Should your handicap dictate your tee box selection?

[Erin B]

1 hour ago, Rob Person said:

Great feedback from everyone.  Currently I can play effectively from the 2 middle tee boxes and still have an enjoyable round, occasionally even a great round  (for me)

Another course I play uses the distance method for determining tee boxes. While my primary uses handicap. 

So let's say I miraculously start adding 30+ yards to my drives. But my handicap only adjusts by 2 points. Do I move back a tee, or rely on my handicap to dictate that?

To me, play where you enjoy playing and score the most consistent. The game is for our pleasure and our enjoyment. Otherwise we’d be on tour. Enjoy the non-combative funny!

Edited August 12 by Erin B

[JB2334]

2 hours ago, Rob Person said:

Great feedback from everyone.  Currently I can play effectively from the 2 middle tee boxes and still have an enjoyable round, occasionally even a great round  (for me)

Another course I play uses the distance method for determining tee boxes. While my primary uses handicap. 

So let's say I miraculously start adding 30+ yards to my drives. But my handicap only adjusts by 2 points. Do I move back a tee, or rely on my handicap to dictate that?

There's a reason that long drive champs don't play on Tour and Bryson still doesn't have a Green Jacket.

[BIG STU]

6 hours ago, Rob Person said:

Great feedback from everyone.  Currently I can play effectively from the 2 middle tee boxes and still have an enjoyable round, occasionally even a great round  (for me)

Another course I play uses the distance method for determining tee boxes. While my primary uses handicap. 

So let's say I miraculously start adding 30+ yards to my drives. But my handicap only adjusts by 2 points. Do I move back a tee, or rely on my handicap to dictate that?

That is the $60,000 question. We had a guy younger than I am move up to the Super Senior Tees. Now he was a decent player hovered around 8 to 10 from the Gold Senior tees. Now he outdrives me like 30 yards. But the last few months he has not scored well. I had him as Captain of my team 3 days in a row. I beat him all 3 days net and gross. I do not know what is going on with him. He claims he cannot compete any more from the Gold Tees. On the other hand his brother is over 70 and by our league rules can move up. But he cranks the ball and is a good player. Said he did not need to move up. He has an overall great game and hovers around 5 or 6. I think part of it is sibling rivalry being his brother is 5 years older than he is and can beat the pants off of him. I know there has been some grumbling around the league lately about him moving up but it is within the rules of our league. Me I could care less because I can only control what I do.

As far as I am concerned, I say play from where you want to and where you have fun. People especially around clubs and leagues are going to grumble. These days golf is fun for me. I long retired from mini tours and big money games. Now days golf is a fun outlet for me

[JAYER38]

From the standpoint of a high handicapper here... I've played round from the reds, from the whites(normal), and from the blues. The results shocked me honestly... From the Reds I'm usually a stroke better on par 4's and 1.5 strokes better on par 5's or longer 4's. Shorter holes are the same just about being more accurate. Now moving back tee boxes had less of an affect on my score which surprised me honestly but when you look at club distance it makes sense as scoring is harder than hitting the ball far.

High handicapper's are that because of mishits and ball out of play adding strokes and if you add distance to that its even easier to lose a ball.

[Hacker60521]

@Rob Person I still like thinking about where the drive places your next shot.

For me, I’m not a long ball hitter. So if I was able to add 30 yards to my drive, I’d stay where I am since my approach shots would probably range from 9I on down. It would still be challenging. I remember playing behind a lady’s foursome, and one of the players said “I’m playing from the 4s (our closest) today…. I just want to know what it feels like to get a par”. Can’t really fault the logic.

[Hacker60521]

22 minutes ago, JAYER38 said:

 

High handicapper's are that because of mishits and ball out of play adding strokes and if you add distance to that its even easier to lose a ball.

@JAYER38 you raise a great point. I was playing behind a couple of guys who had great swing speed and definitely could move the ball. They didn’t hit a single fairway, and spent more time looking for their balls 15-20 yards into the rough — on opposite sides of the course.

[DaveP043]

12 hours ago, Rob Person said:

So let's say I miraculously start adding 30+ yards to my drives. But my handicap only adjusts by 2 points. Do I move back a tee, or rely on my handicap to dictate that?

I'll echo what many have said, play the tees that you enjoy playing, with one caveat.  If you find that playing a longer set of tees makes you play appreciably slower, think really hard about moving forward one set.  Your enjoyment should NOT be a reason to inconvenience every single golfer who's following you.  You might find that it doesn't make a difference for you, or that the increased time is pretty small, if that's the case play where you want to play.

[JAYER38]

38 minutes ago, Hacker60521 said:

@JAYER38 you raise a great point. I was playing behind a couple of guys who had great swing speed and definitely could move the ball. They didn’t hit a single fairway, and spent more time looking for their balls 15-20 yards into the rough — on opposite sides of the course.

This is my point exactly! Honestly its not a which Tee box in my eyes. Tips or Reds that ball is headed for the woods haha. If you cant see it right away when you walk into the woods either pick up a random ball and go 1 for 1 or drop and keep it moving. No reason to hold everyone else up.

And to this again... I played yesterday and it took me 3 swings to get out of some serious rough and that moved me 20 yards. I felt like a fool but also I used it to learn as we all have to at some point.

[cnosil]

2 minutes ago, JAYER38 said:

And to this again... I played yesterday and it took me 3 swings to get out of some serious rough and that moved me 20 yards. I felt like a fool but also I used it to learn as we all have to at some point.

What were you trying to do that took you 3 swings?  What club were you using, what was the lie, and what was your goal?  
 

It ties to this thread because it gets into course management and bad course management could lead to a higher handicap.   Not to say that low handicap golfers make bad decisions but I would say that generally higher handicappers try to do more than they should and make hero type shots.  

[vandyland]

On 8/10/2024 at 9:40 AM, Rob Person said:

If i wanted a lower handicap, just for say, ego sake,  I could play from the front most tees and potentially score better, regularly. So why would I move back to tee boxes other than to prove I could do it?

I have not done a deep dive on this, but what rules govern where one should play from?  When registering for tournaments (non-professional) what is the standard tee box to use as a baseline to register my handicap?

In my experience it is the opposite. If you have reasonable distance, you will usually have a better differential from farther back. One bad shot penalizes you waaay more from the front tees because, especially if you are a lower hdcp, you end up being expected to shoot like 3-4 under. You can't make any mistakes. Also, if your putts aren't falling you are out of luck. If I wanted the lowest possible hdcp (which I don't) I would play as far back as I could handle (6,900 yds probably). If I wanted the highest hdcp possible (now we are talking) I would play the front tees because I generally just don't putt that well. 

Edited August 12 by vandyland

[DaveP043]

45 minutes ago, vandyland said:

In my experience it is the opposite. If you have reasonable distance, you will usually have a better differential from farther back. One bad shot penalizes you waaay more from the front tees because, especially if you are a lower hdcp, you end up being expected to shoot like 3-4 under. You can't make any mistakes. Also, if your putts aren't falling your are out of luck. If I wanted the lowest possible hdcp (which I don't) I would play as far back as I could handle (6,900 yds probably). If I wanted the highest hdcp possible (now we are talking) I would play the front tees because I generally just don't putt that well. 

Its been said a few times, the "penalty" for distance will vary from one player to the next.  The handicap system is set up to TRY to equalize things, but it can't apply equally to the myriad of skill sets out there.  But to your point, and the OP, he's not a low handicapper at a 17.  He's kind of new to the game, and is still learning how the handicap system works, learning that shooting lower scores from the forward tees won't necessarily give him a lower handicap.  My recommendation is to play whichever tees he enjoys, and let the handicap be what it is.  I absolutely hate the idea of a player choosing specific tees to try to influence his handicap.  

[bens197]

While I believe tees were designed to accommodate skill & distance there is an overlap related to self-awareness on the course. 
 

Even if golfers were to play tees deemed appropriate, the slow play is often a product of not knowing how to play ready golf and searching endlessly for a $1 top flite. 

[KC Golf]

On 8/10/2024 at 4:46 AM, Rob Person said:

Recent topic about moving to a different tee box has me pondering something. 

Does your handicap dictate your tee box selection?

Ultimately the goal is to shoot the best possible score. 

But I have scored in the same general mid to high 80s regardless of which tee box I play. (Except the tips) 

But are your scores against your handicap accurate? 

Some choose by total yardage of a course, some play based on driver distance capability,  and some play based on their age.  

 

What say you MGS?

Rob, you are not the average golfer.

I believe the key to tee box is average driving distance / accuracy.  If you can’t drive it consistently over 150 yards and generally in the fairway, you have no business playing from Blue.  Stick to White tees or something more forward than that on most courses.  Those golfers will be happier.  if you can drive it closer to 250+, then Blue or Black tees are usually good.

But this is not a hard or fast rule.

 

[JAYER38]

1 hour ago, cnosil said:

What were you trying to do that took you 3 swings?  What club were you using, what was the lie, and what was your goal?  
 

It ties to this thread because it gets into course management and bad course management could lead to a higher handicap.   Not to say that low handicap golfers make bad decisions but I would say that generally higher handicappers try to do more than they should and make hero type shots.  

I 100% agree and course management has lowered my scores since by not going for the "hero" shot as most will.

The above I mention from yesterday was a hybrid out of very thick and 6-8" tall rough along with wet/soggy conditions just trying to get the ball up and out as distance didn't matter. Never having been in that situation I was not sure on club choice nor how to approach it, so I went with my normal out of trouble club for up and out with some roll. This is why I say I learned something by the 3rd swing finally getting it out and more than a few inches of movement.

[cnosil]

47 minutes ago, JAYER38 said:

The above I mention from yesterday was a hybrid out of very thick and 6-8" tall rough along with wet/soggy conditions just trying to get the ball up and out as distance didn't matter. Never having been in that situation I was not sure on club choice nor how to approach it, so I went with my normal out of trouble club for up and out with some roll. This is why I say I learned something by the 3rd swing finally getting it out and more than a few inches of movement.

Exactly why I asked,   Based on your description it probably should have been a steeply hit wedge with the intent of just getting back to the fairway.  

[Kenny B]

On 8/10/2024 at 5:09 AM, Josh Parker said:

I would say no....

I agree with @GolfSpy_APH that just because someone is a scratch golfer, doesn't mean they have the distance.  When I first started playing golf, there was an 85-year-old man that I would play with in the "noon" group and he was a scratch golfer.  Played from the front tees and was, driver, wood, chip or putt par and sometimes birdie.  He only hit his driver 100+ yards but was so accurate that he shot even or better every round.  If he had played from the back tees, it would have been a much different score.

I agree with No as well.  I played from our Blue tees since 2014 until 2022 and got down to a 9 HCP but I didn’t hit the ball much over 210y, and couldn’t reach some par 4’s and one par 5 in regulation.  My short game was a big factor in my HCP; if That part of my game showed up, I could go low.  I moved up to our Whites because it was more fun to play the holes.  I’ve since lost more yards off the tee and there are still some difficult holes, but as long as play is fun, I’m happy.  When it’s not, I’ll move up again.

As others have said, it’s not easy to maintain a low HCP playing shorter tee boxes.  All facets of your game must be working well.  A few bad rounds of missed putts and your Index goes up.  Since I moved up to the White tees my Index has slowly risen 3 points, but I’m not playing to achieve a low HCP.  I’m more interested in playing a hole as good as I can; my HCP will be what it is.  Case in point… Saturday I played our Par 4 #3 hole in double bogey (I do that quite a bit, but bogey and an occasional par is more normal).  Sunday with a different pin position (harder, actually), I made a rare birdie.  That’s why I play.

I regularly play with guys that play from the Blues and hit the ball a long way that have HCP higher than mine.  They have fun playing from there and that’s fine.  They could move up, but they probably wouldn’t score any better and their HCP will go up.   They would still miss fairways and their lack of a good short game is still there.  However, they have better potential of getting a lower HCP than I have maintaining a low HCP.

[JAYER38]

1 hour ago, cnosil said:

Exactly why I asked,   Based on your description it probably should have been a steeply hit wedge with the intent of just getting back to the fairway.  

Why weren't you with me to save me those strokes haha

And sorry I didn't say it but it was my 4h for the first 2 attempts then I went with my 52* wedge. Needless to say my 4h was disgusting for no reason haha. So for anyone who see this just grab a PW or another club near that end of the bag and go!

[Rob Person]

7 hours ago, KC Golf said:

Rob, you are not the average golfer.

I believe the key to tee box is average driving distance / accuracy.  If you can’t drive it consistently over 150 yards and generally in the fairway, you have no business playing from Blue.  Stick to White tees or something more forward than that on most courses.  Those golfers will be happier.  if you can drive it closer to 250+, then Blue or Black tees are usually good.

But this is not a hard or fast rule.

 

I appreciate the sentiment,  but I can assure you, I am...  

[chisag]

... Like everything golf, I think it is complicated. A really low index player can move forward and still shoot their index adjusted by the course rating. They should hit more greens but still have plenty of 2 putts. They should also be able to move back and shoot their index adjusted by course rating because they have the ability to get up and down consistently with plenty of one putts. But it is very different rounds of golf and course management will be a huge factor. At scratch if I shoot par from the 2nd tees the rating of 70.8 turns it into a 73. If I shoot 3 under from the next tees up a rating of 68.3 turns it into a 73. Playing from the tips if I shoot 2 over the 73.2 turns it into a 73. 

... Otoh many mid index and plenty of higher index players will suffer more moving back because they do not have a consistent short game, hence their high index. And moving forward doesn't guarantee a lower score for the same reasons. Combined with longer tee shots can bring in trouble that isn't there from playing further back, so as others have said moving up doesn't necessarily mean lower scores.

... Ideally everyone should play the course which provides the best combination of challenge and reward. If you don't have a consistent game especially off the tee, it's hard to say what tees will give you that balance, so using an index to determine tees on an unfamiliar course is as good as any method. But none really take into account personal abilities so hopefully the player knows what best for their game. 

 

[LeftyKP]

I think there are a number of factors that can go into this decision. A lot of them were mentioned already, but some of the reasons may be

- driving distance

- playing partner

- trying to improve handicap (if you play similar)

- you want a different experience at a course you play a lot

- you are trying to work on different aspects of your game

I am at the stage where I am trying to improve my handicap and I score similar regardless of the tees, so why not choose the ones that will improve my handicap more. I will say though, the first time I played the tips at my local course it was a vastly different experience which was a refreshing change of pace.

[BIG STU]

18 hours ago, JAYER38 said:

I 100% agree and course management has lowered my scores since by not going for the "hero" shot as most will.

The above I mention from yesterday was a hybrid out of very thick and 6-8" tall rough along with wet/soggy conditions just trying to get the ball up and out as distance didn't matter. Never having been in that situation I was not sure on club choice nor how to approach it, so I went with my normal out of trouble club for up and out with some roll. This is why I say I learned something by the 3rd swing finally getting it out and more than a few inches of movement.

Golf is like everything else a consistent learning curve. Using the scenario, you presented it can vary from person to person. On that deal say a player has a higher SS than you do they could have maybe chopped it out with the hybrid. Me personally from my take on it would have had to use a 8 iron or a wedge and try to advance it best I could. In a nutshell it varies for different reasons for different folks for a variety of reasons. Part of the learning curve is find out what works for you to save strokes. One has to learn to play their own game and saving strokes. Like I always say there is more than one way to skin a cat and there is no one proper etched in stone way to play this game

[BIG STU]

8 hours ago, chisag said:

... Like everything golf, I think it is complicated. A really low index player can move forward and still shoot their index adjusted by the course rating. They should hit more greens but still have plenty of 2 putts. They should also be able to move back and shoot their index adjusted by course rating because they have the ability to get up and down consistently with plenty of one putts. But it is very different rounds of golf and course management will be a huge factor. At scratch if I shoot par from the 2nd tees the rating of 70.8 turns it into a 73. If I shoot 3 under from the next tees up a rating of 68.3 turns it into a 73. Playing from the tips if I shoot 2 over the 73.2 turns it into a 73. 

... Otoh many mid index and plenty of higher index players will suffer more moving back because they do not have a consistent short game, hence their high index. And moving forward doesn't guarantee a lower score for the same reasons. Combined with longer tee shots can bring in trouble that isn't there from playing further back, so as others have said moving up doesn't necessarily mean lower scores.

... Ideally everyone should play the course which provides the best combination of challenge and reward. If you don't have a consistent game especially off the tee, it's hard to say what tees will give you that balance, so using an index to determine tees on an unfamiliar course is as good as any method. But none really take into account personal abilities so hopefully the player knows what best for their game. 

 

A lot on that also has to do with how the course is set up and rated to begin with. In your case with the way I know you think it is all about putting the ball in "position alpha" from both the tee and the approach shot and using the proper club especially off the tee to achieve that. I had to learn that in the course of revamping my game. IMHO my home course needs to have a rating update. It has changed drastically condition wise from when it was last rated some 20 years ago when it was a nice resort course. On some holes you can hit a good tee shot in the fairway and get a funky bounce because of maintenance or lack of it and get into trouble. Our league uses the I cap system and the guy who runs it is a genius. He told me a long time ago if I ventured out more my handicap would drop playing other courses. I know the system is different than GHIN because some guys keep both and post scores on both and say the differential is 1 to 2 strokes. Actually with our rules we have to post anywhere we play. I think some guys do and some don't. I think some keep their handicap up deliberately.  Right now I play (except for the Par3) play my course because I shelled out the money up front to do so. I have like 3 more years left on my membership. When it starts to expire I will step back and look to see what my health is and my finances are and decide. I may drop out and do a traveling group thing which there are a bunch of here.

[MaxEntropy]

On 8/10/2024 at 10:47 AM, Josh Parker said:

If you want a handicap for ego sake..... fluff the ball, putt in leather is good and many other things can make a "glorified" handicap without moving up to front tees. 

I read an article a month-ish ago that said the best way to lower your handicap is to play harder courses or longer tees. I don't know that I necessarily agree with that, based on Dave's response, below, which makes perfect sense to me.

On 8/10/2024 at 11:04 AM, DaveP043 said:

When you shoot lower scores from shorter tees, your raw score gets "compared" to a lower Course Rating, so your handicap may not change at all.  Same when you play a longer set of tees, your (probably) higher score gets compared to a higher Course Rating.  Of course distance affects each player differently, so those generalities may not hold true for everyone

In general, though, I agree with most everyone else and don't think handicap should dictate tees. 20 years ago, I was around a 20 hc and was pretty long. I didn't want to play shorter tees that my handicap may have suggested at some courses. Was it partially because of ego? Sure. I also never played the tips. I always thought the tips were reserved for "really good golfers" (whatever that means) and I wasn't one of them.

I generally look at total yardage (~6500 seems a good number for me) and par 3 yardages to figure out where I want to play. I don't really want a steady diet of 200-yard par 3's, but it seems that many courses in our area get yardage by making long par 3's. Every now and then I will go further back, just for fun (or pain, depending on how I am hitting the ball). @DiscipleofPenick usually checks the yardage on Google Earth and almost none of the courses in our area play to the yardage on the card, so there is that factor, too. Arccos reports the "Actual Yardage Played" (I assume it just adds up the distance of each shot). The course we played a couple weeks ago said the yardage was 6652 from the tees we played. Arccos said it played 6288, even with some less-than-direct shots.

[Old New Golfer]

From my past in golf....I can't score unless the pressure is on. Just don't concentrate. So I played the blues..or even blacks. That's why I played Industry Hills. The pressure was always on.

Had a family thingy a day after Thanksgiving yearly. Our family against theirs. Best ball scramble. 8 of us out there. Good course in California City. First time I asked if we could play from the back. I got all this yelling and screaming. I said ok. First hole long par 4. I hit and immediately started crying: Stop! Stop! Don't go in the trap!....I was talking the trap in front of the green. Other family was S!ing their pants. Thank God it stopped about 30 yards from the trap. .... At 16th hole a par 3 about 190(?) as I remember years ago. You had to drop the ball on the green and stick it. I knew the hole well from the back tees. I said: I'm tired of this BS. I walked to the back with I think my 3 iron. Dropped it on the pin. Other family guy turned around and yelled: That's cheating!

Edited August 13 by Old New Golfer

[Hook DeLoft]

I think it depends on your age and how long you have been playing.  A higher speed, younger player with a high handicap needs to learn to hit all his clubs well.  For that player, I would say challenge yourself by playing from tees that fit well with your length off the tee.  After all, if you are hitting it a long ways into the trees shorter tees aren't going to improve your score.  For an older player who is losing distance, I say move up.  We old farts should be out there to have fun.  Of course, ultimately, I think you should play from whatever tees you want.  Once in a blue moon, when I am by myself and the course isn't busy, I play from the regular tees just for kicks but I wouldn't want a steady diet of that.  On the other hand, I sometimes play from the front tees (our course has 4 sets of tees) and it sure is fun to shoot lower than usual scores because of the shorter approach shots.  Two or three years ago I signed up for a senior golf league in the area.  We all played from the front tees.  I shot a 68 on one course where my previous low score had been a 78.  There were so many older guys who couldn't generate any speed at all that I felt like I was cheating.

 

[Hook DeLoft]

One of the formulas that has been suggested is using the distance you hit your 5 iron and multiplying that by 36 to get a ball park figure for the length of course you should play.  At this point in my golf life, my response to that is "what's a 5 iron?"

[chisag]

... I post this a lot but if you aren't posting an index, there is no reason you can't basically design your own course and play multiple tees. Ideally I want to play 6 hard holes, 6 average holes and 6 easy holes. I often play the tips on all par 3's and some shorter par 4's, then play the mens tees for the other par 4's and move up to the senior tees for the par 5's. I will also play straight mens or straight seniors to mix things up and keep the course fresh. At 7100yds the tips are just no fun for me at age 71 so I cap my distance at around 6600 and find 6200-6500 is my sweet spot. 

Edited August 13 by chisag

[Erin B]

46 minutes ago, chisag said:

... I post this a lot but if you aren't posting an index, there is no reason you can't basically design your own course and play multiple tees. Ideally I want to play 6 hard holes, 6 average holes and 6 easy holes. I often play the tips on all par 3's and some shorter par 4's, then play the mens tees for the other par 4's and move up to the senior tees for the par 5's. I will also play straight mens or straight seniors to mix things up and keep the course fresh. At 7100yds the tips are just no fun for me at age 71 so I cap my distance at around 6600 and find 6200-6500 is my sweet spot. 

Some courses are offering combo tees now. I see it a lot in Colorado and Nebraska. I like your thought process. A couple of years ago I mentioned it to my home course. They have a Red, White, and Blue tournament now. I think fundraising scrambles should also incorporate it into some of their fundraising tournaments. 

[Middler]

Handicap should not determine which tees you play, as others have already explained. There are several rules of thumb, the easiest ones are "just take the distance you hit your 5 iron and multiply it by 36" or "the average par 5 on the course in question should be twice the distance of your best drive distance" - e.g. if you drive 260 yds, par 5's should be 520 yards.

[Erin B]

Found this in the stuperweb, makes sense.