Jump to content

Anyone ever compare new drivers to older ones on a launch monitor


Another Steve
 Share

Recommended Posts

I'm wanting to maybe upgrade from my old TM 580XD to something 2017 or newer, but don't have too much of an option to compare side by side at the moment. My gut tells me that I "might" see some distance just because of reduced spin and mis-hit forgiveness. I'm particularly interested in spin numbers and launch angle as I vaguely remember hitting the R580XD on a monitor over a decade ago and and what sticks in my mind are 18+* launch and 3500+spin. I did hit a Ping G425 and a Callaway Epic Speed on a monitor a couple weeks ago at a GolfGalaxy, was not a full fitting, just a test drive. Ping never felt right but they got the Callaway as close to feeling good as they could as they "said" that they had no X-Flex shafts and nothing with mid-size grips. I didn't have full confidence in the feel and didn't have a fully controlled a full swing. The end result was center hits with swing path varried 1.5* either side of straight in but optimal launch numbers. Trackman carry was a little better than real world lasered results from a round played a few days earlier.

 

Anywho.... have any of you got any numbers from side x side monitor sessions of TM R5xx series vs TM M series, Sim, Callaway Epic, Mavrik, Maybe Cobra? 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I haven't personally done that but there was a recent MGS Most Wanted test on drivers for high swing speed which I assume you are given the x flex reference.  Check under the most wanted tab at the top of the front page.  They had last years winner, the G410 LST in the test and it did pretty well against the new drivers.  The G400 also gets good comparisons to the newer Pings too.  

Modern Bag: :Sub70:  849 Pro 9*, Hazrdous Smoke S Flex;   :titelist-small:  915F 3w, Diamana S+ 70 S flex;  Snake Eyes 15*, & 23* Hybrids; :mizuno-small: JPX 900 Forged 5 - PW, PX LZ 6.0;  :cleveland-small: Tour Action 49*, 53*, 57*; PX LZ 6.5 ;  :ping-small: Ancient Anser or Heppler Fetch (depends on the week);  Ball - :Snell: MTB-Black; Bag - :1590477705_SunMountain: H2NO 

Shot Scope H4, MG600 Rangefinder

Classic Bag:  Driver - :wilson_staff_small: Persimmon; 3w - :Hogan: Speed Slot; 5w - :wilson_staff_small: Tour Block; 3 - pw - :wilson_staff_small: Dynapower; sw - Ram Tom Watson;  putter - bullseye standard or flange.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Yeah, I looked at the most wanted report... it doesn't help me at all. IMHO its a 30,000 foot summary, I really don't care how the data averages out.... What I want to see is unprocessed raw data and I will make my own analysis. 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

41 minutes ago, Another Steve said:

Yeah, I looked at the most wanted report... it doesn't help me at all. IMHO its a 30,000 foot summary, I really don't care how the data averages out.... What I want to see is unprocessed raw data and I will make my own analysis. 

 

The only way you can do that is by looking at your own swings side by side on a launch monitor.   Spin and Launch numbers will be based on your swing. 

  • Like 2

Driver:  :ping-small: G400 Max 9* w/ KBS Tour Driven
Fairway: :titelist-small: TS3 15* set  to 16.5* w/Project X Hzardous Smoke
Hybrids:  :titelist-small: 816H1 19* set at 18* w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype
                :titelist-small: 915H  21*  w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype        
Irons:      :honma:TR20V 5-11 w/Vizard TR20-85 Graphite
Wedge:  :mizuno-small: T20 54-8  :cleveland-small: 588  58-12
Putter: Auditions ongoing 

Backups:  :taylormade-small:TM-180, :odyssey-small: Milled Collection RSX 2, Bellum Winmore 787, :seemore-small: mFGP2, logo-horizontal-black.svg Directed Force 2.1

Member:  MGS Hitsquad since 2017697979773_DSCN2368(Custom).JPG.a1a25f5e430d9eebae93c5d652cbd4b9.JPG

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It all depends on your swing but just to give you an idea


I did a fitting for the PXG 0211 driver yesterday, I had my Callaway XR with Matrix Black Tie shaft to compare side by side.

Same swing, same ball

PXG driver gave me 10–13 mph more ball speed, launch was 1.5* higher but spin was 750-900 rpm less

I was seeing a 15-25 yard increase in carry distance on average


Sent from my iPad using MyGolfSpy

  • Like 2

 

 

:callaway-small: XR Driver Matrix Ozik 8m3 Black Tie Shaft

:cobra-small: King F7 3W UST Mamiya Chrome Elements 7F4 Shaft

:cobra-small: King F7 5W UST Mamiya Chrome Elements 7F4 Shaft

:cobra-small: King F7 4 Hybrid Graphite Designs Tour AD-HY 95 Shaft

PXG 0211 DC 5-PW Mitsubishi MMT 80 Shafts

:cleveland-small: RTX ZIPCORE 50*,54*,58* UST Mamiya Recoil 95 Shafts

:odyssey-small: Metal X Milled #7 with SuperStroke 2.0 grip

:Snell: MTB

 

 



Twitter: @timldotson
Instagram: timldotson
Facebook: TimDotson

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I know that spin and launch numbers are based on the swing. It may not be My swing, but it IS someone's swing that is compared.... What i am looking for is ANY numbers on the older heads compared to newer ones. I've tried searching utoob but there are no decent technical comparisons.

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I doubt you will be able to find something like that. You can barely see 2 or 3 current head compared with the same shaft, and again, it all depend on the swing.

From what I've seen in a few personal fitting this year is that spin tend to be reduced in newer head compared to older one. Sidespin and spin was way lower on 2 current head from this year vs his old Nike Vr-S 2012 driver for my friend. When he wouldn't catch the ball perfectly on the Nike Vr-S numbers were all over the place compared to the ping g425 or sim2 with standard stiff shaft. He then got fitted with the correct shaft and those numbers got even better. Price was too high for the new driver, he wanted to wait and he broke his shaft so had to buy a used one. He got a callaway XR stiff flex, spin was in between the Nike VR-S and the current model, huge improvement vs the Nike VR-S but still was not up to the current year model, 5-10 yards less in carry in general for the XR vs the ping g425. So from what I've read, you could gain around 10 yards or so on most model due to better ball speed and lower spin.

As for data on the most driver wanted test, you don't have all the shot done, you only have the average per tester if I remember correctly that you can download from the chart.

image.png.0fb386f5ce28cba23e4587efaaed0dc6.png

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 hours ago, Another Steve said:

I know that spin and launch numbers are based on the swing. It may not be My swing, but it IS someone's swing that is compared.... What i am looking for is ANY numbers on the older heads compared to newer ones. I've tried searching utoob but there are no decent technical comparisons.

 

 

Rick Shiels has done 5 year comparisons a couple times. Take a look at his videos.

I think what others have said is very important: another person’s swing is not yours, so it’s not possible to take their data and say yours will be the same. Speed of your swing, how steep or shallow you are, your angle of attack, how your body moves during the swing, your hands, etc will all be different giving you different numbers.

Anyway, best of luck! There are single videos on YouTube by guys trying out the “new” drivers each year, so you could fast forward to the results each time and make a list....

  • Like 4

Driver: :cobra-small: King F9 Speedback/:callaway-small:Epic Max LS, Xphlexxx Busa 2 Liquid, XX stiff, 45”

Fwy:  :callaway-small: Epic Speed 4w, MMT 80X

Hybrid: :callaway-small: X2 Hot Pro, 20*, Graphite Design Tour AD-DI 105X

Irons: :honma:TR20 Tour P 4-10, :Nippon: Modus 130 stiff, +1”

Wedges: :edel-golf-1: SMS 50D/54V/58D:Nippon:Modus 130 stiff, +1”

Putter:  :edel-golf-1: EAS 1.0

All but putter have Lamkin ST+2 Hybrid Calibrate midsize built to oversize +1

Link to comment
Share on other sites

9 minutes ago, PMookie said:

Speed of your swing, how steep or shallow you are, your angle of attack, how your body moves during the swing, your hands, etc will all be different giving you different numbers.

Bingo. And contact consistency on the face will impact it as well especially when going back to almost a decade and how much has changed over that time. 

  • Like 2

Driver: PXG 0811 X+ Proto w/UST Helium 5F4

Wood: TaylorMade M5 5W w/Accra TZ5 +1/2”, TaylorMade Sim 3W w/Aldila rogue white

Hybrid: PXG Gen2 22* w/AD hybrid

Irons: PXG Gen3 0311T w/Nippon modus 120

Wedges: TaylorMade MG2 50*, Tiger grind 56/60

Putter: Scotty Caemeron Super Rat1

Ball: Titleist Prov1

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I know that spin and launch numbers are based on the swing. It may not be My swing, but it IS someone's swing that is compared.... What i am looking for is ANY numbers on the older heads compared to newer ones. I've tried searching utoob but there are no decent technical comparisons.
 
 

Depending on where you hit the clubface, your miss, and how well that driver fit you the newer drivers may provide no benefit or significant benefit.

I was part of the 5 year MGS driver test and like the results indicated there was little difference over 5 years.

I have seen people hit 20+ year old drivers the same distance they hit current drivers because they hit the ball in the center of the face.

The detail you would need to make this comparison just isn’t available.
  • Like 4

Driver:  :ping-small: G400 Max 9* w/ KBS Tour Driven
Fairway: :titelist-small: TS3 15* set  to 16.5* w/Project X Hzardous Smoke
Hybrids:  :titelist-small: 816H1 19* set at 18* w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype
                :titelist-small: 915H  21*  w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype        
Irons:      :honma:TR20V 5-11 w/Vizard TR20-85 Graphite
Wedge:  :mizuno-small: T20 54-8  :cleveland-small: 588  58-12
Putter: Auditions ongoing 

Backups:  :taylormade-small:TM-180, :odyssey-small: Milled Collection RSX 2, Bellum Winmore 787, :seemore-small: mFGP2, logo-horizontal-black.svg Directed Force 2.1

Member:  MGS Hitsquad since 2017697979773_DSCN2368(Custom).JPG.a1a25f5e430d9eebae93c5d652cbd4b9.JPG

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

32 minutes ago, PMookie said:

Rick Shiels has done 5 year comparisons a couple times. Take a look at his videos.

Was just about to suggest this.  

Only take this with a grain of salt as most others have mentioned, his results are specific to his swing and tendencies.  Also, there can be no way of knowing exactly which swing he is using for his data or if any of the bad swing are cancelled out.

If you have a local golf store with used clubs, you could try to do a test with a couple drivers.   Probably wouldn't be able to go back much further than two iterations, but it's something.

  • Like 1

Driver:  image.png.3c6db1120d888f669e07d4a8f890b3f1.pngMavrik Sub Zero 9* (Set to 10) Ventus Blue 6X

2 Hybrid: :titelist-small: TSI3 Hybrid Tensei Blue 80 X (17.25*)

3 Hybrid :titelist-small: 818 H2 Hybrid Hzrdus RDX Black 6.5 (20.5*)

4 Iron -  :titelist-small: T200 4 Iron Graphite Design Tour AD IZ X Hybrid Shaft

Irons 5-PW:  :titelist-small: T100-S 5 - GW KBS Tour 130 X

Gap/Sand Wedge:  :titelist-small: Vokey SM6 49*  SM8 54* 

Lob Wedge:  image.png.3c6db1120d888f669e07d4a8f890b3f1.pngJaws 5 Wedge 58* DG Tour Issue Stiff

Putter:   :scotty-small: Phantom 5.5 34"      Pro Platinum Newport 2 35"      Taylormade Tour Black Spider 34"

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, juspoole said:

Only take this with a grain of salt as most others have mentioned, his results are specific to his swing and tendencies.  Also, there can be no way of knowing exactly which swing he is using for his data or if any of the bad swing are cancelled out.

To have watched tons of video from him, he tend to hide some specific data relevant to the test. Normally bad swing or bad hit are cancelled out cause I often want to know how a specific equipment behave when I don't hit the ball well. Also you often see ball speed but no clubhead speed or smash factor which render the comparison useless most of the time. He used to hit at around 105 mp/h at most of his driver he hit the ball at around 155+ which would normally relate to a good smash factor or Increased club head speed. He seems to be playing around with the number to not look bad on the screen. Since then I tend to watch video from 2nd swing, more data driven video and you can draw your own conclusion

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thanks guys.

I subscribe to Shiels' channel and have watched most of his videos. Also watch Ian at TXG and extensively searched utoob for videos of tests involving comparisons with older clubs.... What I was going after on the old heads was based on something that Ian said in one of the TXG videos that struck a chord with me. To paraphrase: "a lot of the launch characteristics and forgiveness of a head are baked into the DNA of the head (because of the face construction and the weighting)". We have seen so many tests of the clubs from the last 6 years that we pretty much know what they will do and we fine tune it with the shaft selection (or, for many, just stay away in the case of the SLDR). We do not have that book on the older heads. Center is center, but some clubheads will just spin more and fly higher. 

Pouetvl - What you've described with your friend sounds similar to my experience. I know at some point I will need to replace the 580XD, the question is when and with what. it's almost 20 years old so now seems like a good time to start looking.... designs seem to have plateaued over the last 5 years and there are decent club heads available that may add some forgiveness and be better optimized for todays balls.

Looks like I'll probably just pick a head that I like, swag a couple shafts and hit them head to head vs the 580XD.... Shafts are a whole different discussion..... the manufactures need to publish the EI profiles for their shafts and dispose of the flex letter rating....  but I digress.

 

Thanks again!

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

56 minutes ago, Another Steve said:

Thanks guys.

I subscribe to Shiels' channel and have watched most of his videos. Also watch Ian at TXG and extensively searched utoob for videos of tests involving comparisons with older clubs.... What I was going after on the old heads was based on something that Ian said in one of the TXG videos that struck a chord with me. To paraphrase: "a lot of the launch characteristics and forgiveness of a head are baked into the DNA of the head (because of the face construction and the weighting)". We have seen so many tests of the clubs from the last 6 years that we pretty much know what they will do and we fine tune it with the shaft selection (or, for many, just stay away in the case of the SLDR). We do not have that book on the older heads. Center is center, but some clubheads will just spin more and fly higher. 

Pouetvl - What you've described with your friend sounds similar to my experience. I know at some point I will need to replace the 580XD, the question is when and with what. it's almost 20 years old so now seems like a good time to start looking.... designs seem to have plateaued over the last 5 years and there are decent club heads available that may add some forgiveness and be better optimized for todays balls.

Looks like I'll probably just pick a head that I like, swag a couple shafts and hit them head to head vs the 580XD.... Shafts are a whole different discussion..... the manufactures need to publish the EI profiles for their shafts and dispose of the flex letter rating....  but I digress.

 

Thanks again!

Fujikura has ei profiles listed on their website for shafts

for $10 a month you can get access to them from golfshaftreviews

Driver: PXG 0811 X+ Proto w/UST Helium 5F4

Wood: TaylorMade M5 5W w/Accra TZ5 +1/2”, TaylorMade Sim 3W w/Aldila rogue white

Hybrid: PXG Gen2 22* w/AD hybrid

Irons: PXG Gen3 0311T w/Nippon modus 120

Wedges: TaylorMade MG2 50*, Tiger grind 56/60

Putter: Scotty Caemeron Super Rat1

Ball: Titleist Prov1

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Another Steve said:

Thanks guys.

I subscribe to Shiels' channel and have watched most of his videos. Also watch Ian at TXG and extensively searched utoob for videos of tests involving comparisons with older clubs.... What I was going after on the old heads was based on something that Ian said in one of the TXG videos that struck a chord with me. To paraphrase: "a lot of the launch characteristics and forgiveness of a head are baked into the DNA of the head (because of the face construction and the weighting)". We have seen so many tests of the clubs from the last 6 years that we pretty much know what they will do and we fine tune it with the shaft selection (or, for many, just stay away in the case of the SLDR). We do not have that book on the older heads. Center is center, but some clubheads will just spin more and fly higher. 

Pouetvl - What you've described with your friend sounds similar to my experience. I know at some point I will need to replace the 580XD, the question is when and with what. it's almost 20 years old so now seems like a good time to start looking.... designs seem to have plateaued over the last 5 years and there are decent club heads available that may add some forgiveness and be better optimized for todays balls.

Looks like I'll probably just pick a head that I like, swag a couple shafts and hit them head to head vs the 580XD.... Shafts are a whole different discussion..... the manufactures need to publish the EI profiles for their shafts and dispose of the flex letter rating....  but I digress.

 

Thanks again!

I remember hearing the same thing and it makes sense from a general sense.  The weight distribution on a given head design will predispose it to be more or less spinny than another design.  And the same for ball flight and forgiveness, again in a general sense.  Being able to move the head weights and also change the mass of those weights gives some adjustability within that heads tendency.  Then like you say the shaft is a whole 'nother animal to pair with the head and see what happens.  

For me experimenting with the weights and shafts is part of the fun and satisfies my tinkerer side!   

  • Like 1

Modern Bag: :Sub70:  849 Pro 9*, Hazrdous Smoke S Flex;   :titelist-small:  915F 3w, Diamana S+ 70 S flex;  Snake Eyes 15*, & 23* Hybrids; :mizuno-small: JPX 900 Forged 5 - PW, PX LZ 6.0;  :cleveland-small: Tour Action 49*, 53*, 57*; PX LZ 6.5 ;  :ping-small: Ancient Anser or Heppler Fetch (depends on the week);  Ball - :Snell: MTB-Black; Bag - :1590477705_SunMountain: H2NO 

Shot Scope H4, MG600 Rangefinder

Classic Bag:  Driver - :wilson_staff_small: Persimmon; 3w - :Hogan: Speed Slot; 5w - :wilson_staff_small: Tour Block; 3 - pw - :wilson_staff_small: Dynapower; sw - Ram Tom Watson;  putter - bullseye standard or flange.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm in the same boat. I still play a Titleist 907D2. I want to upgrade but I also want to take my old driver in to compare the numbers. Just not sure if it's allowed at most retailers.

Right handed golfer from Austin, Texas (Handicap: 8.1)

Driver: Titleist 907D2 (9.5 degree with stiff shaft)

Fairway Wood: Tayormade RocketBallz Stage 2 (3 Wood)

Hybrid: Cleveland CG Black (2 Iron)

Irons: Mizuno MP20 MMCs (Standard length and lie with stiff steel shafts)

Wedges: Callaway MD3 and Sub70

Putter: Scotty Cameron California Coronado

Ball: Pro V1x

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, tyryska said:

I'm in the same boat. I still play a Titleist 907D2. I want to upgrade but I also want to take my old driver in to compare the numbers. Just not sure if it's allowed at most retailers.

2nd Swing and Golf Glaxy had no problem with me doing that while I was just browsing and not seriously ready to buy.  Part of the 2nd swing 'fitting' was to compare the gamer to the new stuff when i was serious about buying.  

  • Like 2

Modern Bag: :Sub70:  849 Pro 9*, Hazrdous Smoke S Flex;   :titelist-small:  915F 3w, Diamana S+ 70 S flex;  Snake Eyes 15*, & 23* Hybrids; :mizuno-small: JPX 900 Forged 5 - PW, PX LZ 6.0;  :cleveland-small: Tour Action 49*, 53*, 57*; PX LZ 6.5 ;  :ping-small: Ancient Anser or Heppler Fetch (depends on the week);  Ball - :Snell: MTB-Black; Bag - :1590477705_SunMountain: H2NO 

Shot Scope H4, MG600 Rangefinder

Classic Bag:  Driver - :wilson_staff_small: Persimmon; 3w - :Hogan: Speed Slot; 5w - :wilson_staff_small: Tour Block; 3 - pw - :wilson_staff_small: Dynapower; sw - Ram Tom Watson;  putter - bullseye standard or flange.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

No 2nd Swing in PA anymore. there used to be one in Monroeville about 15 years ago, it where I bought the R580XD. There is a Golf Galaxy and a Club Champion in Robinson Twp\Pittsburgh that are within a half mile of each other but over an hour drive one way for me. The course I played last year has a couple golf simulators but they seem to have them set up to play a virtual round and not hit balls on the monitor for an hour. There is also a local fitter that has monitors for fitting and does the virtual golf in the winter. I don't know if he rents the time out with full access to the numbers. If I do a serious driver\shaft fitting I would likely talk to him. Guess it really will depend if I get serious about the game again. I need range time to grind the rust off of my swing and banish some flaws.

 

I think I may add some lead tape to the 5080XD to try to lower the spin\flight next time I play. Pretty easy to add a couple strips 4/8/12 grams low front on the sole.

Edited by Another Steve
Link to comment
Share on other sites

20 hours ago, Another Steve said:

I know that spin and launch numbers are based on the swing. It may not be My swing, but it IS someone's swing that is compared.... What i am looking for is ANY numbers on the older heads compared to newer ones. I've tried searching utoob but there are no decent technical comparisons.

 

 

On Youtube, Rick Shiels has done "five years of Company X drivers" reviews, for Ping, TaylorMade, Cobra, Callaway, not sure who all has been included.  Give them a look?

  • Like 1

Driver: TM Original One 11.5* set to 11*, Aldila NV75 X, 43.5" -or- SpeedZone, HZRDUS Black 75 6.5, 43.5"
3w:  Cobra King LTD, RIP Beta 90, 42" -or- Stage 2 Tour, NV105 X, 42.5"
2h or 3h:  TaylorMade Stage 2 Tour, Aldila NV105 S -or- RIP Alpha 105 S
Irons:  3-PW Mizuno MP37, Recoil Proto 125 F4 (reshaft in progress, slowly); 1i & 3-PW Golden Ram TW276, NV105 S; 2-PW Golden Ram TW282, RIP Tour 115 R
GW: Dynacraft Dual Milled CNC 52*, Steelfiber 125 S; Scratch 8620 DS 53*, Steelfiber 125 S
SW:  Ram TG-898 56*, DGX ss2x; Ram Tom Watson 55*, DGX ss2x; Wilson Staff PMP 58*, DGS; PM Grind 19 58*, stock shaft
Putter:  Snake Eyes Viper Tour Sv1, 34"; Ping Scottsdale TR Craz-E, 35"; Cleveland Huntington Beach 1, 35"
Ball:  Wilson Staff Duo Professional, Bridgestone Tour B-RXS, Callaway Chrome Soft

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

 Share

×
×
  • Create New...