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geopaas

A philosophical question about what's in my bag

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Fellow golfers:

 

The TL/DR version:

 

At what point at the bottom of the talent and skill scale is the quality of the club irrelevant to the golfer's ability (assuming a basic level of quality)?

 

The full version:

 

I love this game.  I've been playing for four months, finally, and I'm taking lessons and have the kind of life where I can either play, get to a driving range, practice putting, practice chipping and pitching, or any combination of these things every day.

 

As a beginner, I bought a decent set of used clubs, including a driver, wedges, woods, and a putter.  All good gear, all felt right in my hands, and all was well.

 

But as I've gotten more and more into this golf-thing, I've also started reading more about it on the blogs, looking at equipment reviews, trying out gadgets, etc. My clubs are at the very very least perfectly adequate.  I actually think they're top notch, but it's a very personal choice once you get past the data.

 

My skill level is nowhere near squeezing from these clubs their maximum capacity of speed, distance, and accuracy.  And that's OK.  I'm still learning.

 

I have a Ping G20 driver. I learned to hit from the tee with that club, and I'm usually more accurate than not, but as I said, I'm working on it.  Then I read the review (on this site) of the Cobra Fly Z, and I thought I'd give it a try. I found a used one, bought it, and took it for a spin today. I was less accurate rather than more, but I figured that was just the adjustment period.  I'll try again tomorrow.

 

But maybe the real problem is this: maybe it is irrelevant what brand with what features I use, as I can't take advantage of the nuanced differences between them.

 

And like most of the golfers I speak with, we fetishize and love our gear, and we seem to always want the next thing that has the potential to make our game better.

 

But again, I can't blame the tools for my lack of performance.  Can I credit them when I get good?

 

 


Geopaas

 

Irons:   Ping G15s (5 - GW)

SW:      Ping Eye

Putter:  Odyssey White Hot

Hybrids: Taylor Made R7 3h

         Honma 5h

Woods:   Taylor Made R15 3w

         Taylor Made R7 5w

         Taylor Made Aeroburner 7w (love this one)

Drivers: Cobra Fly Z

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Actually sometimes it can be the arrow so to speak and not the Indian. If the clubs are the wrong loft and lie or the wrong shaft or any number of factors. That is why I am a strong supporter of proper fitting of clubs to one individual's game and swing. 


Driver Homna  G1- X Stock Homna Regular shaft

4 wood Adams Tight Lies 

20* Hybrid Adams Boxer Ozik Matrix R shaft

24* Hybrid Adams A 10-OS Pro Launch Red R

Irons 5 thru PW 1980 Macgregor VIP Hogan Apex #2 shafts

SW- Macgregor LRA 56* S-400

Putter 1997 Santa Fe rusty as heck

 

 

 

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Actually sometimes it can be the arrow so to speak and not the Indian. If the clubs are the wrong loft and lie or the wrong shaft or any number of factors. That is why I am a strong supporter of proper fitting of clubs to one individual's game and swing.

Same here. Even a basic one for beginners can be huge for their game.


Driver:   :callaway-small: Epic 10.5 set to 9.5 w/ Tour AD-DI 44.5

FW:   :cobra-small: F6 baffler set at 16º

Hybrid:  NONE
Irons:   :taylormade-small:  3i 2014 TP CB  4-PW 2011 TP MC w/ TT S400

Wedges:   :nike-small: 52º :nike-small: 56º  :edel-golf-1: 60 º w/ KBS C-Taper XS Soft-stepped

Putter:   :ping-small: Sigma G Tyne 34 inches Gold dot

 

 

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My guess is that since you have started lessons, your instructor should be able to help with this, if the clubs you have aren't right he should be able to see it.


Lefties are always in their Right Mind

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Don't get me wrong, I really love my clubs, and so far my new driver feels better than my old. And I would love to have properly fitted clubs, but I'm not willing (yet) to lay out that kind of cash. I want to get better first so that the benefits of custom fit clubs follows my skill level rather than leads it. But as I type this, I think, huh, maybe that's what I need to actually get better. Isn't it worth the investment ...

 

But not yet.

 

But the question remains, can top rated gear be too good for the hands it is in?


Geopaas

 

Irons:   Ping G15s (5 - GW)

SW:      Ping Eye

Putter:  Odyssey White Hot

Hybrids: Taylor Made R7 3h

         Honma 5h

Woods:   Taylor Made R15 3w

         Taylor Made R7 5w

         Taylor Made Aeroburner 7w (love this one)

Drivers: Cobra Fly Z

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But the question remains, can top rated gear be too good for the hands it is in?

 

Yes, it can. Like STU mentioned before... take the M1 for example, #1 on MGS Most Wanted, add some low-spin upcharge shaft, pair it a 9.5* 430cc head and give it to a complete 70 yeard old beginner with SS of 80mph. Chances are, the results won't be too promising.

 

Is the driver bad? Not at all, that combo of $500+ could easily yield the best drives in the right hands... but in this case, the indian just can't handle it.

 

Take another example: PXG irons (I personally haven't hit them, but guys who have swear by them). Give them to a beginner and they will probably have better results with their SGI irons.


:cobra-small: SpeedZone 9* w/ Aldila Rogue Silver 60 S
:callaway-small: X2 Hot 3 Deep 14.5* w/ Aldila Tour Green 75 S
:taylormade-small: JetSpeed 5W 19* w/ Matrix Velox T 69 S OR :adams-small: Super LS 3H 19* w/ Kuro Kage Black 80 S
:mizuno-small: JPX919 Forged 4-PW w/ Modus3 105 S
:titelist-small: Vokey SM7 50/08F, 54/14F & 58/08M w/ Modus3 115 Wedge
:EVNROLL: ER1 34" w/ SuperStroke Fatso 2.0
MfleKCg.jpg Pro / 9dZCgaF.jpgH2NO Lite Cart Bag / :Clicgear: 3.0 / :918457628_PrecisionPro: NX7 Pro LRF

My reviews: MLA Putter // Titleist SM7 // PING i500 // PuttOUT

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Good question. There is a certain point I'd argue. It's pretty much the point where you hit the ball 50 yards with a full swing every club and have no idea where it's going. The honest truth is a good fitting can save you strokes, help you out and keep any swing flaws from developing. Playing a set at least a half inch long for years ingrained some harsh habits. The only thing I'd suggest is that don't feel pressured to buy right away. Give yourself and the coach the time to groove at least something resembling consistency and then go out and make a purchase.


 Driver:   :callaway-small:  Epic Flash 12 Degree

Wood: :callaway-small:  GBB 3 Wood
Hybrid: :callaway-small: Razr 4 hybriid stiff stock shaft.
Irons: :callaway-small: X2 Hot 4 iron (pro version) 5 iron - Gap Wedge (non pro version).  KBS 120g Shaft stiff cut 1/2  inch bent 1°upright
Wedges: :vokey-small: 52° 56° and 60°.
All grips are Golf pride grips midsized
Putter (lefty):  Odyssey Metal-X #8 34", stock shaft bent 2° Superstroke grip
Golf Balls:   :titelist-small: 2018-9 Pro-V1x and Prov1s
Shoes:  :footjoy-small:  Dryjoy tours

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It sounds like you are falling into the marketing vortex.  Everything that comes out is better, longer, faster, stronger, more nutritious, better for your health, will make you popular with your peers, will make you beautiful, will make local hotties want you, will make you more viral, will.......... 

 

Fact is you cannot buy a good game.  Trying will lead to thousands of dollars wasted on a closet full of clubs that gather dust.    

 

The difference between any brand spanking new club and a quality used club will be incremental.  Fit will be more important than new technology.  What may be best for another golfer may be the worst thing for your game.  What a player uses on the PGA tour is irrelevant to what most of us should be using.  

 

Get fit.  Golf is frustrating enough that you don't need improperly fit equipment to make it more difficult.  Proper fit will show you that it is the archer and not the arrow.  You won't build in compensations for an ill fit club that you have to undo when you get properly fit.  Loft, lie, length and the proper shaft make a big difference.  The individual brand, 820 carbon fused hyper extended multi-lyered speed inducing slot channeled forged centered cast overlays Z-soled boron inserts micro milled tri-metal faced clubs, not so much.  

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I would second what Alfriday says - in fact there are fitters that will evaluate your entire bag and then tweak what you have, lie, shaft, lofts can be altered or changed relatively cheaply.


Ping G410 - set at 12 degrees, fade setting - Fujikura Motore X R flex

Ping G410 5-9 wood

G30 6-PW -  Aerotech FT 500 shafts

SCOR 48,52,56,60

EVNRoll ER 5

Titleist Pro VIx optic yellow with revkev stamped on them

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Equipment is always relevant regardless of skill level.  Though most factors for this pertain to clubs/shafts that don't match your swing.   Can top rated gear be too good for the hands it is in?  I think no.  Now I wouldn't tell a beginner to go get a set of blades, but there are game improvement irons that are considered "top rated".  You mentioned that you are taking lessons.  I assume (hope) from a pro.  Speak with him/her about possible deficiencies with your current clubs.  He/she should be able to measure and adjust your loft/ lie, and potentially length for a minimal investment.   


:ping-small: S57 DG S300 stiff

 

:taylormade-small:  M1 430 8.5 Matrix Black Tie 

 

:ping-small:  Tour Wedges stiff

 

:taylormade-small:  SLDR 16* mini driver Fuji Speeder stiff

 

:taylormade-small: SLDR 21* hybrid Fuji Speeder stiff

 

:cameron-small: Futura  Superstroke mid slim 2.0

 

:taylormade-small:  project (a) #7's

 

 

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Have your current clubs adjusted to your body size and swing. Replace the grips if they are worn. If necessary... consider replacing the shafts. Play a good quality ball with a urethane cover. These things will not cost all that much. Continue with your lessons. Find better golfers you can play with an learn from. Work more on your short irons and putting. Improve as much as possible before taking the next step. $$$$$

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My Sun Mountain bag currently includes:   TWGTLogo2.png.06c802075f4d211691d88895b3f34b75.png 771CSI 5i - PW and TWGTLogo2.png.06c802075f4d211691d88895b3f34b75.png PFC Micro Tour-c 52°, 56°, 60 wedges

                                                                               :755178188_TourEdge: EXS 10.5*, TWGTLogo2.png.06c802075f4d211691d88895b3f34b75.png 929-HS FW4 16.5* 

                                                                                :edel-golf-1: Willimette w/GolfPride Contour

 

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Don't get me wrong, I really love my clubs, and so far my new driver feels better than my old. And I would love to have properly fitted clubs, but I'm not willing (yet) to lay out that kind of cash. I want to get better first so that the benefits of custom fit clubs follows my skill level rather than leads it. But as I type this, I think, huh, maybe that's what I need to actually get better. Isn't it worth the investment ...

 

But not yet.

 

But the question remains, can top rated gear be too good for the hands it is in

 

When I first started out, I was handed my father's clubs. They were 20 years old, regular graphite shafts etc.... anyways not a good fit. But I worked at it and decided to go get fit for my irons. It made a difference. I also got the most forgiving, shovel-headed irons I could get. I've played lesser forgiving irons and had a hard time getting the ball up. My suggestions is play the most forgiving, easy to hit irons you can get. Get the most forgiving driver you can swing. Don't be afraid of getting hybrids and practice. Spend time around the practice greens and head over to the range every now and then. 


DRIVER:                  :mizuno-small:  ST190, 10.5*, Fujikura  Atmos Black Tour Spec 65g, Stiff flex, Golf Pride CP2 Wrap, midsize

HYBRIDS:    :adams-small:    Pro  2 hybrid 16*, Aldila Tour Red 75g, Stiff, Superstroke TX1 Midsize grip 

                        :mizuno-small:           JPX 850 hybrid 19*, UST Proforce V2 85g, Stiff, Superstroke TX1 Midsize grip                                  

IRONS:            :cobra-small:    King Forged Tour 4i-pw, KBS FLT, shafts, stiff,  Superstroke TX1 Midsize grips

WEDGES:        rsz_scor-golf-logo.png        50, 55, 60 degree wedges with Genius 12 stiff flex,   Superstroke TX1 Midsize grips

PUTTER:       :odyssey-small:    O-Works Marksman 33.5", Superstroke 1.0 Flatso grip w/ 50g counter core

BALL:          :bridgestone-small: Tour B X                                                     
                  
BAG:          :Ogio:              Cirrus Golf Bag 
 
Shoes:              Skechers                  Hexgo Control  Shoes

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This is all helpful info, and I appreciate that there is a consensus about custom fit clubs. I also get that there are fundamentals to the game that I need to absorb regardless of the brand, etc. my lessons are from a course pro, I am lucky enough that I can either play nine holes (Roosevelt) or get to the driving range every day, and after four months, I hit the ball more accurately rather than less.

 

My clubs I bought used, and though I like following the marketing of new shiny clubs, I want to be able to become a par/bogie golfer rather than a bogie+ golfer before I spend on some heavy duty clubs.

 

Anyway, thanks all.

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Geopaas

 

Irons:   Ping G15s (5 - GW)

SW:      Ping Eye

Putter:  Odyssey White Hot

Hybrids: Taylor Made R7 3h

         Honma 5h

Woods:   Taylor Made R15 3w

         Taylor Made R7 5w

         Taylor Made Aeroburner 7w (love this one)

Drivers: Cobra Fly Z

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There is nothing wrong with your equipment unless the length, lie angle, and shaft flex is all wrong for your swing.  That can be easily checked and fixed relatively cheap.  If your clubs are a reasonable fit, then continuing lessons will get you where you want to be.  

 

There is a point where a bogey+ player won't play any better no matter how good the equipment is.  Also, a good player can play most any equipment and play decently, just not to the level they are accustomed.  A certain level of fitting is necessary, but lessons are priceless.

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We don’t stop playing the game because we get old; we get old because we stop playing the game.”

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This is what I ask - if you like the game, any or all aspects of it, why not make it more enjoyable?

 

Play once or twice, and if you think you'll play more than a couple of days a year, help yourself - take a lesson - most PGA Pro's will give a half-hour lesson for cheap. Beginners always say "I don't play enough for that stuff to matter", when it really should make it easier to love the game from the get go. The reality is that the better you are, the less your equipment matters. So get a lesson, then get fit, and then don't think too much - just go enjoy the game.

 

Also- why do our beginners end up with such crap? I.e.- boxed sets, range balls, etc.? Why not give them the best?


WITB: 

Adams 9064LS 9.5* (until I cracked the face)

Adams Super LS 17*

Adams XTD Ti 23*

Wilson Staff Ci7 4-PW

Adams wedges: 52/7 56/13 60/7

Wilson Staff Infinite Southside putter/Odyssey DualForce 660 putter

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