2023 Rules Changes

[JeremyD]

Great conversation. Thank you @DaveP043 for your insight. I play in a pretty lax Saturday group on occasion, and I can guarantee half of them don't know the rules, or make up what they believe they should be. 

[DaveP043]

1 hour ago, JeremyD said:

Great conversation. Thank you @DaveP043 for your insight. I play in a pretty lax Saturday group on occasion, and I can guarantee half of them don't know the rules, or make up what they believe they should be. 

I was just in Pinehurst last week, for the USGA Rules Workshop.  I hope you survived the power interruption without too much damage.  It was an inconvenience missing a day of instruction and the test, but I know it had to be much much worse for the tens of thousands of families whose lives were interrupted.

[JeremyD]

24 minutes ago, DaveP043 said:

I was just in Pinehurst last week, for the USGA Rules Workshop.  I hope you survived the power interruption without too much damage.  It was an inconvenience missing a day of instruction and the test, but I know it had to be much much worse for the tens of thousands of families whose lives were interrupted.

We did ok. Only lost a little food, and my wife enjoyed having 3 days off from work. From what I saw posted online, we were pretty lucky compared to other people who lost much more. 

[AzRoger]

3 hours ago, Mark In Land O Lakes said:

I'd say about 0%.  I play in a league of senior golfers; most in mid-late 60's, but many in 80's and even 90's.  You are always allowed to "clean & place", if needed.  You are allowed to improve your lie in the fairway, so for example you can move the ball to get it onto a tuff a grass.  You are allowed to move your ball if you are in danger of hitting a root or rock.  Basically, we want to enjoy the game and not get hurt. 

Nothing wrong if all are in agreement but scores shouldn't be posted in the handicap system if playing that way.

[JerryK]

Am I correct that there was a change of the rule concerning a permanent immovable obstruction affecting your stroke or stance when you are in a penalty area other than a bunker?

A rule which I believe many players don't know is if your ball is played from off the green and it hits another player or his or her equipment, you play the ball as it lies providing it was done accidentally - correct?

Finally, if you are on the green and you putt your ball and an outside agency affects its direction or speed you must replay the shot - I understand this no longer applies to leaves blowing and hitting a leaf - how do you differentiate between when you must replay your shot?  

[DaveP043]

3 hours ago, JerryK said:

Am I correct that there was a change of the rule concerning a permanent immovable obstruction affecting your stroke or stance when you are in a penalty area other than a bunker?

A rule which I believe many players don't know is if your ball is played from off the green and it hits another player or his or her equipment, you play the ball as it lies providing it was done accidentally - correct?

Finally, if you are on the green and you putt your ball and an outside agency affects its direction or speed you must replay the shot - I understand this no longer applies to leaves blowing and hitting a leaf - how do you differentiate between when you must replay your shot?  

No, the Rule regarding Abnormal Course Conditions (including Immoveable Obstructions) when your ball is in a Penalty Area is unchanged, there's no relief.  A Bunker is a separate Area of the course, it is not a Penalty Area, and you DO get relief from an ACC when your ball is in a Bunker, Rule 16.1

11.1 for a ball accidentally deflected remains mostly unchanged, and for a ball played from someplace other than the Putting Green, you do indeed plays it as it lies.  The only change is for a ball played from the Putting Green which hits the Player, the Player's club used to make the Stroke (usually his putter), or an animal which is also classified as a Loose impediment.  In those situations, there's no penalty, and the ball is played as it lies.  Under the previous Rules, it was supposed to be replaced, and the original stroke disregarded.  For the last one, I'm not sure where you got that.  If your ball played from the Putting Green hits a Loose Impediment (like a blowing leaf) you play it as it lies  You can read this in 11.1b(2)

 

Edited December 14, 2022 by DaveP043

[Mike P]

On 12/9/2022 at 9:31 AM, Jim Shaw said:

I have a question to the thousands of golfers on this site. 

what percent of the golf conversation, say, after your round in the clubhouse, involve rules ?....

99% of rules are easy to apply....The 1% rules discussions take place live on course in the moment.

 

I am taking a provisional....sorry, provisional not allowed for ball clearly in water. You want to play next stroke from here or thinking about a drop zone ball ?  If you play from here no drop out there allowed.

I am in the lateral and will drop...no,.your ball didn't cross there, you were further up,.or further back. 

 

I can't take a stance in bunker without interfering with your ball, what do you want to do...Mark yours or play first ?

 

Those are sorted.out.live, not later. Even in friendly matches which score is immaterial.

[Mark In Land O Lakes]

20 hours ago, AzRoger said:

Nothing wrong if all are in agreement but scores shouldn't be posted in the handicap system if playing that way.

I don't think that's really an issue with this group, as we don't use handicaps (we use a point system)!  But even so, why would it even matter?  Posting a score lower than perhaps you deserve would lower your handicap.  The only benefit of this is to perhaps increase your bragging rights!  It would put you at a disadvantage if you then played in a tournament where handicaps were used; so you'd be hurting yourself, not cheating others.

[Jim Shaw]

Although in theory that point makes sense Mark, most tournament I play in pair players with similar handicap levels. With the real competitive players it probably wouldn't affect their play however with, and this is just an example, if an 11 handicap is playing with a  "pretend" 15 handicap which is actually a 20 handicap it could impact the 11 handicaps enjoyment of their round. It is true that lower handicaps can have a "bad day" but there are signs that they are off just that round and it is acceptable. The handicap system, thought not perfect, is another reason this game is great, if any of your group plays in competitions that have some sort of prize they have to have an honest handicap. 

[AzRoger]

1 hour ago, Mark In Land O Lakes said:

I don't think that's really an issue with this group, as we don't use handicaps (we use a point system)!  But even so, why would it even matter?  Posting a score lower than perhaps you deserve would lower your handicap.  The only benefit of this is to perhaps increase your bragging rights!  It would put you at a disadvantage if you then played in a tournament where handicaps were used; so you'd be hurting yourself, not cheating others.

Because the USGA states that scores shouldn't be posted if the rules of golf aren't followed. Sec 2.1

[Mark In Land O Lakes]

1 minute ago, AzRoger said:

Because the USGA states that scores shouldn't be posted if the rules of golf aren't followed. Sec 2.1

So everyone who posts a score had a rules official following them around to make sure then didn't inadvertently violate the rules?

[AzRoger]

Just now, Mark In Land O Lakes said:

So everyone who posts a score had a rules official following them around to make sure then didn't inadvertently violate the rules?

It's more a matter of knowingly ignoring the rules which seems to be the case in your situation.

[RickyBobby_PR]

2 hours ago, Mark In Land O Lakes said:

I don't think that's really an issue with this group, as we don't use handicaps (we use a point system)!  But even so, why would it even matter?  Posting a score lower than perhaps you deserve would lower your handicap.  The only benefit of this is to perhaps increase your bragging rights!  It would put you at a disadvantage if you then played in a tournament where handicaps were used; so you'd be hurting yourself, not cheating others.

Because under the new handicap rules the system looks at scores for the day in the playing conditions classification which could impact the results of others handicaps based on that day

[RickyBobby_PR]

2 hours ago, Mark In Land O Lakes said:

I don't think that's really an issue with this group, as we don't use handicaps (we use a point system)!  But even so, why would it even matter?  Posting a score lower than perhaps you deserve would lower your handicap.  The only benefit of this is to perhaps increase your bragging rights!  It would put you at a disadvantage if you then played in a tournament where handicaps were used; so you'd be hurting yourself, not cheating others.

Because under the new handicap rules the system looks at scores for the day in the playing conditions classification which could impact the results of others handicaps based on that day

2 hours ago, Mark In Land O Lakes said:

I don't think that's really an issue with this group, as we don't use handicaps (we use a point system)!  But even so, why would it even matter?  Posting a score lower than perhaps you deserve would lower your handicap.  The only benefit of this is to perhaps increase your bragging rights!  It would put you at a disadvantage if you then played in a tournament where handicaps were used; so you'd be hurting yourself, not cheating others.

Because under the new handicap rules the system looks at scores for the day in the playing conditions classification which could impact the results of others handicaps based on that day

[DaveP043]

22 hours ago, Mark In Land O Lakes said:

So everyone who posts a score had a rules official following them around to make sure then didn't inadvertently violate the rules?

The Rules expect YOU to behave with integrity, without needing an official to follow you around.  Many players (I hope MOST players)) do just that, play within the rules as much as they can, with the knowledge that they have.  

On 12/12/2022 at 8:00 PM, cnosil said:

Interesting that they have banned the use of self standing putters to help the player determine line or setup.  I had heard that this was going to happen,  but didn't realize it was incorporated.   Wonder how that will affect the few companies that market this type of putter.

I just found a new Clarification apparently issued today, implementation of this change will be delayed for two years:

https://rules.usga.org/content/usga/home-page/rules-hub/clarifications-of-the-rules-of-golf.html

[Jim Shaw]

In my experience Dave, and I have been playing for 55 years and competitively for 51, been a member at 6 different clubs, there are usually only 1 or 2 players that dont play by the rules intentionally, but the members identify them quickly and call them out on it, as does the management, I may be nieve however I like to think, in the competitive world anyway, all the golfers play by the rules, do mistakes happen, sure, but not intentionally. 

[cksurfdude]

4 hours ago, DaveP043 said:

The Rules expect YOU to behave with integrity, without needing an official to follow you around.  Many players (I hope MOST players) do just that, play within the rules as much as they can, with the knowledge that they have.  

Yes! ..thank you for that

[Mark In Land O Lakes]

On 12/15/2022 at 10:55 AM, Jim Shaw said:

Although in theory that point makes sense Mark, most tournament I play in pair players with similar handicap levels. With the real competitive players it probably wouldn't affect their play however with, and this is just an example, if an 11 handicap is playing with a  "pretend" 15 handicap which is actually a 20 handicap it could impact the 11 handicaps enjoyment of their round. It is true that lower handicaps can have a "bad day" but there are signs that they are off just that round and it is acceptable. The handicap system, thought not perfect, is another reason this game is great, if any of your group plays in competitions that have some sort of prize they have to have an honest handicap. 

The guys I play with don't play in tournaments.  If they even keep a handicap (and I'd bet very few do), it probably would be mostly for their own edification.  If there are any guys in the league who are really serious about their handicap, they can play without taking advantage of any of the "local rules".  After all, it is an honor system!

[Mark In Land O Lakes]

5 hours ago, DaveP043 said:

The Rules expect YOU to behave with integrity, without needing an official to follow you around.  Many players (I hope MOST players)) do just that, play within the rules as much as they can, with the knowledge that they have.  

So there are times when players can't play within the rules?  Interesting!

[DaveP043]

2 minutes ago, Mark In Land O Lakes said:

So there are times when players can't play within the rules?  Interesting!

There are time when players choose not to play within the rules, you seem to be a case in point.  In reality, very few players know every rule, even the most experienced and best players.  I'd be a fool to say that players follow every rule all the time, I know that's not true.  I know the rules better than most, I've tested at the Expert level each time I've taken the USGA 100-question exam, and I'm sure there are times when I unknowingly do something wrong.  Most players try to follow the rules, and will not knowingly break them.  That's what Rule 1.2 requires of us:

"Acting with integrity – for example, by following the Rules, applying all penalties, and being honest in all aspects of play"

If you choose to behave otherwise, that's your choice.

[Mark In Land O Lakes]

40 minutes ago, DaveP043 said:

There are time when players choose not to play within the rules, you seem to be a case in point.  In reality, very few players know every rule, even the most experienced and best players.  I'd be a fool to say that players follow every rule all the time, I know that's not true.  I know the rules better than most, I've tested at the Expert level each time I've taken the USGA 100-question exam, and I'm sure there are times when I unknowingly do something wrong.  Most players try to follow the rules, and will not knowingly break them.  That's what Rule 1.2 requires of us:

"Acting with integrity – for example, by following the Rules, applying all penalties, and being honest in all aspects of play"

If you choose to behave otherwise, that's your choice.

That's all well and good, but it didn't address the comment I made.  Your original post contained the phrase "play within the rules as much as they can".  To me, that implies there are times when they can't play within the rules (not a choice)?  That's what I termed interesting. 

[DaveP043]

8 minutes ago, Mark In Land O Lakes said:

That's all well and good, but it didn't address the comment I made.  Your original post contained the phrase "play within the rules as much as they can".  To me, that implies there are times when they can't play within the rules (not a choice)?  That's what I termed interesting. 

I'm saying that most golfers play within the rules to be best of their knowledge and abilities.  If they break a Rule, its unintentional.  

[Jim Shaw]

Dave is absolutely correct, when I go out for 9 holes in the evening for a casual round with my wife or granddaughter, I might even play 2 balls off the tee, take an errant shot and move it to the fairway etc. Hit a couple of putts on the same line, however if there is any prize of any sort on the line with other golfers where a rules violation may impact the outcome, the rules have to be followed 

[Majmike]

The ruling bodies still haven't gone far enough.  You should get a drop from a divot in fairway. You can tamp down spike marks and repair green surface.  If you hit a great fairway shot and ball lands in a huge divot left by a jerk, you get zero relief.   This continues to frustrate players at all levels of competition.