Are we getting fit wrong? Crossfield thinks its a good possibility.

[caryncgolfer]

On 12/27/2022 at 1:51 PM, TylorJudd said:

This brings so much into perspective for myself. I had my very first fitting in 19 years this September at GolfTec. I paid for a full bag fitting and they had to split it up into two sessions at different times of the day. No problem. So when I got there, I could tell nobody wanted to be at work. We start with the driver and we go through the Stealth first, then the rogue, then Mizuno, then the TSR3. Immediately he pointed out that I don't produce enough trajectory and I should hit up on the ball. So he changes the settings to D3 with weight at heel position 2 and he says I'm using a HZRDUS White??? Whatever that is. I hit that driver well but my numbers weren't there. I hit the T200 irons and P790 as well as the apex pro and Mizuno. I was told that your number are where they need to be and you can choose whichever you prefer. So I use a Callaway X2 Hot with a Graphite Design Tour AD G 60 Stiff. I make those tweaks to my swing and I am immediately getting into the territory of the TSR3 Driver which was 298 carry and 313 avg. Same with my irons, I wasn't hitting as far, almost 20 yards according to flight scope. But my numbers were where they wanted them. I just needed to regrip the shafts and lengthen by 1/2". They have Project X Rifle 6.0 in them. Now granted my irons should be 2 degree upright but that is probably some of the distance difference right there. I redid my wedges which was a good call but never giving me advice that would improve my game, just providing a commission. I really appreciate when people bring this to light and show that their industry will be deceptive. I just wish we all had money for a flight scope hahah

So you walk in with non Titleist (sans wedge) equipment, you walk out with all Titleist equipment?  

is that what happened?

Edited January 18, 2023 by caryncgolfer

[caryncgolfer]

On 12/28/2022 at 11:34 AM, fixyurdivot said:

This is the ideal scenario.  I suspect it is also not very common.  

Regarding Crossfield's comments, the key statement/question is "do I get fitted or do I take lessons?"  I believe club fitting has largely consumed the golf community at the expense of lessons.  All the new technology, glitzy studio environments with drawers and racks filled with every make/model of heads and shafts, buckets-o-data, and dare I say quick-fix illusion, has folks filling time slots at fitting bays everywhere.  We all know fitted clubs do not correct swing flaws. Getting fitted for clubs is relatively easy and fun for most.  Getting lessons with someone critiquing your golf swing, and putting in the time to make those often not so easy changes, is work... grind it out, work.

I was fitted the first time to update 35 year old technology (PE2's to G410's). Pretty soon afterwards, a second time to get out of steel shafts due to my left shoulder and lesser extent left elbow pain. Neither fitter offered any suggestions on swing mechanics but then I was there for a club fitting and not swing lessons, so no real surprise.  Would it have been helpful that one or both of these guys had also been my instructor, knew my swing issues and was factoring that into which heads and shafts were pulled.... hmmm, good question, I don't know .

Exactly it’s the old “throw Cash at the problem”

“I don’t want to work or think hard to make my golf better.  Here’s cash Club Champion/TXG.  Make me better.”

[RickyBobby_PR]

On 1/3/2023 at 10:40 PM, Micah T said:

The idea of a fitter giving me swing advice or suggesting swing changes scares me. I’ve worked with my coach for over 2 years; and everything we worked on in the 1st year was set up and grip related. He stopped doing fittings as Covid reduced the inventory he had access to. I recommend to all my friends to get lessons over fittings. I’ve had 15+ lessons over the last 4 years: went from a 16 handicap to a 2 handicap. I’ve never met anyone whose handicap has dropped significantly due to a custom fitting alone. I’m a believer in custom fittings(I use club champion) but I wouldn’t attribute any of my improvements to fitting until this past year. 

A good fitter that has the ability to give solid swing advice is also going to be good enough to know when and where to offer that advice. The chances are that a fitter who has a 2 handicap is going to suggest any swing advice. 
 

Correct most people aren’t making a large improvement in their game with a fitting. They may see improved results from their mishits being more playable, they will more than likely have improved ball flight rom equipment being optimized to their swing, but at the end of the day the golfer still has to execute the golf shot at hand.

@Golfspy_CG2fitting at txg a few years back is a perfect example of what Crossfield is getting at. 

[Franc38]

Just watched the fitting of Good Good by the top Callaway guys at the Ely centre...
One of the older fitters said something that is very much in line with my intuition and what Crossfield argued, albeit in a possibly more "moderate way".

I loosely quote

"for your average golfer who doesn't plays much, we'll find the equipment to remedy the faults in his swing... Then you have your better player and to them there is two dimensions, the equipment and the swing. We want to give them something as neutral as possible in terms of equipment so that that they can find and improve what's not as good in their swing, and if the ball does something weird, they know it's the swing".

Didn't talk directly about improving the swing of the fitted but it seemed to relate quite a bit nonetheless.

[TylorJudd]

6 hours ago, caryncgolfer said:

So you walk in with non Titleist (sans wedge) equipment, you walk out with all Titleist equipment?  

is that what happened?

Ya but I didn't order any clubs from them. I took my build specs and ordered my vokeys from Titleist. Then started tinkering with clubs adjustments. 

[chisag]

8 hours ago, caryncgolfer said:

Exactly it’s the old “throw Cash at the problem”

“I don’t want to work or think hard to make my golf better.  Here’s cash Club Champion/TXG.  Make me better.”

 

... I just don't think that is common for many forum members and certainly not in the real world. As an example, one guy I get paired up with has a home made swing and makes it work for him. Could he improve with lessons? Certainly but I doubt he would ever take lessons and even if he did his unorthodox swing would need an almost complete overhaul. He knows nothing about equipment. He is playing a Sim2 Max and I was surprised to see a Ventus Blue Velocore shaft in it. Turns out he had no idea because he bought it used in "mint" condition but it came with plastic on the head and he didn't even know what a Ventus was let alone the difference between a stock Ventus vs Velocore. When I told him it was a $350 upgrade shaft he laughed and said what a bargain because that is what he paid for the driver. Kinda like getting a pair of hand made Italian shoes with buttery soft leather for the price at Famous Footwear but in 5 sizes too large for your feet. 

... He hits it OK but way too often hits it low and right, his gentle fade turning into a low slice. Getting fit, the first thing they would do is find a shaft that matched his swing. A softer tip would instantly change his ball flight and even the stock Ventus would be a better fit. I imagine they would also drop him from a stiff to a regular flex. I think his money would be better spent at a fitting than lessons. 

... As an instructor, there is no doubt lessons would be more beneficial than a fitting for most. But that is assuming they are in clubs that reasonably fit their swing, which isn't always the case. I put together outings on another forum and one of the prolific posters was questioning if he should tip his new S-Flex Speeder 757 or play it straight in. I put him in my group so I could watch him play and make a recommendation. I was shocked to see him carrying the ball around 180 with a weak slice. Oh boy that was awkward as he was a great guy and I had to tactfully suggest something with maybe a slightly softer tip and perhaps R-Flex to "take advantage of his power fade".  

... While most of my students genuinely wanted to improve and were willing to put in the work, one of the eye openers for a new instructor is more than a few will not put in any work, are resistant to change but expect improvement with a single tip that fixes their ball flight problems and lack of distance. Crazy right? Lessons are only the answer if you are willing to practice and accept you're game will suffer before it gets better, while fittings can benefit everyone. 

[null]

On 1/4/2023 at 9:32 AM, Jim Shaw said:

Getting fitted outside is not the correct way to go, makes no sense and a waste of money. 

For people that don't know their numbers and game very well (which is the majority of weekend golfers), I agree.

However, I know my yardages, what different ball flights mean, etc etc.  I actually prefer a monitor-less fitting outdoors to start the fitting.  I can usually weed out the non-competitive clubs and then bring in the launch monitor when I need to do the fine tuning.

But again, I am not your average weekend golfer.

Nothing in life is binary, specially when it comes to golf, the golf swing, and fitting.  

[Jim Shaw]

29 minutes ago, Golfspy_Lukes said:

For people that don't know their numbers and game very well (which is the majority of weekend golfers), I agree.

However, I know my yardages, what different ball flights mean, etc etc.  I actually prefer a monitor-less fitting outdoors to start the fitting.  I can usually weed out the non-competitive clubs and then bring in the launch monitor when I need to do the fine tuning.

But again, I am not your average weekend golfer.

Nothing in life is binary, specially when it comes to golf, the golf swing, and fitting.  

by non competitive clubs do you mean distance only clubs?

[null]

11 minutes ago, Jim Shaw said:

by non competitive clubs do you mean distance only clubs?

No not at all.  Ones that I have trouble consistently hitting the middle of the face (whether it be due to shaft options, sole design for irons and wedges, weighting distribution, etc).  I can tell if a ball is launching too high or too low.  Spinning too much or too little.  Excessive horizontal dispersion.

I don't need a launch monitor to tell me those things when there is a noticeable disparity.  I like to use a launch monitor at the end when it is really close, or I am trying to optimize my final setup.

[Jim Shaw]

45 minutes ago, chisag said:

 

... I just don't think that is common for many forum members and certainly not in the real world. As an example, one guy I get paired up with has a home made swing and makes it work for him. Could he improve with lessons? Certainly but I doubt he would ever take lessons and even if he did his unorthodox swing would need an almost complete overhaul. He knows nothing about equipment. He is playing a Sim2 Max and I was surprised to see a Ventus Blue Velocore shaft in it. Turns out he had no idea because he bought it used in "mint" condition but it came with plastic on the head and he didn't even know what a Ventus was let alone the difference of stock Ventus vs Velocore. When I told him it was a $350 upgrade shaft he laughed and said what a bargain because that is what he paid for the driver. Kinda like getting a pair of hand made Italian shoes with buttery soft leather for the price at Famous Footwear but in 5 sizes too large for your feet. 

... He hits it OK but way too often hits it low and right, his gentle fade turning into a low semi slice. Getting fit, the first thing they would do is find a shaft that matched his swing. A softer tip would instantly change his ball flight and even the stock Ventus would be a better fit. I imagine they would also drop him from a stiff to a regular flex. I think huis money would be better spent at a fitting than lessons. 

... As an instructor, there is no doubt lessons would be more beneficial than a fitting for most. But that is assuming they are in clubs that reasonably fit their swing, which isn't alway the case. I put together outings on another forum and one of the prolific posters was questioning if he should tip his new S-Flex Speeder 757 or play it straight in. I put him in my group so I could watch him play and make a recommendation. I was shocked to see him carrying the ball around 180 with a weak slice. Oh boy that was awkward as he was a great guy and I had to tactfully suggest something with a softer tip and perhaps R-Flex to "take advantage of his power fade".  

... While most of my students genuinely wanted to improve and were willing to put in the work, one of the eye openers for a new instructor is more than a few will not put in any work, are resistant to change but expect improvement with a single tip that fixes their ball flight problems and lack of distance. Crazy right? Lessons are only the answer if you are willing to practice and accept you're game will suffer before it gets better while fittings can benefit everyone. 

lots going on in this post, in regards to your comment "more than a few will not put in any work" I have seen that over the years as well, even I have trouble making "big" changes at this stage in my career, more mental than physical I guess. 

[caryncgolfer]

50 minutes ago, Golfspy_Lukes said:

For people that don't know their numbers and game very well (which is the majority of weekend golfers), I agree.

However, I know my yardages, what different ball flights mean, etc etc.  I actually prefer a monitor-less fitting outdoors to start the fitting.  I can usually weed out the non-competitive clubs and then bring in the launch monitor when I need to do the fine tuning.

But again, I am not your average weekend golfer.

Nothing in life is binary, specially when it comes to golf, the golf swing, and fitting.  

I dunno who posted the outside comment but Crossfield literally used to fit people for 7-10 years at the driving range he started his channel on. So hehe, that’s silly

[null]

1 minute ago, caryncgolfer said:

I dunno who posted the outside comment but Crossfield literally used to fit people for 7-10 years at the driving range he started his channel on. So hehe, that’s silly

The guy that owns my driving range is a club fitter.  He fits everyone outside first without a monitor and then brings them indoors on the launch monitor to fine tune.   And he's great

[caryncgolfer]

Just now, Golfspy_Lukes said:

The guy that owns my driving range is a club fitter.  He fits everyone outside first without a monitor and then brings them indoors on the launch monitor to fine tune.   And he's great

Ever asked him what the launch monitor helps him measure?  I know they give a lot of data.  Is it trackman or GC?

[null]

2 minutes ago, caryncgolfer said:

Ever asked him what the launch monitor helps him measure?  I know they give a lot of data.  Is it trackman or GC?

GC2

He does it to fine tune the final fitting - either show the difference between two different clubs (ballspeed, spin, launch, etc) or to fine tune one club (weight placement, hosel settings, loft, lie, etc.

[Franc38]

13 minutes ago, Golfspy_Lukes said:

The guy that owns my driving range is a club fitter.  He fits everyone outside first without a monitor and then brings them indoors on the launch monitor to fine tune.   And he's great

If he uses GC2, what's the point in going inside? The Foresight launch monitors do close-capture data on a few inches, so environment isn't a factor and you usually do swing to an outside target, not a screen when you play golf... The best fitting setting, IMHO is using GC2 (or better yet Quad), outdoors, on a grass range.

[null]

6 minutes ago, Franc38 said:

If he uses GC2, what's the point in going inside? The Foresight launch monitors do close-capture data on a few inches, so environment isn't a factor and you usually do swing to an outside target, not a screen when you play golf... The best fitting setting, IMHO is using GC2 (or better yet Quad), outdoors, on a grass range.

Because indoors is where he has his computer and all of his fitting carts - and it is where the teaching pro conducts his indoor lessons.  So it's not something they just want to disconnect and bring it outside.  It is a very small green grass facility.

[RickyBobby_PR]

On 1/4/2023 at 9:32 AM, Jim Shaw said:

some great takeaways from me on this subject. seems like fitting and lessons are as personal as each golfers swings, which makes total sense to me. Since the cross section of players on this site vary quite a bit ie. low index's to mid index's to higher index's the comments vary quite a bit. So far I tend to focus on the lower index comments however when Micah T says he has gone from a 16 index to a 2 index I take notice. My curiosity peaks and I want to know how in the heck he improved so much, if it is directly from proper fitting of "tools" that is wonderful. Also when I see the results from my fellow provincial golfer TylerJudd, driver distance, 7 iron distance, etc. those numbers say to me he has some really really good things going on and must have different areas of opportunities to get his index down a bit. 

As a comment, tracking numbers in a controlled environment inside, with a launch monitor, I believe 100% this is the way to go. Since golf is a "constant series of adjustment" on the course, temperature, uneven lies, wind, feel, if you have a sore neck or foot or whatever, all golfers have to have a baseline and adjust from, ie if your baseline for your 8 iron (which mine is) carry 135 yds, then you can adjust to the elements etc. Getting fitted outside is not the correct way to go, makes no sense and a waste of money. 

Getting fit is going to give someone the chance to make the best swing possible because they aren’t fighting the equipment but rather the equipment is working with their swing, but lessons, practice and putting all that to use on the course. Many think just taking lessons is going to make them better and they ignore the practice aspect especially practice with a purpose. 
 

As for indoor fittings it’s really a personal thing. Some people have a mental block when hitting indoors and it affects their swing and it becomes a waste of a fitting. Others need or want to see the actual ball flight and how a change in loft, lie, shaft feel affect their swing and the ball flight. Some make not like the way the ball flies and will adjust to change the flight or tell the fitter that the setup doesn’t work for them.

I have done both and will default to outdoors because i need to see the ball flight and how it changes with each change made by the fitter. I also need an actual target to aim at and not a screen. Also when it comes to irons having grass to hit off of gives a good indication of turf interaction.

I don’t care about numbers during my fitting and will only confer with the fitter if spin is too high or low.

In golf there’s no absolutes and indoor or outdoor fitting can be stated as one is the only way

[AzRoger]

Recently did a Ping iron/wedge fitting in Scottsdale, everything is setup outside with a trackman to monitor your shots, I prefer to hit off of real grass. To be honest we (me and the fitter) paid very little attention to the trackman data, looking more at flight, feel, and consistency. I'm not concerned too much with distance when iron fitted, not too hard to judge 7 iron distance and don't trust the loft game many manufacturers play.

One of the main reasons many give up on lessons is that in many/most cases you have to be willing to accept that you'll likely get worse before you see improvement, many just don't have the patience. The worse lesson I ever had was a teacher who tried to change about 5 different swing faults all in the first 30 minute lesson. I could barely take the club back with all the thoughts going through my head, never made it to lesson #2.

[bens197]

Ray Dalio once said “Be radically open minded.”

Anyone who thinks there is only one way to properly fit a golfer is someone I don’t want to be fit by. 

[GolfSpy BOS]

12 minutes ago, bens197 said:

Ray Dalio once said “Be radically open minded.”

Anyone who thinks there is only one way to properly fit a golfer is someone I don’t want to be fit by. 

For sure.  Some locations and setups may force fitters to fit indoors only, like my trip to True Spec in Boston a few years ago, but that doesn't mean it's the only way.   The place I got fit at first (and might be going back there this Sping) hits out of a shed to a full driving range.  They have their Trackman setup right there too, so it's the best of both worlds for me, as like @Golfspy_Lukes I like to see the actual ball flight along with the data if I can.  When I first got fit there he spent most of the time watching my ball versus looking at the screen, until we were getting close and dialing in final specs.

Heck when I made changes from that True Spec fitting I wasn't even sold on it until I was able to get out to the range, and then actually play some rounds with the clubs and see the gains from the fitting on the course.  

[Bob Pegram]

I am replying by using a fitting example. I used to work as a fitter at PGA Tour Superstore. I guy about 6'5" came in and said he was sent by the PGA Pro who was giving him lessons. The guy had standard length clubs and did not have an upright swing. That is a bad combination. When he swung down he was way outside the ball and way too high off the ground. He would then pull the club in towards himself to make contact with the ball, cutting across the ball and slicing badly. If he had an upright swing it possibly could have worked, but he didn't. I fit him with very long clubs that he immediately hit it much better. I suggested graphite shafts to keep the club weight and swingweight from being too heavy. He didn't like that - assumed they would be too whippy or too "wimpy". I explained that graphite shafts can just as stiff as steel shafts, but lighter. Anyway, we ordered the overlength irons with steel shafts. He picked them up. and came back less than a week later at a time I wasn't scheduled and returned them saying the PGA Pro who sent him to us said the clubs didn't fit him. The PGA Pro sabotaged what he had initiated! Maybe he was afraid he wouldn't be able to keep milking money from the guy. Longer clubs promote a hook and work well when the golfer is big enough to handle them. We ended up selling the clubs for less in the returned clubs section. Whatever tall guy bought them got a good deal!

[GaryF]

On 1/19/2023 at 8:23 PM, Bob Pegram said:

I am replying by using a fitting example. I used to work as a fitter at PGA Tour Superstore.

So I have a general question about fitting from those on here that have worked as a fitter, past and present.  I am NOT looking to be fit here, but for reference, I am in the market for new irons, having played my fitted Ping G15s since about 2009.  They were fitted with their standard amt S shafts, and 2* upright.  At the time, it was before I had lessons and I knew very little (actually nothing) about swing mechanics.  The lie angle was determined using some kind of board and/or tape to see where the club bottomed out.  Since then, I’ve improved from mid 20s hdcp to 11-12.  I feel I’ve been fighting the 2-up with pulls or over-draws, but overall have done well with them but I do fight a slight out to in with 2-3* closed face.  At this point, I have out-aged stiff shafts and have a 7i SS of 75, and I’m 5’9”.

I know I’ve provided a fair amount of info, and again I’m not looking to be fit here.  I recently had one outdoor fitting by one brand and may do another.  I just would like to know, is there a general step-by-step process? I assume one of the first steps is a short q&a, then observation hitting my current 7i.  What are the next steps, etc?  If it’s not asking too much, I’d like to hear feedback regarding both indoor and outdoor fitting.  
 

 

[caryncgolfer]

4 minutes ago, GaryF said:

So I have a general question about fitting from those on here that have worked as a fitter, past and present.  I am NOT looking to be fit here, but for reference, I am in the market for new irons, having played my fitted Ping G15s since about 2009.  They were fitted with their standard amt S shafts, and 2* upright.  At the time, it was before I had lessons and I knew very little (actually nothing) about swing mechanics.  The lie angle was determined using some kind of board and/or tape to see where the club bottomed out.  Since then, I’ve improved from mid 20s hdcp to 11-12.  I feel I’ve been fighting the 2-up with pulls or over-draws, but overall have done well with them but I do fight a slight out to in with 2-3* closed face.  At this point, I have out-aged stiff shafts and have a 7i SS of 75, and I’m 5’9”.

I know I’ve provided a fair amount of info, and again I’m not looking to be fit here.  I recently had one outdoor fitting by one brand and may do another.  I just would like to know, is there a general step-by-step process? I assume one of the first steps is a short q&a, then observation hitting my current 7i.  What are the next steps, etc?  If it’s not asking too much, I’d like to hear feedback regarding both indoor and outdoor fitting.  
 

 

Hmm 2 up on a 5 9” dude, that seems odd because I think you would be “Standard” on most manufacturers charts.  You could buy 1 standard club for the set you use, like that demo club everyone gets.  Then test it against your 2 up club.  It’s a cheap way to test a bit

 

* oh yeah also your wrist to floor measurement is important.  You can see each manufacturers instructions on how to measure that on you’re self.

Edited January 21, 2023 by caryncgolfer

[Jim Shaw]

2 hours ago, GaryF said:

So I have a general question about fitting from those on here that have worked as a fitter, past and present.  I am NOT looking to be fit here, but for reference, I am in the market for new irons, having played my fitted Ping G15s since about 2009.  They were fitted with their standard amt S shafts, and 2* upright.  At the time, it was before I had lessons and I knew very little (actually nothing) about swing mechanics.  The lie angle was determined using some kind of board and/or tape to see where the club bottomed out.  Since then, I’ve improved from mid 20s hdcp to 11-12.  I feel I’ve been fighting the 2-up with pulls or over-draws, but overall have done well with them but I do fight a slight out to in with 2-3* closed face.  At this point, I have out-aged stiff shafts and have a 7i SS of 75, and I’m 5’9”.

I know I’ve provided a fair amount of info, and again I’m not looking to be fit here.  I recently had one outdoor fitting by one brand and may do another.  I just would like to know, is there a general step-by-step process? I assume one of the first steps is a short q&a, then observation hitting my current 7i.  What are the next steps, etc?  If it’s not asking too much, I’d like to hear feedback regarding both indoor and outdoor fitting.  
 

 

!st. off, good for you deciding to get fitted, in my mind we as golfers have all these "tools" available to us so we might as well use them to help us get the correct set of clubs. 

I think for me I would like to go into the fitting without too many pre conceived ideas, I would like the fitter to tell me what is best.

I always get fitted indoors but thought this forum and format I see some golfers don't like the indoor experience for one reason or another so you should know that before you go in.

Make sure you are ready for information overload and summarize a lot while going through the fitting so when you leave you don't go "what the heck just happened here" lol

[RickyBobby_PR]

5 hours ago, GaryF said:

I know I’ve provided a fair amount of info, and again I’m not looking to be fit here.  I recently had one outdoor fitting by one brand and may do another.  I just would like to know, is there a general step-by-step process? I assume one of the first steps is a short q&a, then observation hitting my current 7i.  What are the next steps, etc?  If it’s not asking too much, I’d like to hear feedback regarding both indoor and outdoor fitting.  

A good fitter is going to do a q&a with you to see what you are trying to get out of the fitting, understand where you game is, what your practice and playing is like, they will also look at your bag to see what kind of setup you have and ask questions why it’s that way.

Then they are going to watch you as you warmup to see what your swing is like and what the ball does to give them an idea of where to start the fitting.

if any of them use a lie board or tape to determine lie you need to consider moving on from that fitting

[RickyBobby_PR]

5 hours ago, caryncgolfer said:

Hmm 2 up on a 5 9” dude, that seems odd because I think you would be “Standard” on most manufacturers charts.  You could buy 1 standard club for the set you use, like that demo club everyone gets.  Then test it against your 2 up club.  It’s a cheap way to test a bit

 

It could be how he delivered the club and really has nothing to do with his height.

5 hours ago, caryncgolfer said:

* oh yeah also your wrist to floor measurement is important.  You can see each manufacturers instructions on how to measure that on you’re self.

No. Other than a starting point there is no use for wrist to floor. Ping who was pretty much the brand behind this concept doesn’t use it in their fittings. The fitters at TPI, ECPC, The kingdom don’t use it including when they fit the pros. TXG and other high end fitters don’t. Length and lie are determined by how one swings and delivers the club. Some fitters will adjust length before they adjust lie.

@Golfspy_CG2is 6’7” and was fit into standard length irons at TPI and the fitter considered going 1/4” short and iirc he was it into their standard lie.

Wrist to floor wouldn’t have put him in either of those settings 

 

[GaryF]

6 minutes ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

A good fitter is going to do a q&a with you to see what you are trying to get out of the fitting, understand where you game is, what your practice and playing is like, they will also look at your bag to see what kind of setup you have and ask questions why it’s that way.

Then they are going to watch you as you warmup to see what your swing is like and what the ball does to give them an idea of where to start the fitting.

if any of them use a lie board or tape to determine lie you need to consider moving on from that fitting

Thanks for your input.  By what means should they use to determine lie? Just observing the swing and/or divot then trial &error, trackman data or is there some other process.  Probably obvious this is one of the areas I’m really concerned with.  It also seems that the lie adjustment needs to take into consideration the brand/model since there seems to be 0.5 to 1.0* difference in 7i lie between models. 

[caryncgolfer]

27 minutes ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

It could be how he delivered the club and really has nothing to do with his height.

No. Other than a starting point there is no use for wrist to floor. Ping who was pretty much the brand behind this concept doesn’t use it in their fittings. The fitters at TPI, ECPC, The kingdom don’t use it including when they fit the pros. TXG and other high end fitters don’t. Length and lie are determined by how one swings and delivers the club. Some fitters will adjust length before they adjust lie.

@Golfspy_CG2is 6’7” and was fit into standard length irons at TPI and the fitter considered going 1/4” short and iirc he was it into their standard lie.

Wrist to floor wouldn’t have put him in either of those settings 

 

Doesn’t Ping’s fitting charts dictate height to how flat and upright of settings they choose for you?  The color code system 

[GolfSpy_APH]

23 minutes ago, caryncgolfer said:

Doesn’t Ping’s fitting charts dictate height to how flat and upright of settings they choose for you?  The color code system 

That's a starting point. Or general guide. Depending on ball flight and n more you can move to different lie angles. 

[caryncgolfer]

1 minute ago, GolfSpy_APH said:

That's a starting point. Or general guide. Depending on ball flight and n more you can move to different lie angles. 

So not a no?