Questions regarding SPIN.....

[Tsecor]

When reading articles and watching videos on club fitting, the one thing that has always bothered me was the SPIN rhetoric. I never understood why this was such an important aspect of fitting, especially when spin #'s are gathered the second the ball is hit, but not when the ball lands....so i get the driver part of it...and to a certain extent long irons.....but the questions surround your scoring clubs....we see all these spin numbers generated by wedges and 7 irons but does anyone really know how much spin is left on the ball when it hits the green?

from what i gathered, balls lose up to 80% of its spin in a shot with a six second flight.....meaning you hit a wedge from 140 and its in the air for 6 seconds, your 9000 spin number is actually 1800 rpms when it lands.....when trying to fit for wedges and balls, how come this is never discussed?  Also, what spin rate around the green should we be looking for is 1800 relatively high? will 1800 rpms grab on hard greens the same way it does on softer greens?....there is probably close to no spin when chipping off the edge, so does this even matter?

How do you fit for a ball when you have no idea what the greens are like at any given course.....a Prov1 will act different on 30 different greens you play so do we concentrate too much on this #? 

Just curious about the whole ball fitting thing because im not sure most people understand what they need to be looking for, namely in scoring clubs....

 

any thoughts? 

[RickyBobby_PR]

Spin is just a piece of the puzzle, you have to consider launch, apex and descent angle. Launch and spin play a role in determine what the peak height is and how the ball reacts at that point. Will it ride the apex (proper spin). Will it balloon(too much spin for the launch). Will it drop out of the air (not enough spin)

What the ball is doing from all of that will determine the descent angle. This will determine what the ball does when it lands and when it comes to irons will it hold the green or not. Will it spin back or release too much.

Soin when the call lands isn’t talked about because fittings are based on the number mentioned above and those are the determine factors for what happens when the ball lands. 
 

 

[MacTourney]

Side story on spin from Jackie Burke Jr.   He said the best in almost all sports were those that could control the spin the best.  Crazy when you think about it, but he's probably right on the money.  Today's ball doesn't spin like balls used to back in the day when they could easily become UFOs on the links. 

[ChitownM2]

@RickyBobby_PR hit it on the head.  The spin imparted at contact isn't particularly important as it relates to the spin when it lands, but it dictates what happens to the ball flight.  Without enough spin the ball won't reach the proper height and your descent angle will be too shallow to hold a green....this is the problem I have with my swing.  

[Tsecor]

Spin is very important when it lands....all the ball fitters tell us so......

Launch is not important at all in my opinion.....trajectory is much more important....

but the questions still remain as in what spin rate should we be looking for? if we talk descent angles....what spin rates do you need with certain descent angles??  thats a very interesting question for me....

[GolfSpy_APH]

27 minutes ago, Tsecor said:

Spin is very important when it lands....all the ball fitters tell us so......

Launch is not important at all in my opinion.....trajectory is much more important....

but the questions still remain as in what spin rate should we be looking for? if we talk descent angles....what spin rates do you need with certain descent angles??  thats a very interesting question for me....

Loaded question with so many variables and possibilities. 

Will depend on each individual and not only that how a golfer prefers to play or where they play and what conditions. 

Maybe there is a chart somewhere.

That's all to not even get preferences for golf balls and more.

My head is spinning ... No pun intended ... So best of luck finding the answer. I think you could ask 100 ppl and get 99 different answers.

[cnosil]

You probably need to read articles on spin decay

https://www.tutelman.com/golf/ballflight/spinDecay.php

and how spin decay works in still air

https://pdfs.semanticscholar.org/595d/3d1f91e240cb47e153b8d0ef586b8caa67c4.pdf

 

lots of variables that will influence decay and each ball will be different.   While the spin at landing is important to how a ball reacts when it hits the green, we can start with spin at launch and interpret how the ball will react; probably the best we can easily determine unless high speed cameras are placed at the landing spot and we capture descent angle and actual spin.   

[RickyBobby_PR]

53 minutes ago, Tsecor said:

Spin is very important when it lands....all the ball fitters tell us so......

Launch is not important at all in my opinion.....trajectory is much more important....

but the questions still remain as in what spin rate should we be looking for? if we talk descent angles....what spin rates do you need with certain descent angles??  thats a very interesting question for me....

Launch is absolutely critical but so is spin, dynamic loft, aoa, face to path relationship.

they all determine what the ball does in the air. What the initial launch and spin does determines what it will do when it hits the ground.

The spin rate one should look for is what’s best for them. There is no one specific number. Someone with a higher launch will end less spin than someone with a low launch. Spin is what helps keep the ball in the air. 
 

descent angles are based on launch, spin, apex. There are ideal ranges based on swing speed, iirc golf.com posted an article or two on this, Ping has a chart for driver. But they don’t take into account face to path relationship. 
 

Howard jones dives into some of this in several threads and even shows how launch and spin are impacted by face contact location.

Will be curious to see if you dispute the posts you hit like on in your wrx thread on this topic that basically told you the samething as the posts in this thread before you disagreed with these ones.

[Tsecor]

17 minutes ago, GolfSpy_APH said:

Loaded question with so many variables and possibilities. 

Will depend on each individual and not only that how a golfer prefers to play or where they play and what conditions. 

Maybe there is a chart somewhere.

That's all to not even get preferences for golf balls and more.

My head is spinning ... No pun intended ... So best of luck finding the answer. I think you could ask 100 ppl and get 99 different answers.

i hear ya....and so true

I think "fitters"  need to progress away from launch angles and spin being recorded off the immediate hit and focus more on things discussed above. 

but if you are not hitting the ball semi straight and can get it up in the air,  im not sure any of this matters enough to make any significant impact

 

[Tsecor]

28 minutes ago, cnosil said:

You probably need to read articles on spin decay

https://www.tutelman.com/golf/ballflight/spinDecay.php

and how spin decay works in still air

https://pdfs.semanticscholar.org/595d/3d1f91e240cb47e153b8d0ef586b8caa67c4.pdf

 

lots of variables that will influence decay and each ball will be different.   While the spin at landing is important to how a ball reacts when it hits the green, we can start with spin at launch and interpret how the ball will react; probably the best we can easily determine unless high speed cameras are placed at the landing spot and we capture descent angle and actual spin.   

I saw this in the first article

 

A ball in flight loses something like 3.3 to 4 percent of its spin for each second it is in the air.
In the six seconds of hang time typical on the PGA Tour, the initial spin is reduced to between 78 and 82 percent of its initial spin.

Thats huge

[Hook DeLoft]

15 minutes ago, Tsecor said:

I saw this in the first article

 

A ball in flight loses something like 3.3 to 4 percent of its spin for each second it is in the air.
In the six seconds of hang time typical on the PGA Tour, the initial spin is reduced to between 78 and 82 percent of its initial spin.

Thats huge

It's a lot.  Obviously, the issue is how to measure spin in the last few feet before the ball hits the ground.  I can't imagine there would be any affordable tech that could do that. 

[Tsecor]

1 minute ago, Hook DeLoft said:

It's a lot.  Obviously, the issue is how to measure spin in the last few feet before the ball hits the ground.  I can't imagine there would be any affordable tech that could do that. 

I think this would be really cool to see

[Bradka13]

A ball in flight loses something like 3.3 to 4 percent of its spin for each second it is in the air.
In the six seconds of hang time typical on the PGA Tour, the initial spin is reduced to between 78 and 82 percent of its initial spin.

When I first read that I thought it said that a shot would lose between 78 to 82 percent of its initial spin in 6 seconds!  I had to read it a couple times to see what it was actually saying.

It seems reasonable to me that a shot beginning with 4000 RPM would land with 3120-3280 RPM.

 

[RickyBobby_PR]

3 hours ago, Tsecor said:

i hear ya....and so true

I think "fitters"  need to progress away from launch angles and spin being recorded off the immediate hit and focus more on things discussed above. 

but if you are not hitting the ball semi straight and can get it up in the air,  im not sure any of this matters enough to make any significant impact

 

Why do you think they need to get away from that? You can’t tell what the ball is going to do on the other end without know what it’s doing at the start and at it apex

pros look for the ball to be in a certain window when it leaves the club. Only way to acheive that is knowing the launch and spin of the ball when it leaves the club. 
 

Fittings are good for anyone regardless of hitting it straight or not. They length and loft, weight, head design the fitter can influence where the face contact happens and offset the how the face to path is affecting the ball, also changing the ball to one that helps control the spin whether too much or to little also benefits the not so straight swinger.

 

[ZackS]

The conditions on how a ball lands is definitely determined by the initial launch conditions as you can't get to the end without the beginning. There are obviouslly some other things that play into the conditions when it lands "wind, humidity, air density, etc" but when fitting there is no way to be able to account for all these at the same time. I know some of the monitors are able to set some of this and a good fitter should be settings these based on some averages for the area. Seeing more data on how the landing conditions are effected base on those other conditions would be interesting to see. But I think we are referring to fitting their goal is optimization and they are going to make suggestion base on that. As mentioned above individuals preferences can come into play when making a decision. I have rambled on but the last thing I will say is I think the reason land angle is so important in optimization is that if you are stopping the ball with land angle it will minimize the effect of the variables brought in by green conditions. 

[Tsecor]

19 hours ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

Why do you think they need to get away from that? You can’t tell what the ball is going to do on the other end without know what it’s doing at the start and at it apex

pros look for the ball to be in a certain window when it leaves the club. Only way to acheive that is knowing the launch and spin of the ball when it leaves the club. 
 

Fittings are good for anyone regardless of hitting it straight or not. They length and loft, weight, head design the fitter can influence where the face contact happens and offset the how the face to path is affecting the ball, also changing the ball to one that helps control the spin whether too much or to little also benefits the not so straight swinger.

 

Maybe not get fully away from that,  but maybe shift emphasis. Maybe I was to harsh with that statement.

pros look for the ball to be in a certain window when it leaves the club. Only way to acheive that is knowing the launch and spin of the ball when it leaves the club. 

This is trajectory.  The window they want to hit is really the most important part of their shot. If they are hitting the proper trajectory, they already know the spin # for the most part. 

I disagree fittings are good for everyone.  I know the industry basically has brainwashed everyone into thinking that way, but IMO, if you cannot hit a straight shot, and are duck hooking balls or banana slicing balls, a fitting means nothing.  LESSONS mean everything. Once you are able to find a fairway and get the ball up in the air and hit it somewhat straight, a fitting can help for sure, but for me.....i believe fittings are NOT the answer for anyone over a 15 HDCP. You get down into the 10 and lower area, fittings become much more effective. I know im alone in that thinking and its fine. I just disagree with the whole fitting culture for all golfers....especially by a high school kid at a PGA superstore 

And i know ill catch heck for this opinion, but its ok. 

[RickyBobby_PR]

27 minutes ago, Tsecor said:

This is trajectory.  The window they want to hit is really the most important part of their shot. If they are hitting the proper trajectory, they already know the spin # for the most part. 

Trajectory is determined by launch and spin.

 

28 minutes ago, Tsecor said:

disagree fittings are good for everyone.  I know the industry basically has brainwashed everyone into thinking that way, but IMO, if you cannot hit a straight shot, and are duck hooking balls or banana slicing balls, a fitting means nothing.  LESSONS mean everything

 Yes lessons are important to improve and anyone looking to improve should invest in lessons.

A poorly fit club will cause the golfer to have to work harder to try and hit whatever shot they are trying to execute. A properly fit club will allow the golfer to have a club that works with their swing and give them the equipment that would make attempting whatever shot easier. The golfer still has to execute the shot.

Poorly for equipment can cause the banana balls or duck hooks because the golfer is fighting the equipment, it’s not all just from bad swings.

33 minutes ago, Tsecor said:

believe fittings are NOT the answer for anyone over a 15 HDCP. You get down into the 10 and lower area, fittings become much more effective.

That’s not even close to the truth. There have been several surveys/studies done that indicate higher handicaps benefit more from fittings. People have a notion that these golfers don’t drive the club consistently but they actually do from a general delivery standpoint and what tends to vary is the face angle.

so every golfer can benefit. And with lower handicaps they tend to be able to find away to make a bad fitting club work for them more than a high handicap 

[Tsecor]

6 minutes ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

 

That’s not even close to the truth. There have been several surveys/studies done that indicate higher handicaps benefit more from fittings. People have a notion that these golfers don’t drive the club consistently but they actually do from a general delivery standpoint and what tends to vary is the face angle.

so every golfer can benefit. And with lower handicaps they tend to be able to find away to make a bad fitting club work for them more than a high handicap 

Like I said, its not a popular opinion but i know many people with 25 indexes who went for fittings and end up pissed because it didnt help. Our local club pro is one who tells his own clients to wait for a fitting until you can break 90.  His philosophy is, as you improve your mechanics change and the fitting you just had is rendered useless for the most part. Once you get to a certain level, the change in mechanics are minimal and fittings are more effective. I agree with his philosophy....and like i said i know the majority of the amateurs out there buy into all the repetitive rhetoric and thats fine as well.  if you get fit and shoot 120 but feel you are playing better, then great!  I would never tell another golfer NOT to get fit....but for me, i fall on the other side of this fence. I totally see your point though. 

[cnosil]

2 minutes ago, Tsecor said:

Like I said, its not a popular opinion but i know many people with 25 indexes who went for fittings and end up pissed because it didnt help. Our local club pro is one who tells his own clients to wait for a fitting until you can break 90.  His philosophy is, as you improve your mechanics change and the fitting you just had is rendered useless for the most part. Once you get to a certain level, the change in mechanics are minimal and fittings are more effective. I agree with his philosophy....and like i said i know the majority of the amateurs out there buy into all the repetitive rhetoric and thats fine as well.  if you get fit and shoot 120 but feel you are playing better, then great!  I would never tell another golfer NOT to get fit....but for me, i fall on the other side of this fence. I totally see your point though. 

I believe there are multiple types of fittings.  When people say fitting, they jump to the True Spec/CC type fitting and exotic shafts.  I don’t believe a beginner or casual golfer will benefit much.  Then there is the basic I store fitting that helps a player find clubs that they are able to hit somewhat effectively.  
 

when you say don’t get fit, you feel that a player is fine to walk in a store, grab a set of clubs and walk out?   No consideration for type of club, shaft, weight,  lie angle….the basics.   I’ll reference you question on picking a shaft for a new hybrid thread….just pick one, they are all fine. 

[Tsecor]

22 minutes ago, cnosil said:

I believe there are multiple types of fittings.  When people say fitting, they jump to the True Spec/CC type fitting and exotic shafts.  I don’t believe a beginner or casual golfer will benefit much.  Then there is the basic I store fitting that helps a player find clubs that they are able to hit somewhat effectively.  
 

when you say don’t get fit, you feel that a player is fine to walk in a store, grab a set of clubs and walk out?   No consideration for type of club, shaft, weight,  lie angle….the basics.   I’ll reference you question on picking a shaft for a new hybrid thread….just pick one, they are all fine. 

I think if you missed the last sentence.

 I would never tell another golfer NOT to get fit.

 

Ive bought sets of clubs off the shelf many times and ive also been fit by a pro

I was fit for my current T100-S irons and purchased my previous set of 712 CB's off the shelf......i shoot mid 70's with both....so.....not sure what the point is... i have been stuck in the mid 70's for the last 5 years....ive peaked.....fitting or not, im most likely not improving any longer....

tell me how fitting relates to scoring.....im really interested it that.....i have no idea about this direct correlation or how this can be quantified......

Edited May 5, 2023 by Tsecor

[RickyBobby_PR]

38 minutes ago, Tsecor said:

Like I said, its not a popular opinion but i know many people with 25 indexes who went for fittings and end up pissed because it didnt help. Our local club pro is one who tells his own clients to wait for a fitting until you can break 90.  His philosophy is, as you improve your mechanics change and the fitting you just had is rendered useless for the most part. Once you get to a certain level, the change in mechanics are minimal and fittings are more effective. I agree with his philosophy....and like i said i know the majority of the amateurs out there buy into all the repetitive rhetoric and thats fine as well.  if you get fit and shoot 120 but feel you are playing better, then great!  I would never tell another golfer NOT to get fit....but for me, i fall on the other side of this fence. I totally see your point though. 

No fitting is going to guarantee that a fit golf club is going to make one’s scores drop. The golfer still has to execute each shot from tee to green. The fitted club give the golfer the chance to make a good swing and helps reduce the penalty of a mishit on their bad swing. But just like we see week in and week out on the pga tour where the ball goes way right or way left that no club is going to prevent from happening.

A high handicap could break 90 just by improving pitching, chipping and putting. I play with several guys who shoot mid 80s to upper 70s because they have good short game, so again wait til you break 90 isn’t great advice either 

[Tsecor]

16 minutes ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

No fitting is going to guarantee that a fit golf club is going to make one’s scores drop. The golfer still has to execute each shot from tee to green. The fitted club give the golfer the chance to make a good swing and helps reduce the penalty of a mishit on their bad swing. But just like we see week in and week out on the pga tour where the ball goes way right or way left that no club is going to prevent from happening.

A high handicap could break 90 just by improving pitching, chipping and putting. I play with several guys who shoot mid 80s to upper 70s because they have good short game, so again wait til you break 90 isn’t great advice either 

yea, i hear ya.  people do what works for them and i guess that approach works for him and his clients.  

A guy shooting 95 may get to 89 that way but 120 scores....no way.....lesson lessons lessons...both on and off the course

good points all around tho. Thanks

 

[cnosil]

10 minutes ago, Tsecor said:

tell me how fitting relates to scoring.....im really interested it that.....i have no idea about this direct correlation or how this can be quantified......

We could ask this question about anything golf related.   How does a club, shaft, glove, shoe, ball, swing, etc. directly relate to scoring.   Like you said, it is difficult to quantify this; it isn’t a shot, hole, or round relevant evaluation. The only way it can be quantified is looking at scores over time and evaluating if your low scores are lower, you are having more low scores, your high scores are lower, or fewer high scores.   
 

interesting that you bought clubs without actually swinging them or evaluating any aspect of the club.   Not something I would do, especially after hitting all the various club configurations I do during most wanted testing.   Some just don’t work well for me, have inconsistent results, and I believe would raise my scoring.   Glad it worked for you, but I wouldn’t ever recommend a golfer; especially a beginner, walk into a store and buy a club without swinging the club and evaluating some level of performance. 

[Kenny B]

25 minutes ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

No fitting is going to guarantee that a fit golf club is going to make one’s scores drop. The golfer still has to execute each shot from tee to green. The fitted club give the golfer the chance to make a good swing and helps reduce the penalty of a mishit on their bad swing. But just like we see week in and week out on the pga tour where the ball goes way right or way left that no club is going to prevent from happening.

A high handicap could break 90 just by improving pitching, chipping and putting. I play with several guys who shoot mid 80s to upper 70s because they have good short game, so again wait til you break 90 isn’t great advice either 

Agreed!  I found it amazing how my scores dropped when I was a 20 after I spent a lot of time with short game and putting practice.  You have to put in the time to generate feel for those shots.  Pitch shots on the green somewhere, no 2-chips or 3-putts, and get out of bunkers in one shot.  BTW, I used to live in Maryland a long time ago, so I'm not one of the guys you play with.  

On full swings... if a player does not have a repeatable swing, getting fit for clubs will have minimal value IMO unless the player is way off "standard" specs for clubs... length and lie and maybe weight.  The focus should be on improving and not buying.

[RickyBobby_PR]

1 hour ago, Tsecor said:

yea, i hear ya.  people do what works for them and i guess that approach works for him and his clients.  

A guy shooting 95 may get to 89 that way but 120 scores....no way.....lesson lessons lessons...both on and off the course

good points all around tho. Thanks

 

I went from 120s to 90s purely from improving short game and better course management with no lessons. I didn’t take my first lesson until I had been playing tne game for close to 15 years.

As did several guys i played with when I first started the game. I learned from them and the better players in our group

46 minutes ago, Kenny B said:

On full swings... if a player does not have a repeatable swing, getting fit for clubs will have minimal value IMO unless the player is way off "standard" specs for clubs... length and lie and maybe weight.  The focus should be on improving and not buying.

People actually have repeatable swings. Many thing the wide dispersion of shots are due to inconsistent swings but thats not the case. Things like swing speed and aoa are going to be pretty consistent from swing to swing. But the face angle of the swing is going to change some between each swing and how well the golfer can make the compensation for where the face is. Those who can’t will usually see lots of right misses. Those who do better will see less of the right miss and some relatively straight shots. Also the ones better at it will suffer a two way miss when their timing is off

[Kenny B]

7 minutes ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

I went from 120s to 90s purely from improving short game and better course management with no lessons. I didn’t take my first lesson until I had been playing tne game for close to 15 years.

As did several guys i played with when I first started the game. I learned from them and the better players in our group

People actually have repeatable swings. Many thing the wide dispersion of shots are due to inconsistent swings but thats not the case. Things like swing speed and aoa are going to be pretty consistent from swing to swing. But the face angle of the swing is going to change some between each swing and how well the golfer can make the compensation for where the face is. Those who can’t will usually see lots of right misses. Those who do better will see less of the right miss and some relatively straight shots. Also the ones better at it will suffer a two way miss when their timing is off

Agree.  I think "repeatable" was a poor word choice; maybe "consistent" is better?  My swing is repeatable, but I am inconsistent is my ability to make proper ball contact.  I've always struggled with it; mostly straight, but my "misses" when I make them are fat and thin rather than left or right, although I can go right which is a hold over from my old slicing days.  However, my misses keep me in play but are penal for a short hitter.

[RickyBobby_PR]

4 minutes ago, Kenny B said:

Agree.  I think "repeatable" was a poor word choice; maybe "consistent" is better?  My swing is repeatable, but I am inconsistent is my ability to make proper ball contact.  I've always struggled with it; mostly straight, but my "misses" when I make them are fat and thin rather than left or right, although I can go right which is a hold over from my old slicing days.  However, my misses keep me in play but are penal for a short hitter.

Inconsistent yes but that’s again more so about swing faults than repeatability. The days or swing to swing that you can make the proper compensation for the fault the better your contact would be and wouldn’t prevent you or anyone from getting fit.

if you got on a lm you would see many of your numbers are the same from swing to swing. A good fitter is going to be able to see your better swing and your bad swing and thur questions like what’s your normal ball flight, what’s your normal miss, what are you trying to do they’ll fitter will be able to work thru different combos to get one into a set that optimizes the ball flight. And if the equipment is causing some of the issues

[Tsecor]

2 hours ago, cnosil said:

We could ask this question about anything golf related.   How does a club, shaft, glove, shoe, ball, swing, etc. directly relate to scoring.   Like you said, it is difficult to quantify this; it isn’t a shot, hole, or round relevant evaluation. The only way it can be quantified is looking at scores over time and evaluating if your low scores are lower, you are having more low scores, your high scores are lower, or fewer high scores.   
 

interesting that you bought clubs without actually swinging them or evaluating any aspect of the club.   Not something I would do, especially after hitting all the various club configurations I do during most wanted testing.   Some just don’t work well for me, have inconsistent results, and I believe would raise my scoring.   Glad it worked for you, but I wouldn’t ever recommend a golfer; especially a beginner, walk into a store and buy a club without swinging the club and evaluating some level of performance. 

a buddy of mine played CB's and i hit them a few times and loved them....so i bought them....

i figured id try to get fit by a pro since that is all the rage....i got fit onto the T100-S because these have more tech and are more "forgiving"......and I still shoot the same......still hit straight or a slight draw....still hit my wedges the same.....i love the T100-S and glad i bouht them but fitting didnt make one bit of difference for me......

Edited May 5, 2023 by Tsecor

[cnosil]

18 minutes ago, Tsecor said:

a buddy of mine played CB's and i hit them a few times and loved them....so i bought them....

i figured id try to get fit by a pro since that is all the rage....i got fit onto the T100-S because these have more tech and are more "forgiving"......and I still shoot the same......still hit straight or a slight draw....still hit my wedges the same.....i love the T100-S and glad i bouht them but fitting didnt make one bit of difference for me......

Definitely could be.   Another fitter might have put you in the CBs. As a lower handicap player, a fitting isn’t going to produce earth shattering results like it could for a higher handicap/beginner golfer.  You could potentially play with grossly misfit clubs and shoot the best score you have ever shot.   Unless we looked at detailed stats over hundreds of shots. I one could say if they helped or not…might have made you worse,  might have narrowed your dispersion circles by a foot, or nothing changed at all.     
 

People can make their own decisions about fitting and I totally get your perspective.  It is sometimes hard to justify the expense based on slight improvement and not really being able to concretely show improvement in every round of golf.   

[Tsecor]

25 minutes ago, cnosil said:

Definitely could be.   Another fitter might have put you in the CBs. As a lower handicap player, a fitting isn’t going to produce earth shattering results like it could for a higher handicap/beginner golfer.  You could potentially play with grossly misfit clubs and shoot the best score you have ever shot.   Unless we looked at detailed stats over hundreds of shots. I one could say if they helped or not…might have made you worse,  might have narrowed your dispersion circles by a foot, or nothing changed at all.     
 

People can make their own decisions about fitting and I totally get your perspective.  It is sometimes hard to justify the expense based on slight improvement and not really being able to concretely show improvement in every round of golf.   

no doubt and for a guy like me who has peaked and will NEVER shoot in the 60's, i feel its almost pointless. Im happy with how i play though. Its nothing competitive outside of our weekly league so im good with being a 75-78 player every week.