Where is the line for Performance Enhancing.... Surgeries

[GolfSpy TCB]

Since there is an overwhelming topic in the golf world, and really... the sports world this week for obvious reasons... It makes me ponder the question... At what point does surgical enhancement to the human body cross the line for professional sports?  Performance Enhancing Drugs in sports banned both for health reasons and for the ability they have to give the athlete an unfair advantage.  As the medical technology continues to improve, will there come a time when athletes can "level up" their ability with surgery?  

I'm in no way saying any of the current news around reconstructive surgery and the incredible recovery on display in Georgia should be in question... but the discussion of plates, rods and pins does make me wonder where when technology will start exceeding the ability of the human body.... And will there ultimately be limitations or will we ultimately have a world of "Six Million Dollar" Men and Women playing professional sports.  For those of you not familiar with that pop reference... look up Steve Austin on Wiki.  

[BMart519]

The line is somewhere around the surgeries that would allow Tiger to continue his pursuit of majors on the LPGA tour. 

And with that, the moderators can go ahead and close this thread down  

[RickyBobby_PR]

Any surgery comes with risks and finding out what the advantages of one would be have to be tested. Which athlete is going to risk their career on an experimental surgery to improve by some unknown quantity.

Lets look at baseball. There are some pitchers who come back after Tommy John surgery throwing with more velocity. But that’s not a guarantee. So a pitcher with slower velocity could take a ~18 months off to have the surgery and rehab and come back better thus earning more in their next contract. I doubt you get anyone voluntarily opting for any surgery with no guarantees 

Lets talk Tiger and not beat around the bush of who/what’s being discussed. It’s not the surgery that’s done anything special. It’s the amount of work that Tiger has put in after surgery that’s gotten him to the point of being able to play this week barring anything that causes him to drop out before tomorrow. This guy has always worked harder than his peers. That work ethic is why he is who he is and why he comes back before expectations.

It’s these types of people that will always be the best and will do things normal people can’t/won’t.

I have a friend who tore both quads almost two weeks ago/ he’s been home from rehab facility for about a week. Two days after he came home he was in the gym training upper body while sitting in a wheel chair with his legs in 0° braces. He’s an elite level power lifter. Most people in his situation or even less severe would be at home taking it easy maybe even pondering never training again.

 

[GolfSpy TCB]

1 hour ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

Any surgery comes with risks and finding out what the advantages of one would be have to be tested. Which athlete is going to risk their career on an experimental surgery to improve by some unknown quantity.

Lets look at baseball. There are some pitchers who come back after Tommy John surgery throwing with more velocity. But that’s not a guarantee. So a pitcher with slower velocity could take a ~18 months off to have the surgery and rehab and come back better thus earning more in their next contract. I doubt you get anyone voluntarily opting for any surgery with no guarantees 

Lets talk Tiger and not beat around the bush of who/what’s being discussed. It’s not the surgery that’s done anything special. It’s the amount of work that Tiger has put in after surgery that’s gotten him to the point of being able to play this week barring anything that causes him to drop out before tomorrow. This guy has always worked harder than his peers. That work ethic is why he is who he is and why he comes back before expectations.

It’s these types of people that will always be the best and will do things normal people can’t/won’t.

I have a friend who tore both quads almost two weeks ago/ he’s been home from rehab facility for about a week. Two days after he came home he was in the gym training upper body while sitting in a wheel chair with his legs in 0° braces. He’s an elite level power lifter. Most people in his situation or even less severe would be at home taking it easy maybe even pondering never training again.

 

I agree with you RB, on multiple fronts except one... "I doubt you get anyone voluntarily opting for any surgery with no guarantees."  We can agree to disagree on that one.  But I could argue that athletes sometimes risk their career by taking PED's too... some knowingly accept that risk. Let's look at Tommy John Surgery....  Pro clubs are already sending their draft picks for the surgery before they ever throw a pitch for the club... they are willing to invest the time lost on the front end, and the risk associated with the surgery... rather than deal with it at a later stage of the player's career.  Granted, there is a contract in place for these guys... thus your comment about no guarantees... but that is today... who knows about tomorrow.+-

I have mad respect for Tiger's work and rehabilitation ethics... I wasn't beating around the bush on that point... nor was I in general... we all know who and what is in Augusta this week.  I'm just saying... his same injury 30 years ago.... possibly a different story and outcome without the current advancements in medical reconstruction (Hogan may be the exception to that... and if Hogan is an exception...so would be Tiger... simply amazing the path back he has undertaken on multiple occasions).  

So let me be clear again... I'm not talking about the current situation... or maybe even the current technology...  The fact that he is walking - let alone playing is a miracle and I hope he makes it to Sunday.  I'm extrapolating where we are currently and posing a theoretical question about future evolution in medical procedures and enhancements.  Let me use a personal reference.  Baseball was my life in high school and college. For medical reasons I had to give up my dream.  Sitting here today, had I had access to PED's at the time, or an offer of a potential surgical "fix"... even with knowing the risks and no guarantee.... I can't say 100% that I would have walked away from the opportunity.  Obviously, I didn't have (nor do I have) the elite mental make-up as Hogan, Tiger or your friend to overcome my limitations by hard work and pain... many don't.  

And I wish your friend a speedy recovery.

 

Edited April 6, 2022 by Tiftaaft

[RickyBobby_PR]

27 minutes ago, Tiftaaft said:

But I could argue that athletes sometimes risk their career by taking PED's too... some knowingly accept that risk. Let's look at Tommy John Surgery....  Pro clubs are already sending their draft picks for the surgery before they ever throw a pitch for the club... they are willing to invest the time lost on the front end, and the risk associated with the surgery... rather than deal with it at a later stage of the player's career.  Granted, there is a contract in place for these guys... thus your comment about no guarantees... but that is today... who knows about tomorrow.+-

PEDs have a known benefit that’s why athletes in all kinds of sports use them. They know they will see performance enhancements, they will benefit immediately from it and while it may cost them in the long run somehow whether it be losing their opportunity to participate due to suspension, health issues including death from use/overuse or from side effects, they are looking T the short term gains which are financial.

As for athletes getting Tommy John surgery early in the little I read about it in the past 1) it’s not a large number doing it 2) it’s has been based on what doctors know from those who needed it an asses that some might need this surgery at some point 3) they are doing it for long term health/career and not because they are going to be guaranteed to throw some number of mph faster or have improved control or any performance enhancements, it’s there to provide the potential to avoid it in the future while yes that could ne consider financial gain it’s from the perspective of longer playing career this more money earned.

 

As for the future medical advancements are always being made, anyone alive knows that and with the amount of technology out there and the geniuses that work in medical r&d, r&d in tecnhical fields there’s going to be more advancements that help people. While I not anyone will know what the limits of medicine and/or technology will be it’s going to take someone having to go thru a procedure because something happened and then for others to see the results from that before we know the befits and capabilities.