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How Do You Feel About What You Worked on After A Lesson With A Pro


How Do You Feel About What You Worked on After A Lesson With A Pro  

30 members have voted

  1. 1. Which of These Best Describes How You Feel After A Lesson With Your Teaching Pro

    • I Feel Great-I am almost always able to grasp the concept he's showing me
      19
    • I have mixed feeling-I don't feel like I was able to grasp the concept he was showing me, but know I need more work on it
      7
    • I'm beginning to Wonder About My Pro-He isn't able to convey a drill or method for me to grasp what he's showing me
      2
    • I'm gonna give up, my pro is great, I'm just not capable of getting what he's saying
      2


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Posted

This question topic can definitely branch off into the, should you get better right away with lessons, or is it expected to take a step back. 

So the last two options in the poll might be extreme, and we all probably fall inn one of the top two.   But I'm curious how you most feel after taking a lesson.

Today, I felt a combination of 3 and 4.  For two lessons we have been working on me getting my weight until my left side.  It something I see what he showing, but despite a couple different drills, I just don't do it.  And the rare times I do, it's such an awkward forced move that there is no way I make solid contact with it.

So today, I'm a 4.  Most days I feel like number 1, so I won't quit yet! 

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Posted
12 minutes ago, Golfspy_CG2 said:

This question topic can definitely branch off into the, should you get better right away with lessons, or is it expected to take a step back. 

So the last two options in the poll might be extreme, and we all probably fall inn one of the top two.   But I'm curious how you most feel after taking a lesson.

Today, I felt a combination of 3 and 4.  For two lessons we have been working on me getting my weight until my left side.  It something I see what he showing, but despite a couple different drills, I just don't do it.  And the rare times I do, it's such an awkward forced move that there is no way I make solid contact with it.

So today, I'm a 4.  Most days I feel like number 1, so I won't quit yet! 

I've had very few lessons, with the last couple coming through the owner of another website.  Each time I was given a single thing to work on, with some drills to help learn the movement, and an understanding of how to monitor my success in making the change through video.  So I understood the point, and I understood the method I was going to use to achieve the change.  The change felt awkward at first, but what felt "right" was doing the same things wrong that I'd been doing wrong all along.  Contact and consistency suffered, that's why the video checks were important.  I knew I was making progress, even when things felt weird, and the resulting shots weren't great.

Now I'm no swing mechanic, but I'd guess that getting the weight to the left side at impact is a result of other stuff being done correctly.  If you're making the right corrections, they ARE going to feel odd, and your contact WILL be erratic.  Or you can go back to swinging the way that feels comfortable.  Or you could try a different pro, sometimes one individual communicates better than another with a specific student.  Good luck!

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Posted

It comes down to communication. If you aren’t grasping what the pro is saying, they should be able to explain it differently.
 If you are able to replicate during the lesson,  then you have the ability to do the drill or move that is being asked.  Hopefully the instructor isn’t telling you what to feel but you are relating what you are doing to your feels which makes it easier to replicate on your own. 
making a change to your swing is hard since it makes you uncomfortable and the results may not be what we want.  We don’t like to be uncomfortable so we switch back to doing it wrong because it is comfortable 

I like my instructor, he is able to relay information in a way I understand and can restate it in a different way if I don’t understand.  

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Posted

... Like an onion lots of layers here. One of my biggest frustrations with students was their inability to do drills or just something I wanted them to do. I would preface this with saying something like "I don't care what happens. You can shank it, hit it off the toe or miss the ball completely, I just want you to get a feel for the move so ignore ball contact. For instance, someone falling backwards at impact with all their weight on their back foot, scooping thru impact with poor contact and inconsistent shots. Trying to get them to move their weight to the front foot thru impact was almost impossible for some when a ball was in front of them. They were so rooted to their swing and the idea that you have to help the ball into the air, they simply refused to allow their body to do the drill. They could do it without a ball, but as soon as a ball appeared they went back to the idea of how to hit a golf ball. As an instructor it was my responsibility to find a way to improve their swing. So asking them to start a swing with their feet together, swing to the top and start the downswing by stepping forward so their weight was on their front foot seems easy enough. Not easy to do and hit good shots of course, but easy to do physically yet some would step forward and then lean back on their rear foot and scoop with no weight on the front foot at all. They came to me for lessons so I could not fault them for being unable to accomplish a drill for a swing change, that was my job. I simply had to find other ways to accomplish the goal. Sometimes nothing worked, rare but it happened.

... Know what you want to accomplish and find an instructor that will help you achieve your goal. The includes personality. I had students that loved to chat during a lesson, some remain very quiet and just listen, either respond to verbal instruction or visual instruction or moving them into positions and allow them to discover through doing, not listening or watching. And the most egregious fault some instructors have is attempting to revamp a swing into a model swing. Many students just want to get better at what they already do. For instance turn a 25 yd slice into a 5 yd fade or turning a duck hook into a higher trajectory 5-10 yd draw. 

... I would think within one lesson you should know if you hit it off with your instructors personality and within 2 lessons you should know if you are both on the same page for what you are trying to accomplish. Of course you could be hitting the ball much worse and your swing can feel awful BUT you agree with the direction the instructor wants you to go and you get along with his/her personality. If not, find a new instructor. Taking lessons is rarely easy so the dedication to making a change regardless of how difficult is very important and be prepared to take steps backward before moving forward. 

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Fairway:   :cobra-small:  Aerojet 3/7 wood ... Kai'Li Blue 70r
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Posted

Great stuff there Chisag.   

And I would say I'm a less extreme case of the example you gave of falling back at impact. But the video doesn't lie, I am definitely not transferring it left like I should.  And my instructor said the exact same thing...he's not worried about where the shot goes or doesn't go at this point, it's unrealistic to expect to make that big of adjustment to your swing and in a few shots be hitting it solid.    A friend of mine who is an instructor but not one I take lessons from, you and the current instructor all emphasize the same thing.   What you are currently doing feels "right" to you even thought it's not, the correct motion is different, even though students will often say, "It doesn't feel right"   You have to always come back to the difference between wrong and different or awkward. 

It's not going to be easy to change 30 plus years of doing something one way and doing almost the complete opposite.  My friend often ask students to write their name left handed, and watches them struggle and see how  ugly it looks.  He tells them that's what he's doing with their golf swing.  And if they were to spend 30 minutes at a time a few times a week writing their name left handed, it will get easier and better.  It may never be as good as their right hand signature, but will certainly be readable.    I found that an interesting analogy that I could relate to.   You just don't have to go out in the real world and write your name left handed though, like you have to play a round with the move you are working on.   Although he also cautions not to try something during a round that is that drastic, because unlike the practice bay, out there, you have to go hit that ball no matter where it ended up.

 

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:titelist-small: SM10 48F/54M and58K

:ping-small: S159 48S/52S/56W/60B

:scotty-cameron-1: Select 5.5 Flowback 35" 

:titelist-small: ProV1  Play number 12

 

 

Posted

... You have touched on a huge revelation for many "It's not going to be easy to change 30 plus years of doing something one way and doing almost the complete opposite." and the truth is more than a few will not be able to make that kind of change. This is where an instructor earns his money and helps you become the best you can be under he circumstances. Obviously it is best of the student is willing to put in the work and make the change completely but considering Tiger Woods may be the best ball striker to ever live and it took him a full year of hitting hundreds of shots every singe day to make a permanent change, you have to look in the mirror and be realistic about how long you are willing to struggle before the change takes place. The golf swing is extremely difficult and I admire anyone willing to put their ego aside and take lessons. I wish you the best of luck on your journey! 

Driver:     :taylormade-small:    Qi10 10.5* ... AutoFlex Dream 7 SF405
Fairway:   :cobra-small:  Aerojet 3/7 wood ... Kai'Li Blue 70r
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Irons:       :cobra-small:    King Tour 5-pw ... Steelfiber i80r
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Posted
22 minutes ago, chisag said:

... Know what you want to accomplish and find an instructor that will help you achieve your goal. The includes personality. I had students that loved to chat during a lesson, some remain very quiet and just listen, either respond to verbal instruction or visual instruction or moving them into positions and allow them to discover through doing, not listening or watching. And the most egregious fault some instructors have is attempting to revamp a swing into a model swing. Many students just want to get better at what they already do. For instance turn a 25 yd slice into a 5 yd fade or turning a duck hook into a higher trajectory 5-10 yd draw. 

Nail on the head right here.

I actually just had another lesson yesterday, my eighth with my instructor since November, and I don't see changing anytime soon for the reasons you mentioned. I feel like:

  1. He is willing to listen to me and what I feel during a swing, and can relay what needs to change through different feelings and feedback. Yesterday, we were working on downswing hand path and it took a few swings but we were able to find a feel that worked for me and got the results he wanted as well.
  2. He is willing to chat about golf/life/whatever. I've had some lessons that were more chatting than instruction, and some that are more instruction than chatting. I'm someone who used to be really nervous around people I didn't know (especially when playing golf) and that helped me really feel relaxed from the get-go with him.
  3. Progress has been incremental and in no way been a complete "you must become Adam Scott to reach your goals" tear down of my existing swing. Each lesson I leave with something to work on that usually improves something. We then re-evaluate at the next lesson and make corrections as needed. This takes time. It's not a fast process.

And, I do really like that I get a video or a quick lesson recap that reinforces what we worked on and the progress I'm making.

As far as the poll goes, I answered "1" - I do generally feel pretty good about what I am trying to do and what I've learned. I don't always make steps forward however, but over time the small improvements have been really helpful. 

At this point, the ~$500 spent on lessons since November have been more valuable to me than any $500 equipment purchase would have been.

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20° Hybrid: PXG_Logo.png.8401024d1fb8aec46f0e790c1aa5b80c.png PXG 0211 (2020 Model), 40.25", Mitsubishi Tensei AV RAW White 90X
4 Utility: 
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5-PW:
logo-Ben-Hogan-large.png.98d743ae5487285c6406a1e30a0a63b5.png Ben Hogan PTx Pro, 37" 7 Iron, Aerotech SteelFiber i125cw Stiff | Club Champion Fitting
50°, 54°, 58°:
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Putter:
image.png.49fcc172a1ed0010d930fbe1c5dc8b79.png L.A.B. Golf DF 2.1, 36", 68°, Black with Custom Sightlines, BGT Stability Tour, L.A.B. Press II 3° | Unofficial Review
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stargrip.png.4285948f41f1409613266e7803f0bbaa.png Star Sidewinder, Undersized with Custom Tape Build-Up
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Riding On: 
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Posted
2 hours ago, Golfspy_CG2 said:

  For two lessons we have been working on me getting my weight until my left side.  It something I see what he showing, but despite a couple different drills, I just don't do it.  And the rare times I do, it's such an awkward forced move that there is no way I make solid contact with it.

Is there a particular feel you can hone in on when you make the right move? If you can replicate that and get the move down, I'm sure the ball striking will follow. A few times over the winter I very nearly took out a window in my coach's space because I shanked the ball so badly trying to change stuff.

Unofficial WHS Handicap: 3.6 / Anti-Cap: 9.9 (Last Updated Sept. 1, 2024)

Driver: callaway_logo.png.3dd18aa65544000dd0ea3901697a8261.png Callaway Paradym TD (10.5°), 45.75", Fujikura Motore X F1 6X | Fitting Post
3 Wood: 
cobra_logo.png.190908c8b4518eec87c087429e4343ee.png Cobra RadSpeed Big Tour (14.5°), 43", Fujikura Motore X F1 7X
20° Hybrid: PXG_Logo.png.8401024d1fb8aec46f0e790c1aa5b80c.png PXG 0211 (2020 Model), 40.25", Mitsubishi Tensei AV RAW White 90X
4 Utility: 
cobra_logo.png.190908c8b4518eec87c087429e4343ee.png Cobra KING Utility (2020 Model), 38.5", Aerotech SteelFiber i110cw Stiff
5-PW:
logo-Ben-Hogan-large.png.98d743ae5487285c6406a1e30a0a63b5.png Ben Hogan PTx Pro, 37" 7 Iron, Aerotech SteelFiber i125cw Stiff | Club Champion Fitting
50°, 54°, 58°:
231036130_Edel_Golf_Logo_v2_grandecopy.png.13cc76b963f8dd59f06d04b1e8df2827.png Edel SMS, V Grind, Nippon Modus 125 Wedge| Official Review Thread
Putter:
image.png.49fcc172a1ed0010d930fbe1c5dc8b79.png L.A.B. Golf DF 2.1, 36", 68°, Black with Custom Sightlines, BGT Stability Tour, L.A.B. Press II 3° | Unofficial Review
Grips: 
stargrip.png.4285948f41f1409613266e7803f0bbaa.png Star Sidewinder, Undersized with Custom Tape Build-Up
Ball: :Snell:Snell MTB-X Optic Yellow

Tracked By: shotscope.png.4a7089f2bddff325285b1266a61dda03.png  Shot Scope H4
Bag: :1590477705_SunMountain: Personalized 2020 Sun Mountain Sync
Riding On: 
image.png.1db52ce91db040317a9ac580f1df8de8.pngBag Boy Nitron | Official Review Thread

WITB? | 2022 Reviewer Edel SMS Wedges | 2021 Reviewer Maxfli Tour and Tour X Balls2020 Participant #CobraConnect Challenge | 2019 Reviewer Callaway Epic Flash Driver

 

Posted

For me, I have worked with a few different instructors, one I would consider as an average instructor and one I would consider one of the best instructors out there. 

With the "average" instructor, to try to fix my steep swing, we kept working on drills and swing thoughts that were all about "swing to the right". Spent probably 6 months on this and I think it actually made my swing worse because to swing more to right field, i kept making my backswing more and more to the inside. This instructor never addressed the inside backswing issue.

The top notch instructor helped me to identify the root cause of steepness, and that the root cause was backswing and backswing position and that steepness in transition was a symptom of the problem. Very quickly during that single lesson, I was able to demonstrate the ability to execute a much more shallow downswing when I focused on backswing position.

Now, I still can revert back to my steep tendencies, but I am aware that I need to focus on getting my backswing into the right position.

Follow my golf journey to break into the 80s

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Posted
2 hours ago, cnosil said:

I like my instructor, he is able to relay information in a way I understand and can restate it in a different way if I don’t understand.  

 

... I would tell a student what I wanted him to do 9 different ways and the 10th finally took root and they understood what we were trying to do. Some that I had a great relationship with I might laugh and say "Well I told you 9 times and it took 10 to get the message across" and others that might not appreciate the deprecating humor I just recognized this is what teaching is all about, continuing to help them understand by coming up with different ways to explain/demonstrate this until something made sense to them. 

Driver:     :taylormade-small:    Qi10 10.5* ... AutoFlex Dream 7 SF405
Fairway:   :cobra-small:  Aerojet 3/7 wood ... Kai'Li Blue 70r
Hybrids:  :ping-small:        G430 Hybrid 22*... Alta Hy70r 
Irons:       :cobra-small:    King Tour 5-pw ... Steelfiber i80r
Wedges:  :taylormade-small:     MG3 46*/50*/54* MG4 58* ... Steelfiber i95r
Putter:     :EVNROLL:     Custom 5.1 (no alignment)  33" 
Ball:          :maxfli:     Maxfli Tour X 

Posted
1 hour ago, edingc said:

Is there a particular feel you can hone in on when you make the right move? If you can replicate that and get the move down, I'm sure the ball striking will follow. A few times over the winter I very nearly took out a window in my coach's space because I shanked the ball so badly trying to change stuff.

Yeah, it was usually a feel of stumbling forward awkwardly and going 10 feet further than the ball 🙂

When I've worked on this before prior to this instructor, I used a drill my teach friend the instructor had mentioned,  mimicking the Gary Player step through after the shot, and while I can do and feel that, it isn't anything like the move he showed me. 

 

:ping-small: G430 Max 10K 

:titelist-small: TSiR1 15.0 Aldlia Ascent 60g

:titelist-small: TSR2 18.0 PX Aldila Ascent 6og

:titelist-small: TSi1 20 Aldila Ascent Shafts R

:titelist-small: T350 5-GW SteelFiber I80 

:titelist-small: SM10 48F/54M and58K

:ping-small: S159 48S/52S/56W/60B

:scotty-cameron-1: Select 5.5 Flowback 35" 

:titelist-small: ProV1  Play number 12

 

 

Posted
2 hours ago, edingc said:

Nail on the head right here.

I actually just had another lesson yesterday, my eighth with my instructor since November, and I don't see changing anytime soon for the reasons you mentioned. I feel like:

  1. He is willing to listen to me and what I feel during a swing, and can relay what needs to change through different feelings and feedback. Yesterday, we were working on downswing hand path and it took a few swings but we were able to find a feel that worked for me and got the results he wanted as well.
  2. He is willing to chat about golf/life/whatever. I've had some lessons that were more chatting than instruction, and some that are more instruction than chatting. I'm someone who used to be really nervous around people I didn't know (especially when playing golf) and that helped me really feel relaxed from the get-go with him.
  3. Progress has been incremental and in no way been a complete "you must become Adam Scott to reach your goals" tear down of my existing swing. Each lesson I leave with something to work on that usually improves something. We then re-evaluate at the next lesson and make corrections as needed. This takes time. It's not a fast process.

And, I do really like that I get a video or a quick lesson recap that reinforces what we worked on and the progress I'm making.

As far as the poll goes, I answered "1" - I do generally feel pretty good about what I am trying to do and what I've learned. I don't always make steps forward however, but over time the small improvements have been really helpful. 

At this point, the ~$500 spent on lessons since November have been more valuable to me than any $500 equipment purchase would have been.

Very nice, that's great to hear.  Love that you found someone that works so well for you.  I'm not saying my instructor doesn't.;  I feel it probably comes 90% down to me, to listen (ask when i don't understand) and put into practice between lessons.   And that highlighted sentence can certainly be uttered by any of us. 

And as CHISAG mentioned above, it is probably going to be a very low percent, less than 10, possibly as low a 1% that actually take the time, put in the effort and money to make substantial changes.   And for me, I'm not looking to have an Ernie Els smooth swing, or drop to a single digit.  If I could get to a solid 12 and play close enough to that most of the time--as I realize the stats are players should only shoot their handicap 1 out of 5 rounds I think, I would be pretty content.   Until of course I got there, then wanted to go even lower.   But I'm realistic about the changes to my swing/body etc at this point.

 

:ping-small: G430 Max 10K 

:titelist-small: TSiR1 15.0 Aldlia Ascent 60g

:titelist-small: TSR2 18.0 PX Aldila Ascent 6og

:titelist-small: TSi1 20 Aldila Ascent Shafts R

:titelist-small: T350 5-GW SteelFiber I80 

:titelist-small: SM10 48F/54M and58K

:ping-small: S159 48S/52S/56W/60B

:scotty-cameron-1: Select 5.5 Flowback 35" 

:titelist-small: ProV1  Play number 12

 

 

Posted
2 hours ago, edingc said:

Is there a particular feel you can hone in on when you make the right move? If you can replicate that and get the move down, I'm sure the ball striking will follow. 

 

... That reminds me of learning to surf when I was a lifeguard at Myrtle Beach in '72. Guy that was teaching me kept saying "lean into the turn" and I kept leaning and and I kept falling. I was on a wave and not ready to turn but almost fell off the board when I lost my balance and executed a perfect turn. I had to feel it to understand what I needed to do and all the talking in the world could not prepare me for falling and recovering from a fall, which is exactly what turning on a surfboard (or snowboard) really is, just a controlled fall. The golf swing can be very similar. . 

Driver:     :taylormade-small:    Qi10 10.5* ... AutoFlex Dream 7 SF405
Fairway:   :cobra-small:  Aerojet 3/7 wood ... Kai'Li Blue 70r
Hybrids:  :ping-small:        G430 Hybrid 22*... Alta Hy70r 
Irons:       :cobra-small:    King Tour 5-pw ... Steelfiber i80r
Wedges:  :taylormade-small:     MG3 46*/50*/54* MG4 58* ... Steelfiber i95r
Putter:     :EVNROLL:     Custom 5.1 (no alignment)  33" 
Ball:          :maxfli:     Maxfli Tour X 

Posted
11 minutes ago, Golfspy_CG2 said:

Very nice, that's great to hear.  Love that you found someone that works so well for you.  I'm not saying my instructor doesn't.;  I feel it probably comes 90% down to me, to listen (ask when i don't understand) and put into practice between lessons.   And that highlighted sentence can certainly be uttered by any of us. 

And as CHISAG mentioned above, it is probably going to be a very low percent, less than 10, possibly as low a 1% that actually take the time, put in the effort and money to make substantial changes.   And for me, I'm not looking to have an Ernie Els smooth swing, or drop to a single digit.  If I could get to a solid 12 and play close enough to that most of the time--as I realize the stats are players should only shoot their handicap 1 out of 5 rounds I think, I would be pretty content.   Until of course I got there, then wanted to go even lower.   But I'm realistic about the changes to my swing/body etc at this point.

Definitely sounds like you have the right mindset to make some great changes. 

I told my instructor when I first met him in November that I wanted to be around a 10 or get into single digits. I've had my ups and downs, but the 1-in-5 rounds thing is pretty close for me. An 80 at my home course is a 10.1 differential, I've shot 80 or below 9 times out of 34 rounds this year and am hanging right around that 10 number overall. Like you, I'm sure I'll be wanting to play to a five next year 🤣.

(Something I've not told him or anyone, realistically my goal was to be able to play the "tips" somewhere and hold my own. I did that on Tuesday, played a course from 6,800 yards - furthest back I could go there - and held my own, playing 12/18 holes +5. I won't mention the other six holes that got me to my +20 overall score... lol.)

Unofficial WHS Handicap: 3.6 / Anti-Cap: 9.9 (Last Updated Sept. 1, 2024)

Driver: callaway_logo.png.3dd18aa65544000dd0ea3901697a8261.png Callaway Paradym TD (10.5°), 45.75", Fujikura Motore X F1 6X | Fitting Post
3 Wood: 
cobra_logo.png.190908c8b4518eec87c087429e4343ee.png Cobra RadSpeed Big Tour (14.5°), 43", Fujikura Motore X F1 7X
20° Hybrid: PXG_Logo.png.8401024d1fb8aec46f0e790c1aa5b80c.png PXG 0211 (2020 Model), 40.25", Mitsubishi Tensei AV RAW White 90X
4 Utility: 
cobra_logo.png.190908c8b4518eec87c087429e4343ee.png Cobra KING Utility (2020 Model), 38.5", Aerotech SteelFiber i110cw Stiff
5-PW:
logo-Ben-Hogan-large.png.98d743ae5487285c6406a1e30a0a63b5.png Ben Hogan PTx Pro, 37" 7 Iron, Aerotech SteelFiber i125cw Stiff | Club Champion Fitting
50°, 54°, 58°:
231036130_Edel_Golf_Logo_v2_grandecopy.png.13cc76b963f8dd59f06d04b1e8df2827.png Edel SMS, V Grind, Nippon Modus 125 Wedge| Official Review Thread
Putter:
image.png.49fcc172a1ed0010d930fbe1c5dc8b79.png L.A.B. Golf DF 2.1, 36", 68°, Black with Custom Sightlines, BGT Stability Tour, L.A.B. Press II 3° | Unofficial Review
Grips: 
stargrip.png.4285948f41f1409613266e7803f0bbaa.png Star Sidewinder, Undersized with Custom Tape Build-Up
Ball: :Snell:Snell MTB-X Optic Yellow

Tracked By: shotscope.png.4a7089f2bddff325285b1266a61dda03.png  Shot Scope H4
Bag: :1590477705_SunMountain: Personalized 2020 Sun Mountain Sync
Riding On: 
image.png.1db52ce91db040317a9ac580f1df8de8.pngBag Boy Nitron | Official Review Thread

WITB? | 2022 Reviewer Edel SMS Wedges | 2021 Reviewer Maxfli Tour and Tour X Balls2020 Participant #CobraConnect Challenge | 2019 Reviewer Callaway Epic Flash Driver

 

Posted
On 8/28/2020 at 12:12 PM, chisag said:

... Like an onion lots of layers here. One of my biggest frustrations with students was their inability to do drills or just something I wanted them to do. I would preface this with saying something like "I don't care what happens. You can shank it, hit it off the toe or miss the ball completely, I just want you to get a feel for the move so ignore ball contact. For instance, someone falling backwards at impact with all their weight on their back foot, scooping thru impact with poor contact and inconsistent shots. Trying to get them to move their weight to the front foot thru impact was almost impossible for some when a ball was in front of them. They were so rooted to their swing and the idea that you have to help the ball into the air, they simply refused to allow their body to do the drill. They could do it without a ball, but as soon as a ball appeared they went back to the idea of how to hit a golf ball. As an instructor it was my responsibility to find a way to improve their swing. So asking them to start a swing with their feet together, swing to the top and start the downswing by stepping forward so their weight was on their front foot seems easy enough. Not easy to do and hit good shots of course, but easy to do physically yet some would step forward and then lean back on their rear foot and scoop with no weight on the front foot at all. They came to me for lessons so I could not fault them for being unable to accomplish a drill for a swing change, that was my job. I simply had to find other ways to accomplish the goal. Sometimes nothing worked, rare but it happened.

... Know what you want to accomplish and find an instructor that will help you achieve your goal. The includes personality. I had students that loved to chat during a lesson, some remain very quiet and just listen, either respond to verbal instruction or visual instruction or moving them into positions and allow them to discover through doing, not listening or watching. And the most egregious fault some instructors have is attempting to revamp a swing into a model swing. Many students just want to get better at what they already do. For instance turn a 25 yd slice into a 5 yd fade or turning a duck hook into a higher trajectory 5-10 yd draw. 

... I would think within one lesson you should know if you hit it off with your instructors personality and within 2 lessons you should know if you are both on the same page for what you are trying to accomplish. Of course you could be hitting the ball much worse and your swing can feel awful BUT you agree with the direction the instructor wants you to go and you get along with his/her personality. If not, find a new instructor. Taking lessons is rarely easy so the dedication to making a change regardless of how difficult is very important and be prepared to take steps backward before moving forward. 

 

This is a really interesting thread, and I think that Chisag hits the nail on the head about an "onion" and layers.

I am very new to golf - I only started with my wife at the tail end of June, but we have been out between 4-5 times per week (for 9 holes).  I would be what I assume people would call a high handicapper.  

My wife and I purchased a package of lessons from the local pro, but I found it incredibly frustrating.  Full disclosure - I actually found this thread while I was surfing the internet trying to find  recommendations for a good online coaching site (top speed golf and rotary swing keep coming up...).

The difficulty I had with the instruction was, "keep the left arm straight, imagine you have a towel under your right armpit to keep that arm in, shift your weight, but don't move your hips or your head, transfer you weight using your hips and bring the club through with your wrists, and imagine there is something under your left toe to keep the weight forward, and follow through with your body to face the target."

In the next breath, it was, "don't think about it and let the club do the work".  

So I'm trying to think about everything - and nothing - all at the same time.  Which means that I am skulling some shots, chunking others, slicing many of them, outright missing the GD ball on some occasions and then, once in a glorious while, connecting and hitting the ball like I should be playing in the pros (please note that I have not one shred of evidence to support this claim).

So, ultimately, my response to the survey would be somewhere between 2 and 3.  I'm not ready to give up, although the though has crossed my mind...  And I have admittedly walked a couple of holes while my wife golfed without touching a club to regain some composure (and self confidence) before resuming.

All that said, any suggestions on online training would be appreciated!

 

My wife are new, since June 2020 to golf.  High handicappers, but dedicated to improving, even if I sulk about the fact that she can outdrive me on occasion.

Me:
default_callaway-small.jpg Mavrik Max - 3H, 4H, 5-PW
Ben Hogan Driver 9.5 (old, I know)

 

My wife:
default_taylormade-small.jpg
 Kalea, full set

 

Posted

I've taken lessons from two pros. The first I was around a 3, and the second I was a 1. The first pro was very position oriented - arms need to be HERE, toe of the club needs to point HERE at THIS point, you should look like THIS at the top of the swing, etc. A lot of my work was to go home and stand in front of a mirror in positions that physically hurt - my back would spasm and when I mentioned that, the response was to laugh and say "well it's not supposed to be comfortable". 

The second pro was all about feel. Feel your weight HERE, feel your shoulders do THIS, etc. Unsurprisingly my ballstriking was almost immediately better after a few lessons with him.

In my Big Max hybrid bag:
:mizuno-small: ST-X 10.5* Kai'li Blue R Flex
:mizuno-small: ST-Z 15* Kai'li Blue R Flex
:mizuno-small: ST-Z 4h Linq Blue R Flex
:cleveland-small: Halo XL 5i-DW
:cleveland-small: CBX 54* & 58*
:EVNROLL: ER5 
:maxfli: Tour S

Posted
 
... That reminds me of learning to surf when I was a lifeguard at Myrtle Beach in '72. Guy that was teaching me kept saying "lean into the turn" and I kept leaning and and I kept falling. I was on a wave and not ready to turn but almost fell off the board when I lost my balance and executed a perfect turn. I had to feel it to understand what I needed to do and all the talking in the world could not prepare me for falling and recovering from a fall, which is exactly what turning on a surfboard (or snowboard) really is, just a controlled fall. The golf swing can be very similar. . 

As an avid snowboarder I couldn’t agree more: No one can tell you when to change edges and start a turn, you just have to feel it. I was very conscious of that sort of teaching when I first took a lesson: my wife bought me a 6 pack of lessons at the pga tour superstore, and while I won’t go back, they were helpful. The millennial in me has to know why. My instructor wasn’t great at explaining why, but he was accurate in his assessment of my game, and what would help me improve the fastest. And while changing my grip did ruin a summer of golf for me, he prepared me for it. Even suggested not using the new grip when I went to play for enjoyments sake. Now I think I have just enough knowledge to be dangerous, and that will make the search for my next instructor that much harder...


Sent from my iPhone using MyGolfSpy

 

Driver - Cobra LtDxLS

3 Wood - Ping g410 LST

2iron - Titleist U505

Irons - Ping i59

Wedges - Vokey Sm9

Putter - Mizuno Mcraft IV

 

Posted

My wife and I were just discussing this tonight. She wants to get a lesson on her iron work, but she was first to say she's holding off til the end of the season. Last time either one of us had a lesson it took a month to recover.


Sent from my iPad using MyGolfSpy

Left Hand orientation

:taylormade-small:SIM 2 D Max with Fujikura Air Speeder Shaft 

Cobra  Radspeed 3W/RIptide Shaft
:ping-small:  410  Hybrids 22*, 26*

Cobra Speed Zone 6-GP/Recoil ESX 460 F3 Shafts 

:titelist-small: SM7 54* Wedge

:ping-small: Glide 3.0  60* Wedge

:odyssey-small: O Works putter

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:918457628_PrecisionPro:NX9-HD

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Posted

I think I am going to try an online putting lesson. I'm thinking a putting lesson is won't screw up my putting, there is only up from where my putting is currently at.

Follow my golf journey to break into the 80s

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  • 2 weeks later...
Posted
On 8/29/2020 at 1:00 PM, Gambyt said:

...

The difficulty I had with the instruction was, "keep the left arm straight, imagine you have a towel under your right armpit to keep that arm in, shift your weight, but don't move your hips or your head, transfer you weight using your hips and bring the club through with your wrists, and imagine there is something under your left toe to keep the weight forward, and follow through with your body to face the target."

In the next breath, it was, "don't think about it and let the club do the work".  

...

My suggestion - not being facetious, being serious - is to consider searching for a new instructor. If you've read through the other posts in this thread, the underlying unanimity is there MUST BE really good two-way communication / understanding between the instructor and the pupil.

And it kinda sounds to me like this instructor was presenting way too many technical details, too early on .. without gauging your level of receptivity...

WITB of an "aspiring"  play-ah...
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Callaway Paradym AI Smoke Max (Newton Motion 3 Dot)
3W... Callaway Bertha Mini 1.5 (ProForce V2 HL 5F3)
7W... Tour Edge Exotics EXS (Tensei CK Blue 50/R)

4H... Callaway Epic Super Hybrid (Recoil ZT9 F3)
5H... Callaway Big Bertha '19 (Recoil 460 ESX F3)
6i-GW... 
Sub 70 699 V2 (Recoil 660 F3) 
SW, LW... 
Mizuno ES21 54-08, 60-06 (KBS Hi Rev 2.0)
Putter... 
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.. (
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20231223_133657.jpg.960669f48157ee1fbafde043ef7f132a.jpg

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Posted
8 minutes ago, cksurfdude said:

My suggestion - not being facetious, being serious - is to consider searching for a new instructor. If you've read through the other posts in this thread, the underlying unanimity is there MUST BE really good two-way communication / understanding between the instructor and the pupil.

And it kinda sounds to me like this instructor was presenting way too many technical details, too early on .. without gauging your level of receptivity...

 

... When I first started teaching an old character that was legendary in NC told me to always remember "When yur givun out infurmashun, do it by the teaspoon not by tha shovel". 

Driver:     :taylormade-small:    Qi10 10.5* ... AutoFlex Dream 7 SF405
Fairway:   :cobra-small:  Aerojet 3/7 wood ... Kai'Li Blue 70r
Hybrids:  :ping-small:        G430 Hybrid 22*... Alta Hy70r 
Irons:       :cobra-small:    King Tour 5-pw ... Steelfiber i80r
Wedges:  :taylormade-small:     MG3 46*/50*/54* MG4 58* ... Steelfiber i95r
Putter:     :EVNROLL:     Custom 5.1 (no alignment)  33" 
Ball:          :maxfli:     Maxfli Tour X 

Posted

After having taken lessons with four different instructors over the years, I took away three things: the instructor must understand how you process 'stuff'. Some people can take one one piece of information to implement others can take several. The instructor should also understand how you learn, i.e. visual learner, etc. Lastly, I don't take a lesson early or mid season. It generally takes me a month to implement the instruction and during that month my game goes to cr*p. I generally wait til the end of the season that way I have all winter to practice/implement the swing change.

 

 

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Left Hand orientation

:taylormade-small:SIM 2 D Max with Fujikura Air Speeder Shaft 

Cobra  Radspeed 3W/RIptide Shaft
:ping-small:  410  Hybrids 22*, 26*

Cobra Speed Zone 6-GP/Recoil ESX 460 F3 Shafts 

:titelist-small: SM7 54* Wedge

:ping-small: Glide 3.0  60* Wedge

:odyssey-small: O Works putter

:ShotScope: V3
:918457628_PrecisionPro:NX9-HD

:CaddyTek: - 4 Wheel 

EZGO TXT 48v cart
:footjoy-small: - too many shoes to list and so many to buy

:1590477705_SunMountain: And  BAG Boy

Golf Balls: Vice Pro Plus 

2020 Official Teste:SuperSpeed: Beginning Driver Speed  - 78

2019 Official Tester :ping-small:  410 Driver

2018 Official Tester :wilson-small: C300

Posted

Took my first lesson ever about a month ago after playing for over 20 years. Learned everything from books, magazines, etc. Was alway afraid it would absolutely ruin me once I started improving, got myself to a 9 handicap then everything fell apart. It started with the shanks with my wedges, and it led to my irons etc, went from an occasional round in the high 70's to struggling to break 90, this lasted for 3 months, I could not fix my swing. 

I am very lucky that I happen to live a mile from the Butch Harmon school in Vegas, didn't go to him, but one of his guys. He looked at 5 swings, had me change my grip and stand further from the ball....within that hour lesson I went from hitting my shanky fades to hitting beautiful draws. I have played 5 rounds since this lesson and it starting to feel more natural. 

I wish I would have done this a long time ago, now when I go to the range, instead of banging balls the entire time, I have specific things to work on. I would have never made those changes as they felt so unnatural. I am committed to going to him every other month or so and as soon as some new swing issue creeps in, I will likely go back. Hoping to get away from full swing lessons in a couple lessons and focus on short game. 

:mizuno-small: Irons: Mizuno MP53 Stiff/standard 

:mizuno-small: Hybrid: 4I

:ping-small: Driver: Ping G25 9 degree, stiff

:cleveland-small: Wedges: 52, 56, 60

:scotty-cameron-1: Select Roundback 2014

 

 

 

Posted
1 hour ago, carfig said:

Took my first lesson ever about a month ago after playing for over 20 years. Learned everything from books, magazines, etc. Was alway afraid it would absolutely ruin me once I started improving, got myself to a 9 handicap then everything fell apart. It started with the shanks with my wedges, and it led to my irons etc, went from an occasional round in the high 70's to struggling to break 90, this lasted for 3 months, I could not fix my swing. 

I am very lucky that I happen to live a mile from the Butch Harmon school in Vegas, didn't go to him, but one of his guys. He looked at 5 swings, had me change my grip and stand further from the ball....within that hour lesson I went from hitting my shanky fades to hitting beautiful draws. I have played 5 rounds since this lesson and it starting to feel more natural. 

I wish I would have done this a long time ago, now when I go to the range, instead of banging balls the entire time, I have specific things to work on. I would have never made those changes as they felt so unnatural. I am committed to going to him every other month or so and as soon as some new swing issue creeps in, I will likely go back. Hoping to get away from full swing lessons in a couple lessons and focus on short game. 

Thanks for posting this.  I’m tsking lessons now.  We are on our third lesson in trying to keep me from swaying off the ball (away from it) and get my weight moving toward the target. 

I’m so frustrated right now, i dont know what to do.  Keep at it, look for a new instructor or just bsg it and play the way i have for 30 years.   
 

The move hes trying to get me to make feels so unnatural—-which i guess it is to me 😒.  I mentioned this is my first post, i feel part of it should be on him to come up with a drill that works for me   He keeps showing/telling me the same thing and its just not happening  

 

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Posted

having coached various different sports professionally and semi-professionally, the biggest piece of advice i can offer is that your lesson should feel like a long conversation broken up by occasional golf swings. 

@chisag alluded to something a few posts ago - too much information at one time is extremely detrimental to learning. if your coach is feeding you more than one actionable cue on a given swing, then your ability to execute will be diminished greatly. 

a good coach will figure out how you learn first, and will meet you there when it comes to delivering information.  some clients love technical cues. some love to do things by feel. some need a demo of either what they’re doing or what they’re supposed to be doing. 

image.png.926c5dbfc594427870bc33c43f290630.pngSIM2 8º | KuroKage XD 70TX 

  image.png.4f15ae5144722103242556b2db6d1033.pngSIM 3W 14º | Fujikura Atmos Black Tour Spec 9TX

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Posted

Well, my teacher told me if it doesn't feel unnatural...then you are doing the same thing you were doing before. I can tell you my biggest issue was standing too close to the ball....was causing me to get stuck. He video'd my first couple of swings....made the change, I told him I felt like I looked like Bryson Dechambeu and I was going to hammer down a tree...

He told me to trust it and take several swings and don't worry about the ball flight...when he showed me the second video with the adjustment, it was amazing...all of the angles where were they were supposed to be, I looked like a real golfer...that made me trust the unnatural feeling. 

Also, read the book "The Practice Manual" by Adam Young, I picked this up recently and it talks alot about changes to your swing, the unnatural feeling and how to practice....not super technical about the swing, but more the best learning process. 

It has been a full month for me and I have been going to the range twice a week and forcing myself not to go back to what "feels comfortable", it is absolutly working

 

:mizuno-small: Irons: Mizuno MP53 Stiff/standard 

:mizuno-small: Hybrid: 4I

:ping-small: Driver: Ping G25 9 degree, stiff

:cleveland-small: Wedges: 52, 56, 60

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Posted
2 minutes ago, Chip Strokes said:

having coached various different sports professionally and semi-professionally, the biggest piece of advice i can offer is that your lesson should feel like a long conversation broken up by occasional golf swings. 

@chisag alluded to something a few posts ago - too much information at one time is extremely detrimental to learning. if your coach is feeding you more than one actionable cue on a given swing, then your ability to execute will be diminished greatly. 

a good coach will figure out how you learn first, and will meet you there when it comes to delivering information.  some clients love technical cues. some love to do things by feel. some need a demo of either what they’re doing or what they’re supposed to be doing. 

Yep, my coach gave me 2 things to work on. That was it, and said call me in a month or so and we will see what to work on next. It was an hour of explaining why he was making those changes.....

:mizuno-small: Irons: Mizuno MP53 Stiff/standard 

:mizuno-small: Hybrid: 4I

:ping-small: Driver: Ping G25 9 degree, stiff

:cleveland-small: Wedges: 52, 56, 60

:scotty-cameron-1: Select Roundback 2014

 

 

 

Posted
2 minutes ago, carfig said:

Yep, my coach gave me 2 things to work on. That was it, and said call me in a month or so and we will see what to work on next. It was an hour of explaining why he was making those changes.....

a really good coach will identify the most egregious error first and direct attention there. usually, that fix will snowball into allowing other things to be fixed as well. 

when i was coaching olympic lifting, with newer lifters who had trouble keeping a their spine angle and their knees driven out, id spend almost a full session on their breathing and bracing. lo and behold, once they knew how to breathe and when they were supposed to hold their breath, their backs magically stayed flat and their knees drove out away from each other. 

image.png.926c5dbfc594427870bc33c43f290630.pngSIM2 8º | KuroKage XD 70TX 

  image.png.4f15ae5144722103242556b2db6d1033.pngSIM 3W 14º | Fujikura Atmos Black Tour Spec 9TX

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Posted
5 hours ago, tony@CIC said:

After having taken lessons with four different instructors over the years, I took away three things: the instructor must understand how you process 'stuff'. Some people can take one one piece of information to implement others can take several. The instructor should also understand how you learn, i.e. visual learner, etc. Lastly, I don't take a lesson early or mid season. It generally takes me a month to implement the instruction and during that month my game goes to cr*p. I generally wait til the end of the season that way I have all winter to practice/implement the swing change.

 

A lot of the problem we have making a change in our swing is that we take a lesson or two or twenty just before or during golf season so we can make a better swing and play golf better the following week.  Folks, it doesn't work like that and Tony has the right idea.

I had an instructor that said if you want to make a change, you have to commit to it... not take a lesson, work on the drill a few times, then go play a round with your buddies.  Yes, you can maybe do the drill correctly if you practice it enough, but when you hit the course, your brain and body do what they are used to doing.  

For you guys in cold climates when the courses shut down, that's when you should be working on your drills.  You can't be tempted to join your buddies for nine holes or play in your weekly league next week.  It's a commitment that you have to immerse yourself in the change to the exclusion of your old swing.  You can't get rid of bad habits... you have to replace your bad habits with new, good habits, and that takes time.

For guys who can play all year, good luck!!  It boils down to:  Do you want to really make the change, or are you looking for a fast fix before your next round of golf?  I think we all know the fast fix isn't there for a swing fault that's been around for 30 years.  I speak from experience.  

We don’t stop playing the game because we get old; we get old because we stop playing the game.”

  • 1 month later...
Posted

Just worked with Milo Lines of Golfletics at Superstition Mountain. Got some added insight from Mike Malaska as well. Been watching both of them on youtube for some time. Was really a great experience. Milo stripped the swing way down. Gave me two thoughts and several drills to ingrain the motion. We made a slight adjustment to my grip as well. Then the focus was really on, getting the drills and feels right, and then to hit 1/4, 1/3, and 1/2 shots. And that was all we did. It wasn't my focus, but everything is built on getting the path and face right. And doing it over and over again. Malaska was really impressed with how quick I was catching on, but still the parting sentiments were basically do not come back next week unless you feel lost. Otherwise you need to put the work in to master this part. Right now I feel like I fully grasp the concepts and am committed to them. You have 2 years of software to reprogram. Do the drills, reprogram the body, and come back when you really feel that this solid foundation is built, and we will take it to the next level.

Even still, went out the next day and shot a personal low 77 at a particularly difficult course.   

GARSEN GRIP TESTER

  • Driver: PING G400 MAX, Ventus Blue 6x
  • Woods: COBRA F6 Baffler AD DI 8S
  • Hybrid: CALLAWAY Apex Pro, Ventus Blue 8s
  • Irons: SRIXON ZX5 mk2 5-6, ZX7 mk2 7-PW, Modus 120x
  • Wedges: EDEL 50 C grind, 54 V grind, CLEVELAND 60 RTX6 Low
  • Putter: YES Abbie!

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