Why does everyone dog on the higher handicaps?

[Liberty Ball Markers]

It seems like it wasn't long ago we had some serious hurt feelings after the kirkland balls were called out for being tested by people, not robots...

 

But now we're upset that Crossfield has no need for less than the best (although they are likely the ones watching his videos thinking they'll learn something).

 

We are willing though, to praise crossfield for being kind enough to accurately miss shots to replicate the mistakes of the average golfer.

 

I'm a little confused... but I do know that I don't want swing advise from someone who has never seen my swing.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using MyGolfSpy

[Mr_Theoo]

Because nobody's is perfect every time, therefore high cappers aren't either.

I didn't say perfect, I said repeatable. Just because it's a 30 yard slice doesn't mean it isn't repeatable. That's why fittings help higher handicaps more than a lower cap.

[Zeasy]

I didn't say perfect, I said repeatable. Just because it's a 30 yard slice doesn't mean it isn't repeatable. That's why fittings help higher handicaps more than a lower cap.

What?

[cnosil]

Why do so many people think high handicappers swings aren't repeatable?

It isnt that they aren't repeatable but what do you gain from it and how many can hit the ball on the face in varying spots. I am a low handicapper and can do that consistently

[Zeasy]

The issue for me is that Mark discounts mid cappers' ability to review clubs and thinks that only a qualified professional's opinion is of any value. Unlike MGS which uses actual math and a broad spectrum of golfers to review clubs in the most wanted tests, Mark is one guy and his reviews have the value and accuracy of anyone else using a launch monitor to grab web traffic from hot key words.

[Mr_Theoo]

It isnt that they aren't repeatable but what do you gain from it and how many can hit the ball on the face in varying spots. I am a low handicapper and can do that consistently

With drivers you would see how well a miss hit performs. Which is what most OEMs are saying gets better every year.

[Bags]

I feel correction is coming in golf industry. Market is saturated with new clubs every 2 months.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using MyGolfSpy

[JBones]

The issue for me is that Mark discounts mid cappers' ability to review clubs and thinks that only a qualified professional's opinion is of any value. Unlike MGS which uses actual math and a broad spectrum of golfers to review clubs in the most wanted tests, Mark is one guy and his reviews have the value and accuracy of anyone else using a launch monitor to grab web traffic from hot key words.

 

THIS.

[Zeasy]

I also question the technology that allows him to have a simulated shot tracer on a 3D map. Is that tech legit?

[Mr_Theoo]

I also question the technology that allows him to have a simulated shot tracer on a 3D map. Is that tech legit?

There is an iPhone app that can do it but I've yet to use it. So maybe it's accurate but I doubt it

[Zeasy]

There is an iPhone app that can do it but I've yet to use it. So maybe it's accurate but I doubt it

 

I'm not talking about shot tracer. I'm talking about the 3D satellite maps he's using that show ball flight around the course.

[Jmikecpa]

I quite enjoy the mid capper reviews that Rob Potter does on Rick Shiels channel.  I think you get good information from both perspectives.

[Mr_Theoo]

I'm not talking about shot tracer. I'm talking about the 3D satellite maps he's using that show ball flight around the course.

Oh I doubt that's real. I can't watch those course vlogs. Too boring for me

[Jmikecpa]

I also think it goes another way as well.  Would anyone on here really care what I thought of the Ping G series irons?  Based on my index it is assumed that I can hit them, but my review would be full of these are great but just not for me.  I am a fan of testing equipment on the target audience for the equipment. 

[Jonnythec]

I personally wouldn't put my name in to test blades. I accept they ain't for me. Since it's winter I havnt put my name in for anything cause I can't accurately test anything indoors I feel.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone while sitting at the 19th hole.

[4Left]

I think the most important thing for this level of golfer to know is how the club is going to help mitigate poor strikes and off centre contact.

 

Depending on a few things, I am hoping for a new fitted big dog in the bag in the next few months (ahem epic vs m1) And the one I will be taking home is not the one I smoke 20 yds above avg once or twice but the one that gives me the highest low point.

 

I don't really care what a club does for a golfer who is already shooting low but how it helps the rest of us looking to get there. So if that's Mark hitting bad shots on purpose or a guy like me doing his thang, either way that is the most important part of a relevant driver review.

 

 

 

Sent from my SM-G930W8 using MyGolfSpy mobile app

[Jonnythec]

All the scratch guys I play with are using 8-10 year old blades and rarely have anything new In their bag. It's the guys like me who are mid to high caps that are always buying and experimenting with new clubs. Why not have them test club for the people who they are marketing to.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone while sitting at the 19th hole.

[Kenny B]

I hate the idea of categorizing people in Handicap ranges for testing.  Not all mid- to high handicaps are equal.  I see it every day on my course.  Yes, many can't hit the center of the club face consistently, but some can.  Many don't hit 250 yard drives, but some can.  Many don't hit a fairway more than once or twice a round, but others can hit every fairway.  Just because someone is a mid- to high handicap doesn't mean they can't contribute to a test of clubs meant for them.  

 

And all I'm saying is that if Crossfield wants to know how a club performs on off center hits he can do that too, no need to bring in a 15 handicap to do it.

 

BTW, I completely disagree that Crossfield or anyone else can duplicate mishits that are common to a mid- to high handicap.  He might be able to do it about the same number of times that a mid- to high handicap can absolutely flush a shot.  There are so many different swings out there, and he can't swing like all of them do.  I would be willing to bet that a low toe shot for him will react completely different than a low toe shot by me.

[alfriday101]

The problem with most testing on Youtube is that it's done by people with high swing speeds.  I have a driver swing speed of around 95 mph.  

 

Clubs preform differently at different swing speeds.  Just look at the MGS results from last year, best driver for your swing speed:  https://www.mygolfspy.com/2016-most-wanted-driver-by-swing-speed/

 

I think it would be beneficial for Crossfield to bring in players with slower swing speeds.

[alfriday101]

A quick addendum.

 

In the thread on How Far Does the Average Guy Hit, the chart shows that there is a correlation between distance and handicap.  Is this because of off center hits or swing speed, or both?  I don't know.  But seeing how a club performs for a slower swing speed player would be helpful. 

[Mr_Theoo]

The problem with most testing on Youtube is that it's done by people with high swing speeds. I have a driver swing speed of around 95 mph.

 

Clubs preform differently at different swing speeds. Just look at the MGS results from last year, best driver for your swing speed: https://www.mygolfspy.com/2016-most-wanted-driver-by-swing-speed/

 

I think it would be beneficial for Crossfield to bring in players with slower swing speeds.

Check out Rick shields mid handicap tester rob potter. He swings much slower than Rick does. Not sure on an exact number but he barely carries a 6i 150ish

[ole gray]

Heck back a few years ago I was a 15 handicap and shot 73 on Saturday in my club championship. Handicaps can be deceiving

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using MyGolfSpy

[cnosil]

And as a 6 I have shot 98

[Kenny B]

Heck back a few years ago I was a 15 handicap and shot 73 on Saturday in my club championship. Handicaps can be deceiving

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using MyGolfSpy

My point exactly!

[numberonecoog]

I dont think High handicaps should be ignored. If we want to talk about all this technology clubs hve built into them to make the game easier, People who struggle and can benefit from it being easier should be listened to

[Sschaffer24]

I think many things about this tweet/conversation.

 

While it is probably taken out of context, the tweet does lend itself to a larger discussion.

 

That discussion essentially boils down to the differences between a low/mid/high handicap and what the differences in opinion that each of those guys can come to. Here, though, is where we lose perspective. Let's use Barbajo and Bones as examples.

 

Both guys are a single digit index. Both would classify as good golfers to the guys on the forum. And both would qualify for the "low" index field that we have referenced. Both are different, however, in the way they play their respective games. Bones bombs the ball. Barbajo plays a game more similar to the rest of the pack here. But they both are going to fall into the same bracket of tester.

 

Here is the point. Irrelevant of handicap we all play this sport differently. Some are distance players, some feel, some excel with their mid irons, short game, putter, etc. This game varies so much from guy to guy that yes, someone who is a lower handicap may shoot lower scores, but that doesn't mean that someone with a higher handicap can't hit it further. Or have a better short game. Or anything for that matter.

 

I think we all are missing the boat by just lumping golfers into three different categories. We all excel at certain things and are weak at others. The perspective that we all have is our own, and when Mark does his videos he is bringing his perspective to the game. At the end of the day the reason we watch his videos is for HIS opinion on the club. I don't think that at any point in his videos he expresses the idea that something he finds appealing should be what you own. His data should be taken subjectively, and analyzed in relationship to what his typical performance is like.

 

A high handicapper would bring nothing better or worse to the table. Just a separate set of variables. The benefit Mark does have over the traditional guys is that his numbers tend to be relatively neutral, so it's easy to establish a baseline and then compare. With that being said, it could easily be me on the other side of the camera giving my take and it would be just as valuable in the long run. Just in the context of MY own game.

 

Hopefully that makes sense. Haha.

[ole gray]

Excuse me,,,, I was a 16 handicap when I shot 73 in my Club Championship.  I am Bill Sandefur on the scoreboard card picture here.  It just goes to show a mid handicapper can have a good day in competition.   I have shot tons of rounds in the 70's over the years however my chipping and putting have always held me back from consistent golf.

 

[hckymeyer]

BTW, I completely disagree that Crossfield or anyone else can duplicate mishits that are common to a mid- to high handicap.  He might be able to do it about the same number of times that a mid- to high handicap can absolutely flush a shot.  There are so many different swings out there, and he can't swing like all of them do.  I would be willing to bet that a low toe shot for him will react completely different than a low toe shot by me.

But isn't that the point?  If one mid cap misses one way, and another misses another way etc.  What do you gain from that review?  The difference in strikes are due to the indian, not the arrow.

 

All the ball knows is how hard it was struck, what direction the club came from, what direction the club was facing and where on the face it hit.  Doesn't matter what the handicap of the person swinging it is.

 

I'm not saying mid & high cappers shouldn't test.  I'm saying what's the point of Crossfield bringing in a mid-cap guy for every review.  Why not just have the mid-cap guy start his own review channel and have at it?  Sounds like there is a demand for it in the market so maybe somebody here can start a new business?  Then we can all complain that he doesn't strike the ball well enough to do a review and why doesn't he bring in a scratch golfer to test too!

 

That's why I love the MGS tests so much.  They have a range of abilities and enough data that it is statically significant.

[StrokerAce]

I quite enjoy the mid capper reviews that Rob Potter does on Rick Shiels channel.  I think you get good information from both perspectives.

 

It took a while but I'm glad that someone finally brought it up.  

  

BEST thing about Shiels is having Rob Potter do some testing along side him.  As a matter of fact, he's got some videos of him and Potter playing on a course and you get to really see the difference between scratch (Shiels) and mid-cap (Potter).  

  

I enjoy Mark's videos and find them entertaining but he's similar to Breed on the Golf Channel.  I don't really care if Breed can hit it into the target on the simulator all the time.  He's got some good tips once in a while but there's a limit...

[hckymeyer]

A high handicapper would bring nothing better or worse to the table. Just a separate set of variables. The benefit Mark does have over the traditional guys is that his numbers tend to be relatively neutral, so it's easy to establish a baseline and then compare. With that being said, it could easily be me on the other side of the camera giving my take and it would be just as valuable in the long run. Just in the context of MY own game.

 

Hopefully that makes sense. Haha.

This!!

 

It's not about what the handicap of the guy testing it is.  It's about following that guy long enough that you can understand when something works better or worse for him.  

 

My game doesn't have much in common with Shiels or Crossfield, they are better golfers than I am.  But I've watched enough stuff to know that if something works significantly better for them I put it on my radar to test out myself.