Liv Golf Central Thread: Events and News

[fixyurdivot]

13 minutes ago, Middler said:

Could be. It would be good for viewers, shorter broadcasts, 4 hours/day or less and arguably more better shots density. OTOH it could be bad for ad revenue, the current format allows them to broadcast for more than 4 hours, since staggered starts provides play for 6-8 hours/day. I would think ad revenue will win the day… [Yes, we realize only majors broadcast for more than 4 hours/day]

Oh yeah, absolutely.  A format change that negatively impacts revenue from the broadcasts will likely never see the light of day.  As I stated, it was nice to watch rounds, start thru completion, in a commercial free, 5 hour period.  We'll see if that continues into next season.

[BIG STU]

On 7/8/2022 at 3:11 PM, LICC said:

This isn't about the John Deere. LIV purposely scheduled its events this year against weaker PGA Tour events to help get LIV going. Once it is established, it will have more events and look to compete against the better PGA Tour events. Norman has a vendetta against the PGA Tour and will look to attack it however he can. The PGA Tour has to push back strongly.

The sky must be falling for once I agree with you. But I have always given credit where credit is due and you nailed that one 100 %

[BIG STU]

23 hours ago, LICC said:

The R&A disinvited Greg Norman from the Open Champions dinner. The volleys continue …

One of my buds on Persimmon Golf Society that is from over there told me that the reason for them doing that was because they did not want him getting attention that would take away from The Open itself. And my regular scramble partner who is from over there but lives here now says the same thing. The Open is much revered over there like The Masters is to us Southern Boys

[Middler]

2 hours ago, BIG STU said:

One of my buds on Persimmon Golf Society that is from over there told me that the reason for them doing that was because they did not want him getting attention that would take away from The Open itself. And my regular scramble partner who is from over there but lives here now says the same thing. The Open is much revered over there like The Masters is to us Southern Boys

Re: The R&A disinvited Greg Norman from the Open Champions dinner.

“I’m disappointed,” Norman told Australian Golf Digest on Saturday. “I would have thought the R&A would have stayed above it all given their position in world golf. [It’s] petty, as all I have done is promote and grow the game golf golf globally, on and off the golf course, for more than four decades.”

What utter BS from Norman...

 

[Bang60]

3 hours ago, Middler said:

Re: The R&A disinvited Greg Norman from the Open Champions dinner.

“I’m disappointed,” Norman told Australian Golf Digest on Saturday. “I would have thought the R&A would have stayed above it all given their position in world golf. [It’s] petty, as all I have done is promote and grow the game golf golf globally, on and off the golf course, for more than four decades.”

What utter BS from Norman...

 

No disagree with you on Greg Norman, Golf went rampant in Australia when he became Number One. I lived in Sydney Australia from June 81 till July 2015 so I had a front row seat to the Aussie hysteria, if you were brave enough to say anything negative about Greg you'd likely get a knuckle sandwich or if lucky just got constantly heckled lol...

I'd say like alot of Number One Players you thought you'd have input into how your sport was run, but Americans are not going to let someone from another Planet/Country have a say on anything irrespective of whether it's good advice or not.

And I know exactly how that felt as a Kiwi living in Australia because they treated me in the same way lol, but I learned how to shut them up pretty quickly lol lol just by asking them how the Wantabies Wallabies their Rugby union team when the NZ Alblacks beat them 90% of the time...

[RickyBobby_PR]

1 hour ago, Bang60 said:

I'd say like alot of Number One Players you thought you'd have input into how your sport was run, but Americans are not going to let someone from another Planet/Country have a say on anything irrespective of whether it's good advice or not.

Has to be the silliest comment I’ve read on the internet today and there’s been some whoppers across social media.

it has nothing to do worth American vs non American. Greg Norman has burnt a lot of bridges in his day. His mouth is what got him in the persona non grata role 

[TBS]

On 7/9/2022 at 4:34 PM, fixyurdivot said:

Some of you seem to really have issue with the shotgun start format (or perhaps it's more just LIV bashing?)  Curious why you think this lessens the degree of difficulty?  I mean they all play the same holes.  It's rare to start courses on a par 3 but not a par 5 so, aside from that nuisance, no difference IMO.  As it pertains to fairness with playing conditions, shotguns address this issue - we've seen plenty of events this year along where tee times were night vs. day (PGA as as example).  Get a couple of favorable times and you pick up strokes on the field w/o swinging a club. As a viewer, it was nice watching the entire round in 5+ hours (pro's are slow regardless of tour/format ).  So I know this format is different than we're all used to, but there are some upsides.

I bet if LIV keeps rolling and gaining momentum, the PGA and other tours will start experimenting with this format.  

I agree what some of the others said that good courses have a flow to it that have difficult holes when the pressure is high. TPC Sawgrass, Augusta, Ocean Course, Southern Hills all come to mind. I don't think you're saying a major should have a shotgun start, though. 

I would be totally fine if a non-major or non-elevated event did shotgun start for Thrs/Fri then regular starts for the weekend. Most people who have a thrs/fri ticket are probably local and often entertaining for business. They come after lunch anyways. 

Shotgun starts are efficient but when I've watched LIV I found that although I was watching more golf shots (albeit no commercials) I was also missing a lot of shots. It seems it would be even easier to drop players from coverage and miss out on the drama of the day.

[LICC]

20 hours ago, BIG STU said:

One of my buds on Persimmon Golf Society that is from over there told me that the reason for them doing that was because they did not want him getting attention that would take away from The Open itself. And my regular scramble partner who is from over there but lives here now says the same thing. The Open is much revered over there like The Masters is to us Southern Boys

I totally believe that. They don't want the 150th Open at St. Andrews to get lost in the shuffle behind Norman and LIV.

[LICC]

20 hours ago, Middler said:

Re: The R&A disinvited Greg Norman from the Open Champions dinner.

“I’m disappointed,” Norman told Australian Golf Digest on Saturday. “I would have thought the R&A would have stayed above it all given their position in world golf. [It’s] petty, as all I have done is promote and grow the game golf golf globally, on and off the golf course, for more than four decades.”

What utter BS from Norman...

 

Norman has become amazingly unlikeable. All Greg Norman has done for four decades is promote Greg Norman.

[BIG STU]

6 minutes ago, LICC said:

I totally believe that. They don't want the 150th Open at St. Andrews to get lost in the shuffle behind Norman and LIV.

That is the exact way both parties explained it to me and I agree. It should be all about the golf and the traditions of it being the 150th without all the excess baggage. Yep the entire focus should be on the Golf and golf only

 

[LICC]

17 hours ago, Bang60 said:

No disagree with you on Greg Norman, Golf went rampant in Australia when he became Number One. I lived in Sydney Australia from June 81 till July 2015 so I had a front row seat to the Aussie hysteria, if you were brave enough to say anything negative about Greg you'd likely get a knuckle sandwich or if lucky just got constantly heckled lol...

I'd say like alot of Number One Players you thought you'd have input into how your sport was run, but Americans are not going to let someone from another Planet/Country have a say on anything irrespective of whether it's good advice or not.

And I know exactly how that felt as a Kiwi living in Australia because they treated me in the same way lol, but I learned how to shut them up pretty quickly lol lol just by asking them how the Wantabies Wallabies their Rugby union team when the NZ Alblacks beat them 90% of the time...

I guess the first way I responded to this knock on America wasn't good, so I'll try another way-

What input do you think should have been heeded and was ignored?

[fixyurdivot]

4 hours ago, TBS said:

I agree what some of the others said that good courses have a flow to it that have difficult holes when the pressure is high. TPC Sawgrass, Augusta, Ocean Course, Southern Hills all come to mind. I don't think you're saying a major should have a shotgun start, though. 

I would be totally fine if a non-major or non-elevated event did shotgun start for Thrs/Fri then regular starts for the weekend. Most people who have a thrs/fri ticket are probably local and often entertaining for business. They come after lunch anyways. 

Shotgun starts are efficient but when I've watched LIV I found that although I was watching more golf shots (albeit no commercials) I was also missing a lot of shots. It seems it would be even easier to drop players from coverage and miss out on the drama of the day.

I'm just saying that it's an interesting format change that isn't as bad as I thought.  As for the coverage, I noticed that on R3, they focused much more on the lead groups than the first two rounds.  Still spread it around well, but not like rounds 1 and 2. That's one thing about some of the current tours coverage that I don't like; lots of players I like to see but rarely do because their not usually near the lead... except for the first handful of holes .  

If one of these tours can figure out a way for viewers to select group coverage on demand, that would be a winner.

[LICC]

1 hour ago, fixyurdivot said:

I'm just saying that it's an interesting format change that isn't as bad as I thought.  As for the coverage, I noticed that on R3, they focused much more on the lead groups than the first two rounds.  Still spread it around well, but not like rounds 1 and 2. That's one thing about some of the current tours coverage that I don't like; lots of players I like to see but rarely do because their not usually near the lead... except for the first handful of holes .  

If one of these tours can figure out a way for viewers to select group coverage on demand, that would be a winner.

I would never want to see a shotgun start on the weekend. As TBS said, in early rounds before the cut maybe. They already have players start on the 10th at some tournaments. But never on the weekend. Some courses are designed to go in a certain order and finish a certain way. With the pressure of the last few holes of a tournament being decided, the course should be played the same by all the finishers.

[RickyBobby_PR]

37 minutes ago, LICC said:

I would never want to see a shotgun start on the weekend. As TBS said, in early rounds before the cut maybe. They already have players start on the 10th at some tournaments. But never on the weekend. Some courses are designed to go in a certain order and finish a certain way. With the pressure of the last few holes of a tournament being decided, the course should be played the same by all the finishers.

The PGA will use split tees on the weekend if weather is or has been an issue. The bottom of the leaderboard will go off the back and the top off the front 

[Bang60]

7 hours ago, LICC said:

I guess the first way I responded to this knock on America wasn't good, so I'll try another way-

What input do you think should have been heeded and was ignored?

Well to be honest Greg was always difficult and complained about alot of stuff but the guy thought he could do no wrong, I was never one of his followers and disagreed on half of what he said But? He did alot for Golf and I will defend him even though I'd not invite him home for dinner, as I believe it's the right thing to do. I just think that the guys that are unbelievable in the control they have over a golf ball is truly amazing, in particular when they used Persimmon woods unbelievable and I bet there's no one playing today that could hit the ball with Persimmon woods and get that control. Jack Arnie Tom just freaky what they could do, I have a Persimmon 1 wood I hit for fun sometimes and dismal at best lol...

[RickyBobby_PR]

15 minutes ago, Bang60 said:

Well to be honest Greg was always difficult and complained about alot of stuff but the guy thought he could do no wrong, I was never one of his followers and disagreed on half of what he said But? He did alot for Golf and I will defend him even though I'd not invite him home for dinner, as I believe it's the right thing to do. I just think that the guys that are unbelievable in the control they have over a golf ball is truly amazing, in particular when they used Persimmon woods unbelievable and I bet there's no one playing today that could hit the ball with Persimmon woods and get that control. Jack Arnie Tom just freaky what they could do, I have a Persimmon 1 wood I hit for fun sometimes and dismal at best lol...

Lots of words yet you didn’t answer the question.

[berkeleybob]

14 hours ago, fixyurdivot said:

If one of these tours can figure out a way for viewers to select group coverage on demand, that would be a winner.

That’s a pretty tall order. If there are 18 groups on the course, that means 18 sets of announcers, 18 technical directors, 18 replay editors, etc. I mean, if you have a supposed bottomless pit of a budget and the sky’s the limit, then sure, why not?

Or it’ll be more like watching C-SPAN-style coverage where you’re using your remote to switch channels. And that might be the way things go.

I haven’t watched much of the LIV coverage on YouTube, but if what you’re saying is happening, then it sounds like someone in charge of determining what makes good television, and this only natural. Viewers want to see the leaders and the chasers, not the also-rans.

[Bang60]

10 hours ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

Lots of words yet you didn’t answer the question.

Ooooops sorry I didn't understand....

[cnosil]

2 hours ago, berkeleybob said:

That’s a pretty tall order. If there are 18 groups on the course, that means 18 sets of announcers, 18 technical directors, 18 replay editors, etc. I mean, if you have a supposed bottomless pit of a budget and the sky’s the limit, then sure, why not?

Or it’ll be more like watching C-SPAN-style coverage where you’re using your remote to switch channels. And that might be the way things go.

IMO, Not really a tall order but the question is more about making it accessible to people since it would most likely be a pay service and do you really need to cover every group is only a handful,of people will watch a particular group.  To a lesser extent it happens week in and week out on the PGA tour.   If you watch the coverage on ESPN+ there are typically 2 or 3 feature groups and feature holes.  

[LICC]

2 hours ago, cnosil said:

IMO, Not really a tall order but the question is more about making it accessible to people since it would most likely be a pay service and do you really need to cover every group is only a handful,of people will watch a particular group.  To a lesser extent it happens week in and week out on the PGA tour.   If you watch the coverage on ESPN+ there are typically 2 or 3 feature groups and feature holes.  

There would need to be at least 5-6x the personnel and equipment that is currently resourced for tournaments. That is definitely a large expense and thus a tall order for what would be, as you say, no good reason.

[LICC]

Tiger Woods rips LIV and the LIV players:

“I believe it’s the right thing,” Woods said of Norman being blackballed from the Open this week. “The R&A obviously have their opinions and their rulings and their decision, Greg has done some things that I don’t think is in the best interest of our game, and we’re coming back to probably the most historic and traditional place in our sport.’’

 

“The players who have chosen to go to LIV and to play there, I disagree with it,’’ Woods said. “I think that what they’ve done is they’ve turned their back on what has allowed them to get to this position."

“What these players are doing for guaranteed money, what is the incentive to practice?’’ he said. “What is the incentive to go out there and earn it in the dirt? You’re just getting paid a lot of money up front and playing a few events and playing 54 holes. They’re playing blaring music and have all these atmospheres that are different.“

"I can understand 54 holes is almost like a mandate when you get to the Senior Tour. The guys are little bit older and a little more banged up. But when you’re at this young age and some of these kids – they really are kids who have gone from amateur golf into that organization – 72-hole tests are part of it."

“I just don’t see how that move is positive in the long term for a lot of these players, especially if the LIV organization doesn’t get world-ranking points and the major championships change their criteria for entering the events. It would be sad to see some of these young kids never get a chance to experience it and experience what we’ve got a chance to experience and walk these hallowed grounds and play in these championships.’’

[berkeleybob]

I suppose the question begs, if Tiger Woods had started his career playing on the LIV tour, would he have reached the same level as a player throughout his career?

[FrogginBullfish]

2 hours ago, berkeleybob said:

I suppose the question begs, if Tiger Woods had started his career playing on the LIV tour, would he have reached the same level as a player throughout his career?

I'm sorry but this is a completely pointless hypothetical question to ask. 

[Middler]

2 hours ago, berkeleybob said:

I suppose the question begs, if Tiger Woods had started his career playing on the LIV tour, would he have reached the same level as a player throughout his career?

 

5 minutes ago, FrogginBullfish said:

I'm sorry but this is a completely pointless hypothetical question to ask. 

I don’t know. If a young player starts out on the LIV tour and never qualifies/plays on the PGA tour, will he have a chance to become a bonafide golf great? We can’t know until we find out what OWGR, sponsors, majors and others do with LIV players…stay tuned.

[fixyurdivot]

15 hours ago, berkeleybob said:

I mean, if you have a supposed bottomless pit of a budget and the sky’s the limit, then sure, why not?

That issue appears to have been solved .  AI will take care of the rest and they might even offer options on which announcers you prefer. Until then, just let me watch the groups I want and I'll do the play-by-play.

[FrogginBullfish]

Bryson's just lost his Bridgestone partnership as a result of defecting to LIV...

[chisag]

5 hours ago, FrogginBullfish said:

I'm sorry but this is a completely pointless hypothetical question to ask. 

 

... Tiger did not play older kids as a jr because he (and Earl) wanted to learn how to not just win, but crush his opponents, something he could not do with older kids. Beat them, sure but not completely dominate them. Liv does not have the best talent in the world so it would hold no value for him. And Major wins was always his ultimate goal, not money. 

[Bang60]

1 hour ago, chisag said:

 

... Tiger did not play older kids as a jr because he (and Earl) wanted to learn how to not just win, but crush his opponents, something he could not do with older kids. Beat them, sure but not completely dominate them. Liv does not have the best talent in the world so it would hold no value for him. And Major wins was always his ultimate goal, not money. 

Developing yourself to be the best and picking your opponent is "Golf 101" as in lots of sports, plus the Top 10 golfers in the world can afford to stay with the PGA. I watched Jack's press conference and agree with his comments on Greg and Liv golf, they've been friends along time and will always be friends but they disagree on Liv golf.  So the rest can please them themselves, I think the players gone to Liv have realized they are unlikely to win on the PGA tour so let's take the cash...

[TBS]

Pretty controlled but strong responses regarding LIV from golf leaders at The Open this week.

All of the comments pushed back strongly against LIV as being bad for golf. No comments about Saudi money. All comments were reinforcing the meritocracy that the PGA tour is. To see the R&A say that is a pretty good signal that OWGR points will be difficult to get for LIV events.

[LICC]

40 minutes ago, TBS said:

Pretty controlled but strong responses regarding LIV from golf leaders at The Open this week.

All of the comments pushed back strongly against LIV as being bad for golf. No comments about Saudi money. All comments were reinforcing the meritocracy that the PGA tour is. To see the R&A say that is a pretty good signal that OWGR points will be difficult to get for LIV events.

I agree with your take. Slumbers comments hit LIV and Norman hard. He called out the "grow the game" nonsense from Norman and the LIV players.

https://golf.com/news/martin-slumbers-liv-golf-driven-money/