Would You Rather (the great short game debate)

[Silver Fawkes]

I saw a tweet today with an interview from ol' John Daly talking about how everyone needs to concentrate on short game, etc. This cracks me up because it's always great ball strikers giving this advice. So it made me really think about whether I would have an elite short game or an elite approach game.

 

And so I ask.... Would you rather hit 75% of GIR from between 150-200 yards or hit every shot inside of 25 yards within 6ft?

[DaveP043]

Just now, Silver Fawkes said:

I saw a tweet today with an interview from ol' John Daly talking about how everyone needs to concentrate on short game, etc. This cracks me up because it's always great ball strikers giving this advice. So it made me really think about whether I would have an elite short game or an elite approach game.

 

And so I ask.... Would you rather hit 75% of GIR from between 150-200 yards or hit every shot inside of 25 yards within 6ft?

Simple, I'd hit more greens.  To hit 3/4 of the greens from 150-200 requires really solid ball-striking, so the skills involved would impact every other full-swing shot.  Better ball-striking means better tee shots, better short irons, everything.  

[GolfSpy_APH]

3 minutes ago, Silver Fawkes said:

I saw a tweet today with an interview from ol' John Daly talking about how everyone needs to concentrate on short game, etc. This cracks me up because it's always great ball strikers giving this advice. So it made me really think about whether I would have an elite short game or an elite approach game.

 

And so I ask.... Would you rather hit 75% of GIR from between 150-200 yards or hit every shot inside of 25 yards within 6ft?

Give me the 75% ... I can still miss a lot of 6 footers 

[Josh Parker]

36 minutes ago, Silver Fawkes said:

I saw a tweet today with an interview from ol' John Daly talking about how everyone needs to concentrate on short game, etc. This cracks me up because it's always great ball strikers giving this advice. So it made me really think about whether I would have an elite short game or an elite approach game.

 

And so I ask.... Would you rather hit 75% of GIR from between 150-200 yards or hit every shot inside of 25 yards within 6ft?

GIR 100%

I love my short game and feel confident in just about every shot. But... if I hit more greens I wouldn't have to worry about that as much. 

[Silver Fawkes]

Agreed with both of you guys. I mean look at where Scotty is getting strokes gained... It ain't around the green. 

[Middler]

I'd love to be 75% GIR (instead of 50% for 5 years running...). That would definitely lower my scoring.

Edited December 15, 2023 by Middler

[aguybadatgolf]

One of my favorite podcasts to listen to is The Sweet Spot. They’ve had a few data guys on and if I’m remembering right GIR is one of the most important stats for strokes gained. I’m an ok putter (2 putts a hole was my average this year) so that’s essentially a par 75% of the time which I’d take every day of the week. 

Edited December 15, 2023 by aguybadatgolf

[LinksgolfFever]

My personal challenge for next year is to hit at least 50% on the GIR stat.  I've got 100 rounds in this year and this is where/how I can most improve my overall score.  Par 4 GIR and ultimately scoring average(4.61) is where I am getting penalized the most. The majority of the courses I play have between 9-12 par 4's (50-60%), improving that I should be able to shave 3-4 strokes a round. I have averaged 1.7 putts per hole this year and a decent up and down rate but getting my GIR to at least 9/18 will/should get me in the 70's more consistently.  I LOVE DATA....

[Parshooter36]

I was going to try and play devil's advocate and say that the increased greens in regulation would lead to more 3 putts, then I looked at my Garmin data.

At my home course my lowest GIR % hole was 9% with 1.4 putts, while my highest GIR % hole was 70% with 1.7 putts.

I don't know if that means I'm a good putter or a bad chipper.  Either way, I will have to take the 75% GIR as I'm only averaging 44% right now.

 

[DaveP043]

35 minutes ago, Parshooter36 said:

I was going to try and play devil's advocate and say that the increased greens in regulation would lead to more 3 putts, then I looked at my Garmin data.

At my home course my lowest GIR % hole was 9% with 1.4 putts, while my highest GIR % hole was 70% with 1.7 putts.

I don't know if that means I'm a good putter or a bad chipper.  Either way, I will have to take the 75% GIR as I'm only averaging 44% right now.

Oh, I think that increasing GIR probably WOJULD lead to more 3 -putts.  A simple way of thinking is to say you turn some number of chip shots into putts from a slightly closer distance.  And sure, you'll 3-putt occasionally from 40 or 50 feet.  But you'll 2-putt a LOT more often than you'd be successful getting up and down from off the green.  50-foot putt versus 55-foot chip?  I'll take the putt every time.

[cnosil]

I concur with most everyone else.   give me the GIR.  

[ParFore74x]

I’m also on board with the GIR. Rounds where I am hitting more greens are the ones that I enjoy the most. 

[RoverRick]

Speaking from personal experience, a weak long game and a strong short game will have me hovering in the low 80’s score-wise. A weak short game and a strong long game will get me in the high 70’s. It takes both to shoot in the low 70’s.  And I’m sure we all know what happens when both are weak. We buy new clubs.

Edited December 16, 2023 by RoverRick

[Tom the Golf Nut]

I’ll take the GIR any day. Especially when you are hitting into greens like mine. They are all on the (very) small side.

Bunker in the front and in the back with 12 yards of green to land on.

[BMart519]

I have 8 approach shots from 150-200 per round with 30% GIR according to Shot Scope. So option #1 takes me from 2.4 GIR to 6 GIR for an increase of 3.6 GIR/round from 150-200. My up/down overall average was 24%, 3 putt% was 14% ... Applying both of those would have me saving about 2.3 shots per round. 

7.7 shots/round under 25 yards with average proximity of 15ft and 35% up/down rate. Assuming 6ft proximity results in 50% up and down, that is only saving 1 shot/round. Actual savings would be less as the 7.7 shots under 25 yards would shrink to around 5.7 with the higher GIR. 

BONUS: I could also justify playing longer tees to have more approaches from 150-200. Which would reduce my index over time on top of saving the 2.3 shots/round above. 

[Girldad18]

On 12/15/2023 at 10:28 AM, Silver Fawkes said:

I saw a tweet today with an interview from ol' John Daly talking about how everyone needs to concentrate on short game, etc. This cracks me up because it's always great ball strikers giving this advice. So it made me really think about whether I would have an elite short game or an elite approach game.

 

And so I ask.... Would you rather hit 75% of GIR from between 150-200 yards or hit every shot inside of 25 yards within 6ft?

From 150-200 yards I would definitely take the 75% of GIR.  That is an awesome stat to carry.  To get technical though, if you were to hit more greens, putting stats would probably rise.  Of course we are not guaranteed all 6 footers either.  

I can tell you this though. In college, I was not a very good ball striker.  If I hit 9 greens a round that was a solid day for me.  But I would shoot around par or better.  Because I could get up and down from anywhere.  And it wasn't just pitching/chipping but also putting.  We did putting drills for hours and I would chip and pitch shots for hours.  It was freeing to know you could pretty much hit it anywhere and salvage a good score.  

I do agree with Daly though, working on your short game definitely helps with scoring.  How many strokes do you take from 25yards and in vs approach shots?  

But I would love to hit 75% of all of my GIR. That would make all of us better.  

[vandyland]

Caveat: From the tees I play, I don't have that many shots from 150-200 except on the par 3s. Most par 4s I have 70-135 yds for GIR and the Par 5s I always have 200+. There are maybe 1-2 par 4s where this comes in handy unless I hit an atrocious tee shot. 

I will be the odd man out and think about this differently. If I look at my last round I had 150-200 yds left into a green on the following holes:

Hole 2 Par 3 193 yds: I hit the green and had a 10 foot putt. 
Hole 5 Par 3 161 yds: I missed the green right. 
Hole 11 Par 3 153 yds: Hit the green and had a 14 foot putt. 
Hole 16 Par 3 158 yds: Hit the green and had a 30 footer
Hole 18 Par 4 157 yds: Hit the green and had a 25 footer. 

So I was 83% on my own ball from 150-200 on GIR so this 75% thing would not have helped me. As for the scrambling, if that includes bunkers I am taking the 25 yds to 6 ft (assuming that is the MAX I could be out by, I assume I could hit it closer on some occasions?). This is where I lose so many shots. 

Hole 1 - missed the green right, into a greenside bunker from 141 yds. Went bunker to other greenside bunker. Finally got out of second bunker and missed putt from 8 ft. Double bogey 6 from the middle of the fwy.
Hole 3 - missed the green right from 224 yds, had a 20 yd pitch, put it to 5 feet and made the putt. (Par 5)
Hole 4 - missed the green into greenside bunker from 133 yds, put bunker shot to 8 ft, missed the putt. Bogey
Hole 9 - missed the green long, had 12 yd pitch shot put it to 7 ft and did not make the putt. Bogey.
Hole 12 - missed the green into greenside bunker from 220 yds. Hit bunker shot to 20 ft, missed the putt. Par (Par 5)
Hole 17 - missed the green long and had 20 yd pitch shot, put pitch shot to 11 ft, missed the putt. Par (Par 5)

So, for me and my game, we have incredibly deep and soft bunkers with fast greens so getting up and down out of greenside bunkers has been very challenging for me. The greens are on the large-ish side so hitting them from 150-200 seems to be about the same level of difficulty, for me, as hitting them from 120-130 yds. And just being on the green could still be a 45-60 ft putt which I would be lucky sometimes to get down in 2 from there. 
 

 

Edited January 5 by vandyland

[fredsharky]

On 12/15/2023 at 10:28 AM, Silver Fawkes said:

I saw a tweet today with an interview from ol' John Daly talking about how everyone needs to concentrate on short game, etc. This cracks me up because it's always great ball strikers giving this advice. So it made me really think about whether I would have an elite short game or an elite approach game.

 

And so I ask.... Would you rather hit 75% of GIR from between 150-200 yards or hit every shot inside of 25 yards within 6ft?

Well I want to say GIR because I have a really good short game - not every 25 yd shot and in at 6ft good though
My GIR right now is at 43%  (pretty much the same yardage 190-145)
So to me I need more data points really for the GIR one, like how big are the greens - if super large then that is something to consider as well as speed of greens. Or is this just every course all the time no matter what what.

I know my 20-40yd distance to pin on average is12.6ft and far from the hole I am 1.68 putts but if I am just on the green and 25ft away every time my putts go up to 2.21
My 5ft putting is 1.23 x 18 = 22.14 putts per round so 6ft may be a just a smidge higher - after going back and looking at my numbers it is not 1.23 but 1.43 x 18 = 25.74, but I am still in the 25yd and 6ft camp
My normal putts per round right now is 30, equals out to 1.66 per hole now
So for me getting 6ft and in every time from 25 yds out would be huge - I mean I could layup on almost every hole to 25yds and in and make par or better most of the time  
So I guess I would have to take the 6ft and in putts every - Although I do reserve the right to change my answer once I calculate more data 

Very interesting thought here though - I love data stuff like this, gives me something else to track now 

Edited January 5 by fredsharky
I had some wrong information and calculations