Sacks Parente Putters - 2023 Forum Review

[ACalling]

Update!

 

Playing around with this putter so far has been a great experience for me. I have been able to use it for a few rounds on course, including 18 holes the day after it arrived. At first, the loss of a sight line took some adjustment, but that is also because my main focus was on speed. Something that was discussed during my fitting was how to use the technology in their putters to help me with longer putts and lagging to more makeable distances. Specifically, this is of course their Ultra Low Balance Point, as well as the forward weighted tungsten in the putter head. 

The ULBP is something that you can feel right away, from the very first stroke. I have felt some pretty heavy putter heads before, but this is a bit different thanks to the carbon fiber shaft and the extra-light grip. What it creates is an easy pendulum swing feel that allows you to deliver the club head square to your line each time. 

The Tungsten in the head is all towards the front, on either side of the face. What Aki told me during the fitting is that these pieces of dense metal on either side of the aluminum club head, which is much lighter, increases the size of the sweet spot. To test this I held the putter in my hand, face up and took a golf ball and would bounce it off the face, and from end to end it would give me that same, soft feel on the face, and would bounce off it to the same height.

 

These reasons in particular are what is helping me with speed control the most, knowing that delivering the truest, most centered strike is not the most important thing allows me to focus more on speed and tempo, and the stability of the club allows me to keep the club on the right line. 

 

These photos are from that first day, had a few balls at 20 paces from the pin, the other two were just for distance reference. The second image is where they all ended up. It is a small sample size, but I think a good indication of how it helped me.

 

More recently I have just been at my putting mat every day rolling beauties like these:

 

Edited November 29, 2023 by ACalling

[MuniGolfer]

My putter finally arrived. Working through my first impressions and excited to get this thing going.

[revkev]

Second eye surgery in the books. Got to the practice green today. Rolled in 3 consecutive 10 footers right off the bat and then hit two beautiful 40 footers up the hill one to tap in the other to about 4 feet that I subsequently jarred. I’ve been practicing on the carpet almost daily the past few weeks. It was good to get on a real green to confirm what I’m seeing at home - it’s very easy to get the ball rolling on line at the intended speed with this putter. 

[revkev]

Got some practice work in yesterday. No putter, new eyes! 
 

Great combination. 

[JohnSmalls]

Great work so far fellas!  Interested to see how these compare to your prior gamers towards the end of the test.  Initial thoughts look like it will be a tight competition for bag space.

[cnosil]

Just got a delivery!

[cnosil]

Static picture wasn’t that impressive so here is the unboxing video.  There was no pre opening of the box, this was filmed as  opened the package.   
 

 

More pictures and initial impression write up coming soon. 

Edited December 4, 2023 by cnosil

[rkj427]

Looking forward to additional pictures and comments Chris, especially seeing you also have the DRAC to play with as well. 

[Josh Parker]

29 minutes ago, cnosil said:

Static picture wasn’t that impressive so here is the unboxing video.  There was no pre opening of the box, this was filmed as  opened the package.   
 

 

More pictures and initial impression write up coming soon. 

The Drac looks pretty slick!

[cnosil]

Initial Impressions

Putter(s) arrived today and I posted the unboxing video above.  I took a more in depth look at each putter this evening and this post is to provide my initial thoughts.   As of now I have only carpet putted a little so there won't be any performance information. 

I guess; at least initially, I have two putters to review as part of this review.   I was fit for the MC 3 strip mallet but was also told that a center shafted DRAC mallet would soon be available and would also be sent one for evaluation.   Don't look for info on the Drac, it isn't on their website.   I'll get into size further down in the review but the below photo gives you a rough idea of how big they are compared to a Cameron Futura 5W.

Let’s start with some of the common items:

• Grip – Both putters have the flat grip which is slightly larger than a Superstroke 1.0 grip.  From a feel perspective, it has a slightly spongier feel than a Superstroke grip.   Non tapered. 

 

• Shaft – Obviously one of the big technological aspects of the putter.   Extremely lightweight and after holding and trying the shaft I would say if falls on the more flexible/softer side than the very firm “stability” type shafts that are on the market.  
• Assembly – Both putters are well made and have a high end look and feel.   The only negative was that the Drac had some epoxy residue along the length of the shaft from the assembler’s fingers.  The shaft has a matte finish and in the photo below you can see some of the shiny areas; which is the epoxy.

• Ball Marker/Certificate of Authenticity - The putter comes with a certificate of authenticity and a dated ball marker.  Honestly,  been looking at the ball marker and haven't figured out how to get it out of the case;  wondering if it is supposed to remain in the case

• Ultra Low Balance Point (ULBP) - You've seen the pictures so I won't post more.   The ultra light grip and shaft move the balance point of the club to within 5 inches from the sole.  This design is intended to help improve the players stroke.   I typically have set my putters up to be heavier in the grip end so this is a different feel for me.  Just moving the putter back and forth and hitting some putts I think I like the setup.  Initial impression is that it might result in a more consistent path and that the higher swingweight doesn't feel odd.  This aspect of the putter and how it actually impacts the stroke will be the determining factor on whether it stays in the bag or not.  

MC 3 stripe mallet 

• This mallet is their mid-size mallet and, in my opinion, it is pretty big and I’m not sure I would want to try the large mallet. 
• What I like is that on both putters the face is narrower than the widest part of the putter which gives the illusion that the putter is shorter from heel to toe. 
• The face on the MC3 has milled grooves.  No discussion on the performance aspect of these grooves was provided.   Aki did mention that on some of the other putters there was an insert with grooves that was designed to help move the weight to the perimeter.
• I like the alignment stripes and initially the MC3 may be a little easier to setup. 
• From a sound perspective, the MC is slightly muted compared to the Drac but still clicky.   The below clip should give you an idea of impact sound.

 

• As I look at the website and @billpierce putter; It is interesting that the bottom of these putters is different.   Looking at the other images that were  posted and the Sacks Parente website it appears the lettering is painted on and mine has what  I will say is firmly affixed thick decals in the voids.  
• Headcover - I feel like the headcover is a little small for the putter and isn't necessarily designed for a center shafted putter.   Hoping it stretches a little.   Magnets seem strong.

 

The Drac

• the putter same width but slightly longer than the MC. I am guessing that because of the cutout in the rear it visually appears to be slightly smaller than it actually is.  
• The sound of the Drac is slightly more clicky/higher pitched than the MC.   The below clip should give you an idea of impact sound.

 

• The face on the Drac is a simple milled face similar to what you would see on a Cameron putter.
• The milling marks on this putter are very noticeable and are essentially covering the entire putter.  
• There are no alignment aids on this version of the Drac.  
• From a feel perspective, there doesn’t seem to be a lot of differentiation between center and off center hits from a feel or sound perspective.  It also appears to resist twisting a little more that the MC 3 stripe on offcenter strikes.
• Headcover - I feel like the headcover is a little small for the putter and isn't necessarily designed for a center shafted putter.   Hoping it stretches a little.   Magnets seem strong.

 

 

Putter weights:  As would be expected the ULBP build of these putters results in a very high swingweight.  But with putters swingweight isn't that big of a consideration.   I believe looking at things like weight distribution and total weight are more important.  I personally am a fan of lighter putters, but I was surprised by the total weights for the Sacks Parente putters; they don't feel this light.

• Taylor Made TM-180 - 520gr
• Seemore mfgp2 - 543gr
• Cameron Futura 5W -  542gr
• Sacks Parente MC3 - 451gr
• Sacks Parente Drac - 461gr

 

Up next will be some initial testing with my gamer and the Sacks Parente putter so stay tuned.   And if you have questions or input on what you would like to see in this review make sure you post them!

 

 

[billpierce]

Beating Mother Nature - Managed to sneak in some on course play:

 

A quick update for everyone on testing the new putter.  Basically, with all of the cold and rain, it has been a challenge to get out on course for a real test run!  Then Viola a 51-degree sunny day! (Yes, I said 51 degrees Farenheit for you Florida folks)

 

First let me start with warmups and top ten observations:

1. This new putter has me a little more "over the ball" which I think is helping me visually.

2. I can't repeat my old armbar with the new putter the same way, so the grip change is taking some getting used to as I want to 'keep' my triangle for speed and accuracy.

3. My path is more of an ARC feel with the new putter, and it feels as if it squares itself even if I am trying to be offline; I need to explore this further!  I was purposely trying to push right like my old putting style major miss and it really seems to help square.  

4. I was pulling across the ball with my PING putter and I think the new grip and style has helped to end that issue.

5. Still working on Putter Transition - "Not having such a violent transtition" - the putter feels light to me, so this is taking effort on my part.

6. The new Putter head is heavy (due to tech and weighting to create the ULBP) but feels light during the stroke to me. Perhaps the armbar mode made everything stiffer, where the new grip and putter feels a bit more fluid.

7. Gravity really seems to have a play, which is taking some getting used to for me. The putter really wants to accelerate for me as the TEMPO is super easy compared to PING.

8. There is off-center hit forgiveness that I can tell from early testing.

9. I don't have any pop-ups from current tests, which on rough New England greens is a big deal!

10. I expected the center shafted putter design to cause less arc, but visually I see more!  Need to dig in here a bit - could be grip change to Japanese style grip?

The actual tests:

Reminder - I selected the Star Drill as a consistent week to week / Putter to Putter testing process.  I hope to keep things apples to apples and not have a lot of variability that could inject bias, mechanics, or even exacerbate my faults/strengths to results.  Simply put - how can I give you the reader the average results taking out me as a variable to extent possible!  (Perhaps a fallacy)

Here is a picture of the Drill:

 

My star drill setup was green balls are new Sachs Parente putter, white balls are old Ping putter.  I leveraged 3 balls across each axis, each 3 feet apart for a total distance of 9 putting feet for the max putt.  (I reserve the right to extend this drill farther, once I see my style and results be consistent).

 

So, get to the results... inquiring minds want to know:

First some data!  I averaged slightly better results on sinking putts AND a lot better on dispersion distance with the Sachs Parente vs PING. Described below is an example of one part of the star drill and the results of that effort. As you can see, 'things' were close across Putters and the Putter results:

My best series of scoring across all Legs of the star drill was towards 12 o'clock and uphill. The following is 4 "series of putts" in that 12 o'clock direction, 2 Series with Sachs Parente and 2 Series with Ping (12 balls total putted each series for a total 48 putts) of one leg of the star drill, all slightly uphill towards the pin:

PING - 9 putts sunk first series attempted on this leg of the drill, and then 9 putts sunk second series and a total of 8 feet 5 inches of dispersion across both series.

Sachs Parente - 10 putts sunk first series, 8 putts the second series and 6 feet 2 inches of dispersion.

This was the last series of putts, with all four legs of the star equal to 192 putts total!  For this series, of the 48 putts, the percent sunk for me seems very high. In addition, I only missed a few (3) right the whole series across both putters, so my 'usual miss' was not showing up harshly today! 36 of 48 is a solid first series as comparison (I expected to do much worse perhaps to level and easy of a green)

Hopefully, you could follow the above activity (that was one part of the entire star drill). Here is a visual of the results of this one leg of the star drill with GREEN balls- Sachs Parente and WHITE balls - Ping:

 

The Net Results:

 

The putts made and dispersion were both slightly better with Sachs Parente Putter vs Ping:

1. 59% putts made with Ping versus 61% with Sachs Parente

2. The eye opener was about 17% less dispersion with Sachs Parente versus Ping!

I scored backwards of where I expected, thinking I would struggle with the new Putter.  Let's see if these results hold true over time.

Let me know what you all think! Happy to clarify and expand as needed.

 

 

Edited January 5 by billpierce
Updated testing with new gate drill and longer distance putting

[GolfSpy_BEN]

8 minutes ago, billpierce said:

Beating Mother Nature - Managed to sneak in some on course play:

 

A quick update for everyone on testing the new putter.  Basically, with all of the cold and rain, it has been a challenge to get out on course for a real test run!  Then Viola a 51-degree sunny day! (Yes, I said 51 degrees Farenheit for you Florida folks)

 

First let me start with warmups and top ten observations:

1. This new putter has me a little more over the ball which I think is helping me visually.

2. I cannot armbar the new putter the same way, so the grip change is taking some getting used to as I want to  'keep' my triangle for speed and accuracy.

3. My path is more of an ARC feel with the new putter and it feels as if it squares itself even if I am trying to be offline - I need to explore this further!  I was purposely trying to push right like my old putting style major miss and it really seems to help square.  

4. I was pulling across the ball with my PING putter and I think the new grip and style has helped to end that issue.

5. Still working on Putter Transition - "Not having such a violent transtition" - the putter feels light to me, so this is taking effort on my part.

6. The Putter head is heavy but feels light during the stroke to me. Perhaps the armbar mode made everything more stiff, but it also feels a bit more fluid.

7. Gravity really seems to have a play, which is taking some getting used to for me. The putter really wants to accelerate for me as the TEMPO is super easy compared to PING.

8. There is off-center hit forgiveness that I can tell from early testing.

9. I dont have any pop-ups from current tests, which on rough new england greens is a big deal!

10. I expected the center shaft to cause less arc, but visually I see more!  Need to dig in here a bit - could be grip change to japanese style grip?

The actual tests:

Reminder - I selected the Star Drill as a consistent week to week / Putter to Putter testing process.  I hope to keep things apples to apples and not have a lot of variability that cna inject bias, mechanics, or even exacerbate my faults/strengths to results.  Simply put - how can I give you the reader the average results taking out me as a variable to extent possible!  (Perhaps a fallacy)

Here is a picture of the Drill:

 

My setup was Green balls are new Sachs Parente putter, white balls are old PING putter.  3 balls across each axis, each 3 feet apart for a total distance of 9 feet max putt.  (I reserve the right to extend this drill farther, once I see my style and results be consistent).

 

So, get to the results... inquiring minds want to know:

First some data!  I averaged slightly better results on sinking putts AND a lot better on dispersion distance with the Sachs Parente vs PING. Described below is an example of one part of the star drill and the results of that effort. As you can see, 'things' were close across Putters and the Putter results:

My best series of scoring across all Legs of the star drill was towards 12 o'clock and uphill. The following is 4 "series of putts" in that 12 o'clock direction, 2 Series with Sachs Parente and 2 Series with Ping (12 balls total putted each series for a total 48 putts) of one leg of the star drill, all slightly uphill towards the pin:

PING - 9 putts sunk first series attempted on this leg of the drill, and then 9 putts sunk second series and a total of 8 feet 5 inches of dispersion across both series.

Sachs Parente - 10 putts sunk first series, 8 putts the second series and 6 feet 2 inches of dispersion.

This was the last Putts of 192 total!  For this series of 48 the percent sunk for me was very high - Only missed a few (3) right the whole series across both putters, so my usual miss was not showing up harshly today! 36 of 48 is a solid first series as comparison (I expected to do much worse perhaps to level and easy of a green)

Hoepfully, you could follow the above activity (that was one part of the entire star drill). Here is a visual of the results of this one leg of the star drill with GREEN balls- Sachs Parente and WHITE balls - Ping:

 

The Net Results:

 

The putts made and dispersion were both slightly better with Sachs Parente Putter vs Ping:

1. 59% putts made with Ping versus 61% with Sachs Parente

2. The eye opener was about 17% less dispersion with Sachs Parente versus Ping!

I scored backwards of where I expected, thinking I would struggle with the new Putter.  Let's see if these results hold true over time.

Let me know what you all think! Happy to clarify and expand as needed.

 

 

Nice work

[Willie T]

36 minutes ago, billpierce said:

2. The eye opener was about 17% less dispersion with Sachs Parente versus Ping!

That’s a real biggie - distance/dispersion control is key.  That comebacker from 2’ or less is much easier than 4’ or more.  Sounds like the testing putter has you all dialed in! 

[billpierce]

2 minutes ago, Willie T said:

That’s a real biggie - distance/dispersion control is key.  That comebacker from 2’ or less is much easier than 4’ or more.  Sounds like the testing putter has you all dialed in! 

Remember its a very controlled test.  To your point - as soon as I get a break again in weather I will try a more realistic chipping and putting combination just to see if it is as dialed in dispersion-wise!

[ACalling]

Another Update!

Last week we had an anomaly in CT with 50 degree weather in December. It seems like my fellow tester and fellow New Englander @billpierce also took advantage of some strange (relatively) warm weather and hit the course. I am lucky to live within a few minutes drive to some courses and hopped out on my local executive this day since I wanted to play 18 but didn't have the most amount of time. This is a putter review anyways so getting on as many greens as possible was the key. 

 

I started out on the practice green for some drills and warm up before beginning my round.

My biggest putting issue before this test and getting the fitting done was lag putting on longer (25+ft) putts. Too often I would have a 5+ footer remaining and that was adding strokes. Since I have been in my basement mostly for practice it was a hard thing to improve on until this day. I did a couple rounds at distances around 30 feet and 40 feet across the flattest part of the green I could find. The middle picture below is from 30 feet out, the furthest away was my first putt, but as you can see the rest were put well within tap-in range. From 40 feet the dispersion was of course larger, but 4 out of 7 at a makeable distance and the others just outside of a good lag distance. 

 

 

Out on the course though things went very well. Speed was great all day. Only had one second putt that was outside of 3 feet and ended up making that one. Zero 3-putts on the whole round and ended up with a total of 31 putts for the 18 holes. For reference this season I was averaging around 35-36 putts per round, with some lower to 31/32 or up at 37 or 38 depending on difficulty of course and my familiarity. But this round felt different where I was not faced with those 4 and 5 footers nearly as much. 

I enjoyed playing the short course as well since after not playing outside for a few weeks my irons still felt okay but my driver and 3 wood swings felt like garbage. Even in those rounds you can still end up having some fun, like this:

Brutal.

But then it can all come down to a par putt on #18 and...

What a game...that one will get me back out again.

 

Hoping for some warm weather again soon as I have been enjoying the process and the club a lot lately. 

[revkev]

Got some more putting practice in after work Monday evening.

 

Love the look and feel of this putter.

Results aren’t bad, either.  Assuming I get cleared by my ophthalmologist tomorrow I’m going to play Friday. 
 

I seemingly can’t miss on short putts. One of the things I truly intend to test, soon is my make percentage from 8 feet.  At my fitting Aki told me that he believed a single digit handicapper who regularly plays the same course should have a better make percentage than a touring pro in tournaments. 8 feet is their 50/50 point. Whenever I’ve checked mine has been around 6.5. 
 

We shall see 

Edited December 6, 2023 by revkev

[billpierce]

Looks like dispersion was much better for you as well?   Maybe that is the stroke saver!

Edited December 8, 2023 by billpierce
typo - strike versus STROKE a big difference

[cnosil]

Putter Testing (Aim and 10' putts)

Now that the putters are here it is time to start diving into some testing and seeing how these things perform.   We all know manufacturers make claims about their product and Sacks Parente is no exception.   From their website:

• The only putters in golf that naturally improve your stroke
• Better aim
• No twisting
• Square impact

They had The Golf Lab to evaluate their putters and based on that test the website states:

• Sacks Parente putters were empirically proven to make more putts by being naturally easier to align, providing a more consistent stroke / speed control, better club path, and squaring the putter at impact.

You can read more about the study here:  https://sacksparente.com/golf-lab-study

I also found the following video that kind of shows how The Golf Lab setup the test (it can be viewed without a facebook account):  https://www.facebook.com/watch/?v=621875265044674

After reviewing the published information about their testing protocols  I attempted to mimic the test to see if I saw the claimed improvements.  While I don’t have a Gears system I do have an ExPutt simulator that lets me set green speed (I set it to 9) and putt distance (10’ since I couldn’t set it to 8’ like the study) and will measure ball speed, path, and face angle.  

To assess aim, I used a Seemore triangulator, fake hole, and a ruler.  I setup and aimed the putter at the hole.  I had my wife place the triangulator against the face and I pulled the string tight to see where it intersected the yardstick.  in putting aim doesn't need to be directly at the hole; Tiger was measured at 2* right of of target line, what is important is consistency.

 

The question many have is that while I may see improvements, what classifies as good?  I’ll utilize the following tweet from Sasho Mackenzie to evaluate my putting ability: 

In this tweet we see that Sasho indicates that what really matters in putting is speed control and face angle; factors like impact location and path are basically irrelevant. Depending on source, face angle controls 85-95% of the putts direction.   With the straight 10 foot putt if we were pro level putting we would make 90ish percent of the putts.   

For more detail on face angle refer to the Quintic Site:  https://www.quinticballroll.com/Quintic_Ball_Roll_Face_Angle.html   The key piece of information from that page is:

• A putter face that is 2 degrees open at impact will miss the hole from 5 feet!
• For a putt to go in at 8 feet the angle of the face needs to less than 1 degree open or closed.
• Increase the distance to 15 feet and the putter face needs to less than 0.5 of a degree open or closed. 

Given the above, let’s dig into how I performed with my TaylorMade TM0-180, Sacks Parente MC 3 stripe, and Drac.

Aim

The following chart shows where I aimed from 8 feet to a hole.   Positive numbers are to the right and negative numbers are to the left of the center of the hole.  All the putters were aimed within the boundaries of the hole but the edge goes to the Sack Parente MC 3 Stripe.   The long lines on the putter definitely helped setup the putter square and setup myself up square with the putter.   

 

Performance at 10’

As described in the test I hit 82 putts with my gamer and then hit 82 putts with the Sacks Parente putters.  I did this on 3 separate days since hitting a couple hundred putts would be pretty stressful on the back   

TM-180

Looking at the below chart we can see that my that my speed is pretty consistent and that the face angle for about 84% of my putts was within 1* which should make a 10 foot putt.  

The below charts show the impact angle and ball speed for every putt in this test.  Looking at the details of the impact angle chart we see that my face angle is slightly biased to the left which means the putter face tends to be closed at impact. 

 

Drac

Looking at the Drac, ball speed is slightly higher with less consistency and my face angle has a higher percentage of 1* or less but can get a little wild and exceed the 2* barrier.

 

MC3

With the improved aim, this putter seemed to do what the Golf Lab test indicated.  As stated above, aim was better and based on the chart below, make rate improved by 11% and face angle improve with 3% more putts having a face angle withing 1*.  The only downturn was that ball speed was a little less consistent.   

 

Early testing has putt the Sacks Parente MC 3 Stripe into the lead.  So what’s next?   Over the next couple of days I will be capturing random putt distance (5’-50’) on my ExPutt to see how these putters perform compared to my gamer.    

 

 

Edited December 7, 2023 by cnosil

[billpierce]

I learned a lot here!  The data you have captured is fantastic. 

[Willie T]

44 minutes ago, cnosil said:

Putter Testing (Aim and 10' putts)

Now that the putters are here it is time to start diving into some testing and seeing how these things perform.   We all know manufacturers make claims about their product and Sacks Parente is no exception.   From their website:

• The only putters in golf that naturally improve your stroke
• Better aim
• No twisting
• Square impact

They had The Golf Lab to evaluate their putters and based on that test the website states:

• Sacks Parente putters were empirically proven to make more putts by being naturally easier to align, providing a more consistent stroke / speed control, better club path, and squaring the putter at impact.

You can read more about the study here:  https://sacksparente.com/golf-lab-study

I also found the following video that kind of shows how The Golf Lab setup the test (it can be viewed without a facebook account):  https://www.facebook.com/watch/?v=621875265044674

After reviewing the published information about their testing protocols  I attempted to mimic the test to see if I saw the claimed improvements.  While I don’t have a Gears system I do have an ExPutt simulator that lets me set green speed (I set it to 9) and putt distance (10’ since I couldn’t set it to 8’ like the study) and will measure ball speed, path, and face angle.  

To assess aim, I used a Seemore triangulator, fake hole, and a ruler.  I setup and aimed the putter at the hole.  I had my wife place the triangulator against the face and I pulled the string tight to see where it intersected the yardstick.  in putting aim doesn't need to be directly at the hole; Tiger was measured at 2* right of of target line, what is important is consistency.

 

The question many have is that while I may see improvements, what classifies as good?  I’ll utilize the following tweet from Sasho Mackenzie to evaluate my putting ability: 

In this tweet we see that Sasho indicates that what really matters in putting is speed control and face angle; factors like impact location and path are basically irrelevant. Depending on source, face angle controls 85-95% of the putts direction.   With the straight 10 foot putt if we were pro level putting we would make 90ish percent of the putts.  

Given the above, let’s dig into how I performed with my TaylorMade TM0-180, Sacks Parente MC 3 stripe, and Drac.

Aim

The following chart shows where I aimed from 8 feet to a hole.   Positive numbers are to the right and negative numbers are to the left of the center of the hole.  All the putters were aimed within the boundaries of the hole but the edge goes to the Sack Parente MC 3 Stripe.   The long lines on the putter definitely helped setup the putter square and setup myself up square with the putter.   

 

Performance at 10’

As described in the test I hit 82 putts with my gamer and then hit 82 putts with the Sacks Parente putters.  I did this on 3 separate days since hitting a couple hundred putts would be pretty stressful on the back   

TM-180

Looking at the below chart we can see that my that my speed is pretty consistent and that the face angle for about 84% of my putts was within 1* which should make a 10 foot putt.  

The below charts show the impact angle and ball speed for every putt in this test.  Looking at the details of the impact angle chart we see that my face angle is slightly biased to the left which means the putter face tends to be closed at impact. 

 

Drac

Looking at the Drac, ball speed is slightly higher with less consistency and my face angle has a higher percentage of 1* or less but can get a little wild and exceed the 2* barrier.

 

MC3

With the improved aim, this putter seemed to do what the Golf Lab test indicated.  As stated above, aim was better and based on the chart below, make rate improved by 11% and face angle improve with 3% more putts having a face angle withing 1*.  The only downturn was that ball speed was a little less consistent.   

 

Early testing has putt the Sacks Parente MC 3 Stripe into the lead.  So what’s next?   Over the next couple of days I will be capturing random putt distance (5’-50’) on my ExPutt to see how these putters perform compared to my gamer.    

 

 

Edited December 7, 2023 by Willie T
wanted to comment - fields locked up

[Willie T]

Great reports folks - love seeing the different methodolgies being applied.  

[Josh Ross]

Just getting caught up on this thread, some really great stuff going on here! Keep up the great work!

[cnosil]

On 12/4/2023 at 8:02 PM, cnosil said:

Putter weights:  As would be expected the ULBP build of these putters results in a very high swingweight.  But with putters swingweight isn't that big of a consideration.   I believe looking at things like weight distribution and total weight are more important.  I personally am a fan of lighter putters, but I was surprised by the total weights for the Sacks Parente putters; they don't feel this light.

• Taylor Made TM-180 - 520gr
• Seemore mfgp2 - 543gr
• Cameron Futura 5W -  542gr
• Sacks Parente MC3 - 451gr
• Sacks Parente Drac - 461gr

 

 

During tonight's community call I was asked if the weight difference was very noticeable and did I have any issues adjusting?

While the putters are significantly lighter,  because of the ulitralight shaft and grip the club is generally head heavy and when holding the putter is doesn't really feel any different than the heavier putters.  This evening I held both the seemore and MC3 held them one in each hand parallel to the ground;  they felt pretty much the same.  There really wasn't anything different to get used to.  

[billpierce]

I would agree; the putter weight doesn’t feel different but the stroke and acceleration do for me. 

[revkev]

On 12/7/2023 at 7:56 PM, cnosil said:

 

During tonight's community call I was asked if the weight difference was very noticeable and did I have any issues adjusting?

While the putters are significantly lighter,  because of the ulitralight shaft and grip the club is generally head heavy and when holding the putter is doesn't really feel any different than the heavier putters.  This evening I held both the seemore and MC3 held them one in each hand parallel to the ground;  they felt pretty much the same.  There really wasn't anything different to get used to.  

1.  Csnoil’s data is off the charts. Thank you!

2.  Fully agreed in regards to feel - yes the lighter components make the swing weight of the SP putters heavier.  No they don’t feel that way. To me my Duke simply feels incredibly stable. 

3.  On Friday, my two righty playing partners tried my putter and it was hard to get it back in my bag. 
 

4.  All three of them tried the balance point test and were amazed at the difference between their putter and my SP.

 

5.  The greens at my club are crazy undulating, multi tiered and tricky. I did not have a good ball stringing round and was on the wrong tier often. I had 0 3 putts. I’ve been averaging 1.8. 

 

[GolfSpy_APH]

On 12/7/2023 at 3:09 AM, cnosil said:

Putter Testing (Aim and 10' putts)

Now that the putters are here it is time to start diving into some testing and seeing how these things perform.   We all know manufacturers make claims about their product and Sacks Parente is no exception.   From their website:

• The only putters in golf that naturally improve your stroke
• Better aim
• No twisting
• Square impact

They had The Golf Lab to evaluate their putters and based on that test the website states:

• Sacks Parente putters were empirically proven to make more putts by being naturally easier to align, providing a more consistent stroke / speed control, better club path, and squaring the putter at impact.

You can read more about the study here:  https://sacksparente.com/golf-lab-study

I also found the following video that kind of shows how The Golf Lab setup the test (it can be viewed without a facebook account):  https://www.facebook.com/watch/?v=621875265044674

After reviewing the published information about their testing protocols  I attempted to mimic the test to see if I saw the claimed improvements.  While I don’t have a Gears system I do have an ExPutt simulator that lets me set green speed (I set it to 9) and putt distance (10’ since I couldn’t set it to 8’ like the study) and will measure ball speed, path, and face angle.  

To assess aim, I used a Seemore triangulator, fake hole, and a ruler.  I setup and aimed the putter at the hole.  I had my wife place the triangulator against the face and I pulled the string tight to see where it intersected the yardstick.  in putting aim doesn't need to be directly at the hole; Tiger was measured at 2* right of of target line, what is important is consistency.

 

The question many have is that while I may see improvements, what classifies as good?  I’ll utilize the following tweet from Sasho Mackenzie to evaluate my putting ability: 

In this tweet we see that Sasho indicates that what really matters in putting is speed control and face angle; factors like impact location and path are basically irrelevant. Depending on source, face angle controls 85-95% of the putts direction.   With the straight 10 foot putt if we were pro level putting we would make 90ish percent of the putts.   

For more detail on face angle refer to the Quintic Site:  https://www.quinticballroll.com/Quintic_Ball_Roll_Face_Angle.html   The key piece of information from that page is:

• A putter face that is 2 degrees open at impact will miss the hole from 5 feet!
• For a putt to go in at 8 feet the angle of the face needs to less than 1 degree open or closed.
• Increase the distance to 15 feet and the putter face needs to less than 0.5 of a degree open or closed. 

Given the above, let’s dig into how I performed with my TaylorMade TM0-180, Sacks Parente MC 3 stripe, and Drac.

Aim

The following chart shows where I aimed from 8 feet to a hole.   Positive numbers are to the right and negative numbers are to the left of the center of the hole.  All the putters were aimed within the boundaries of the hole but the edge goes to the Sack Parente MC 3 Stripe.   The long lines on the putter definitely helped setup the putter square and setup myself up square with the putter.   

 

Performance at 10’

As described in the test I hit 82 putts with my gamer and then hit 82 putts with the Sacks Parente putters.  I did this on 3 separate days since hitting a couple hundred putts would be pretty stressful on the back   

TM-180

Looking at the below chart we can see that my that my speed is pretty consistent and that the face angle for about 84% of my putts was within 1* which should make a 10 foot putt.  

The below charts show the impact angle and ball speed for every putt in this test.  Looking at the details of the impact angle chart we see that my face angle is slightly biased to the left which means the putter face tends to be closed at impact. 

 

Drac

Looking at the Drac, ball speed is slightly higher with less consistency and my face angle has a higher percentage of 1* or less but can get a little wild and exceed the 2* barrier.

 

MC3

With the improved aim, this putter seemed to do what the Golf Lab test indicated.  As stated above, aim was better and based on the chart below, make rate improved by 11% and face angle improve with 3% more putts having a face angle withing 1*.  The only downturn was that ball speed was a little less consistent.   

 

Early testing has putt the Sacks Parente MC 3 Stripe into the lead.  So what’s next?   Over the next couple of days I will be capturing random putt distance (5’-50’) on my ExPutt to see how these putters perform compared to my gamer.    

 

 

Please all and everyone read this incredible post!

[Josh Parker]

On 12/6/2023 at 8:09 PM, cnosil said:

Putter Testing (Aim and 10' putts)

Now that the putters are here it is time to start diving into some testing and seeing how these things perform.   We all know manufacturers make claims about their product and Sacks Parente is no exception.   From their website:

• The only putters in golf that naturally improve your stroke
• Better aim
• No twisting
• Square impact

They had The Golf Lab to evaluate their putters and based on that test the website states:

• Sacks Parente putters were empirically proven to make more putts by being naturally easier to align, providing a more consistent stroke / speed control, better club path, and squaring the putter at impact.

You can read more about the study here:  https://sacksparente.com/golf-lab-study

I also found the following video that kind of shows how The Golf Lab setup the test (it can be viewed without a facebook account):  https://www.facebook.com/watch/?v=621875265044674

After reviewing the published information about their testing protocols  I attempted to mimic the test to see if I saw the claimed improvements.  While I don’t have a Gears system I do have an ExPutt simulator that lets me set green speed (I set it to 9) and putt distance (10’ since I couldn’t set it to 8’ like the study) and will measure ball speed, path, and face angle.  

To assess aim, I used a Seemore triangulator, fake hole, and a ruler.  I setup and aimed the putter at the hole.  I had my wife place the triangulator against the face and I pulled the string tight to see where it intersected the yardstick.  in putting aim doesn't need to be directly at the hole; Tiger was measured at 2* right of of target line, what is important is consistency.

 

The question many have is that while I may see improvements, what classifies as good?  I’ll utilize the following tweet from Sasho Mackenzie to evaluate my putting ability: 

In this tweet we see that Sasho indicates that what really matters in putting is speed control and face angle; factors like impact location and path are basically irrelevant. Depending on source, face angle controls 85-95% of the putts direction.   With the straight 10 foot putt if we were pro level putting we would make 90ish percent of the putts.   

For more detail on face angle refer to the Quintic Site:  https://www.quinticballroll.com/Quintic_Ball_Roll_Face_Angle.html   The key piece of information from that page is:

• A putter face that is 2 degrees open at impact will miss the hole from 5 feet!
• For a putt to go in at 8 feet the angle of the face needs to less than 1 degree open or closed.
• Increase the distance to 15 feet and the putter face needs to less than 0.5 of a degree open or closed. 

Given the above, let’s dig into how I performed with my TaylorMade TM0-180, Sacks Parente MC 3 stripe, and Drac.

Aim

The following chart shows where I aimed from 8 feet to a hole.   Positive numbers are to the right and negative numbers are to the left of the center of the hole.  All the putters were aimed within the boundaries of the hole but the edge goes to the Sack Parente MC 3 Stripe.   The long lines on the putter definitely helped setup the putter square and setup myself up square with the putter.   

 

Performance at 10’

As described in the test I hit 82 putts with my gamer and then hit 82 putts with the Sacks Parente putters.  I did this on 3 separate days since hitting a couple hundred putts would be pretty stressful on the back   

TM-180

Looking at the below chart we can see that my that my speed is pretty consistent and that the face angle for about 84% of my putts was within 1* which should make a 10 foot putt.  

The below charts show the impact angle and ball speed for every putt in this test.  Looking at the details of the impact angle chart we see that my face angle is slightly biased to the left which means the putter face tends to be closed at impact. 

 

Drac

Looking at the Drac, ball speed is slightly higher with less consistency and my face angle has a higher percentage of 1* or less but can get a little wild and exceed the 2* barrier.

 

MC3

With the improved aim, this putter seemed to do what the Golf Lab test indicated.  As stated above, aim was better and based on the chart below, make rate improved by 11% and face angle improve with 3% more putts having a face angle withing 1*.  The only downturn was that ball speed was a little less consistent.   

 

Early testing has putt the Sacks Parente MC 3 Stripe into the lead.  So what’s next?   Over the next couple of days I will be capturing random putt distance (5’-50’) on my ExPutt to see how these putters perform compared to my gamer.    

 

 

Great read and info!  

[cnosil]

Putter Testing (Random 5' to 50')

Once again I was on the ExPutt to test the Sacks Parente putters.  These sessions were to evaluate how I putted when presented with random distances from 5 to 50 feet.  Like the last test I leveraged the stimp 9 speed.   Since all the putts are perfect surfaces and straight, the success of the putter comes down to being able to make the right length stroke with proper rhythm and controlling face angles.   I hit 101; just hit an extra one in the first session, putts with each putter and the results and my assessment are below.  

The Numbers

The below chart shows overall face angle at impact, leave distances, and make percentages with each putter.   I also highlighted the best number in green. 

Overall it appears that my gamer has a slight advantage over the other putters except in make percentage; which is really the metric that matters most.  During the putting sessions,  I did feel like I had more "feel" for how the putter was moving with the Sacks Parente putters  My current thought is that with a bit more practice the Sacks Parente putters would out perform the the TaylorMade putter.  

Like I did with the 10 foot and in post I did a closer look at the detailed charts to see if anything stood out.   

Path

While not very influential in a putters performance I still wanted to look at path.   The axis values are path and putt distance to see if distance has an influence on the measured metric.

The TM-180 path is definitely left biased but most of the paths fall within 1 degree left or right.  

The MC3 is a bit more right biased with most falling within the 1 degree range but a tendency to push the putter extreme right.

Path with the DRAC is probably the best overall, but with a more frequent tendency to have some extreme paths of grater than 3* which based on Sasho Mackenzie's information will start to have enough influence to miss putts.

 

Face Angle at Impact

This is the most crucial metric when looking at how the putter performs since face angle is the factor that influences if the ball starts on the players intended line.  

 

Looking at the impact angle values for the TM, values are slightly right biased but there is a tendency to shut the face more on longer putts and excessively leave the face open on shorter putts.   Quite a few putts with 0* face angle.  

The Sacks Parente MC3 is definitely a bit more left biased.  Pattern is centered around .25-.5* left.   While not bad, this starts to move the ball left of the hole as putts start getting into the 10-15* range. 

The DRAC is an interesting set of data at is is right biased but frequent putts within .5*.   Problem like the TM is the shorter range putts.  

 

Performance Assessment?

At this point we've done some controlled tests of the putters and they are fundamentally pretty close in performance.   I'd say that the putter has a slight influence in what type of performance a player will see; which is why a fitting or trying a putter is important.   It was a topic of discussion during my fitting with Sacks Parente that Aki liked the idea of the center shafted versus my toe hang putter to try and get the face a little more square on the short putts.  As I look at the data, my gut feeling is that I tend to be a bit more wild with the face angle using the center shafted putters.  Basically it is either good or bad; is this a technique problem or a putter problem?   I read a lot of material about putters and putting and depending on which coach you decide to follow it could be either and depends on what your beliefs are. 

What Now?

Time to get these putters outside and see how they perform on real greens.  Unfortunately,  I don't have a portable sensor to track putter metrics so we will look at make percentages, and start looking at strokes gained and proximity.    Just need the weather to start cooperating

 

 

Edited December 10, 2023 by cnosil

[rkj427]

5 minutes ago, cnosil said:

Putter Testing (Random 5' to 50')

Once again I was on the ExPutt to test the Sacks Parente putters.  These sessions were to evaluate how I putted when presented with random distances from 5 to 50 feet.  Like the last test I leveraged the stimp 9 speed.   Since all the putts are perfect surfaces and straight, the success of the putter comes down to being able to make the right length stroke with proper rhythm and controlling face angles.   I hit 101; just hit an extra one in the first session, putts with each putter and the results and my assessment are below.  

The Numbers

The below chart shows overall face angle at impact, leave distances, and make percentages with each putter.   I also highlighted the best number in green. 

Overall it appears that my gamer has a slight advantage over the other putters except in make percentage; which is really the metric that matters most.  During the putting sessions,  I did feel like I had more "feel" for how the putter was moving with the Sacks Parente putters  My current thought is that with a bit more practice the Sacks Parente putters would out perform the the TaylorMade putter.  

Like I did with the 10 foot and in post I did a closer look at the detailed charts to see if anything stood out.   

Path

While not very influential in a putters performance I still wanted to look at path.   The axis values are path and putt distance to see if distance has an influence on the measured metric.

The TM-180 path is definitely left biased but most of the paths fall within 1 degree left or right.  

The MC3 is a bit more right biased with most falling within the 1 degree range but a tendency to push the putter extreme right.

Path with the DRAC is probably the best overall, but with a more frequent tendency to have some extreme paths of grater than 3* which based on Sasho Mackenzie's information will start to have enough influence to miss putts.

 

Face Angle at Impact

This is the most crucial metric when looking at how the putter performs since face angle is the factor that influences if the ball starts on the players intended line.  

Looking at the impact angle values for the TM, values are slightly right biased but there is a tendency to shut the face more on longer putts and excessively leave the face open on shorter putts.   Quite a few putts with 0* face angle.  

The Sacks Parente MC3 is definitely a bit more left biased.  Pattern is centered around .25-.5* left.   While not bad, this starts to move the ball left of the hole as putts start getting into the 10-15* range. 

The DRAC is an interesting set of data at is is right biased but frequent putts within .5*.   Problem like the TM is the shorter range putts.  

 

Performance Assessment?

At this point we've done some controlled tests of the putters and they are fundamentally pretty close in performance.   I'd say that the putter has a slight influence in what type of performance a player will see; which is why a fitting or trying a putter is important.   It was a topic of discussion during my fitting with Sacks Parente that Aki liked the idea of the center shafted versus my toe hang putter to try and get the face a little more square on the short putts.  As I look at the data, my gut feeling is that I tend to be a bit more wild with the face angle using the center shafted putters.  Basically it is either good or bad; is this a technique problem or a putter problem?   I read a lot of material about putters and putting and depending on which coach you decide to follow it could be either and depends on what your beliefs are. 

What Now?

Time to get these putters outside and see how they perform on real greens.  Unfortunately,  I don't have a portable sensor to track putter metrics so we will look at make percentages, and start looking at strokes gained and proximity.    Just need the weather to start cooperating

 

Another awesome and very detailed report @cnosil

Thank you for providing all the information you have so far as it relates to these putters. 

[billpierce]

During my discussions with AKI - we absolutely discussed my path, and that I had a slight cut to my path which was causing me to push things, right!

The putter we selected was to address that issue. Not sure if i am only one with this fault!