  So the process would be to bring dispersion in tighter and then go to try to scale distance by moving the levers until the dispersion starts getting to wide. 
 

…that truly fitted shaft you can put on ANY driver head and it will give you more consistency (dispersion and distance).  You get stronger/weaker or faster/slower club head speed? Get refitted on the proper shaft (weight, stiffness, flex point).   
 

on shot shape…that’s swing mechanics (if you already controlled for fitted shaft). Draw/Fade/slice/hooks, low, high…all swing path to face angle patterns.  Want consistent shot shape? Then need a consistent hitting process. Then like all great golfers…get better and better with the human body and mind repeating THAT process.  
 

does this help at all? Or you already knew that but…? Or you have different beliefs and experiences that tell you this above is not true? Does this change the information you have in your mind or do I need to change mine? 

[cksurfdude]

On 11/18/2023 at 10:07 AM, ViGarza007 said:

... find the right mix of stiffness and weight AND flex point (low, mid, high) on a shaft that will maximize your distance but without creating more dispersion ...

You make a lot of good points, but - yes "finding the right mix" .. for him .. *is exactly* what Ben has been working on...

[GolfSpy_BEN]

Got out today to test out the Graphite Design AD XC 7X shaft I picked up from CPO during the Black Friday salesapalooza. Initial thoughts are positive. It lasted through a range session this afternoon and the Range SIM league this evening without breaking, so it already has a leg up on Fujikura and their Ventus model

It is heavier than the 5’s and 6’s I’ve been swinging lately, but it feels stable. I swing fairly aggressively and this weight and flex handles that aggression well. Still having issues with exporting swings videos from Rapsodo so here is a couple screen shots of distance and shape

The work continues…

[Donn lost in San Diego]

Hi y'all.  I swing A flex for 1w and 3w and then can swing reg on shorter clubs.  I recently got a freebie, a 2004 vintage Callaway Big Ber 454 ti driver on the red reg flex 65 gram shaft.  This head is hot, lot of distance even on a less than optimal shaft for me.  Given that heads are at max legal limits for a while now, this particular head seems very max.  I am tinkering with the idea of putting a new shaft, like Evenflo riptide 50 gr A flex, or similar.  Any opinions, or should I save my $ and stick with sampling around newer drivers?

[cnosil]

5 minutes ago, Donn lost in San Diego said:

Hi y'all.  I swing A flex for 1w and 3w and then can swing reg on shorter clubs.  I recently got a freebie, a 2004 vintage Callaway Big Ber 454 ti driver on the red reg flex 65 gram shaft.  This head is hot, lot of distance even on a less than optimal shaft for me.  Given that heads are at max legal limits for a while now, this particular head seems very max.  I am tinkering with the idea of putting a new shaft, like Evenflo riptide 50 gr A flex, or similar.  Any opinions, or should I save my $ and stick with sampling around newer drivers?

I’ll say you swing what is labeled by the shaft manufacturer.  Callaway was famous for overrating shafts in their clubs to appease the male ego. flex and weight designation isn’t standard so unless actually measured, you just won’t know.   
 

  It really comes down to how well the shaft/head combo works for you.  From my experience, Unless you hit the center if the face every time, newer heads will tend to be better than a 2004 head.  To validate, you need to hit them side by side and see how they compare. 

[chisag]

45 minutes ago, cnosil said:

I’ll say you swing what is labeled by the shaft manufacturer.  Callaway was famous for overrating shafts in their clubs to appease the male ego. flex and weight designation isn’t standard so unless actually measured, you just won’t know.  

 

... Yup, Ely Callaway really made shaft flex and loft designations almost irrelevant. Not only did he put a S flex label on a R flex shaft he also added about 2* of loft to what was listed on the club. So now instead of male ego golfers playing a stiff flex 9* head like it was labeled they were actually playing a regular flex 11* head and hitting much better tee shots. It also improved their fairway wood play because again, instead of a stiff flex and 15* 3 wood they were actually playing a regular flex 17* "3" wood. Golf stores couldn't keep them in stock and there was a waiting list to get one! 

[GolfSpy_BEN]

Day 2 with the Graphite Design AD-XC 7x shaft. 

This is a firmer feel than I’m used to and I’m still undecided as to whether I like it. By and large the results in the SIM rounds I played at the range were positive, but one interesting thing to note is despite the x-stiff shaft, it’s miss is a duck hook rather than a banana slice I would expect from a bad swing. 

I also took some swings alternating between the Kai Li 6s and the GD 7x. The Kai Li has more “feel” but the GD was more accurate. The work continues…

[GolfSpy_BEN]

Played 45 holes of SIM Golf at the Top Tracer Range near the house today. I continue to be impressed by the Paradym TD head and I am coming around to the Graphite Design Tour AD - XC 7x shaft. I’ve been working on club path and face control with my driver swing and it has paid dividends as I have managed to minimize the big miss to the right that has plagued me sporadically over the years.

My drives today were typically straight and averaged out around 260. I had a handful that were pushing 300, so all in all not a bad day at all. Whenever Rapsodo gets their sh*t together, I will upload some swing videos.

During my trips to the Golf Ranch since I grabbed the Paradym TD, towards the end of each session I will finish my buckets off with Long Drives, as a way of gauging my max distance for any given session, here are the longest drives from each:

I leave you with this evergreen sentiment, as always my friends, the work continues…

[Josh Parker]

45 holes!  Keep up the good work.  Making progress!  

[BigBoiGolf]

On 10/30/2023 at 1:46 PM, chisag said:

 

... I am a big fan of a shorter driver shaft length for the reason you describe. Better contact, straighter drives and for most longer average drives. For more than a few, even their longest drives. It is a rare player that can hit a longer shaft with equal consistency as a shorter length. Obviously loft plays a part but this is the reason most everyone hits a wedge better than a 5 iron. But if everyone had the same shaft and head but one was 45" and the other 46" They would be amazed at the contact pattern on the face and how much better it is at 45" compared to 46". 

I always get a good kick looking at old product spec sheets. Biggest issue I see when helping other players out is that they've taken on the added difficulty in swinging a 46" driver just for that 1/100 chance to smacking the center. Sadly most players are none the wiser as to why it's critical to have a well fitted golf club that's probably beyond the scope of a simple fitting.

Wait until you get to the fun part of lie angles not needing to step 0.5 degrees per half inch, or 3/8" steppings, etc.

[GolfSpy_BEN]

Got to the range today and hit a bunch of balls with the goal of settling on a shaft for the Paradym TD. I started with the Kai Li 6S, progressed  into the red Ventus 5S, and finished with the GD Tour AD XC 7X. And (for now) the winner is:

Of the 3, the GD had the best dispersion and the ball speed was consistently in the high 150’s - low 160’s

The work continues… 

[Josh Parker]

13 minutes ago, GolfSpy_BEN said:

Got to the range today and hit a bunch of balls with the goal of settling on a shaft for the Paradym TD. I started with the Kai Li 6S, progressed  into the red Ventus 5S, and finished with the GD Tour AD XC 7X. And (for now) the winner is:

Of the 3, the GD had the best dispersion and the ball speed was consistently in the high 150’s - low 160’s

The work continues… 

Alot of different weights and profiles. 

[KC Golf]

On 12/21/2023 at 8:26 PM, GolfSpy_BEN said:

Got to the range today and hit a bunch of balls with the goal of settling on a shaft for the Paradym TD. I started with the Kai Li 6S, progressed  into the red Ventus 5S, and finished with the GD Tour AD XC 7X. And (for now) the winner is:

Of the 3, the GD had the best dispersion and the ball speed was consistently in the high 150’s - low 160’s

The work continues… 

That shaft looks pretty sweet!  Did you try the VF?

[GolfSpy_BEN]

40 minutes ago, KC Golf said:

That shaft looks pretty sweet!  Did you try the VF?

Not yet. But I would like to.

[Josh Parker]

On 12/21/2023 at 9:26 PM, GolfSpy_BEN said:

Got to the range today and hit a bunch of balls with the goal of settling on a shaft for the Paradym TD. I started with the Kai Li 6S, progressed  into the red Ventus 5S, and finished with the GD Tour AD XC 7X. And (for now) the winner is:

Of the 3, the GD had the best dispersion and the ball speed was consistently in the high 150’s - low 160’s

The work continues… 

Has this shaft still remained in the bag?  

I am liking the ventus blue so far and ready for the Mevo+ to show up so I can compare between the HZDRS yellow and the ventus

[GolfSpy_BEN]

45 minutes ago, Josh Parker said:

Has this shaft still remained in the bag?  

I am liking the ventus blue so far and ready for the Mevo+ to show up so I can compare between the HZDRS yellow and the ventus

Yes. With the caveat that I have gotten to play exactly one round since adding it. So the jury is still out whether it will stay there.

[Josh Parker]

2 minutes ago, GolfSpy_BEN said:

Yes. With the caveat that I have gotten to play exactly one round since adding it. So the jury is still out whether it will stay there.

I didn't know if you had been using it in your sim league. 

[GolfSpy_BEN]

Just now, Josh Parker said:

I didn't know if you had been using it in your sim league. 

With the top tracer league, we wrapped up the first session at the beginning of December and session 2 doesn’t start until the end of the month. 
For the sim rounds played on the Rapsodo at home, I don’t use anything longer than a 3 hybrid due to low overhead clearance 

[Josh Parker]

1 minute ago, GolfSpy_BEN said:

With the top tracer league, we wrapped up the first session at the beginning of December and session 2 doesn’t start until the end of the month. 
For the sim rounds played on the Rapsodo at home, I don’t use anything longer than a 3 hybrid due to low overhead clearance 

Got ya.