Shaft Hack - The Otto Phlex Journey

[IndyBonzo]

I got a wild idea and just built a 43.5” OP pseudo-mini driver.  A total experiment.  MP5 L flex, tipped 1”, and fit with my Paradym TD 450 cc, and some weight to get it to D4 (which I may drop to D2).  I didn’t need to do this, but …

Maybe it will be awesome. I am optimistic.  

 

[MuniGolfer]

I finally have been able to start testing the maltby. I might like it better than the UST MP5. The spin seems to have a smaller dispersion for the same speed potential. I can’t wait to get it out on the course. Also, the matte black shaft with the g425 head is . I want to play a round with each of them soon and see what is best on course.

i just need to get back to speed training. My cruising club speed has dropped from around 116 last year, to around 111. 

[azstu324]

18 minutes ago, MuniGolfer said:

I finally have been able to start testing the maltby. I might like it better than the UST MP5. The spin seems to have a smaller dispersion for the same speed potential. I can’t wait to get it out on the course. Also, the matte black shaft with the g425 head is . I want to play a round with each of them soon and see what is best on course.

i just need to get back to speed training. My cruising club speed has dropped from around 116 last year, to around 111. 

I can't believe how great their shafts are.. and not just "for the price". I've now got Maltby shafts in 3 of my woods. 

[MuniGolfer]

7 hours ago, azstu324 said:

I can't believe how great their shafts are.. and not just "for the price". I've now got Maltby shafts in 3 of my woods. 

From what the club builder crowd says about their clubs, I shouldn’t have been surprised. I am thinking about using their shafts in my next fairway woods and I have been researching their irons.

[Shrek74]

9 hours ago, MuniGolfer said:

From what the club builder crowd says about their clubs, I shouldn’t have been surprised. I am thinking about using their shafts in my next fairway woods and I have been researching their irons.

If you want to test them out on the cheap, there is a Maltby KE4 TC Pro IST Fairway Wood Paks on sale for $105. 3/5/7 woods are options with the Maltby MPF fairway wood shaft. Free assembly or just do it yourself. I'm giving the 7-wood a go because that price is stupid good.

[azstu324]

10 hours ago, MuniGolfer said:

From what the club builder crowd says about their clubs, I shouldn’t have been surprised. I am thinking about using their shafts in my next fairway woods and I have been researching their irons.

If you haven't already, you'll find all the Maltby love here. I love my new adjustable 7 wood and my TS4's are probably the best irons I've ever used. Lots of great stuff here.

 

 

 

[ejgaudette]

Not ready to dive in all the way to OP super flexy quite yet, but did move down to a Tensi Blue AV 55 S which is down a flex and down in weight by at least 10 grams might be 12. Looking forward to taking it out for the first round I have on Sunday.

[azstu324]

32 minutes ago, ejgaudette said:

Not ready to dive in all the way to OP super flexy quite yet, but did move down to a Tensi Blue AV 55 S which is down a flex and down in weight by at least 10 grams might be 12. Looking forward to taking it out for the first round I have on Sunday.

Baby steps!

Edited April 11 by azstu324

[HikingMike]

Am I doing this without realizing, lol? I have a Ping G20 driver with a stock Ping R-flex shaft, it says "high balance point" on it, and I have a swing speed around 108-110. It may just be one step in flex rather than two. I played it for years, so possibly I adjusted to how it needs to be swung.

[IndyBonzo]

54 minutes ago, HikingMike said:

Am I doing this without realizing, lol? I have a Ping G20 driver with a stock Ping R-flex shaft, it says "high balance point" on it, and I have a swing speed around 108-110. It may just be one step in flex rather than two. I played it for years, so possibly I adjusted to how it needs to be swung.

It sounds like you are indeed doing it, or darn near.  At your swing speed, you would probably default into an X shaft (unless your fitter knew the secrets of the OP).

How heavy is the shaft you currently use? 

[HikingMike]

1 hour ago, IndyBonzo said:

It sounds like you are indeed doing it, or darn near.  At your swing speed, you would probably default into an X shaft (unless your fitter knew the secrets of the OP).

How heavy is the shaft you currently use? 

This was a hand-me-down... not a fit club, haha, not intentional. The golf discovery continues for me. I can definitely hit it well. But it's inconsistent and I think I have to be grooving a certain swing for it to work best. So that might make sense. 

I'm not sure about the shaft weight. Here's what it has on the shaft- "High Balance Point Technology" "TFC 169D" "R-Flex". That's all I saw.

Since then I have gotten fitted for a 3 wood (2 yrs ago), and have a Mitsubish Tensei AV 65 S-flex for that. And in January I went to a Golf Galaxy free fitting for Callaway Ai Smoke where they assigned a Linq 75 Xstiff-flex, and another at Golf Galaxy for TaylorMade Qi10 where they assigned a Tensei Blue 65 S-flex (so I guess that's the same as my 3-wood). 

When I hit my G20 at the beginning of those two recent fittings, it was mediocre, high spinning and seemed less distance than the clubs I tried. And it seemed a little worse than real life. Those were on indoor sims so maybe that had something to do with it, I'm not sure. Or my swing was not ready. Or the rumors are true they juice/nerf the sim, haha.

Edited April 12 by HikingMike
more detail

[cksurfdude]

21 hours ago, HikingMike said:

Here's what it has on the shaft- "High Balance Point Technology"

I wonder if that means counter-balanced?

Everyone's different obviously but for me a CB shaft didn't work well in the driver.

[azstu324]

22 minutes ago, cksurfdude said:

I wonder if that means counter-balanced?

Everyone's different obviously but for me a CB shaft didn't work well in the driver.

Yeah HBP means that the grip end is heavier and the balance point is further up the shaft and makes the head play lighter in SW. 

I guess I should add that if you have a problem with higher SW  with a heavier head (talking about you Ping!) these might be a decent option so you don't need to remove weight from the head and mess with MOI/Smash factor, etc, designed into the head. 

Edited April 13 by azstu324

[HikingMike]

9 hours ago, azstu324 said:

Yeah HBP means that the grip end is heavier and the balance point is further up the shaft and makes the head play lighter in SW. 

I guess I should add that if you have a problem with higher SW  with a heavier head (talking about you Ping!) these might be a decent option so you don't need to remove weight from the head and mess with MOI/Smash factor, etc, designed into the head. 

Thanks! Yeah that makes sense. 

I also did a search and came across this -

“The shaft PING TFC 169D shaft (both the regular and tour versions) have some weight distributed above the center point. This is done to have a bit more mass in the club head without it feeling overly heavy.”

https://thesandtrap.com/b/clubs/ping_g20_driver_review
 

So that sounds like the same idea. Interesting it might have slightly more mass in the head. It does swing “light” compared to other drivers I’ve swung, easily noticeable difference. I guess I don’t know what normal clubhead mass is anyway. 

Also this- 

“Ping’s proprietary high-balance-point TFC 169D shaft enables the golfer to swing a clubhead with more mass at the same speed, creating a higher MOI and generating faster ball speeds for long, straight drives.”

https://www.mygolfway.com/en/review-ping-g20-driver/
 

Is 208g slightly heavier for a driver head? Or was it 13 years ago? It looks like this is a 2011 release model originally. 

[geeman8]

So after getting to swing this for a while and getting it on the course, I can report on a few things. The Otto Phlex (Grafalloy Pro Launch Blue 45-A Flex) definitely gets my launch higher with the Triple Diamond, so much so I have to fully utilize my tour strong adapter and set it to -2. With my Accra TZ6, my peak height was well below 100ft, and averaging more around 75 ft.  With the Otto Phlex I have no issues with reaching 100 ft, and routinely get closer to 115 ft of peak height. This can be good or bad depending on the situation, but overall this is a big plus for me as I’d rather have more carry distance for consistency. Additionally, my spin numbers are much better. The Accra was only spinning around 1500rpm on average…way too low. The Otto Phlex is averaging 2500 rpm, which is much more usable. It’s also keeping my low hook miss more in check. I do swing around 112mph with a positive attack angle of around 3-4 degrees, FYI. The driver is set up as follows:

-45.75” length

-D4 swing weight

-9* head playing at 7*
 

This has definitely been interesting to test out, and has shown that I prefer an active shaft. The combination of low spin head and high launch shaft seems to work very well, at least for my swing.  I’ve never hit as many fairways prior to trying this setup! 

Edited April 14 by geeman8
Provide details on shaft used

[DukeStKing]

How exciting that there’s a chance to test Autoflex- wow! And what an opportunity for this thread to test the Otto Phlex against the original. 
 

[Nick_D]

How is everyone getting their swing weight? I've always used this online calculator as I don't have a scale and am curious how accurate it is....

[azstu324]

This is one that many of us use.  Probably similar to the Hireko. I used this calc for a few years and finally picked up a scale last year. 

http://www.leaderboard.com/swingwt.htm

I'll see if I can run a comparison between my scale and this calc. 

[IndyBonzo]

I posted this in CHA, but thought I would repost for OP fans.  I’m going to try OP in my hybrids, and if that works then in my FW woods.  Just picked up a 21 Apex 19° Hybrid with my fave ACCRA FX 3.0 shaft in hybrid mode at flex M1 (light senior).  These ACCRA shafts are made for consistent feel across driver-FW-hybrid and match to my Paradym OP driver shaft (although one notch stiffer M0 vs M1).  
 

Resistance may be futile. 

[geeman8]

I will add, after swinging my new PXG Black OPS with the LA Golf DJ shaft (stiff), it’s been very difficult to get the swing timed correctly with the Grafalloy. I can definitely feel the DJ shaft loading, so maybe I need to grab another Grafalloy in one flex stiffer?

[IndyBonzo]

On 4/16/2024 at 10:43 AM, Nick_D said:

How is everyone getting their swing weight? I've always used this online calculator as I don't have a scale and am curious how accurate it is....

So, this is probably not new to most here, but I read tips yesterday on how to calculate Swingweight accurately without an expensive Swingweight scale, but using one of the apps.  I intend to start doing this bc it sounds more accurate.

No change for me - use a good scale and get weight in grams of the entire club.

This is the change:  Find the approximate balance point using your finger or something else.  Put a small piece of tape on the underside (head down) of the club covering the approximate balance point.  Get a very sharp knife, put it in a vise, and find the exact balance point by balancing the club precisely on the knife’s edge.  Push down *just enough* to put a mark in the tape, but not mar the shaft.  Then take the shaft off the knife and measure in millimeters (more precise than inches) from the butt end to the knife mark and input data into calculator.

I had been balancing on the tip of a funnel and marking with a pen and it seemed less precise than this method described above.

Hope this helps someone. 
 

 

[HikingMike]

My suspicion is that my unwitting partial Otto Phlex was causing me to have a harder time finding the fairway. With more flex, the club head can be a bit more inconsistent at the top of the swing, and it introduces more variability at the point of impact. This is right when I start the downswing which is just before the point of highest hand speed. It can make it more difficult to bring everything into the correct position in the end. 
 

This comes from talking with a couple fitters who ended up fitting me into stiff and X-stiff flex, and it would make sense. I may not have the consistency needed to keep this regular flex setup reliably in the fairway. I already have enough issue with occasional hooks. 
 

Now there may be better shafts for this kind of thing, like the Graffalloy mentioned. You guys know better than I. And the rumors make it sound like Autoflex itself has some kind of counter to the issue. 
 

I will say it may be the reason why I can hit my driver pretty high, actually higher than my 3 wood off the tee (despite 5.5 degree difference ), and no problem with distance on good shots. Though the spin may be hampering me some shots. 
 

It’s neat to learn this idea. Awesome thread. 

[geeman8]

3 minutes ago, HikingMike said:

My suspicion is that my unwitting partial Otto Phlex was causing me to have a harder time finding the fairway. With more flex, the club head can be a bit more inconsistent at the top of the swing, and it introduces more variability at the point of impact. This is right when I start the downswing which is just before the point of highest hand speed. It can make it more difficult to bring everything into the correct position in the end. 
 

This comes from talking with a couple fitters who ended up fitting me into stiff and X-stiff flex, and it would make sense. I may not have the consistency needed to keep this regular flex setup reliably in the fairway. I already have enough issue with occasional hooks. 
 

Now there may be better shafts for this kind of thing, like the Graffalloy mentioned. You guys know better than I. And the rumors make it sound like Autoflex itself has some kind of counter to the issue. 
 

I will say it may be the reason why I can hit my driver pretty high, actually higher than my 3 wood off the tee (despite 5.5 degree difference ), and no problem with distance on good shots. Though the spin may be hampering me some shots. 
 

It’s neat to learn this idea. Awesome thread. 

I totally get what you’re saying, and I feel this variability more now that I have something I’ve actually been fit into. The guy that fit me was telling me that the Autoflex has the ability to stiffen up when coming through the ball. I don’t know how true this is, as I haven’t had the chance to swing one. Must be the hidden Korean tech haha

[HikingMike]

13 minutes ago, geeman8 said:

I totally get what you’re saying, and I feel this variability more now that I have something I’ve actually been fit into. The guy that fit me was telling me that the Autoflex has the ability to stiffen up when coming through the ball. I don’t know how true this is, as I haven’t had the chance to swing one. Must be the hidden Korean tech haha

“Hidden Korean Technology” has to be the funniest golf tech marketing speak I’ve ever heard of. I could run with that, lol.
 

I did not apply for the Autoflex test, though I definitely considered it. So on that note, is there a miniature Korean hidden in the shaft that makes adjustments on the fly? Haha. It’s like a golf shaft gnome. 
 

I’m reminded of the Rick & Morty where Rick has created an entire micro-universe that has evolved sentient people and conditioned them to walk on treadmills which powers their civilization, but also has a bit of excess energy generated which is used to basically power the car battery in his space ship. Could be a microverse in each shaft  

Or if it’s not a Korean person, but Korean tech… what makes the tech Korean? Is there something from Samsung in there? And how is it hidden? Can we find it? Or is it more secret than hidden? It’s a Korean Mysterean.

[geeman8]

I would truly like to swing an Autoflex in the near future. If they’ve somehow figured out how to maintain stability while allowing for flex I’d be willing to give it a go. I really liked my initial results with the Grafalloy. 

[azstu324]

14 hours ago, HikingMike said:

“Hidden Korean Technology” has to be the funniest golf tech marketing speak I’ve ever heard of. I could run with that, lol.
 

I did not apply for the Autoflex test, though I definitely considered it. So on that note, is there a miniature Korean hidden in the shaft that makes adjustments on the fly? Haha. It’s like a golf shaft gnome. 
 

I’m reminded of the Rick & Morty where Rick has created an entire micro-universe that has evolved sentient people and conditioned them to walk on treadmills which powers their civilization, but also has a bit of excess energy generated which is used to basically power the car battery in his space ship. Could be a microverse in each shaft  

Or if it’s not a Korean person, but Korean tech… what makes the tech Korean? Is there something from Samsung in there? And how is it hidden? Can we find it? Or is it more secret than hidden? It’s a Korean Mysterean.

To be completely honest.. and this is just me and y'all know I'm a total kook.. but I think the "secret hidden Korean technology" is more along in the "kung fu master, feel the shaft be the shaft, flow like water, find yourself to find the secret" sense.

 

[GolferXY]

On 9/29/2022 at 7:31 AM, azstu324 said:

Moral of this story: Autoflex = broccoli covered in cheese, bacon, and butter. 

 

Hmm. That IS food for thought. 

I'm at the balance point between stiff and regular flex in my driver (105mph swing speed) and I've tried regular flex off the tee, seems to give me less distance  and I spray it more.  Wondering how a regular shaft in a fairway or hybrid would react, especially out of the rough.

[cksurfdude]

9 hours ago, azstu324 said:

.. the "kung fu master, feel the shaft be the shaft, flow like water, find yourself to find the secret"

Hai! Sensei

I totally agree with you. Think of the rope drill - the old pros could snap a line and whack golf balls with it...

For us, I believe that .. the closer we get to keeping the club working on-plane and the closer we get to keeping an even smooth tempo throughout the swing .. the more success we can have with an O-P shaft...

...ommm ....

[Shrek74]

On 4/21/2024 at 6:03 PM, IndyBonzo said:

So, this is probably not new to most here, but I read tips yesterday on how to calculate Swingweight accurately without an expensive Swingweight scale, but using one of the apps.  I intend to start doing this bc it sounds more accurate.

No change for me - use a good scale and get weight in grams of the entire club.

This is the change:  Find the approximate balance point using your finger or something else.  Put a small piece of tape on the underside (head down) of the club covering the approximate balance point.  Get a very sharp knife, put it in a vise, and find the exact balance point by balancing the club precisely on the knife’s edge.  Push down *just enough* to put a mark in the tape, but not mar the shaft.  Then take the shaft off the knife and measure in millimeters (more precise than inches) from the butt end to the knife mark and input data into calculator.

I had been balancing on the tip of a funnel and marking with a pen and it seemed less precise than this method described above.

Hope this helps someone. 

I ran across this last night as I was flipping through my YT feed.

He actually uses the Leaderboard version along with the Value Golf one, although the VG version didn't work out very well.

[MuniGolfer]

Well, I think @azstu324 has found something truly great in the Maltby ul shaft, not that the other shafts have been slouches for me either. I FINALLY was able to get it out on the course. Sadly, it’s a course where I was only able to hit driver twice in 9 holes, but my two drives were 349 yards with a little breeze from behind and off the right, and 312 dead into said breeze teed down a touch. I seriously considered hitting driver on other holes I had no business doing so and would just have got myself into trouble. It was so much fun!

The combo with the new Callaway Chrome Tour ball is. That ball barely moves directionally for me, off the driver. Just arrow straight. I think I found my gamer OP.