Pace of play

[Cruise]

So I work at a semi private golf club. Some folks, usually members or better players, complain the pace of play is too slow.  What can a busy course do to achieve an acceptable pace of play up?  We average 4 to 4 1/2 hours per round. Granted better players can play at a pace which is less than 4 hrs, however when you mix in all the different ability levels for all the different players on a weekend day is our average an acceptable pace?  It’s like folks forgot how long a round took them when they first started playing.  I would love to hear feedback from the masses!  Thanks for the input 

[RickyBobby_PR]

4-4.5 hours is a normal pace of play. There’s not much to do to have the pace of play for the course to be faster than that. Unless the course spreads tee times way out which I doubt would be beneficial to the course 

[goaliedad30]

What are your tee time intervals? At 8 or 9 minutes, it will slow down. 10 minutes should make 4 hours or less do-able by most.

[Cruise]

We use 10 minute intervals 

[goaliedad30]

At 10 minutes, you will end up at 4 hours best case, not counting the first groups out in the morning. 

[revkev]

Sadly I’m in agreement with the group - I have switched my membership from a private club to a semi private one. Golf experienced the COVID boom and has remained fairly strong, at least in my area, since. The private club’s pace of play went up significantly during that time from under 4 to over it. I can’t speak to the semi private one over time other than its pace of play seems to be between 4 and 4:15 currently, you do often wait over shits for a bit but nothing too egregious. 
 

I’d prefer shorter round but have learned to adapt. Honestly it was the last benefit of the private club and once the 330 hour rounds seemed past 4 I was ready to bolt.
 

I play enough area courses to know this is the norm - there are a couple of courses that are far worse. One is a muni so nothing is changing there - I always walk when I play it which helps because there’s a bit less waiting. The other is a high end daily fee course that used to host a Tour event - it’s issue is people playing the wrong set of tees - they do nothing to monitor it - great track always in good shape I rarely play there - rounds push 5 hours plus - I’d quit first at that pace. 

Edited Sunday at 11:16 AM by revkev

[RickyBobby_PR]

12 hours ago, Cruise said:

We use 10 minute intervals 

Going any further out is going to probably cost the club the chance at getting the same number of groups out each day, which affects the money the course makes.

Those groups who are complaining about 4-4.5 rounds might have some unreal expectations. 

[DaveP043]

16 hours ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

4-4.5 hours is a normal pace of play. 

I agree, that's my experience in the US.  Yet at many courses in Scotland, the expectation is 3:45, and 3:30 is pretty common, for 4 players all walking.  Course design has an impact, but the attitude of players is also a factor.  The locals just play more efficiently.

49 minutes ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

Those groups who are complaining about 4-4.5 rounds might have some unreal expectations. 

Agree completely.  At my home course I'm pretty happy at 4 hours, even though I like to play faster, and I only begin to complain when it gets over 4:30.

[GaryF]

17 hours ago, Cruise said:

So I work at a semi private golf club. Some folks, usually members or better players, complain the pace of play is too slow.  What can a busy course do to achieve an acceptable pace of play up?  We average 4 to 4 1/2 hours per round. Granted better players can play at a pace which is less than 4 hrs, however when you mix in all the different ability levels for all the different players on a weekend day is our average an acceptable pace?  It’s like folks forgot how long a round took them when they first started playing.  I would love to hear feedback from the masses!  Thanks for the input 

I’m at a private club and out expected PoP is around 4:10 with tee time intervals of 10 min.  4-4.5 hr rounds is reasonable and as an average will be very difficult to do any better if the course is busy.  I’d speculate the majority of golfers, good and bad, are ok with this.  But like anything else, those that complain are the loudest.  

[RetiredBoomer]

8 minutes ago, DaveP043 said:

I agree, that's my experience in the US.  Yet at many courses in Scotland, the expectation is 3:45, and 3:30 is pretty common, for 4 players all walking.  Course design has an impact, but the attitude of players is also a factor.  The locals just play more efficiently.

Agree completely.  At my home course I'm pretty happy at 4 hours, even though I like to play faster, and I only begin to complain when it gets over 4:30.

When I used to play on weekends, I can remember rounds well in excess of five hours, approaching six, and yet, it never bothered me.  Now or then, golf wasn't and isn't something that I do or did when I was in a hurry.  I like the fresh air outdoors, and I like the leisurely pace.

On weekdays, which is the only time I play now, the course isn't crowded and the rounds don't take too long.  Still, the internet has been a revelation to me.  At our club, I never hear discussions about pace of play.  Apparently, however, it's a major thing among contemporary players.  In any case, it's a caution to not wander away from my geriatric friends who play on weekdays.  

I hope, of course, that everybody finds a situation in which they can play at a pace that they enjoy.   

 

[GolfSpy_APH]

4 to 4.5 is what I would consider normal. For those not liking it or finding it slow, they can work harder to be one of the first groups out instead. 

[funkyjudge]

3 hours ago, RetiredBoomer said:

When I used to play on weekends, I can remember rounds well in excess of five hours, approaching six, and yet, it never bothered me.  Now or then, golf wasn't and isn't something that I do or did when I was in a hurry.  I like the fresh air outdoors, and I like the leisurely pace.

On weekdays, which is the only time I play now, the course isn't crowded and the rounds don't take too long.  Still, the internet has been a revelation to me.  At our club, I never hear discussions about pace of play.  Apparently, however, it's a major thing among contemporary players.  In any case, it's a caution to not wander away from my geriatric friends who play on weekdays.  

I hope, of course, that everybody finds a situation in which they can play at a pace that they enjoy.   

 

That would certainly bother the hell out of me! Weekend or not, an 18-hole round of golf should NEVER take more than 4:20, and that is only when the course is extremely difficult or has significant distances between greens and tees for the next hole. Otherwise, I think that a reasonable pace of play for 18 holes should be 4:00.

Three weeks ago, I played golf on six great championship courses in Scotland, and our slowest round was played in 4:12. That was at The Old Course at St Andrews, where there was a bit of stopping to take pictures.  The other five rounds ranged from 3:45 to 4:05.  There were six foursomes in our group, with golfers (both male and female) ranging from 36 to 82 years old, and handicap indexes from 5 to 20+. I was in the 5th or 6th foursome every day except for our last, where I played in the first foursome at North Berwick. That round was played in 3:45, and we were far from the first group off the tee that day, with a Friday morning tee time at about 11:20 AM.

Edited Sunday at 05:37 PM by funkyjudge

[Erin B]

2 minutes ago, funkyjudge said:

That would certainly bother the hell out of me! Weekend or not, an 18-hole round of golf should NEVER take more than 4:20, and that is only when the course is extremely difficult or has significant distances between greens and tees for the next hole. Otherwise, I think that a reasonable pace of play for 18 holes should be 4:00.

Don’t come play in Cheyenne on a weekend. 5 hours is normal on a weekend at my course.

[funkyjudge]

15 minutes ago, Erin B said:

Don’t come play in Cheyenne on a weekend. 5 hours is normal on a weekend at my course.

Is that an extraordinary difficult course, or one that is spread out over 220 acres?

[funkyjudge]

I have been known to walk off the course after the front nine when that front nine has taken more than 2:30 to play.

[RetiredBoomer]

34 minutes ago, funkyjudge said:

That would certainly bother the hell out of me! Weekend or not, an 18-hole round of golf should NEVER take more than 4:20, and that is only when the course is extremely difficult or has significant distances between greens and tees for the next hole. Otherwise, I think that a reasonable pace of play for 18 holes should be 4:00.

 

I get it. 

I'm the exception.  I don't regard myself as a slow player, although I do prefer hitting in traditional formal order over "ready golf," and that's how we play.

I do believe in etiquette and making every effort to play with reasonable time efficiency.
I generally walk up to a putt and hit it.

If it is slow out there, however, I handle it pretty well.
If I'm playing golf, I'm not in a hurry to do anything else.
I can see from this forum that this clearly isn't the case for most.

 

 

[chisag]

... Sadly golf has changed and there are more than a few that think golf isn't a social athletic endeavor but a party on wheels. We have had several rounds this past spring after the snowbirds all left and got was approaching 100* so we got to play at our own pace with nobody in front or behind. We all walk, two of us with ZIP remote controlled carts but our oldest, an 82 yr old uses a push cart. There are some elevation changes so our winter course is far from flat but we played in 3:45 - 3:50. 

... I wouldn't say we took our time nor would I say we rushed. We just played ready golf with lots of walking and taking. For my money, just under 4 hours is plenty of time for 4 senior walkers. 4:15 seems to drag and 4:30 is just too long. I find setting a pace is essential to having a fun round as well as scoring. Adjusting the walking pace to match the group in front allows you to just play at a steady pace with little standing and waiting. I find the worst case scenario is those betting and bringing things to ab absolute crawl on the greens. They seem to play at a normal pace or even a little faster from tee to green, the turn into a mini Major on the greens stalking 2nd and 3rd putts from every angle and not til it is their turn. It makes a steady pace almost impossible. 

... And that is for actual golfers looking to play the game as their primary endeavor. Last week we were behind the typical Bro Group, blaring rap from their carts that could be heard a few fairways over. They were on the very first green putting when the cart Gil was passing on the way to restock at the clubhouse and they literally ran off the green with their balls still in view and took almost 10 minutes to get all their drinks and ice with obvious lingering with the very attractive young lady smiling and putting up with them. As the round progressed it was obvious they were more interested in a mobil party than playing golf. It was close to a 4.5 hour round and in 111* heat much longer than it needed to be. 

... I think everyone has their own personal target pace. For some it is 3:30 or less and others 4:15 or more. We share the course with players of all abilities so compromise is almost always necessary but if everyone was considerate to others, right around 4 hours splits the difference and should be the goal. Of course it only takes one group to bring the course to s standstill and you can only play as fast as the group in front of you.   

[GaryF]

I think issues with slower pace of play also factors into why the round is taking longer than what feels comfortable.  For recreational rounds. Proper etiquette does dictate ready golf, and even if a group wants to play in order should not preclude others from assessing and preparing for their next shot.  Most of our rounds are played with riding carts because of terrain issues and green to tee distances.  Some do walk and they aren’t usually the slow ones.

One example, a 2-some in front of us with a cart, both nearly even in the fairway - one on the far right, one far left,  and they take the cart to one ball.  Wait for the first to hit, then drive to the second ball.  This is a 2-4 minute delay.  Once arriving at the first ball, golfer 1 should get his club then golfer 2 should move to their ball.

A different example - a couple playing with their 6 and 8 year old.  Parents playing quickly and ready golf.  Then they tee up for the kids 120 yards from the green and help with their setup.  The parents are moving quickly but it does take extra time. The kids are learning and the parents are trying to keep things moving while letting the kids learn and enjoy.  To me, this is absolutely fine.  Usually parents will bring kids late in the afternoon or less busy times.
 

[RetiredBoomer]

30 minutes ago, chisag said:

... I think everyone has their own personal target pace. For some it is 3:30 or less and others 4:15 or more. We share the course with players of all abilities so compromise is almost always necessary but if everyone was considerate to others, right around 4 hours splits the difference and should be the goal. Of course it only takes one group to bring the course to s standstill and you can only play as fast as the group in front of you.   

I think that wasting time with thoughtless behavior and unnecessary posturing is indeed something we should all try to avoid.  Slow play doesn't particularly bother me very much, but it obviously bothers most, so we should all try to be at least somewhat considerate.

Then again, it all crosses swords with maintenance costs, a subject that always gets discussed separately but is very much related.

The more a course resembles a beautiful manicured park, the faster it plays.
The more  "natural" it appears, the slower it's going to be to play.

People argue against this theory of mine all of the time,
but I think a lot of it is wishful thinking. I've never head an argument that's convincing.

Our club's course is happily relatively fast to play with a minimum of "natural" areas coming into play.   

 

 

 

[chisag]

35 minutes ago, RetiredBoomer said:

Slow play doesn't particularly bother me very much, but it obviously bothers most, so we should all try to be at least somewhat considerate.

 

... Good for you.   I am semi retired so slow play isn't an inconvenience for me under normal circumstances. But on a very hot day, standing still in 110*+ is most unpleasant. And with a balky back standing around in one spot behind a slow group can cause it to stiffen up so I circle like a tiger in a zoo to keep in motion. Then there are those with time constraints that still work, have kids at home or just don't have the free time some of us do. Play a little slower than "normal" should always be expected but egregiously slow should not. 

... Winter in Phoenix is always crowded and I would say most rounds are right around the 4-4:15 mark. Occasionally we play a little faster or a little slower. What really sucks are those visiting from a cold/snowy climate and actually desiring to take 5 hours or more to play. I talked with a twosome from Minnesota that left below zero wind chills and wanted the round to take "as long as possible" which I found amazingly selfish. They could have a beer and/or some food on the patio after the round and enjoy the warm weather watching other on the 9th and 18th holes. And that kinda sums it up, some people are just selfish and don't care how their actions effect others. Thankfully they are the exceptions. 

Edited Sunday at 07:25 PM by chisag

[revkev]

Yes the biggest issue with slow play in a places like Phoenix or Florida is time spent in excessive heat.

When we tee’d off today at 250 the heat I decided was north of 100 -our 3rd begged off - I’m not spending 4 plus hours in that heat. As we tee’d off the starter told us the group shed was a 4 some with a dad and his kids. They had already been told to let us through at the first available spot - that was 3. We caught a group on 6, they let us through on 7.  By the time we next saw the original group that let us through we were heading to our tee shots on 12 and they were approaching the green on 8. By then it was cloudy and breezy, the heat index was a pleasant 89 and we were rolling. 
 

Finished our round in 3:05 —- As I was leaving the course I saw the second group that we played through walking onto the 17th green/ for the record I don’t 81 and my partner 88. 
 

[Skootgolfer1972]

Golf courses should give discounts money back or credits for finishing under certain timeframe. Under 4.5 hours get $10 discount or something and penalize if over 5 hours. There’s some options out there, but gotta make it worth doing or not doing and have to have good rangers out there to keep groups from holding up fast moving groups or let them play through. 

[huggydougy]

You should be able to play at your own pace

Let faster players play thru

And enjoy your time on the corse

[Hans...not Franz]

For a recreational round inside the leather for putts and limit @ double bogey . We have a local course in southern Va where they will jam the course with a shotgun start , most tees will have A and B , then complain about pace of play ! 
A small reminder or coaching for newer players would help efficiency.

if a course needs to get more rounds in using the 10th tee to get a few more times in , but that will also require someone paying attention as they make the turn from 18 to 1 . 
 

[Albatrossx3]

On 6/22/2024 at 4:41 PM, Cruise said:

So I work at a semi private golf club. Some folks, usually members or better players, complain the pace of play is too slow.  What can a busy course do to achieve an acceptable pace of play up?  We average 4 to 4 1/2 hours per round. Granted better players can play at a pace which is less than 4 hrs, however when you mix in all the different ability levels for all the different players on a weekend day is our average an acceptable pace?  It’s like folks forgot how long a round took them when they first started playing.  I would love to hear feedback from the masses!  Thanks for the input 

Better players are not necessarily faster, many have bad habits and excessive routines.   The issue is golfers who have no idea that they can and should play faster, or how.  Let alone those that think a green fee is a pass to take all day ie play at their own pace. 

 

[Tallwood88]

My club has been asking where I have been. I haven't been playing very much with them this year and probably won't the rest of the year or at least until cooler weather comes in September. Why? Slow play. I won't stand around in 90-degree heat waiting on every single shot. It isn't fun for me. Because of this I am spending A LOT less time and money playing golf. I'm that guy the industry is concerned about.

[ReggieTurner44]

4 hours max, a 3 hour round is 10 minutes per hole, if its taking you more than 10 minutes to play a hole you need a new hobby. That being said more important is having the class to recognize faster players and allowing them to play through.

[tsheaffer23]

We are fortunate, we are the first groups that go off every Saturday morning at our club. Most days the vast majority walk, the average age is likely 60, handicaps range from 4-25. Even during club tournaments, a slow round for us is 3:45 hours, the usual pace is 3:15-3-3:20. It's not that challenging, you play ready golf, no one takes a gazillion practice swings, we don't over-analyze every putt from 72 different angles and don't look for lost balls for more than 3 minutes. It's not really that difficult to play in a timely manner, just many refuse to do so, and many have zero golf etiquette. 

[SteddyGolf]

You not only need to manage the behaviors of your slower groups but also the expectations of your faster ones as well.  Golf course managers have their hands full but the two areas which receive the most negative feedback are the quality of the greens and pace of play.  It is important to remember that hope is not a method.  You must implement controls measures to actively manage pace of play.  It starts with check-in then is reinforced by the starter and managed by your on course marshals. Time targets should be printed on scorecards and displayed on golf cart GPS systems.  Strategically located reminder signs at certain points throughout the golf course also help.  Finally, tee box management is a big key.  The most effective I have seen is having the starter direct groups to their appropriate tee box by asking about handicaps.  These same handicap ranges should be printed on the tee markers at the corresponding tee box.   

FYI.... Most people think it is your new and or high handicappers who cause the biggest problems with slow play.  In my experience it is your mid handicappers between 10 and 20 who slow things down the most.  They usually play in groups which try to emulate what that see on TV.  They spend an inordinate amount of time on the greens, use their range finders far too often and fiddle with their scorecards greenside opposed to moving on to the next hole.  A large majority of them mark every putt and putt out every ball.  While putting out in money games, tournaments or for handicap purposes is a must; in casual rounds one foot putts are general conceded in a gentlemen's game.  If each group adds just one minute per hole for any reason that amounts to an additionally 20 minutes per round.  Time adds up quick!   

 

Edited Monday at 10:49 AM by SteddyGolf

[golfjunky79]

I think a group of 4 should be able to play in around 4 hrs give or take. If im alone and nobody's infront of me average 2 hrs for 18 holes with a cart. I think there should be a time limit set per hole since every hole is diffrent longer or shorter so should the time limit and if a group cannot keep pace they should be forced to let the group behind them pass by and that keeps repeating if they cannot keep up so everyone else finishes in 4 to 4.5 hrs while the slow guy or gal finishes at there own pace 6 hrs plus for all i care. I also feel if your shooting an 8 on every hole you should be at the driving range getting better not at the course spending 6 hrs in the woods looking for your ball. The first year i played i bet i only played 18 holes 4 times maybe 5 but i spent 3 days a week at the range until i could shoot around 100 then i felt like i wouldnt be a burden on everyone else. Yesterday robins nest par 3 course took me an hour and 45 minutes to play 9 holes becasue the guy was giving 2 ladies on course lessons it looked like i was a single and he wouldnt let me pass so i hit a ball close to them still wouldnt let me pass. Finished 9holes decided to do 9 more there was noone there at this time i finished 9 holes in 45 minutes and i was walking with my push cart. I could go on and on but forcing people to let the faster players pass is my best guess to help pace of play. No one seems to have golf courtesy anymore id like to say its the younger generation but most the slow play is older people who wont let you pass or the guys partying and drunk on the course which burns me up.