Sub 70 Putters - 2023 Forum Review

[Dweed]

Added some content to my original post at the beginning. 

[Mr Orange]

Last night I played around with mishits with the putter. I purposely hit near the toe and heel to see how difference in feel was. I did not pay much attention to the roll as my basement is not exactly flat. Mishits off the toe and heel did feel slightly different with the 004 putter but the difference was overall minimal. I did the same thing with my oddysey og 7 and the difference of toe and heel hits was a much more significant difference. I suspect this is likely related to the fact the og 7 has the white hit instead. With off center hits definitely prefer the sub70 to the odyssey white hot.

[snoopy79]

Quick Update for those following along.

• Captured some data and some video a few days ago putting with the Sub 70 008. Two things that are super apparent to me 1) You can really feel the weight of this head at all times during the stroke 2) The contrasting alignment lines on this mallet stand out very well which helps with aiming
• I am doing a little extra research on the graphite/steel combo shaft and what the benefits may be
• I have several rounds planned to take this putter out. Oct 15, 21, and 28.
• I should have my first impressions content posted this weekend.

Any questions just let me know!

[Mr Orange]

15 minutes ago, snoopy79 said:

1) You can really feel the weight of this head at all times during the stroke

2nd this. I know I have a different putter head with the 004 but I upped the weights to the 20g weights and feel like I have a little extra control. 

[Glenmore5]

And roll those putts

[Mr Orange]

Stopped at golf Galaxy tonight to make adjustments to my putter. They did not change the loft (it was actually at about 4 degrees already and the odyssey was at 3 per their measurements). They did change the lie though. The lie on the sub70 was about 68-69 degrees he said the odyssey was 71. The lie adjustment seemed to do the trick and the 004 seems to be rolling even better now. 
 

I will note that the guy doing the adjustments at golf Galaxy immediately made comment to how good looking the putter was especially the all black look and that the quality was really good. I mentioned the price it would run for and he was surprised it was that good of a price especially for something that he felt was comparable to a Scotty based on his initial observations.

[Dweed]

Just a quick update from Mid Michigan. Yesterday the temp was mid 80's and partly sunny and today it's raining to beat the drum...All Day!! and 61 degrees. Moved testing of the @GolfSub70 004 Mallet to my indoor facilities. Not high tech but the main barn door does have an elec opener. I'm using a 9 foot putting mat on bare concrete floor. Checked the levels and both were level. Tracking how many consecutive putts I can make down a 4 foot metal measuring stick alternating between putters. Also capturing putts from the 3 foot and 6 foot distances. Not as much fun as being on the practice green but hey!

[BallsLeon]

13 hours ago, Mr Orange said:

They did change the lie though. The lie on the sub70 was about 68-69 degrees he said the odyssey was 71. The lie adjustment seemed to do the trick and the 004 seems to be rolling even better now. 

That’s pretty interesting! They list most of the putters lie as 72°, I don’t recall if you asked to have it adjusted? That would be 3-4° off then. 

The Sub70 definitely feels more upright than my Odyssey (lie 70° listed), I think that would line up with the 72° lie angle?  Still learning about club fitting, and etc.

[Mr Orange]

15 minutes ago, BallsLeon said:

That’s pretty interesting! They list most of the putters lie as 72°, I don’t recall if you asked to have it adjusted? That would be 3-4° off then. 

The Sub70 definitely feels more upright than my Odyssey (lie 70° listed), I think that would line up with the 72° lie angle?  Still learning about club fitting, and etc.

Yea that most certainly surprised me too. I ordered a standard lie so should have been 72. Interesting too that they said the loft was 4 as on the site it says 3 for the standard loft. Is now be curious what others would find if they took their putters in and had the loft and lie angles double checked.

[snoopy79]

be curious what others would find if they took their putters in and had the loft and lie angles double checked.

I will have to take mine in and check. Did you feel like the ball was rolling a certain direction or different before the adjustment?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Mr Orange]

3 minutes ago, snoopy79 said:

 

I will have to take mine in and check. Did you feel like the ball was rolling a certain direction or different before the adjustment?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

Prior to the adjustment there was a slight wobble to the roll (very subtle) After the adjustment the roll was perfect. I use a line to line up my putts and you can see it roll end over end perfectly.

[Mr Orange]

So I spent a solid hour at that practice green putting tonight and did a couple tests. First test I got out my tour aim and set it up to aid in aiming a set of putts with both the sub70 004 and my odyssey white hot OG 7.

For this test I set up roughly 20 ft from the hole and placed the ball under the middle alignment stick so that as far as aiming I was consistent. For each putter I hit 7 putts doing my best to focus on staying consistent. I wanted to focus on how the ball rolled. Did they all remain consistent with the line. What kind of grouping would they finish with. 
 

Results of the first test

 Sub70 004

 Oddysey OG 7

 As far as results go for this test things were quite similar. I made one putt with each putter and the others are a matter of distance control. Slight edge goes to the sub70 as the overall grouping is just a bit tighter but as you can see the balls are mostly in a vertical line which can be accounted for with me not quite perfectly consistent with my distance control. To note these greens are faster in general and this putt had bit of a break from left to right. It was fairly flat as well. 
 

After this I decided to do something a little different. There were 3 holes on the practice green so I made my own little course. I would putt from one hole to the next until I got back to the original hole. I did a total of 2 rounds (1 with each putter) and then reversed the course and did the holes in the opposite direction. I did a total of 12 holes with each putter. Each round (total 4 rounds with putter) I played all 3 holes with the same putter and then switched putters and started back at hole 1. So 3 holes with sub70, then 3 holes with odyssey, then back to sub70 and so forth. I figured while I would have an idea of the line this would lessen the impact by playing two other holes before repeating. I’ll add some pictures of each hole with some distances.

 Hole 1 - 33 ft - slight uphill then downhill 

hole 2 - 26 ft downhill with decent right to left break 

hole 3 - 42 ft - uphill then down and right to left break

 

hole 1 reverse - 42 ft - downhill with left to right break

 hole 2 reverse - 26 ft - uphill with left to right break

hole 3 reverse - 33 ft - downhill with right to left break right at the hole

And the results

Round 1 sub70

hole 1 - 2 putts - tap in for 2nd (1 ft)

Hole 2 - 3 putts - 2nd putt 13 ft short

Hole 3 - 3 putts - 2nd putt 12 ft short

Total 8 putts

Round 1 oddysey

Hole 1 - 3 putts - 6 ft for 2nd putt

Hole 2 - 2 putts - 2nd putt about 2.5 ft

Hole 3 - 3 putts - rimmed out from 6 ft on 2nd putt

Total 8 putts 

Round 2 sub70

hole 1 - 2 putts - 2nd putt from 2 ft

Hole 2 - 3 putts - 2nd from 7 ft

Hole 3 - 3 putts - 2nd from 6 ft

Total 8 putts

Round 2 oddysey 

hole 1 - 2 putts - 6 inches for 2nd

Hole 2 - 2 putts - 2 ft for 2nd

Hole 3 - 3 putts - 5 ft for 2nd putt

Total 7 putts

Round 3 reverse sub 70

hole 1 - 3 putts - 2nd putt rimmed from 5.5 ft

Hole 2 - 2 putts - 2nd from 6 ft

Hole 3 -  3 putts - 2nd from 7 ft

Total 8 putts

Round 3 reverse odyssey

hole 1 - 2 putts - 2nd from 12 ft

Hole 2 - 3 puts - 2nd from 6 ft

Hole 3 - 3 putts - 2nd from 7 ft

Total 8 putts

Round 4 reverse sub 70

hole 1 - 2 putts - 2nd from 3.5 ft

Hole 2 - 3 putts - 2nd from 9 ft

Hole 3 - 2 putts - 2nd from 4 ft

Total 7 putts

Round 4 reverse odyssey

hole 1 - 2 putts - 2nd from 2 ft

Hole 2 - 3 putts - 2nd from 9 ft

Hole 3 - 3 putts - 2nd from 6 ft

Total 8 putts

Sub 70 for 12 holes - 31 putts

Odyssey for 12 holes - 31 putts

 Overall the hour I spent on the putting green with the tests I did give me confidence that at worse the performance of the sub70 004 putter matches the performance of the oddysey white hot OG 7 putter. I gave a slight advantage to the odyssey putter as I started every round with the sub70. So I had more idea of the right line when I hit with the odyssey. End result both putters I took 31 putts for 12 holes. While it was not my best performance (I typically don’t miss some of these 5-7 ft putts as I did today) I set up some tough long putts to try to get some differentiation and did my best to prevent bias. At this point I have no problem moving the putter to my bag as I do prefer the look of the sub70 to the odyssey. I also feel I have a bit better control of the head with it being heavier. Next step will be to get out on the course and see if I’m still liking what I’m seeing.

 

 

Edited October 7, 2023 by Mr Orange

[snoopy79]

Hey spies! For those of you following I posted my First Impressions in my original post on page 1.

Check it out.

Next up are on the course tests over the next few weeks. Looking forward to it! Any questions just let me know

[BallsLeon]

I have lost the ability to edit my original post so please bear with me. Below is the original post with my Introduction:

First Impressions (19 out of 20) - 10/08/23
The Sycamore 009 Mini putter arrived late on Tuesday (9/26) about 8 days after the mods told us the order had been placed. I never received a shipping notification so I only noticed it had arrived when I was taking out the trash after cleaning up dinner. Really glad I did, and didn't leave it outside all night! The package looked to be in decent condition, and inside there were foam supports that lined the box providing plenty of protection.
Upon opening the package the first thing that greeted me was the almost blindingly neon green Garsen Ultimate grip. I have to come clean here, this was admittedly not my first choice and I had requested the red version (if possible). Not sure if that note was never received, or just unavailable, but the neon green has quickly won me over.
The next detail that stood out to me was the weight of this thing. For it's mini size, the 009 mini feels pretty dense. I would have said it's heavier than my Odyssey Eleven mallet. However, upon closer inspection with my kitchen scale the Odyssey is 11 grams heavier (535g Sub70 vs 546g Odyssey). Definitely something I want to mess with by the end of this review with the handy weight kit that was included! Also included in the box was a handwritten note from @GolfSub70, ball markers, and 009 mini putter cover with magnet closure.
Once out of the box, I was impressed by how quickly I was able to adjust to it. The more upright position of the Sub70 (72° lie angle) compared to that of the Odyssey (70° lie angle) let me get closer to the ball with my hands in slightly higher position that feels more natural. The Garsen Ultimate grip is quite a bit larger than the Odyssey pistol grip, but definitely for the better allowing me to still use a traditional putter grip comfortably. 
Now that I have had the putter for a couple weeks, I've been able to play one 9-hole round and two 18-hole rounds. Things started out pretty hot by matching my best 9-hole putting performance, 16 putts. I followed that up with another decent performance on a 18-hole round of 35 putts (20 front, 15 back). All good things come to an end, as I turned around and posted maybe one of my worst putting performances over 18-holes, 43 putts (24 front, 19 back). That looks not great, but even with that awful performance I am still managing a slightly better 9-hole average, 18.8 putts versus 19 putts prior. Really can't blame the putter for that performance, the ball is going exactly where I want but the operator was having trouble with speed (way too much) and reading greens. The performance of the putter is incredibly promising, excluding that round I would be averaging 17 putts over 9-holes, BUT that's not how golf works so have to include my good days with my bad.
I am docking one point here because of the lack of communication on shipping/ordering. I know this is not the traditional ordering process, but I am curious what the end-user experience would be for someone ordering. Potentially more on that to come...

Aesthetics (10 out of 10) - 10/08/23
This section of the review is incredibly easy for me with the 009 Mini being a solid 10 in my book. The design of the Sycamore line is quite simple: all black with white leaf stamps/detailing and the yellow Sycamore script. Paired with clean milled lines give it a very classy look. The putter cover does a good job extending that design aesthetic, and was pleased to find they are all model specific. As I mentioned above, the neon green Garsen was not my first choice, but I have found it pairs quite nicely with the black/yellow/white of the Sycamore line. Perhaps growing up in the 90s with Nickelodeon has made me predisposed to enjoying slime green. I've only played a few rounds so far, but have received compliments from strangers every round so far on it's looks.

[Dweed]

No matter what brand, I really prefer the aim line as close to the ball as possible.

[GolfSpy_APH]

12 hours ago, BallsLeon said:

I have lost the ability to edit my original post so please bear with me. Below is the original post with my Introduction:

First Impressions (19 out of 20) - 10/08/23
The Sycamore 009 Mini putter arrived late on Tuesday (9/26) about 8 days after the mods told us the order had been placed. I never received a shipping notification so I only noticed it had arrived when I was taking out the trash after cleaning up dinner. Really glad I did, and didn't leave it outside all night! The package looked to be in decent condition, and inside there were foam supports that lined the box providing plenty of protection.
Upon opening the package the first thing that greeted me was the almost blindingly neon green Garsen Ultimate grip. I have to come clean here, this was admittedly not my first choice and I had requested the red version (if possible). Not sure if that note was never received, or just unavailable, but the neon green has quickly won me over.
The next detail that stood out to me was the weight of this thing. For it's mini size, the 009 mini feels pretty dense. I would have said it's heavier than my Odyssey Eleven mallet. However, upon closer inspection with my kitchen scale the Odyssey is 11 grams heavier (535g Sub70 vs 546g Odyssey). Definitely something I want to mess with by the end of this review with the handy weight kit that was included! Also included in the box was a handwritten note from @GolfSub70, ball markers, and 009 mini putter cover with magnet closure.
Once out of the box, I was impressed by how quickly I was able to adjust to it. The more upright position of the Sub70 (72° lie angle) compared to that of the Odyssey (70° lie angle) let me get closer to the ball with my hands in slightly higher position that feels more natural. The Garsen Ultimate grip is quite a bit larger than the Odyssey pistol grip, but definitely for the better allowing me to still use a traditional putter grip comfortably. 
Now that I have had the putter for a couple weeks, I've been able to play one 9-hole round and two 18-hole rounds. Things started out pretty hot by matching my best 9-hole putting performance, 16 putts. I followed that up with another decent performance on a 18-hole round of 35 putts (20 front, 15 back). All good things come to an end, as I turned around and posted maybe one of my worst putting performances over 18-holes, 43 putts (24 front, 19 back). That looks not great, but even with that awful performance I am still managing a slightly better 9-hole average, 18.8 putts versus 19 putts prior. Really can't blame the putter for that performance, the ball is going exactly where I want but the operator was having trouble with speed (way too much) and reading greens. The performance of the putter is incredibly promising, excluding that round I would be averaging 17 putts over 9-holes, BUT that's not how golf works so have to include my good days with my bad.
I am docking one point here because of the lack of communication on shipping/ordering. I know this is not the traditional ordering process, but I am curious what the end-user experience would be for someone ordering. Potentially more on that to come...

Aesthetics (10 out of 10) - 10/08/23
This section of the review is incredibly easy for me with the 009 Mini being a solid 10 in my book. The design of the Sycamore line is quite simple: all black with white leaf stamps/detailing and the yellow Sycamore script. Paired with clean milled lines give it a very classy look. The putter cover does a good job extending that design aesthetic, and was pleased to find they are all model specific. As I mentioned above, the neon green Garsen was not my first choice, but I have found it pairs quite nicely with the black/yellow/white of the Sycamore line. Perhaps growing up in the 90s with Nickelodeon has made me predisposed to enjoying slime green. I've only played a few rounds so far, but have received compliments from strangers every round so far on it's looks.

How does the shaft feel? That is something I am very curious about as I am a big believer in non traditional Steel shafts.

Does it balance well, do you think this is a true upgrade at first glance?

[J7Hawkins]

12 hours ago, GolfSpy_APH said:

How does the shaft feel? That is something I am very curious about as I am a big believer in non traditional Steel shafts.

Does it balance well, do you think this is a true upgrade at first glance?

I second this question!

[Dweed]

18 hours ago, GolfSpy_APH said:

How does the shaft feel? That is something I am very curious about as I am a big believer in non traditional Steel shafts.

Does it balance well, do you think this is a true upgrade at first glance?

I have to admit that I'm glad I tried the steel/graphite shaft. On my mishits it is noticeable but not as bad as it feels on my all steel shaft. Now don't get me wrong, I like my OD but the feel of this @GolfSub70 004 mallet shaft combo is very good as well.

[BallsLeon]

On 10/9/2023 at 1:17 AM, GolfSpy_APH said:

How does the shaft feel? That is something I am very curious about as I am a big believer in non traditional Steel shafts.

Does it balance well, do you think this is a true upgrade at first glance?

@J7Hawkins I think it feels great, in comparison to my Odyssey with a Stroke Lab shaft it feels very similar if not the same. I wanted to call out that it felt like the Stroke Lab was more counterweighted, BUT after some research I think that's simply due to the grip weight (Odyssey - 79g vs Garsen - 55g). Additionally, I feel more vibration in my hands with the Stroke Lab, but the grip is also much thinner.

In regards to if it is an upgrade over steel... I can't speak to feeling or performance differences, but it sure does look cool.

[snoopy79]

On 10/9/2023 at 2:17 AM, GolfSpy_APH said:

How does the shaft feel? That is something I am very curious about as I am a big believer in non traditional Steel shafts.

Does it balance well, do you think this is a true upgrade at first glance?

I will chime in here as I have the same single-bend combo shaft on the 008. After 100 putts (approx), I can "feel" the weight of the putter head throughout the entire stroke. I don't know how else to describe it. With my other steel shafted putters I don't notice the head weight at all going back or through the ball. I think the balance of this is brilliant as i can get better feedback instantly.

Now i say this with quite a bit of bias....as I don't have any other quality putters to compare it with like @Mr Orange @Dweed or @BallsLeon . Their feedback is probably more valuable in this regard. My research discovered that Stroke Lab did indeed have combo shafts in some of their putters a while back. I haven't seen much data on those yet.

Edited October 10, 2023 by snoopy79

[J7Hawkins]

4 hours ago, BallsLeon said:

@J7Hawkins I think it feels great, in comparison to my Odyssey with a Stroke Lab shaft it feels very similar if not the same. I wanted to call out that it felt like the Stroke Lab was more counterweighted, BUT after some research I think that's simply due to the grip weight (Odyssey - 79g vs Garsen - 55g). Additionally, I feel more vibration in my hands with the Stroke Lab, but the grip is also much thinner.

In regards to if it is an upgrade over steel... I can't speak to feeling or performance differences, but it sure does look cool.

Awesome, thanks for the thorough response!

[Mr Orange]

4 hours ago, snoopy79 said:

Now i say this with quite a bit of bias....as I don't have any other quality putters to compare it with like @Mr Orange or @BallsLeon . Their feedback is probably more valuable. My research discovered that Stroke Lab did indeed have combo shafts in some of their putters a while back. I haven't seen much data on those yet.

Both my odyssey and the sub70 I got are all steel shaft so I can’t comment to anything with the graphite/steel combo

[Dweed]

On 10/10/2023 at 11:48 AM, snoopy79 said:

 . Their feedback is probably more valuable in this regard. 

Ah man, you give me too much credit. Your "insight" in describing the feel is 110% on. I could not have described it better. As such, I won't. You rocked it @snoopy79

[Dweed]

Had a chance to get out on the course after a week of weather shut-in. 55 and sunny. Little wind which is always nice at that temp. Biggest issue was all the courses that I have access to have completed their greens aeration process. To the say the least, they are a tad bit rough. Even the practice greens. Hoping another week will help to smooth them out so I can continue my outside testing process on the @GolfSub70 004 mallet. After @snoopy79 comments on feeling the weight of the mallet I paid special attention to that today.  You really can sense that weight going back and thru. One thing I noticed on the aerated greens is that I didn't find myself rushing the thru stroke to gain momentum for long putts as much as I need to with my OD. I'm hoping that smoothness translates into more made putts.

[BallsLeon]

On 10/10/2023 at 10:48 AM, snoopy79 said:

Now i say this with quite a bit of bias....as I don't have any other quality putters to compare it with like @Mr Orange @Dweed or @BallsLeon . Their feedback is probably more valuable in this regard. 

Doubtful! Unlike me, you can actually golf @snoopy79   I have the high-handicap demo covered though 

Speaking of, I got out for another round on Monday. Ended up finishing out with 36 putts, sooo close to that second sub-36 putt round.
Had 16 putts on the front, no 3-putts and two 1-putts, awesome! Then on the back it got a little out of hand with 20 putts, three 3-putts and one 1-putt .
I'd say the difference between front and back would be my green position, and just lack of focus. Ball striking was rough on the front 9 so I was relying heavily on my putter to close out quickly. On the back 9 I was finding my swing, getting on the greens sooner, but just mentally let off the gas and didn't capitalize.
That being said it's all still progress in the right direction!  My 9-hole putting average ticks down slightly from my First Impressions post. Now for a round where I can keep it up for 18-holes!

[Dweed]

1 hour ago, BallsLeon said:

Speaking of, I got out for another round on Monday. Ended up finishing out with 36 putts, sooo close to that second sub-36 putt round.

Great job of tracking your work and your results @BallsLeon. I like the graphics and data. There is one I didn't see though. How about your "Fun meter". I sure hope you have a high reading on that one as well. Keep enjoying my man.

[BallsLeon]

@Dweed I try my best! Had to remind myself of that around hole 7, and had a much better time

[Dweed]

16 minutes ago, BallsLeon said:

@Dweed I try my best! Had to remind myself of that around hole 7, and had a much better time

I hear ya. Some days it is so tough and then all of a sudden, that one magical shot happens. That's what keeps us coming back for sure.

[BallsLeon]

Went out to Ironhorse GC to practice this morning. First thing I did when I got there is putting with both putters from three different distances, 8 balls each. Didn’t want to give either putter an edge so did no warming up, and started with the Sub 70 and then switched to the Odyssey after eight putts.

Sub 70 Sycamore 009 Mini

• 3ft: 4, 4 - 8/8 (100%)
• 6ft: 1, 2 - 3/8 (38%)
• 9ft: 2, 3 - 5/8 (63%)
• Total: 16/24 (67%)

Odyssey Eleven Tour Lined S

• 3ft: 4, 3 - 7/8 (88%)
• 6ft: 2, 2 - 4/8 (50%)
• 9ft: 2, 1 - 3/8 (38%)
• Total: 14/24 (58%)

009 Mini was the overall winner today. Feeling more comfortable with the 009 than the Eleven, but what stood out to me today was speed. Especially from 6ft I was coming in way too hot with the 009, and running over or lipping out. The Eleven had the benefit of going second here, but it’s noticeable how much softer the ball comes off from the insert compared to a milled face. 

[BallsLeon]

Well... given the metrics to earn a spot in my bag, the Sycamore 009 Mini has earned a spot! I managed to post my second sub 36-putt round, something I've only done once in the past 3-months prior owning my Odyssey Eleven.

The putter was showing up today, I wish I had club tracking because a few of the 1-putts were from range. The three 3-putts came from deep green positions with bad first lag putts, they were tough reads but in all three I had a breakdown in my process and didn't give it a proper read/setup.

Was also terrible weather today , but I was having so much fun I forgot to notice. I took a picture of us teeing off on hole 11, it's hard to tell but it's currently raining and very windy (about 50°).