Should your handicap dictate your tee box selection?

[Rob Person]

Recent topic about moving to a different tee box has me pondering something. 

Does your handicap dictate your tee box selection?

Ultimately the goal is to shoot the best possible score. 

But I have scored in the same general mid to high 80s regardless of which tee box I play. (Except the tips) 

But are your scores against your handicap accurate? 

Some choose by total yardage of a course, some play based on driver distance capability,  and some play based on their age.  

 

What say you MGS?

[GolfSpy_APH]

I say no. Handicaps are an overarching view of a person's potential ability. 

Especially in the 8-14 HDCP range you can have wildly different skill levels in various areas. 

Just because someone is a low handicap doesn't mean they have the distance to play back. By that same token there are players that are really long but have higher handicaps due to poor putting or something else. That doesn't mean they should move up.

I play two sets frequently - backs and one ups - depends on who on playing with and what I may be preparing for. Both offer challenges and it doesn't diminish abilities or enjoyment of playing.

[Josh Parker]

I would say no....

I agree with @GolfSpy_APH that just because someone is a scratch golfer, doesn't mean they have the distance.  When I first started playing golf, there was an 85-year-old man that I would play with in the "noon" group and he was a scratch golfer.  Played from the front tees and was, driver, wood, chip or putt par and sometimes birdie.  He only hit his driver 100+ yards but was so accurate that he shot even or better every round.  If he had played from the back tees, it would have been a much different score.

[cnosil]

I agree with what is stated above.  IMO, there is no one factor that determines what tee box a person should play.   

[TJ Hall]

Not at all…play with a guy who will regularly shoot 70-75, but hits his driver 200 max.  He could probably shoot ok moving back, but it would be rough for him.

I think distance is a big factor in determining what tees to play, but it also isn’t the only thing.

[cksurfdude]

One POV that makes sense to me is based on average driving distance - although, as we all too well know, there's happen to be some people out there who are not completely truthful about what their actual IRL driver carry is...

(..segue into extended colorful discussions about all the facets of pace of play issues...)

There was a project called Longleaf or Greenleaf or something that tried to get courses to post distances - at each tee - to the designed landing area.

This would be combined with the club pro checking out each golfer at the range and then suggesting which tee box they play from.

I haven't seen it not read much about it, so guess it has not caught on ...

[DaveP043]

For an individual, no.  As has been said, there are wildly varying driving distances within a single handicap group, when they have an option players should make reasonable choices.  And by reasonable, I mean a guy whose big drive carries 200 yards should NEVER choose to play a 7000 yard golf course.

But from a course management view, and assuming the management wants to mandate tees as one measure towards keeping a reasonable pace of play, handicap DOES correlate with driving distance when looking at large groups of players.  Lower handicappers, as a group, drive it longer than higher handicappers.  So it makes sense to use handicap when advising players about the appropriate tee to play.

[funkyjudge]

2 hours ago, Rob Person said:

Recent topic about moving to a different tee box has me pondering something. 

Does your handicap dictate your tee box selection?

Ultimately the goal is to shoot the best possible score. 

But I have scored in the same general mid to high 80s regardless of which tee box I play. (Except the tips) 

But are your scores against your handicap accurate? 

Some choose by total yardage of a course, some play based on driver distance capability,  and some play based on their age.  

 

What say you MGS?

Although several courses where I play base their tee  recommendations on players’ handicaps, I feel that the tees that a golfer SHOULD play from be based entirely on how far the golfer hits the ball.

[DaveP043]

1 minute ago, funkyjudge said:

Although several courses where I play base their tee  recommendations on players’ handicaps, I feel that the tees that a golfer SHOULD play from be based entirely on how far the golfer hits the ball.

While I don't disagree, how can a course's management design recommendations (or requirements) concerning tees?  Is it realistic to ask a player how far he hits it, and expect semi-accurate responses from most?  

[fixyurdivot]

I say no for the reasons Jamie already stated.  I can also base my position on observations.  Living in a 55+ community, we have quite a few single digit players who have lost distance through the bag but not ball striking, chipping, and putting proficiency.  In fact, as if when losing one of one's senses another doubles down to make up the difference, some of these guys are surgeons from 150 yards in .

They could certainly play the longer tees but then it becomes a matter of course layout (as it does for most all of us).  When one has near zero chances of reaching greens in regulation or cannot clear forced carries even with well struck shots... it's time to change tees... and that has nothing to do with handicap.

[JFish350]

I agree handicap has nothing to do with which tee box a person plays.  The question should be, What club are you using for a 150 yard carry. That is a avg distance of par 3's and a yardage longer than most forced carries IMO. 

 

[Rob Person]

Thanks for the responses.

So two thoughts occurred to me.

If i wanted a lower handicap, just for say, ego sake,  I could play from the front most tees and potentially score better, regularly. So why would I move back to tee boxes other than to prove I could do it?

I have not done a deep dive on this, but what rules govern where one should play from?  When registering for tournaments (non-professional) what is the standard tee box to use as a baseline to register my handicap?

 

[Josh Parker]

2 minutes ago, Rob Person said:

Thanks for the responses.

So two thoughts occurred to me.

If i wanted a lower handicap, just for say, ego sake,  I could play from the front most tees and potentially score better, regularly. So why would I move back to tee boxes other than to prove I could do it?

I have not done a deep dive on this, but what rules govern where one should play from?  When registering for tournaments (non-professional) what is the standard tee box to use as a baseline to register my handicap?

 

If you want a handicap for ego sake..... fluff the ball, putt in leather is good and many other things can make a "glorified" handicap without moving up to front tees.  

Personally, I enjoy playing from front tees, mid, tips and seeing a different part of the course and making me stronger with all the clubs in my bag.  Front tees, I don't necessarily shoot better because I'm forced to hit shots differently.  Bryson has said on his channel that its great for amateurs to play from the front because it helps you learn to score.  It puts you in position to birdie more often and that can help you as you move back. 

 

As for the second question... I will let someone like @DaveP043 answer, because I am not sure how tournaments decide what tees.   

 

[GolfSpy_APH]

16 minutes ago, Rob Person said:

Thanks for the responses.

So two thoughts occurred to me.

If i wanted a lower handicap, just for say, ego sake,  I could play from the front most tees and potentially score better, regularly. So why would I move back to tee boxes other than to prove I could do it?

I have not done a deep dive on this, but what rules govern where one should play from?  When registering for tournaments (non-professional) what is the standard tee box to use as a baseline to register my handicap?

 

Moving up doesn't necessarily make things easier or mean you will lower you handicap.

[DaveP043]

15 minutes ago, Rob Person said:

If i wanted a lower handicap, just for say, ego sake,  I could play from the front most tees and potentially score better, regularly. So why would I move back to tee boxes other than to prove I could do it?

When you shoot lower scores from shorter tees, your raw score gets "compared" to a lower Course Rating, so your handicap may not change at all.  Same when you play a longer set of tees, your (probably) higher score gets compared to a higher Course Rating.  Of course distance affects each player differently, so those generalities may not hold true for everyone

18 minutes ago, Rob Person said:

I have not done a deep dive on this, but what rules govern where one should play from?  When registering for tournaments (non-professional) what is the standard tee box to use as a baseline to register my handicap?

There really are no "rules".  When you enter a handicapped event, you provide your Handicap Index, your Course Handicap will be calculated based on which tees you play.  Generally, the organizers will assign your tees, you won't have a  choice.  As an example, I play some Virginia State golf Association One-Day events.  These are low-dollar and relatively informal competitions.  They assign tees based on age groups, at age 68 I usually play from 5700 to 5800 yards.  The flights are defined by Handicap Index, regardless of the tees assigned.  

[RetiredBoomer]

4 hours ago, Rob Person said:

Recent topic about moving to a different tee box has me pondering something. 

Does your handicap dictate your tee box selection?

Ultimately the goal is to shoot the best possible score. 

But I have scored in the same general mid to high 80s regardless of which tee box I play. (Except the tips) 

But are your scores against your handicap accurate? 

Some choose by total yardage of a course, some play based on driver distance capability,  and some play based on their age.  

 

What say you MGS?

 

I say, play from where your friends want to play and don't worry about it.
But that's just me.
I play golf to relax, not to stress myself.

To many, however, its a blood-sport,
and that's perfectly fine too if that' how you enjoy it.

I get the handicap consideration if you play a lot of formal golf,
but the only organized golf that I play are two member-guests a year, one home and one away.

And lately, we've been playing scramble so much that I have no cards to turn in.

 

 

[Rob Person]

48 minutes ago, DaveP043 said:

When you shoot lower scores from shorter tees, your raw score gets "compared" to a lower Course Rating, so your handicap may not change at all.  Same when you play a longer set of tees, your (probably) higher score gets compared to a higher Course Rating.  Of course distance affects each player differently, so those generalities may not hold true for everyone

There really are no "rules".  When you enter a handicapped event, you provide your Handicap Index, your Course Handicap will be calculated based on which tees you play.  Generally, the organizers will assign your tees, you won't have a  choice.  As an example, I play some Virginia State golf Association One-Day events.  These are low-dollar and relatively informal competitions.  They assign tees based on age groups, at age 68 I usually play from 5700 to 5800 yards.  The flights are defined by Handicap Index, regardless of the tees assigned.  

Thank you for the reply. I failed to even consider the course rating portion. Makes sense though as it is part of the formula for the hcp system.

Also, I have seen some informal tournaments use 2 different tee box assignment styles, like you mentioned.   The GC employee tournament uses age as a tee box format. Where as the mixed member tournaments use handicap 

It's a part of golf I'm trying to understand more, and I'm sort of a "clear and direct direction", type of person.  And with no absolute standard, it's working my brain a little bit.

[Rob Person]

39 minutes ago, RetiredBoomer said:

 

I say, play from where your friends want to play and don't worry about it.
But that's just me.
I play golf to relax, not to stress myself.

To many, however, its a blood-sport,
and that's perfectly fine too if that' how you enjoy it.

 

 

Oh definitely! I enjoy golf for me.

The last year here at MGS has taught me so much. I am now moving into the middle ground between "casual fun" and "casual serious"  yet there is still so much I don't know, or understand completely,  about the finer points behind the scenes of being a golfer.

[funkyjudge]

3 hours ago, DaveP043 said:

While I don't disagree, how can a course's management design recommendations (or requirements) concerning tees?  Is it realistic to ask a player how far he hits it, and expect semi-accurate responses from most?  

That part about knowing and accurately communicating true distances that the golfer hits his or her clubs is always going to be a major sticking point.

[DaveP043]

21 hours ago, funkyjudge said:

That part about knowing and accurately communicating true distances that the golfer hits his or her clubs is always going to be a major sticking point.

I agree.  That's why it seems reasonable for a course's management to use handicap as the basis for suggesting or assigning specific tees to individual players.  Its far from perfect, but I don't know a better method.

[BIG STU]

i am going to throw my hat into the ring here. In 2020 before my accident I was 62 yoa and still hitting the driver about 250 260 at sea level. I was still playing our mid tees at 6167. Then my accident and recovery. I had to drastically shorten my swing. Needless to say from the accident and the natural effects of aging I lost a lot of distance. I said something to my pro one day about moving to the Super Senior (green tees) in the shootouts etc. He showed me the USGA chart on distance versus tees. With me hitting about an average these days about 210 220 I fell right in the category of 5100 to 5300 yards which our Super Senior tees were set up at 5120. He told me to jump up there because technically I am handicapped. Normally they do the Shootouts and event tee thing based on age. The league also did it on the age thing but they dropped that just before I joined. As far as handicaps the number depends on the players themselves. I have guys in their 70s that can blast it past me but I can beat them because of my short game. I have guys shorter than I am that can beat me because they have a better short game than I do. I used to be a bomb and gorge type player even into my 60s. I had to revamp my course management and plot and plod my way around the course

When I first came on here some 13 years ago I was a solid 5 from the back tees. Now days and our handicaps change from day to day with our system I hover between 9 and 13. I will admit it was hard to accept but I have came to grips with it now. I am still learning my new swing and how to plot my way around now.

But the numbers a person is the handicap they are for different reasons

[goaliedad30]

I think the highest value in this comes from the middle- to high-handicappers. If a course posts a sign that gives a suggested range for handicaps or average score, if it makes those folks think twice about playing the tips, it's probably good.

I'd wager that most low handicappers can look at the scorecard and course/slope ratings, and know enough about their games to know where they'll have the most fun playing.

[BIG STU]

14 minutes ago, goaliedad30 said:

I think the highest value in this comes from the middle- to high-handicappers. If a course posts a sign that gives a suggested range for handicaps or average score, if it makes those folks think twice about playing the tips, it's probably good.

I'd wager that most low handicappers can look at the scorecard and course/slope ratings, and know enough about their games to know where they'll have the most fun playing.

Yep I agree with you on face value here. Now I live in a tourist retirement mecca. Most retirees are like me and know how far they DO NOT hit it and play from the appropriate tees. Where we run into issues here and it is a 2 edged sword is tourist golfers playing the tips or attempting to. The management tells rangers not to piss off the tourists. Most of them figure since they are on vacation and pay premium prices they can play where they darn well please. That leads to 6 hour rounds in the height of the season. Like I said a 2 edged sword. My course is sort of a non tourist destination and does not do resort packages but does some booking with like Golf Now.com. But being a member and playing in the Member Men's league we have first off priority tee times and are usually done before the outside influences kick in. But we do get crowded with mostly the older folks and they do offer like 90 day seasonal memberships

[funkyjudge]

3 hours ago, DaveP043 said:

I agree.  That's why it seems reasonable for a course's management to use handicap as the basis for suggesting or assigning specific tees to individual players.  Its far from perfect, but I don't know a better method.

The problem with that is that there are higher handicap golfers (like me) who still hit their driver more than 250 yards, and 7-iron more than 150 (actually 160+). Then, there are the low single-digit cappers who hit driver 200 yards.

[DaveP043]

1 hour ago, BIG STU said:

The management tells rangers not to piss off the tourists. Most of them figure since they are on vacation and pay premium prices they can play where they darn well please.

This is where I like what I've seen in Scotland and Ireland.  You WILL play the guest tees, whether you want to or not.  

37 minutes ago, funkyjudge said:

The problem with that is that there are higher handicap golfers (like me) who still hit their driver more than 250 yards, and 7-iron more than 150 (actually 160+). Then, there are the low single-digit cappers who hit driver 200 yards.

I said the use of handicaps is NOT perfect, for exactly this reason.  I said I don't have a better method. If you are management, and you want to find a way to get players onto the correct tees for both pace of play AND their enjoyment, how do YOU do it?  You've already said that getting accurate information about an individual's driving distance is unreliable, what's a better way?  

And to be fair, I don't think the OP was looking for a discussion of golf course management, but selection of tees can be influenced (or strictly determined) by management.  And tee selection by individuals CAN impact pace of play, which impacts every player behind a problem group.

[funkyjudge]

At the course where I play a lot of competitive golf, and where I maintain my handicap, the head pro still makes me play the white tees in competition, even though I am 75 years old. In fact, in one two-day tournament last year, I had to play a combination of the blue and white tees. He knows my game quite well, as I play on the course’s “Challenge Cup” team, where he is the captain.  I am not the only senior golfer at this course who plays from a longer set of tees in club competitions. The head pro’s basic response to those members who question these decisions is “If you don’t like it, don’t enter the tournament.”

Edited August 11 by funkyjudge

[BIG STU]

1 hour ago, DaveP043 said:

This is where I like what I've seen in Scotland and Ireland.  You WILL play the guest tees, whether you want to or not.  

I said the use of handicaps is NOT perfect, for exactly this reason.  I said I don't have a better method. If you are management, and you want to find a way to get players onto the correct tees for both pace of play AND their enjoyment, how do YOU do it?  You've already said that getting accurate information about an individual's driving distance is unreliable, what's a better way?  

And to be fair, I don't think the OP was looking for a discussion of golf course management, but selection of tees can be influenced (or strictly determined) by management.  And tee selection by individuals CAN impact pace of play, which impacts every player behind a problem group.

I know about that on courses over there and they can get away with it simply because they are highly desirable "bucket list" destination courses.

I have never seen or heard of ANY course in the Grand Strand area of SC being a bucket list course even though we have some really nice courses here. Besides most owners here are too money hungry and are afraid they will miss out on a buck or two

[Erin B]

On 8/10/2024 at 4:46 AM, Rob Person said:

Recent topic about moving to a different tee box has me pondering something. 

Does your handicap dictate your tee box selection?

Ultimately the goal is to shoot the best possible score. 

But I have scored in the same general mid to high 80s regardless of which tee box I play. (Except the tips) 

But are your scores against your handicap accurate? 

Some choose by total yardage of a course, some play based on driver distance capability,  and some play based on their age.  

 

What say you MGS?

I really don’t care what tee box a person plays from as long as they don’t play slow. If they stay with the group in front of them what business is it of mine which tee box they play from? It’s just not relevant to my game until the game slows down because of them. 

[JB2334]

If you want to play from the front tees and have 3/4 wedge shots into the par 4s and reach the par 5s in 2 with an 8 iron, more power to you - but you still have to get it in the hole.

About a year ago, I played a round with an older gentleman who was playing from the gold (senior) tees. For economy's sake, I played those tees with him. From tee to green that day, you would think I was good at this game or something...until you saw the eight 3-putt bogeys. (Disclaimer - I'm generally not THAT bad at putting, but I had just moved to East Tennessee from Southwest Florida...the greens are waaaayyyy different.)

You should play the longest tee that will challenge your skills without overwhelming you, which is why a player's handicap is generally irrelevant when determining what tee to play from. But with that said - you probably shouldn't be tipping it out if you're a 25 handicap or won't be able to get your tee shot to the fairway, regardless of handicap.

[Rob Person]

Great feedback from everyone.  Currently I can play effectively from the 2 middle tee boxes and still have an enjoyable round, occasionally even a great round  (for me)

Another course I play uses the distance method for determining tee boxes. While my primary uses handicap. 

So let's say I miraculously start adding 30+ yards to my drives. But my handicap only adjusts by 2 points. Do I move back a tee, or rely on my handicap to dictate that?