Premium Driver Shaft or New Driver?

[CSiders12]

I am currently gaming the Callaway Rogue ST LS driver. I was "fit" to the driver two years ago. I put that in quotations because I had never been fit for a driver before, and basically, the only thing I was fit for was the driver head. I previously had a 55-gram stiff flex shaft in a Taylormade M2 driver. I was swinging around 116-119 mph so that clearly wasn't the shaft for me. The guy who fit me just put me in an X-stiff shaft but didn't try different shaft options. I have never been able to hit my driver consistently or the way I want to. So, that got me thinking about trying new driver shaft options. 

I have been coaching high school golf this year and was working with some of the players this week on how to hit a driver. I haven't been bringing my driver into the range, I simply take their drivers and use them to demonstrate. Some of their drivers, which are not fit to me, are more consistent than my current driver. They all have different shaft options, so that really got me thinking... Is my driver shaft not the best option for me? 

I am looking for anyone who has upgraded their driver shaft, or at least changed to a different option, and is willing to share their thoughts on this. I want to go get fit again, but would probably look somewhere else to get a more in-depth fitting. 

[bens197]

If you’re thinking there’s something better out there then I will say with 100% certainty (from personal experience) that you will lack trust in this club until you find what else is out there.

I’d always recommend dialing it in and if that means a fitting then I would say go for it.

[RickyBobby_PR]

If you aren’t fit for your shaft and head combo there’s a good chance that you will have to compensate in the swing and fight the club to get what you want out of the shot. 
 
having the righr shaft for your swing and the head you have will give you a chance to hit better shots more consistently 

Two options do a bunch of self testing with your driver and other shafts and see what works, this could be taking your driver to somewhere like pgasuperstore and try different shafts, or buy some and try them. The second option is find a reputable fitter and get fit. This is usually going to be the easier route.

To an extent ignore flex. There’s no standard in the industry and a stiff in some brands could play better for you than x stiff in other brands. Something like the gradfalloy shafts play stiffer than their stamped flex. PX hzrdus shafts play stiffer than their stamped flex 

 

Edited March 25 by RickyBobby_PR

[GolfSpy_APH]

8 hours ago, CSiders12 said:

I am currently gaming the Callaway Rogue ST LS driver. I was "fit" to the driver two years ago. I put that in quotations because I had never been fit for a driver before, and basically, the only thing I was fit for was the driver head. I previously had a 55-gram stiff flex shaft in a Taylormade M2 driver. I was swinging around 116-119 mph so that clearly wasn't the shaft for me. The guy who fit me just put me in an X-stiff shaft but didn't try different shaft options. I have never been able to hit my driver consistently or the way I want to. So, that got me thinking about trying new driver shaft options. 

I have been coaching high school golf this year and was working with some of the players this week on how to hit a driver. I haven't been bringing my driver into the range, I simply take their drivers and use them to demonstrate. Some of their drivers, which are not fit to me, are more consistent than my current driver. They all have different shaft options, so that really got me thinking... Is my driver shaft not the best option for me? 

I am looking for anyone who has upgraded their driver shaft, or at least changed to a different option, and is willing to share their thoughts on this. I want to go get fit again, but would probably look somewhere else to get a more in-depth fitting. 

Go full buck wild and go new driver and new shaft. Often a new shaft is patch work and while the Rogue ST LS was good it seems like the newer models have taken a significant step forward. 

[itsjustagame]

Replaced my stock driver shaft with a Graphite Design MAD. Hardly a "premium" shaft, but the difference was well worth the price for me. 

Edited March 25 by itsjustagame

[gajrsports]

Go to a Callaway fitting and do both, shaft and head. Find the best option first then see which is best.

[Erin B]

It’s most always been a shaft, not the driver head for me. There are certain divers I don’t get along with like the Ping 425, the PXGs, or the new TaylorMades, and drivers I do get along with like Cobras and Titleist. The Ping 410 is my favorite. But it’s most every time been a shaft issue. Also the length of the shaft does matter. I was just fitted for drivers and found that I need a 45” instead of a 46” driver. I’m best at 60-65 grams. I’m best at a stiff or stiff plus and depending on shaft I may need it tipped. 

[BeeGee]

I agree with the notion that the shaft flex stamped is not always correct.  I had a Taylormade years ago that I could hit dead straight but it didn't seem to go anywhere, I took the driver to a fitter in my area and found out that the "Stiff" shaft actually tested at a "XXStiff".  Once I made the switch to the correct shaft, I gained distance and still had a good dispersion.  A new shaft can do a few things to help you, it can help with distance, flight, dispersion, and even contact by the way it loads during the swing.  The answer to get a fitting for a new shaft comes down to if you like the look, sound, feel of your current gamer or are you to the point where you have no confidence with that club and how much money do you want to invest.  A new driver with an upgraded shaft will put you close if not over that $1,000 threshold but the driver head you have is already paid for.  Good luck with your decision!

[Ray Eaton]

Your current shaft could be just find. Have you taken it to someone that can counter balance the shaft?

[Trevor613]

I would recommend going to an independent club fitter that has a good reputation and has options from all manufacturers.  Club Champion can be expensive, but I think they have a special going right now that the fitting is free if you purchase the club from them.  Even so, I think a driver fitting is typically $100; well worth your time to be able to try out several club head and shaft options. Everything is using trackman and into a screen; however, I found the process to be incredibly thorough; and since they are brand agnostic, you won't be pushed into anything. They can also help dial in what you are currently using and if they can't improve upon what you have there is no obligation to buy new equipment. I was very skeptical at first, but I can say for certain that it was worth my time and money. I don't have the desire, or cash, to change clubs every year. I wanted to ensure that what I was getting could serve me well for the next 5+ years...Club Champion was the best way for me to get that level of equipment and service. Not to mention, they stand by their service and will do what it takes to ensure you're satisfied.

[Ajax71]

My 2 cents. The last fitting I got was for the PING i20,  so 15 years ago roughly. I've had a few new PING drivers since then (all adjustable, i20 was pre-adjustable hosel) and since I live 3 hours from the closest fitter, I use the online fitting tools and buy and install them myself and then practice. Never had a fit like the i20 and I kept going more into the premium shafts to find that performance. i20 had a $50 Proforce shaft in it and I could hit any shot I wanted. Since then, I found pretty good fits, but not like that. Just this year I stuck a Fujikura Vista Pro 6X in my G425 and found the magic again. It was made in 2021 and cost $90, compared to the $350 Ventus I had in it before.  Moral of the story- try a bunch but don't overlook cheaper options. Swings are unique and all the bend profile descriptions and torque numbers in the world, and prices, won't necessarily tell you which shaft you need.

[David Leighton Reid]

I live an hour from golf shops that perform fitting, so I do my research and experiment with different shafts.  A couple of years ago, I purchased a Fuji Ventus Velocore and really liked that shaft, until I decided to try a lighter weight with more flex.  For me and my swing, I found the lighter weight and more flexible shafts easier to swing.  I agree with those that have mentioned above about there isn't much consistency in flex across the manufacturers.  I currently have a UST Mamiya MP5 in ladies flex in my Ping G425 Max driver set at 8 degrees and a Graffaloy ProLaunch Blue 45 in senior flex in a PXG Gen 5 driver.  The common traits of these two shafts are they are lightweight, have a lower torque number, and both are relatively inexpensive.  

@IndyBonzo has done a lot of research and has data comparing different shafts.  

The other option is to take advantage of the advertised forgiveness and distance of the new 10k drivers, as long as you like the OEM shaft.  

Edited March 25 by David Leighton Reid

[RickyBobby_PR]

2 hours ago, BeeGee said:

anywhere, I took the driver to a fitter in my area and found out that the "Stiff" shaft actually tested at a "XXStiff".  Once I made the switch to the correct shaft,

How can it test as XX stiff when there is no industry standard for how each shaft is measured to determine flex. 

From Tom Wishon.

Shaft Myth #3 – The letter flex code on the shaft tells me how stiff the shaft is

No it doesn’t because there are absolutely no standards in the golf industry for how stiff any of the shaft flex codes are. Every golf company and shaft company is free to determine how stiff their various shaft flex letter codes are to be. As a result it is very common for the R Flex from one company to be similar in stiffness to the S Flex from another company or the A Flex from a third company. Not only that, but it is very common for a flex in one model of shaft to be stiffer or more flexible than the same letter flex in a different shaft model from the same company! 

There is no better proof than to offer a clear illustration. Following is a graph comparison of 7 different R-Flex shafts, from 6 different companies. These shafts were all measured using the same methodology to graph the comparative stiffness at 7 identical points along the length of each different shaft. The numerical measurements represent cycles per minute (CPM) of frequency measured with a 454 gram weight on the tip end of the shaft. 

For comparison of the relative stiffness for all these R Flex shafts, focus on the CPM measurements for the 41 in and 36 in columns in the data chart. At these points on the grip end of the shaft, a difference of 7 CPM in the 41/36 measurements is equivalent to one full flex, based on averages from more than 2000 different shafts. (when the tip weight is reduced to 205g, a 10cpm difference is equivalent to one full flex level) As you can see, among these 7 shafts there is a relative stiffness difference of 28 CPM, which is nearly four full flexes – and yet all of these shafts are labeled by their respective companies as being an R Flex shaft.

see pic 1 for reference to the above statement.

 

Next let’s look at a graph comparison of a number of the R Flex shafts from different shaft models, all from the same company. Within these 6 different R Flex shafts all from the same company, can be seen a range in basic stiffness of 19.5 CPM, which equates to a difference of nearly 3 full flex levels. Yet all are labeled as R flex shafts.

See pic 2 for reference to above statement.

 

It is VERY IMPORTANT to understand that such variations are by intent and DO NOT represent a mistake or lack of quality in any manner by these companies. Remember, each company is free to determine their own standards for the actual stiffness for what each flex of each shaft is to be. It is not wrong – it just is the way it is. 

What’s wrong is when golfers do not know this and make buying decisions based only on a meaningless letter code imprinted on the shaft. So the next time you head out to buy a new club(s) or a new shaft, please remember that R does not equal R, S does not equal S, and none of the letter codes equal each other. If you want another good reason for why it is worth it to be professionally custom fit by an experienced custom Clubmaker, here is yet another one of many reasons to do so. Many of the experienced clubmakers are well aware of the variations among the flexes of all the shafts and can guide you into the very best shaft selection for YOUR swing characteristics.

2 hours ago, BeeGee said:

A new shaft can do a few things to help you, it can help with distance, flight, dispersion, and even contact by the way it loads during the swing. 

Not necessarily true and it’s usually those with a late release that will see some change in launch characteristics from a shaft design. If interested search 10 myths about shafts from Tom Wishon 

Shafts are a timing device and an incorrect fit will cause timing issues.

[RanMan]

I can help. Look. I researched and purchased a new shaft to try to improve go straighter , but it was a dismal failure.

Get fit—go with the full package. Don’t put good money into a bad fix. You will be better for it.

 

 

[fredsharky]

15 hours ago, CSiders12 said:

I am currently gaming the Callaway Rogue ST LS driver. I was "fit" to the driver two years ago. I put that in quotations because I had never been fit for a driver before, and basically, the only thing I was fit for was the driver head. I previously had a 55-gram stiff flex shaft in a Taylormade M2 driver. I was swinging around 116-119 mph so that clearly wasn't the shaft for me. The guy who fit me just put me in an X-stiff shaft but didn't try different shaft options. I have never been able to hit my driver consistently or the way I want to. So, that got me thinking about trying new driver shaft options. 

I have been coaching high school golf this year and was working with some of the players this week on how to hit a driver. I haven't been bringing my driver into the range, I simply take their drivers and use them to demonstrate. Some of their drivers, which are not fit to me, are more consistent than my current driver. They all have different shaft options, so that really got me thinking... Is my driver shaft not the best option for me? 

I am looking for anyone who has upgraded their driver shaft, or at least changed to a different option, and is willing to share their thoughts on this. I want to go get fit again, but would probably look somewhere else to get a more in-depth fitting. 

I am a tinkerer of the driver for some reason - I hit it well but I always looking for the that extra yard or tighter dispersion so I am trying different shafts on the regular.
One thing I like to do is once a year go get fit for a new driver (not purchase but fit). They will give me the all the specs of the new driver and then I will go out find what is like that. A lot of the shafts on the market are very similar to one another (not same but similar) so you can get very close to what you were fit for.

I am still gaming the Stealth 1 model and have changed shafts three times to find something that is working for me - right now I am gaming the Jupiter shaft from Steadfast golf - I get the tighter dispersion and lower spin for a little extra distance 

Personally the head to me is not as important - some others may disagree, but when getting fit almost all the heads hit pretty close to the same to me, it jsut depends on what shafts you try in them 

Anyways good look in your search 

[EnderinAZ]

Pretty much need to get fit. Like @Trevor613 I have used Club Champion and have been very pleased with the results. 

Getting into specifics about the fitting you will get all sorts of data points tossed at you, 90% of which you can safely ignore. One point I believe you have to pay attention to is "smash factor" which is just a fancy term for energy transfer (go's-into and go's-outa) how much energy you strike the ball with and how much speed  generated as the ball leaves the tee. A smash factor around 1.5 is about as good as anyone gets. If you hit your current club at say 1.47 smash factor and are not happy with the distance you can try a new shaft but that will change your base swing characteristics. As @GolfSpy_APH stated your equipment is getting up there in age and if you play a lot of golf the trampoline effect off the face of your driver may be wearing out a bit. 

My current Sim2 Max is starting to wear out. The tone off the face on a solid drive is changing, sightly off hits are losing significant distance, and I haven't changed my ball selection in a number of years. But when I have gone in to check on a new driver the best the fitters could do was give me 3 more yards. Yeah, nine whole feet. For 650+ dollars.

Nope...

[CSiders12]

8 hours ago, GolfSpy_APH said:

Go full buck wild and go new driver and new shaft. Often a new shaft is patch work and while the Rogue ST LS was good it seems like the newer models have taken a significant step forward. 

This is kind of what I am leaning toward. The hardest part about that is the cost of something brand new with an upgraded shaft. I could be looking at $750+ which is a hefty price to pay. However, that makes me think about Sub70 options or getting a driver from 1 or 2 years ago to help balance the cost. 

[Erin B]

58 minutes ago, fredsharky said:

I am a tinkerer of the driver for some reason - I hit it well but I always looking for the that extra yard or tighter dispersion so I am trying different shafts on the regular.
One thing I like to do is once a year go get fit for a new driver (not purchase but fit). They will give me the all the specs of the new driver and then I will go out find what is like that. A lot of the shafts on the market are very similar to one another (not same but similar) so you can get very close to what you were fit for.

I am still gaming the Stealth 1 model and have changed shafts three times to find something that is working for me - right now I am gaming the Jupiter shaft from Steadfast golf - I get the tighter dispersion and lower spin for a little extra distance 

Personally the head to me is not as important - some others may disagree, but when getting fit almost all the heads hit pretty close to the same to me, it jsut depends on what shafts you try in them 

Anyways good look in your search 

You hit the nail on the head.

[CSiders12]

5 hours ago, itsjustagame said:

Replaced my stock driver shaft with a Graphite Design MAD. Hardly a "premium" shaft, but the difference was well worth the price for me. 

I think "Premium" is also up for grabs. There are plenty of other shaft options that aren't premium that may work better for me. I think it comes down to just going and trying out a bunch of options. 

[CSiders12]

4 hours ago, Erin B said:

It’s most always been a shaft, not the driver head for me. There are certain divers I don’t get along with like the Ping 425, the PXGs, or the new TaylorMades, and drivers I do get along with like Cobras and Titleist. The Ping 410 is my favorite. But it’s most every time been a shaft issue. Also the length of the shaft does matter. I was just fitted for drivers and found that I need a 45” instead of a 46” driver. I’m best at 60-65 grams. I’m best at a stiff or stiff plus and depending on shaft I may need it tipped. 

When I originally went to get fitted, I had my heart and soul on the Ping G425, however, that was the one driver I couldn't hit to save my life. I know the driver head is important, but the shaft has so much affect on the swing and result. That's why I am really questioning what to do. 

[CSiders12]

3 hours ago, Ray Eaton said:

Your current shaft could be just find. Have you taken it to someone that can counter balance the shaft?

I have not. I have worked with a pro on driver lessons, but the consistency just isn't there. I would say it's more of a golfer problem and not a club problem, however, I am consistent with every other club in my bag. 

[Erin B]

Just now, CSiders12 said:

I think "Premium" is also up for grabs. There are plenty of other shaft options that aren't premium that may work better for me. I think it comes down to just going and trying out a bunch of options. 

Newton, Steadfast, and others out there. Newton is premium but they have a dem program and great customer service. Steadfast is cheaper, has a great product, but customer service needs to get a bit better, not that I’ve had a problem with them, but others have. Good luck!

[Erin B]

2 minutes ago, CSiders12 said:

When I originally went to get fitted, I had my heart and soul on the Ping G425, however, that was the one driver I couldn't hit to save my life. I know the driver head is important, but the shaft has so much affect on the swing and result. That's why I am really questioning what to do. 

I can’t hit the 425 with any shaft.

[CSiders12]

3 hours ago, Trevor613 said:

Club Champion was the best way for me to get that level of equipment and service. Not to mention, they stand by their service and will do what it takes to ensure you're satisfied.

It's funny you bring up Club Champion. The whole reason I got thinking about this was because of their YouTube channel. I watch a lot of golf on Youtube and have been watching the Club Champion channel for a couple of years. They go in-depth into every fitting and really look at the data to support their claims. This is something I would love to experience. 

[GolfSpy_APH]

9 minutes ago, CSiders12 said:

This is kind of what I am leaning toward. The hardest part about that is the cost of something brand new with an upgraded shaft. I could be looking at $750+ which  is a hefty price to pay. However, that makes me think about Sub70 options or getting a driver from 1 or 2 years ago to help balance the cost. 

There is also nothing saying a stock x flex shaft may be great for you. Thankfully most companies have a good assortment of stock options.

[CSiders12]

2 hours ago, David Leighton Reid said:

I live an hour from golf shops that perform fitting, so I do my research and experiment with different shafts.  A couple of years ago, I purchased a Fuji Ventus Velocore and really liked that shaft, until I decided to try a lighter weight with more flex.  For me and my swing, I found the lighter weight and more flexible shafts easier to swing.  I agree with those that have mentioned above about there isn't much consistency in flex across the manufacturers.  I currently have a UST Mamiya MP5 in ladies flex in my Ping G425 Max driver set at 8 degrees and a Graffaloy ProLaunch Blue 45 in senior flex in a PXG Gen 5 driver.  The common traits of these two shafts are they are lightweight, have a lower torque number, and both are relatively inexpensive.  

@IndyBonzo has done a lot of research and has data comparing different shafts.  

The other option is to take advantage of the advertised forgiveness and distance of the new 10k drivers, as long as you like the OEM shaft.  

I agree that a more expensive option isn't always the greatest. Years ago, I had a HZRDOUS Smoke Black and loved it. Those shafts aren't nearly as expensive as a Ventus with Velocore. The shafts I have used from some of my high school players are Regular, Regular Plus, and Stiff flex. They also range from 55-70 grams. I would love to deep dive into trying a bunch of different options to fit my current swing. A swing which is much different than what it was two years ago. 

[CSiders12]

1 hour ago, fredsharky said:

Personally the head to me is not as important - some others may disagree, but when getting fit almost all the heads hit pretty close to the same to me, it jsut depends on what shafts you try in them 

I would agree 100%. Something that looks good behind the ball and promotes confidence will perform. The shaft has so much to do with the outcome. I really think a great golfer can look average with incorrect fitting. Vice versa as well. 

[RickyBobby_PR]

25 minutes ago, CSiders12 said:

This is kind of what I am leaning toward. The hardest part about that is the cost of something brand new with an upgraded shaft. I could be looking at $750+ which is a hefty price to pay. However, that makes me think about Sub70 options or getting a driver from 1 or 2 years ago to help balance the cost. 

What makes you think you need an upgraded shaft? There are plenty of good no upcharge shafts that plenty of people get fit into quite frequently and in many cases an upcharge shaft didn’t perform nearly as good as a made for shaft or a widely used no upcharge shaft.

Telling a fitter what your budget is will help guide them to ensuring they get you fit into what matches your budget

17 minutes ago, CSiders12 said:

It's funny you bring up Club Champion. The whole reason I got thinking about this was because of their YouTube channel. I watch a lot of golf on Youtube and have been watching the Club Champion channel for a couple of years. They go in-depth into every fitting and really look at the data to support their claims. This is something I would love to experience. 

I’m guessing you are referring to the videos with Ian. Ian was the owner/founder of TXG and most of their videos were done under that brand and only recently was the channel and social media channels were changed to reflect the CC brand which was a merger the two companies had over a year or so ago.

ian and his team are far and above knowledge wise than what will be found at CC. Ian’s approach is much different than what’s been taught pushed at cc as well. CC for the most part starts with shaft where Ian and nearly all fitters start with head first and use the shaft to fine tune 

[taylorjonasher]

1 hour ago, CSiders12 said:

This is kind of what I am leaning toward. The hardest part about that is the cost of something brand new with an upgraded shaft. I could be looking at $750+ which is a hefty price to pay. However, that makes me think about Sub70 options or getting a driver from 1 or 2 years ago to help balance the cost. 

I went to Austad's in Cedar Rapids and got fit for the Titleist TSR3. I tried the TSR2 and the 3, both with 3 or 4 shafts each before I was finally dialed in. They did not charge me the fitting fee since I purchased that day. I went in knowing that I wanted to the TSR2, TSR3, and TM Stealth 2 ahead of time. The first swing with the 3 after trying the 2 I was instantly sold and knew it was the one. I worked through three other shafts but then came back to the Tensei black 1K. Total price was $600 + tax. Worst case scenario is you try a couple differents heads with a bunch of shafts and drop $100 - $150 to know your numbers. 

I'd put together a couple of different items on your wish list and take it in somewhere in the area. I've heard great things about Golfletics in Coralville as well as the pro shop at Blue Top Ridge in Riverside. I had Brenda at Austad's and she was awesome. 

[CSiders12]

4 minutes ago, taylorjonasher said:

I went to Austad's in Cedar Rapids and got fit for the Titleist TSR3. I tried the TSR2 and the 3, both with 3 or 4 shafts each before I was finally dialed in. They did not charge me the fitting fee since I purchased that day. I went in knowing that I wanted to the TSR2, TSR3, and TM Stealth 2 ahead of time. The first swing with the 3 after trying the 2 I was instantly sold and knew it was the one. I worked through three other shafts but then came back to the Tensei black 1K. Total price was $600 + tax. Worst case scenario is you try a couple differents heads with a bunch of shafts and drop $100 - $150 to know your numbers. 

I'd put together a couple of different items on your wish list and take it in somewhere in the area. I've heard great things about Golfletics in Coralville as well as the pro shop at Blue Top Ridge in Riverside. I had Brenda at Austad's and she was awesome. 

That's awesome that you are from the area! I was looking up Austad's and am leaning toward that location. It sounds like they are much more in-depth than other local places.