Positive AOA, low face impact... Driver Yips

[the great spinks]

I'm fighting out of a dark spot, the driver yips.  At one point my driving distance was 250-265 with an outlier in the 280's.  I took some lessons to get better and it all unraveled.  I've stopped lessons for the time being, but have access to a launch monitor and have found that I have a positive AoA, but I'm also hitting striking the ball low on the clubface.  Without a video at the moment, what in the world am I doing wrong?  

[BMart519]

What is your tee height like? My AoA is between 1-2 degrees up on most swings. When I tee it higher to get around 4 degrees AoA to pickup 10 yards, my face contact gets worse. If I tee the ball lower (1.75" - 2") it feels like I am coming in flatter along the ground but still hitting slightly up. This allows me to minimize low strikes on the face which is where it is easy to lose 20-40 yards on low launch and high spin balls. The ground almost feels like a guide for the bottom of the club to lock in impact on the top half of the club face. 

Centering your strike on the top half of the face will have higher launch and lower spin in general compared to the lower half. The lower spin helps reduce offline travel on misses. It allows me to "smooth" the ball out there 250-270 with much less penal misses from the wipey heel shot and keeps your path more neutral compared to hitting way up on it. 

I saw this exaggerated in a fitting when I hit a ball and the fitter said - best one of the day, 250 carry. I looked at the ball mark on my club face and the equator of the ball was just below the crown (1/4" from being skyed). For the past month, I've been focusing on this smooth thought and setup and Shot Scope has me just above a 5 handicap off the tee. My goal is to center my contact between the sweet spot and crown so that "low miss" is around the sweet spot or just below while setting the tee height so I would need to hit the ground or come in on a negative angle to sky the ball. 

[Shankster]

Plus one on the Tee Height.  It took me a while to find that perfect height, and it is much lower than I thought it would be.  I have not been on a monitor that tracks AoA. But I’m guessing I am hovering right around level maybe slightly up.

[RickyBobby_PR]

Other thing to look at is where is the ball positioned in relation to your front armpit 

[the great spinks]

On 8/5/2021 at 12:37 PM, BMart519 said:

What is your tee height like? My AoA is between 1-2 degrees up on most swings. When I tee it higher to get around 4 degrees AoA to pickup 10 yards, my face contact gets worse. If I tee the ball lower (1.75" - 2") it feels like I am coming in flatter along the ground but still hitting slightly up. This allows me to minimize low strikes on the face which is where it is easy to lose 20-40 yards on low launch and high spin balls. The ground almost feels like a guide for the bottom of the club to lock in impact on the top half of the club face. 

Centering your strike on the top half of the face will have higher launch and lower spin in general compared to the lower half. The lower spin helps reduce offline travel on misses. It allows me to "smooth" the ball out there 250-270 with much less penal misses from the wipey heel shot and keeps your path more neutral compared to hitting way up on it. 

I saw this exaggerated in a fitting when I hit a ball and the fitter said - best one of the day, 250 carry. I looked at the ball mark on my club face and the equator of the ball was just below the crown (1/4" from being skyed). For the past month, I've been focusing on this smooth thought and setup and Shot Scope has me just above a 5 handicap off the tee. My goal is to center my contact between the sweet spot and crown so that "low miss" is around the sweet spot or just below while setting the tee height so I would need to hit the ground or come in on a negative angle to sky the ball. 

Thank you, will absolutely work on this. 

On 8/5/2021 at 1:01 PM, Shankster said:

Plus one on the Tee Height.  It took me a while to find that perfect height, and it is much lower than I thought it would be.  I have not been on a monitor that tracks AoA. But I’m guessing I am hovering right around level maybe slightly up.

My guy I was getting lessons from from has me going incredibly high.  Defiantly could be an issue. 

On 8/5/2021 at 1:58 PM, RickyBobby_PR said:

Other thing to look at is where is the ball positioned in relation to your front armpit 

Slightly forward in relation to the armpit. 

[RickyBobby_PR]

26 minutes ago, the great spinks said:

Thank you, will absolutely work on this. 

My guy I was getting lessons from from has me going incredibly high.  Defiantly could be an issue. 

Slightly forward in relation to the armpit. 

That’s more than likely your cause. It’s too far forward. Have it off your armpit or logo on your shirt. Anywhere between there should raise contact point

[HeathS16]

8 hours ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

That’s more than likely your cause. It’s too far forward. Have it off your armpit or logo on your shirt. Anywhere between there should raise contact point

I gotta second this one for sure! I had the same issue earlier in the year and have since fixed the driver! An inch too far forward can really mess with strike. 

[RDel90]

An overlooked influence on AoA and subsequently face impact location is stance width. Sure a wider stance helps promote a more positive AoA, however that can happen at the sacrifice of balance which then leads to a bunch of other issues. So slightly narrower, just wide enough to maintain balance, and focus on getting sternum behind ball via side tilt. There is a great video by Steve Pratt Golf called how the power stance is killing your driver distance that explains this nicely.

So I'll throw stance width/side tilt in the mix that also needs to be factored in with the tee height and ball position mentioned previously.

 

[Kenny B]

I will also add that when you tee the ball high and a very positive AoA, the tendency is to drop the trail shoulder resulting in hits low on the club face.  I have this problem.  I have to focus on keeping the lead shoulder from coming up during the downswing.  It will come up; just not too early.

[Tom the Golf Nut]

On 8/15/2021 at 1:10 AM, HeathS16 said:

I gotta second this one for sure! I had the same issue earlier in the year and have since fixed the driver! An inch too far forward can really mess with strike. 

I'm going to agree on this too. A ball to far forward will be a drive wrecker for sure.

[BMart519]

14 hours ago, RDel90 said:

An overlooked influence on AoA and subsequently face impact location is stance width. Sure a wider stance helps promote a more positive AoA, however that can happen at the sacrifice of balance which then leads to a bunch of other issues. So slightly narrower, just wide enough to maintain balance, and focus on getting sternum behind ball via side tilt. There is a great video by Steve Pratt Golf called how the power stance is killing your driver distance that explains this nicely.

So I'll throw stance width/side tilt in the mix that also needs to be factored in with the tee height and ball position mentioned previously.

 

Most of that video is questionable, I haven't seen anyone take the position that a wider stance impedes balance (only reduces rotation when taken to the extreme). He makes conclusions about balance after standing on one leg from a wide and narrow stance which is not how you swing a golf club and is more suited to players that slide toward versus rotary style swings. Even if 90% of your weight is on one leg, the remaining 10% can keep you from falling over like he demonstrates. It also mentions 1 of 8 Long Drive competitors doing better with a narrower stance, how many was it worse for? Look at setup photos of current long drive competitors - most are wide including the one on the cover of his book. 

Here's an excerpt from his ebook made in 2018 on 50 tips for hitting your longest drivers:

If you strike it low on the face, the ball will launch low as the top of the club twists over the top of the bottom. This makes your drive launch low. However, the vertical curve, or the roll, will add extra backspin to keep your shot in the air longer. A high strike towards the crown of a driver will launch higher than normal, with lower spin. To reiterate, this won't cause your ball to curve off line, but it will lose a bit of distance overall.

He doesn't seem to know ball flight laws or its just worded poorly... Low face strikes stay in the air longer? High face strikes lose distance? Maybe compared to perfectly centered shots, it is generally accepted that toe-side and above center on a driver will be the longest shots because higher is lower spin and the toe moves faster than the heel for more ball speed. 

I agree that stance width is an important variable just like tee height and ball position. But it is unique for each player. I think many would agree that balance is better with a wider stance just like most sports. Baseball players don't use a hip width stance in the batters box or hockey players shooting a puck. 

[RDel90]

2 hours ago, BMart519 said:

Most of that video is questionable,

Understandable, not necessarily pointing towards ball flight and his explanation but his concept of width in general. I  know I can feel myself with restricted rotation/getting more armsy and can't finish in form with good balance when I get too wide. Narrowing stance and adjusting my side tilt definitely helped me. I was averaging 260 with a few 280 pops in my round today.