IS YOUR COURSE RATING ACCURITE?

[PlaidJacket]

I've been thinking about the course rating at the club where I play most of my rounds. This year I decided it was time to move up a notch to the white tee. My course has four sets of tees. From the back they are Blue, White, Gold, and Red. The course plays at par 70 from all tees except the Red which is par 71.

 

The rating and slope for each tee are as follow:
Blue 71.6/122 - 6560 yds.
White 68.7/119 - 6030 yds.
Gold 66.8/115 - 5600 yds.
Red 70.3/124 - 5291 yds.

 

I've been thinking that our course is not rated correctly or perhaps the rating is just stale and needs updating. The USGA states that each course must have their rating updated at least every ten years. Or re-rated if significant changes have been made. Every 5 years for new courses. I'm not sure when our last rating was performed; but I'm inquiring. In the case of my course there have been a few significant changes. The first one being new bent greens were installed 3 years ago. Secondly, two holes had the greens significantly re-contoured and new sand bunkers installed. Lastly, many old or dead Elms were thinned out or removed and new trees were planted all over the course. Many of the new trees were planted on the course and along fairways where none existed before. And these are not twigs they planted either. Lastly, there are several areas on the course where mulch was put down replacing grass. Trust me.... it does come into play and it can be difficult to play from.

 

Here's my personal thoughts. Granted the course has been rated many times because it already has a USGA rating. Most prominent features such as water hazards, OB, fairway bunkers, etc. haven't changed. The overall layout is the same. But, I believe this course plays more difficult than is indicated on the score card. Always has in my opinion. My course was built in the late 40's early 50's. It's compact and fairly tight. The fairways are narrow and tree lined and the greens are small. There is OB right or left on 6 holes, water on 11 holes, and fairway bunkers on 7 holes. All of these obstacles are in play from any tee. I think the USGA places too much emphasis on length.

 

Just yesterday a buddy joined us for our Saturday game and lampooned me for playing the White tee. I made him a bet for a dollar that he couldn't break 80 from even the White tee. He didn't. (80) He paid.

 

What's the rating on your course? Do you agree with it?

[jbil8802]

Here are the ratings at my club:

 

Black - 72.8/127 - 6801 yards

Blue - 71.7/125 - 6518 yards

White - 69.6/119 - 6201 yards

Gold - 67.8/118 - 5596 yards

 

I'm not sure the last time the ratings were updated. I've always that they were a little on the low side. It's definitely an interesting topic but I really don't know anything about it. Next time I'm over there I'll chat with our pro about it.

 

It's an old school course that's fairly tight. OB, hazards, and water come into play on 12 holes. The ones that don't are lined by woods so may as well be OB. The greens are small and fast, usually around 11. Missing long on pretty much every hole is typically a bogey at best.

 

17 is a 513 par 5 from the tips. I know that when they used the course for a U.S. Open sectional qualifier in 2013 it played as a par 4. I'm curious if that would change the rating just for those events?

[revkev]

Actually new greens are considered a significant enough change that your course should have been related. Mine just was in August and it was discovered to be 120 yards longer than listed which of course meant that the rating went up a bit particularly the slope.

 

Here goes, lots of tees:

 

Gold. 74.6 148 7178

Chairman. 73.5. 140 6889

Blue 72.5. 139 6700

MGA. 71.5. 132 6464

White 71.0. 130.6288

Sr. Chair. 68.0. 124 5958

Green. 67. 121 5682

 

 

The Sr. chair, Green and Red have ratings for women as week.

 

In case you think you're ready for the LPGA our two LPGA members play the Golds and shoot par or under regularly from there. I don't know anyone else who regularly play the golds. I play either the MGA or white depending upon who is playing with me.

[RoverRick]

Nope. Our course is still in the midst of a 5 year remodeling. New club house, new green complexes, new lakes, have been in for a couple of years. The old club house is being renovated now, to include work out facilities. Also, this year, we will have new cart sheds built.

 

We have also purchased some more land and this week, they started the dirt work for a new tee box on the par 3 Fourth hole, this will add another two levels and up to 70 yards more. Also, they will be building a completely new 13th hole and 14th tee box. The old 14th will be a short game practice area. Not exactly close to the club house, but having one that is on the opposite side of the course is better than not having one.

 

Our Scorecard, hole handicaps, and course rating were made up by the Pro and the greens keeper. No reason to have the USGA come out when the final design is not opened yet.

 

These newest changes will not effect play at all. A total of 6 holes are being altered or replaced, but all changes are behind where we normally play. I think this will add another 600 or so yards to the course, taking it up to the 7400 yard range.

[Kenny B]

Here is my new course I joined in October.  The don't list ratings for Men from the Forward tee, and they don't list a rating for Women from the tips.  I'll have to inquire about that.

 

MEN'S

Black  71.7/132  -  6571 yds.

Blue    68.8/127  -  6068 yds.

White  66.3/113   -  5418 yds.
 

WOMEN'S

Blue    74.6/130  

White  71.0/122 

Red     67.9/117 - 5291 yds.

 

I play the Blue tees.  The front nine is par 37 with 3 par 5's and the back nine is par 35 with 3 par 3's.  Since my wife and I joined, I have shot 90 and 77 and my wife plays the Red tees usually shoots 86-96.

 

I am not sure if I can judge the quality of the rating since I haven't played much there when I can post scores.  That starts March 1.  The WSGA team is doing to our area to rate a few courses (not mine) this year and they are going to call me to have them join them.  I just want to see how they do it and what they consider.

[PlaidJacket]

I'm like Kenny. I've placed a call to our Pro to ask when the last rating was done. I'm also going to ask that he request a new updated rating. I also want to be present when they come next time. I think it'd be interesting to see how the process works.

[Kanoito]

We have an easier system:

Men's (yellow) Par 72, 6484 yards, CR 71.5, Slope 131

Women's (red) Par 72, 5727 yards, CR 73.1, Slope 129

 

Unless you are a senior (which would allow you to use red tees), the rest pretty much don't have a choice

[revkev]

I think that's the way to go Kanoito.  Two sets of tees thoughtfully placed every day based on course conditions including wind volume and direction would make for a fun way to play and help with pace of play.

[Kanoito]

I think that's the way to go Kanoito.  Two sets of tees thoughtfully placed every day based on course conditions including wind volume and direction would make for a fun way to play and help with pace of play.

 

A few selected courses offer an extra set of white tees for pro's, so unless you are one or want to make a fool out of yourself... you pretty much stick to the default male tees.

 

See? The course forces you... so one's manhood is not threatened

 

And for those who complain having one set of tees is too easy... I don't see them shooting low 70's

[PlaidJacket]

I like the idea but it still wouldn't convince a bunch of guys I know. They'd still want to play from as far back as possible. And these guys can't break an egg let alone 80! From the regular tee. LOL

[jbil8802]

I'm not sure I understand the logic at Kanoito's course. I'd say that 6400 yards is too long for about 90% of golfers that I've played with, met, or seen play. Not sure how that would speed up pace of play. Especially since I don't see any putting their egos aside and playing from the "women's" tees.

[revkev]

Interesting discussion and I would agree that 6200 is about right depending on the location of the course. Refpgardless two tees work. Play the course, that's what the pros do. It's set up differently every day and never uses its full yardage when they are there.

 

We have the same disease at our club Plaid thats the reason for our three tweener sets of tees, the Chairman, MGA and Sr. Chairman tees. That way the Gold tee group, Blue tee and White tee group can all brag about it but be at a little more manageable yardage We have six par 4's that will beat you up regardless of how long you hit the ball or whether you are playing, white, blue, gold or something in between. There is a reason why a course has a rating in the 140's from the back and 130's from its fifth set of tees.

[fozcycle]

Here's my club:

 

Pebble Creek Golf Club, Tampa FL

 

Blue: 71.1/127 6,436 yds

White: 69.1/122 6,032 yds

Senior(Gold) 66.3/111 5,516 yds

Red: 70.3/120 5,280 yds

 

 

I moved up to the Senior Tees at the end of December.....shot a 78 on my second round, then have had major issues with my swing the last 4 weeks(left shoulder tightness) and things have gone south....

[revkev]

Foz's course uses the classic Florida defense for a lack of elevation change. Many of his greens are slightly elevated so that it's tough to bounce it on, like playing to a table top.

[Chris O.]

Here is my home course...I'm too lazy to type it all out so I just attached a scorecard.

 

Ledges_Scorecard_Proof--3-27-15.pdf

 

I would assume the rating is up to date but I'm going to ask next time I'm up there. 

 

In the long term plan, they want to add some water to the front nine and make changes to two holes on the back nine. The changes will toughen up the front nine and make the back nine a little more playable, which is much needed IMO. The green on 15 is damn near the most unplayable green I've ever been on and 16 is the hardest hole I've ever played. With that being said if you're ever in the area, this is a must play course haha. 

[Jmikecpa]

My club:

 

Green 72.9/137 6,639

Blue 71.3/133 6,297

White 71/132 6,197

Black 73.2/128 5,617 (Women's rating)

Red 71/123 5,232 (Women's rating)

 

Considering that the course is at sea level and on the bay the course generally plays longer with the heavy air and the wind.  Overall from the tips it is fairly rated and not sure about the other tees since I have not played enough rounds from them to get a sense.

[Chris O.]

My club:

 

Green 72.9/137 6,639

Blue 71.3/133 6,297

White 71/132 6,197

Black 73.2/128 5,617 (Women's rating)

Red 71/123 5,232 (Women's rating)

 

Considering that the course is at sea level and on the bay the course generally plays longer with the heavy air and the wind. Overall from the tips it is fairly rated and not sure about the other tees since I have not played enough rounds from them to get a sense.

I like playing at my elevation. It pads my ego. We go to Palm Springs every spring and the ball goes no where, and that's with dry air. I can't imagine playing at your course, I'd give up the game.

 

 

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[SPY ZINGER]

I've run into issues with the "forward tees" with my dad (69). Courses are pushing to speed pace by playing the correct tees yet the forward tees are not rated for men. It can be a challenge for handicap and competition.

[Jmikecpa]

I like playing at my elevation. It pads my ego. We go to Palm Springs every spring and the ball goes no where, and that's with dry air. I can't imagine playing at your course, I'd give up the game.

 

 

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Now imagine Bethpage Black at 7,500 yards in the cold, damp air?  I play quite a bit in Vegas and easily a club to club and a half longer throughout the bag.

[Chris O.]

Now imagine Bethpage Black at 7,500 yards in the cold, damp air? I play quite a bit in Vegas and easily a club to club and a half longer throughout the bag.

Yeah I can't even imagine that. Just drives home the fact of how good the tour players really are.

 

 

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[revkev]

Yes in regards to tour players but please remember that while the course may be stretched to 7,500 they don't play it at that - they will adjust the tees according to conditions, desired pin placements and angles on par 3's and for turf preservation during a four day event. 

 

Just watch for the different yardages that the holes play at this upcoming week or if you recall last week at PGA National.  They try to make sure that those guys have to play a wide variety of shots well. 

 

We have the same issue down there in regards to distances and when it's wet in the summer or when we have an unusually wet winter like this one it gets ridiculous.  I'm glad that I don't play the tips or anything like them anymore.  Actually Jmike's course from the blues looks perfect for me!