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Anyone ever compare new drivers to older ones on a launch monitor


Another Steve

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On 4/15/2021 at 3:34 PM, Another Steve said:

I'm wanting to maybe upgrade from my old TM 580XD to something 2017 or newer, but don't have too much of an option to compare side by side at the moment. My gut tells me that I "might" see some distance just because of reduced spin and mis-hit forgiveness. I'm particularly interested in spin numbers and launch angle as I vaguely remember hitting the R580XD on a monitor over a decade ago and and what sticks in my mind are 18+* launch and 3500+spin. I did hit a Ping G425 and a Callaway Epic Speed on a monitor a couple weeks ago at a GolfGalaxy, was not a full fitting, just a test drive. Ping never felt right but they got the Callaway as close to feeling good as they could as they "said" that they had no X-Flex shafts and nothing with mid-size grips. I didn't have full confidence in the feel and didn't have a fully controlled a full swing. The end result was center hits with swing path varried 1.5* either side of straight in but optimal launch numbers. Trackman carry was a little better than real world lasered results from a round played a few days earlier.

 

Anywho.... have any of you got any numbers from side x side monitor sessions of TM R5xx series vs TM M series, Sim, Callaway Epic, Mavrik, Maybe Cobra? 

Every time I look to upgrade I always take my current driver to the fitting to do a fair comparison.  My fitter actually recommends this so we can see if we need to move forward.  He has always told me that if I do not get at least at ten yard improvement with my driver, no need to change.  At 75 years of age, distance and accuracy is important.   My current Titleist 917D2 launch angle is 14*, 93mph, 2200 spin, 132mph ball spin.....ball carry 225+ yards with about an additional 15-20+ yards of roll....passed on last TS2 model but will be testing the new TSi2.  Have heard nothing but outstanding reviews regarding distance and accuracy.  My shafts of choice are the Fujikura Tour Speeders.   Both of the Titleist Certified fitters that I use have over 30 years experience in fitting and do not work for big box stores.  I love to be able to work the ball on demand.  Slight cut and draw, plus be able to hammer it straight, low and high, due to winds coming in off the coast. 😃      

 

Driver - TSi3 10.75* - Fujikura Speeder 661 TR

Fairway - TSi2 14.25* - Fujikura Motore Speeder VC 6.1 

Fairway - TSR1 17.0* - Fujikura Vista Pro 65S

Hybrid - TSR1 20.0* - Fujikura Atmos Red Tour 75  

Hybrid - TSR1 23.0* - Fujikura Atmos Red Tour 75

Irons - T350 (2023) - 6-48W - True Temper AMT Red 95g-107g

Wedges - Vokey SM9 - 52.08F, 56.10S - True Temper AMT Red 94 

**  GolfPride MCC +4 Midsize Grips  (all woods/irons/wedges)

Putter - 2023 Scotty Cameron Super Select Squareback 2 35" 

**  Superstroke 1.0 Pistol Grip  

Golf Ball - TITLEIST - Prov1s (2023)                                                         

Golf Bags - TITLEIST  - Cart 14 (black), Mid Size Tour (black/white)

Golf Glove - FootJoy (StaSof), Shoes, Apparel and Outerwear        

Rangefinder - Bushnell Pro XE

 

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As has been said, and wisely, you need to test it yourself.  Any new club should be tested vs your current gamer.

In general, your good strikes will not be that different in performance, assuming your old driver fits you well.  You should get better performance in heel/toe and low/high strikes.  So better dispersion and consistency/strokes gained.  But not necessarily better on your best shots or max distance. YMMV.

8* SIM2 Custom / PX RDX Smoke Black 6.0 46.5"

15* SIM Ti / Velocore 7s

19* SIM Max Hy / GOST 39.5"

4,5 Srixon ZX5  6-P Srixon ZX7  ProjectX LZ 120 6.0

50/54/58 Cleveland Zipcore DG Tour Issue

Scotty Cameron Phantom X12, Stability Tour shaft and SuperStroke

JumboMax Ultralight Small on Driver, Golf Pride Tour Velvet (irons and MCC (woods) Mid on all others.

TP5X Pix  and -ProV1

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I did some digging and found my old post regarding a comparison with a TM M1, Cobra F7+ and the old Adams Launch Lab (released in 2012). 

I know I can't compare the new 2020/2021 releases to the Adams since I've sold it away to another lefty, but the Adams held it's own compared to the 2016 M1. I did another comparison when I bought my 2020 TM SIM with the 2017 TM M1 and saw exactly 0 yards gained between the two (using the same shaft). You probably see more forgiveness with newer drivers but unless your swing isn't matching up with the current shaft/head combo, then you might not see a huge jump in distance on well struck shots. 

Cobra Connect 5 Competitor - Team Chad

  • :cobra-small: King Radspeed 10.5* w/ Hzrdus RDX Blue 60 6.5 tipped 1/2" - Peacoat/Red
  • :cobra-small: King Radspeed Big Tour 3 Wood w/ Hzrdus RDX Blue 70 6.5 Tipped 1/2"
  • :cobra-small: King Radspeed Tour 5 Wood w/ Motore X F1 70 X Flex 
  • :cobra-small: King Utility 4 21* w/ Tensei Pro White 100 X Flex
  • :cobra-small: King Tour MIM Copper Irons 5-G w/ AMT White X100 Onyx
  • :cobra-small: King MIM Black Wedges 55* & 60* w/ AMT White X100 Onyx
  • :taylormade-small: Spider SR
  • :titelist-small: Pro V1x Left Dash
  • Lefty
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On 4/23/2021 at 10:17 AM, txgolfjunkie said:

I did some digging and found my old post regarding a comparison with a TM M1, Cobra F7+ and the old Adams Launch Lab (released in 2012). 

I know I can't compare the new 2020/2021 releases to the Adams since I've sold it away to another lefty, but the Adams held it's own compared to the 2016 M1. I did another comparison when I bought my 2020 TM SIM with the 2017 TM M1 and saw exactly 0 yards gained between the two (using the same shaft). You probably see more forgiveness with newer drivers but unless your swing isn't matching up with the current shaft/head combo, then you might not see a huge jump in distance on well struck shots. 

I think the biggest change in driver tech in the past 10 years has been the low spin options... the SLDR was a monster because of it's low spin options (and Adams was ahead of the curve).. other than that, I think it's just a question of what shaft you are playing... I do think there have been some shaft upgrades, or at least some more variety in shafts to gain some tangible benefits from.

I was happily playing a Cobra LTD Pro until I won a Mavrik... If I hadn't felt guilty about selling the Mavrik, I would have sold it... I ended up tossing a Ventus Black into it, and it's now a monster, but I'm confident the Cobra would have been equally happy with the Ventus Black in it... (sadly, I scratched the head with an alignment stick and thus the Cobra is now resting in a place of honor in my basement).

I also think that every generation of heads has it's plusses and minuses, and if you don't think you are getting the numbers you want it's worth the time to try some new stuff... but my stock recommendation for people looking for cheap drivers is to figure out what shaft they want and then buy that and play whatever head it is attached to... 

Mavrik 9 degree - Ventus Black 7X

Mavrik 13.5 Degree - Hazardus Smoke

Sub70 19 degree - Proforce V2 8F5

Sub70 4u - Proforce V2 8F5

Sub70 5i - DG S400

Adams CMB 6-GW - Project X 6.0

Sub70 54 (286) and 58 (JB Low Bounce) - S300

SeeMore Trimetal Mallet (Custom fit and built... Kudos to Cody)

And as always, Kudos to Craigers.

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On 4/15/2021 at 12:34 PM, Another Steve said:

I'm wanting to maybe upgrade from my old TM 580XD to something 2017 or newer, but don't have too much of an option to compare side by side at the moment. My gut tells me that I "might" see some distance just because of reduced spin and mis-hit forgiveness. I'm particularly interested in spin numbers and launch angle as I vaguely remember hitting the R580XD on a monitor over a decade ago and and what sticks in my mind are 18+* launch and 3500+spin. I did hit a Ping G425 and a Callaway Epic Speed on a monitor a couple weeks ago at a GolfGalaxy, was not a full fitting, just a test drive. Ping never felt right but they got the Callaway as close to feeling good as they could as they "said" that they had no X-Flex shafts and nothing with mid-size grips. I didn't have full confidence in the feel and didn't have a fully controlled a full swing. The end result was center hits with swing path varried 1.5* either side of straight in but optimal launch numbers. Trackman carry was a little better than real world lasered results from a round played a few days earlier.

 

Anywho.... have any of you got any numbers from side x side monitor sessions of TM R5xx series vs TM M series, Sim, Callaway Epic, Mavrik, Maybe Cobra? 

I recently upgraded out of an old TaylorMade R15 I had been using to the Callaway Mavrik Sub Zero. When I did my fitting in October, I probably hit my R15 as best as I ever had. I had tuned in the R15 to the proper loft (8*), lie angle, and had the weight track in the best place for my swing at the time. Most of the strikes were around the middle of the face and it was as consistent as I have ever been with a driver. I didn't think I could get much better until I started hitting other clubs and saw a huge spike in distance. Some of the drivers I only took a few swings with because I didn't like the feel/look.

Unfortunately, the data didn't fully upload from my first fitting, but luckily when I went back to do another iron fitting and hit some drivers, the Mavrik SZ that I was fit into the first time had very similar numbers from my first in October.

Here is my baseline with the R15

1789394698_R1510_21_2020.png.f2ce696830afb5d9039b0762cd3276ee.png

As you can see, fairly respectable and consistent, which I can say is a very rare feat for me with my driver. 

Below are the numbers for the TaylorMade SIM, Ping G410, SIM MAX, and Callaway Mavrik (just the regular, not SZ).

1915926110_SimandG41010_21_2020.png.5c1b9eb82aa22f6bd4472ee445ec1c6e.png1571102404_SimMAX10_21_2020.png.a3063177db9e36a655542d2143f18084.png

754548430_Mavrik10_21_2020.png.bf9121e0429a83333532c7961504986a.png

I think the biggest takeaway from those was that I was swinging the club slower and getting better ball speed/smash factor with higher launch, more spin, and yet more distance than the R15.

My miss with a driver is a hook, and with a draw-favoring swing and most drivers being draw-biased, my fitter/teaching pro was working on finding the best club/shaft combination that would reduce that miss. We decided I would be better with a little fade/cut occasionally if it meant reducing the hook. I immediately hit slight draws with the Mavrik SZ and went forward with that as my fit. While I am about a 12 handicap and the SZ is marketed towards the lower range, I like it because it reduces my overdrawing the ball. However, I am a 12 because I am inconsistent, so days when my driver isn't working are long days.

Here are my most recent numbers for my Mavrik SZ

1072286147_Mavrik3.6_2021.png.41380dfafc5ced7d2d4875d40a7d8e0f.png 

It was a little cooler in the morning, and I will say I was still shedding off some winter weight during this February fitting, which I attribute to the lower clubhead speed. But overall, compared to my old R15, my new Mavrik is SZ is 17 yards longer in carry distance. I've only had the Mavrik for 4 months compared to about a year I had been tweaking and hitting the R15 after getting it used.

Hope this helps!

Driver:titleist-small: TSR3 9° (Fujikura Ventus TR Red 6X)

Woods: (3W:titleist-small: TSi2 15° (Fujikura Ventus Blue TR 7S); (7W:callaway-small: Rogue ST Max 21° (Fujikura Ventus Blue 7S) 

4 Hybrid:taylormade-small: SIM2 Rescue 22° (Fujikura Ventus Blue HY 80S)

5i-6i:taylormade-small: P770 (Nippon Modus3 105 S)

7i-PW:Miura: CB-301 (Nippon Modus3 105 S) 

Wedges: :ping-small: Glide 4.0 50 S & 54 S (Nippon Modus3 105 S); Glide Forged Eye2 59 (Nippon Ping Z-Z115)

Putter:odyssey-small: Toulon Design Las Vegas H7 (BGT Stability Tour 2 Polar)

All Clubs Equipped with :Arccos:

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On 4/18/2021 at 11:59 AM, JohnFP said:

Bad news is that I'm 65 now instead of 45 so I'm hitting it 20 yards shorter than I used to, I seem to lose about 5 yds a year since I turned 60

I feel your pain, though I'm a few years younger.  I'm down more than 20 yards off the tee, thanks to aging and injuries.  Its rather sobering.

If I'd had something as pedestrian as my XCG7 Beta, King LTD, Fly-Z+....  available to me when I was at my peak tee game distance about a dozen years ago, my recent distance loss would be more stark.

Felt like offering a "shared misery" post.   🥴

Driver: TM Original One 11.5* set to 11*, Aldila NV75 X, 43.5" -or- SpeedZone, HZRDUS Black 75 6.5, 43.5"
3w:  Cobra King LTD, RIP Beta 90, 42" -or- Stage 2 Tour, NV105 X, 42.5"
2h or 3h:  TaylorMade Stage 2 Tour, Aldila NV105 S -or- RIP Alpha 105 S
Irons:  3-PW Mizuno MP37, Recoil Proto 125 F4 (reshaft in progress, slowly); 1i & 3-PW Golden Ram TW276, NV105 S; 2-PW Golden Ram TW282, RIP Tour 115 R
GW: Dynacraft Dual Milled CNC 52*, Steelfiber 125 S; Scratch 8620 DS 53*, Steelfiber 125 S
SW:  Ram TG-898 56*, DGX ss2x; Ram Tom Watson 55*, DGX ss2x; Wilson Staff PMP 58*, DGS; PM Grind 19 58*, stock shaft
Putter:  Snake Eyes Viper Tour Sv1, 34"; Ping Scottsdale TR Craz-E, 35"; Cleveland Huntington Beach 1, 35"
Ball:  Wilson Staff Duo Professional, Bridgestone Tour B-RXS, Callaway Chrome Soft

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  • 2 weeks later...

Went to a top tracer range with a team mate and he ended up renting an old TM Bubble 2 from 1997. I hit my TM SIM2MAXD and the TM Bubble. Average ball speeds on the SIM2 were slightly higher but overall was very close. The SIM2 had longer drives for sure but average wasnt seeing a HUGE difference not like 20+ years of difference lol.

Driver : :taylormade-small: SIM2 Max 9* MC Kuro Kago Silver 60 Stiff

Woods : :benhogan-small: GS53 3 Wood 14* Mitsubish Tensei Blue 73g Regular

Hybrids: sub70logo.png.3c207e4e90c1eeca7b9a917b5fa4b848.png 949X Project X HZRDUS RDX Black 

Irons : sub70logo.png.3c207e4e90c1eeca7b9a917b5fa4b848.png 699 Pro Black 5-AW 1* flat KBS Tour V 90 Stiff Shafts 

Wedges : File:Kirkland Signature logo.svg - Wikimedia Commons 52, 56, 60 

Putter : :taylormade-small:Spider Red

Bag : datrek-brand_1456761019__86876.original.jpg.7c24f9ae71c7730ce29a828226731487.jpg lightweight cart bag | motocaddy.jpg.258c0b46e60c2804fc6b1f64bca0aef3.jpgDry Series Bag

Ball :  :taylormade-small: TP5 PIX (2019) | Screen-Shot-2017-07-20-at-7_24.05-AM-300x118.png.9f1c4cb1d62511ee40a05bd6d5795f97.png ProV1x (2021)

Rangefinder : 836d5c8b9e44880db86abcd3b735255d.w2480_h836.jpg.bcd4050c642957abbdca7453a6cb0469.jpg ULT-X

Pushcart : motocaddy.jpg.258c0b46e60c2804fc6b1f64bca0aef3.jpgM5 GPS DHC Electric Push Cart

SoCal, USA

Right handed HDCP 16.4

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16 hours ago, golfish! said:

Went to a top tracer range with a team mate and he ended up renting an old TM Bubble 2 from 1997. I hit my TM SIM2MAXD and the TM Bubble. Average ball speeds on the SIM2 were slightly higher but overall was very close. The SIM2 had longer drives for sure but average wasnt seeing a HUGE difference not like 20+ years of difference lol.

This reminds me of a Youtube vid I've seen.  Guy compared a newer driver that I don't remember exactly, against a Cobra Deep Face.  Threw up some launch data at the end, talked about how much longer the newer stick was than the Cobra.

What was glossed over...  the swingspeed difference between the clubs, because of the sheer club length difference.  Such as I remember, if you compared smash factor, they were pretty equivalent.

Since I already play a 43.25" or 43.5" driver anyway, I'm going to test this myself; picked up a Deep Face clubhead, going to put it on an NV75 at 43.5" and give it some play at some point this summer.  🙂

Because, why wouldn't you?   LOL

Driver: TM Original One 11.5* set to 11*, Aldila NV75 X, 43.5" -or- SpeedZone, HZRDUS Black 75 6.5, 43.5"
3w:  Cobra King LTD, RIP Beta 90, 42" -or- Stage 2 Tour, NV105 X, 42.5"
2h or 3h:  TaylorMade Stage 2 Tour, Aldila NV105 S -or- RIP Alpha 105 S
Irons:  3-PW Mizuno MP37, Recoil Proto 125 F4 (reshaft in progress, slowly); 1i & 3-PW Golden Ram TW276, NV105 S; 2-PW Golden Ram TW282, RIP Tour 115 R
GW: Dynacraft Dual Milled CNC 52*, Steelfiber 125 S; Scratch 8620 DS 53*, Steelfiber 125 S
SW:  Ram TG-898 56*, DGX ss2x; Ram Tom Watson 55*, DGX ss2x; Wilson Staff PMP 58*, DGS; PM Grind 19 58*, stock shaft
Putter:  Snake Eyes Viper Tour Sv1, 34"; Ping Scottsdale TR Craz-E, 35"; Cleveland Huntington Beach 1, 35"
Ball:  Wilson Staff Duo Professional, Bridgestone Tour B-RXS, Callaway Chrome Soft

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