Negative Forum Reviews?

Hacker60521 · July 28

I’ve been a member for about a year, and I’ve really enjoyed reading the forum reviews. To a certain extent I might consider a purchase or at least investigate something a bit more deeply than I would have without the review. And I’m always impressed by the depth of analysis and breadth of the testing group. But one thing I’ve noticed from the reviews I’ve read is that I haven’t seen any “negative” reviews. If anyone can point me to a negative forum review I’d please pass it along.

So I’m wondering if there is a bit of confirmation bias or the fact that the equipment being tested is given to the testers for free creates more of a tendency to only generate very positive responses. I know in my own case I “love” the ProV1 — but I get them for free. Just as an example, I’d like to know would the tester be willing to spend their own $XXX on the item that they are testing?

I want to be really clear. I’m genuinely curious to know the answer, and I’m hoping that this doesn’t become a personal attack — as it would on many other forums. Thanks in advance.

sirchunksalot · July 28

There have been plenty of reviews where the item being tested either didn't go in the bag or failed, I wish I could remember specifics. The only one I can personally think of that really crashed and burned was the Cobra Agera putter I used in the Cobra 50th Anniversary Challenge. I just could not make a putt with it over 6 feet. I'm not the greatest putter, but it's the strength of my game.

I think a lot of the competitors had aspects of the bag that they didn't continue on with. I know @GolfSpy_KFT, @chisag, @Tom the Golf Nut didn't get along with the drivers and @chisag wasn't a fan of the wedges.

I think a lot of stuff gets good reviews because a lot of the testers practice more when they get something to test than they normally do. I can imagine there have been people who gave stuff stellar reviews just because it's free, but I can't imagine it's many.

@Hacker60521 didn't be afraid to ask questions that might stir the pot, that's what MGS was founded on and why I love this forum.

Edited July 28 by sirchunksalot

russtopherb · July 28

I have a hunch, and it's pure speculation, that Cleveland hasn't been involved in too much forum testing since the original Launcher driver review a few years back. I don't think a single tester got along with that one, and they were pretty open about not wanting to keep it in their bags.

There's plenty of feedback from testers here, both positive and negative, on products we've reviewed. I know I had some negative feedback when I got the chance to test the W/S C300 irons when it came to their build and performance.

Hacker60521 · July 28

3 minutes ago, sirchunksalot said:

There have been plenty of reviews where the item being tested either didn't go in the bag or failed, I wish I could remember specifics. The only one I can personally think of that really crashed and burned was the Cobra Agera putter I used in the Cobra 50th Anniversary Challenge. I just could not make a putt with it over 6 feet. I'm not the greatest putter, but it's the strength of my game.

@Hacker60521 didn't be afraid to ask questions that might stir the pot, that's what MGS was founded on and why I love this forum.

@sirchunksalot thanks for your thoughts. Much appreciated. If I wanted to stir the pot, I’d ask about ketchup on hot dogs. Haha. Being from Chicago those are fighting words.

bens197 · July 28

It’s a great question and while there may be some bias, I’d temper that with one thought.

Potential testers are asked to narrow their desired testing to one specific type of opportunity.

Chances are high that the clubs for example, are going to be better than what the tester is currently playing.

The last three items I’ve tested are not going anywhere. I’m part of the positive review club and while I’m open minded, I can say not only that they were better performers, I am sharing recurring updates to the original test threads to validate my score.

Hacker60521 · July 28

2 hours ago, bens197 said:

It’s a great question and while there may be some bias, I’d temper that with one thought.

Potential testers are asked to narrow their desired testing to one specific type of opportunity.

Chances are high that the clubs for example, are going to be better than what the tester is currently playing.

The last three items I’ve tested are not going anywhere. I’m part of the positive review club and while I’m open minded, I can say not only that they were better performers, I am sharing recurring updates to the original test threads to validate my score.

@bens197 thanks for your thoughts. I’d like to ask you a question. Suppose at the end of the testing period you could either return the tested item or you could keep it by paying the current retail price at a big box store or online retailer. How many or the items would you have purchased?

KC Golf · July 28

9 minutes ago, Hacker60521 said:

@bens197 thanks for your thoughts. I’d like to ask you a question. Suppose at the end of the testing period you could either return the tested item or you could keep it by paying the current retail price at a big box store or online retailer. How many or the items would you have purchased?

That’s an interesting question. For me it was Arccos testing, I liked it but most of my fellow testers did not think the subscription was worth it, so they gave up on it. I liked it so much I bought more sensors and also another improved Link and the new Gen 3 putter sensors. I think I paid a lot more to replace the Arccos stuff plus 3 years of subscription fees than what I got for free from the MGS testing. To me it’s been worth it.

Shrek74 · July 28

The Mizuno Long Game test from last year definitely had a mixed bag of results. Some like one thing but not others, and other testers liked some things gs but not one. Or something like that.

I think the Caley irons and driving iron was also a mixed bag of results.

I have seen several over the last year where there was an additional tester due to the original group had at least one who didn't game the clubs and thus passed them on to another to test. It doesn't happen a ton, but I have seen it happen and I've only been here about 16 months or so.

cnosil · July 28

4 hours ago, Hacker60521 said:

Suppose at the end of the testing period you could either return the tested item or you could keep it by paying the current retail price at a big box store or online retailer. How many or the items would you have purchased?

Of the items I have tested some would be kept and some returned:

KBS Hybrid Proto shafts - I'd buy and have bought an additional one.
Wilson C300 - The irons were good, but probably wouldn't have bought.
Exputt - I'd buy; love the product.
ShotScope H4/Rangefinder - I'd probably return. Good product and I still think it is one of the best shot trackers I don't feel like it does that much for me to help improve my game. I am not much of a rangefinder user; prefer GPS.
Sacks Parente Putter - I'd buy. But I am a putter guy and like to try all kinds of putters.
Ghost Bag - Bag is good, but don't think it is better than other bags on the market. Said in my review I wouldn't buy another and that it is more about style than functionality.

I think most products are good if they fit what you are looking for. The products I have tested were things I was very interested in and were on my consider purchase list.

As for a less than stellar review the True Stroke Putting Trainer didn't get the greatest review.

https://forum.mygolfspy.com/topic/63330-true-stroke-putting-trainer-2024-forum-member-review

Tom the Golf Nut · July 28

Sometimes it is a hit or miss. For the most part there is a lot of thought by the Forum Staff on what is a good fit for someone. For instance If your a higher handicap player they will not try to fit you into players clubs to test.
I have tested product that just didn’t work for me and passed it on to others to test and keep. I’ve even done the same with training aids that I purchased. If I’m done with them why not let someone else use it.
Sometimes reviews are positive but it was something I wouldn’t play. As an example one of my first tests were for the Top Flight Gamer golf balls. It truly was a good ball for a two piece ball. I played them for a full season. I just needed a little more spin. But it really played well and a mid handicap guy would love them and you won’t break the bank.

GolfSpy_SHARK · July 28

@Tom the Golf Nut took the words right out of my mouth.
a lot of times (heck should be all the time) it’s testing the claims of what the OEM is saying the equipment does or what features it has that are better. It’s all about putting those claims to the test and if they don’t perform for that certain person it shouldn’t reflect in a negative review.

but as a few have listed there are dome reviews out there for sure

tony@CIC · July 28

9 hours ago, Hacker60521 said:

I’ve been a member for about a year, and I’ve really enjoyed reading the forum reviews. To a certain extent I might consider a purchase or at least investigate something a bit more deeply than I would have without the review. And I’m always impressed by the depth of analysis and breadth of the testing group. But one thing I’ve noticed from the reviews I’ve read is that I haven’t seen any “negative” reviews. If anyone can point me to a negative forum review I’d please pass it along.

So I’m wondering if there is a bit of confirmation bias or the fact that the equipment being tested is given to the testers for free creates more of a tendency to only generate very positive responses. I know in my own case I “love” the ProV1 — but I get them for free. Just as an example, I’d like to know would the tester be willing to spend their own $XXX on the item that they are testing?

I want to be really clear. I’m genuinely curious to know the answer, and I’m hoping that this doesn’t become a personal attack — as it would on many other forums. Thanks in advance.

Great question and one I've thought about in the past. As you peruse the older reviews look at the "Play It or Trade It" ratings - those are pretty insightful and I think pretty honest. As for my experience as a tester, I always found that the products I was testing from Wilson C300 irons to 410 driver, etc etc. were always an improvement over the equipment I was currently using at the time, and as a result my reviews were generally favorable.

I have purchased equipment as a result of reading "Official Tester" reviews. Some of the equipment worked out others didn't so my feeling is that the equipment testing reviews is a starting point and like other things we buy, it's still up to you to make sure it's right for you. However, one big benefit to these reviews is that it may identity some brands or models that you normally wouldn't consider, a good case in point is Zebra Putters.

Blueberry_Squishie · July 28

I did a review for a kit of Puttout products a little while back. There was this fence thing that was part of the kit that I wasn't afraid of saying it wasn't particularly useful.

bens197 · July 28

6 hours ago, Hacker60521 said:

@bens197 thanks for your thoughts. I’d like to ask you a question. Suppose at the end of the testing period you could either return the tested item or you could keep it by paying the current retail price at a big box store or online retailer. How many or the items would you have purchased?

All 3.

No questions asked I wouldn’t think twice. And while some may not believe me without putting out the cash, all three of those testing clubs are still in my bag. They’re also going nowhere.

I sold my Cameron Phantom X that was replaced by the LAB. It was also quoted by LAB and MGS “I said if the LAB was better, I’d sell my Cameron; I am selling my Cameron.”

I have my Vokey wedges away because the S159 line was far and away better.

I also sold my 223 irons after playing the T100 irons. Among all three, these are indescribably good.

bens197 · July 28

The irons were easily the best of the pack. My index dropped from 5.3 to 3.5 within the testing period of 6 weeks.

While your points merit discussion, the testing opportunities being mostly positive could in fact be simply because, the products deserve a positive response.

Edited July 28 by bens197

Berg Ryman · July 28

So I've been involved in quite a few negative-ish reviews. First, the Odyssey Stroke Lab test I believe my final review put me in the 60's out of 100. The Dollar Driver Club test was pretty negative, partially because the company folded or restructured during the test, and the Superspeed test wasn't all gangbusters from us.

It happens, but those tests are normally also ones that don't get much traction because sometimes we don't have much positive to say to drive engagement to those reviews.

Josh Parker · July 28

10 hours ago, Hacker60521 said:

I’ve been a member for about a year, and I’ve really enjoyed reading the forum reviews. To a certain extent I might consider a purchase or at least investigate something a bit more deeply than I would have without the review. And I’m always impressed by the depth of analysis and breadth of the testing group. But one thing I’ve noticed from the reviews I’ve read is that I haven’t seen any “negative” reviews. If anyone can point me to a negative forum review I’d please pass it along.

So I’m wondering if there is a bit of confirmation bias or the fact that the equipment being tested is given to the testers for free creates more of a tendency to only generate very positive responses. I know in my own case I “love” the ProV1 — but I get them for free. Just as an example, I’d like to know would the tester be willing to spend their own $XXX on the item that they are testing?

I want to be really clear. I’m genuinely curious to know the answer, and I’m hoping that this doesn’t become a personal attack — as it would on many other forums. Thanks in advance.

The most recent one is the Autoflex shafts. I want to say at least one or two sent theirs to another member to test.

It's a legitimate question and one that I think if you look at all the reviews will find the "negative" but maybe slightly watered down a touch.

GolfSpy_BNG · July 28

While as staff we don’t encourage negative reviews we absolutely let members know that we want 100% honest ones.

There are negative reviews out there they just aren’t promoted like the positive ones.

GolfSpy SAM · July 28

Love this discussion, as it mirrors a lot of what the staff have been discussing privately for a while now. One of the things we are all passionate about is HONEST reviews, not just GLOWING reviews. For the vast majority of our testers, as has been said eloquently above, the new equipment they're getting to test is often significantly better than the equipment they're currently gaming.

That being said, if you look at the latest L.A.B. reviews, multiple of the testers didn't love the putter from the get-go - there was a warming-up period that most of them talked about, and each took off points from their reviews for that very reason.

As someone mentioned above, a lot of what we do as Staff in selecting our testers is to make sure that it IS a good fit - it's not fair to the OEM to have a high-handicapper testing blades, for instance, nor is it good to have a scratch player testing super game improvement irons only to come to the conclusion that "these are too big,"

The main goal of our testing is always to see if the OEM's claims are true - not just "is this good" (because honestly, 99% of companies out there are putting out "good" products), but "does this deliver on what the OEM SAYS it does?"

We for sure want to encourage our reviewers to have a critical eye (and in fact it's something I personally would like to see more of), but again - in a lot of cases, our testers are putting a brand new item up against something that hasn't been changed in their bag in a long while.

I think training aids are often items that get criticized more heavily, as they're not usually replacing something in the bag, and (historically) have VERY high claims from the manufacturers ("This rubber band will make you NEVER FAT A SHOT AGAIN!" / "Our training grip / golf-socks / thermo-cooled underwear GUARANTEE you hit it 75 more yards!", etc.).

But again - great question, and I'm SURE there's a list somewhere of items that didn't receive a particularly glowing review. I think, as was already mentioned above, the great thing about the community is that when something ISN'T a great fit, it's almost always passed on to another user interested in trying it. As we've discovered, one man's "this doesn't work for me at ALL" is another's "this is the GREATEST club I've ever used!"

Josh Parker · July 29

I'll add to what I said earlier, most every testing opportunity has some "negative" result for a tester or two. I think it's discussed in a way that doesn't just say "this product sucks" but more in a it isn't working for me. All products are pretty damn good these days but they don't work for everyone.

I just looked at the last handful of testing ops and just about everyone has some dislike to it.

Autoflex - 1 or 2 sent to new testers

Graphite Design - 1 or 2 haven't liked the results

LAB Golf - several not happy at the get go

Terra Forza - 1 or 2 didn't get along with

CaddyDaddy - a couple have brought up some things that haven't worked.

Ball Test - I would say you get 50/50 on the results on these every time.

I personally love seeing some "negative" results to testing because it's real and raw.

MNUte · July 29

In our testing how-to, the other Volvik Vivid testers and I were specifically told by the staff that they value honesty and that we shouldn't avoid negative reviews if we felt they were warranted. I genuinely appreciate that I get a chance to be open and honest with my review and that there's truly no pressure.

I also think an important thing to remember is that golf tech has gotten to a point where it's truly difficult to be BAD nowadays unless you're being cheap, truly brand new or out there, or along those lines. And a lot of the negatives that arise often come down to the unique claims of the product and how it plays to the person.

E.g., like Josh noted, the ball tests tend to be 50/50. I just did a mini review of a Srixon QStar Tour Divide in the Volvik Vivid thread as a baseline contrast to when I get the Vivids. I pointed out some aspects I didn't like with the divide (e.g. no alignment besides the split itself) and that I didn't see it being worth double my Kirklands. But it was still a genuinely great ball overall and deserved the positive review alongside the comments of what I didn't like.

Paul Hedrick · July 29

18 hours ago, KC Golf said:

That’s an interesting question. For me it was Arccos testing, I liked it but most of my fellow testers did not think the subscription was worth it, so they gave up on it. I liked it so much I bought more sensors and also another improved Link and the new Gen 3 putter sensors. I think I paid a lot more to replace the Arccos stuff plus 3 years of subscription fees than what I got for free from the MGS testing. To me it’s been worth it.

To follow up on KC Golf's comment, I was part of the Arccos testing that KC was. At the end of the subscription period, I switched to Shot Scope, mostly because I was not interested in spending the money for another year subscription. Having used both products, I can honestly say that, for me, I do not see any difference between them for what is important to me. I do not see one having a clear advantage over the other. That said, I do have some thoughts. I have to wonder how Shot Scope will sustain their business when sales slump, and spending my career in sales, sales ALWAYS slump at some point. I suppose they can always keep coming up with new products that perform better than their prior products that were supposed to solve their shortcomings. Personally I find that extremely annoying; Don't sell me something that you know has problems only to try and sell me something 'new and improved' at a later date. Anyway I am now back with Arccos and am satisfied with it.