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tony@CIC

New Golf Handicap system

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Below is the link for a white paper from Golf Genius on the new worldwide handicap system that will be effective beginning January 1st. There are some pretty interesting changes, including the actual calculation , weather affecting slope ratings, etc. 

http://productionggs.s3.amazonaws.com/WHS-whitepaper.pdf

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33 minutes ago, tony@CIC said:

Below is the link for a white paper from Golf Genius on the new worldwide handicap system that will be effective beginning January 1st. There are some pretty interesting changes, including the actual calculation , weather affecting slope ratings, etc. 

http://productionggs.s3.amazonaws.com/WHS-whitepaper.pdf

That has been available for a while, and is a really good description of the various existing systems, and of the significant changes that will occur.  Still to be answered, at least for those of us in the USGA areas, are questions about what types of scores will be acceptable, whether we will still have to estimate the "most likely score", any requirement for attestation, etc.  I'm hoping to attend one of the Handicap Rule seminars to be held in my area to learn more.

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37 minutes ago, DaveP043 said:

That has been available for a while, and is a really good description of the various existing systems, and of the significant changes that will occur.  Still to be answered, at least for those of us in the USGA areas, are questions about what types of scores will be acceptable, whether we will still have to estimate the "most likely score", any requirement for attestation, etc.  I'm hoping to attend one of the Handicap Rule seminars to be held in my area to learn more.

As the weather cools down here and the wind really kicks up, it'll be interesting to see any changes to the slope rating at our course. 

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20 minutes ago, tony@CIC said:

As the weather cools down here and the wind really kicks up, it'll be interesting to see any changes to the slope rating at our course. 

Shouldn't be any, unless the course has changed.  As I understand it, the current USGA model will be used worldwide for Course Rating and Slope.  I know that gets tweaked occasionally, but US courses don't need to be re-rated to comply with the WHS.

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7 hours ago, DaveP043 said:

Shouldn't be any, unless the course has changed.  As I understand it, the current USGA model will be used worldwide for Course Rating and Slope.  I know that gets tweaked occasionally, but US courses don't need to be re-rated to comply with the WHS.

What I was referring to is the change in playing conditions - what they refer to as PCC  or Playing Conditions Calculation rather than a change in the slope rating . Here's a quote from an article from Golf.com:

What happens when I shoot 90 in good weather and 92 in bad weather?

The latter might actually improve your index more than the former. Because of the new Playing Conditions Calculation (PCC), scores posted at the same course on the same day will help determine if the course played more difficult (or easier) than normal, due to conditions or setup. Handicap differentials from all abilities of players will work together to create this calculation, and your handicap could be impacted because of it. “You look at the field for all scores posted on that day, regardless of what tee they played,” Edmondson said. “We know from our player equations from what we’ve modeled in the Handicap Index what are the expected scores for every golfer. When you get so many golfers that are higher or lower — outside of that [score] funnel — you would have an adjustment. This course played one stroke harder [than normal]. This course played two strokes harder. This course played one stroke easier.”

According to the USGA, this adjustment will not happen often, but it’s another reason why it’s important to post your score on the day you played. Scores posted retroactively will not contribute to the PCC, though they will be impacted by it. You’re helping the USGA (and golfers everywhere) by feeding more data into the system.

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20 minutes ago, tony@CIC said:

What I was referring to is the change in playing conditions - what they refer to as PCC  or Playing Conditions Calculation rather than a change in the slope rating . Here's a quote from an article from Golf.com:

What happens when I shoot 90 in good weather and 92 in bad weather?

The latter might actually improve your index more than the former. Because of the new Playing Conditions Calculation (PCC), scores posted at the same course on the same day will help determine if the course played more difficult (or easier) than normal, due to conditions or setup. Handicap differentials from all abilities of players will work together to create this calculation, and your handicap could be impacted because of it. “You look at the field for all scores posted on that day, regardless of what tee they played,” Edmondson said. “We know from our player equations from what we’ve modeled in the Handicap Index what are the expected scores for every golfer. When you get so many golfers that are higher or lower — outside of that [score] funnel — you would have an adjustment. This course played one stroke harder [than normal]. This course played two strokes harder. This course played one stroke easier.”

According to the USGA, this adjustment will not happen often, but it’s another reason why it’s important to post your score on the day you played. Scores posted retroactively will not contribute to the PCC, though they will be impacted by it. You’re helping the USGA (and golfers everywhere) by feeding more data into the system.

I have been wondering how they are going to determine how much more difficult a course will play.  Golf in my area is pretty tricky.  Not much rain, but lots of wind... sometimes.  It can be dead calm in the morning, then in the afternoon the wind blows 20-30 mph.  Likewise it can blow all night long and through the morning, then die out at noon.  I guess it's just the "luck of draw", and it will even out throughout the year.

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it will be based on scores posted for that day, as compared to standardized expectations. 

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55 minutes ago, DaveP043 said:

it will be based on scores posted for that day, as compared to standardized expectations. 

I spoke with my pro just the other day about this subject.  He pulled out some paper work and read where it would require at least 8 people to post it as playing more (or less) difficult than normal.

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Everything is too difficult these days. This is why I don't bother keeping an "official" handicap. I use a free HC system. I enter my scores and it calculates my HC. I don't give two shits how accurate or inaccurate it is. It gives me an approximate  HC. I'm sitting at a 9+ right now. Pretty much where I figured. I don't compete and I don't plan to. I just play golf and have a good time.

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I'm all for tracking handicap over all rounds- I believe the US has done it for years- much better idea.

I remember playing with a 4 h/cap guy from Oregon who hit the ball like a pro as his handicap was a true reflection of his ability.

I also play with low single fig guys here who hardly play in a medal and are lucky to break 85 EVERY time they play.

I'm not looking forward though, to playing a matchplay against a guy with a 54 h/cap.

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1 hour ago, perseveringgolfer said:

I'm all for tracking handicap over all rounds- I believe the US has done it for years- much better idea.

I remember playing with a 4 h/cap guy from Oregon who hit the ball like a pro as his handicap was a true reflection of his ability.

I also play with low single fig guys here who hardly play in a medal and are lucky to break 85 EVERY time they play.

I'm not looking forward though, to playing a matchplay against a guy with a 54 h/cap.

A couple of weeks back I played a match where I was giving 26 strokes or so, so my opponent was a 31 or 32 handicap.  There was a reason that my opponent got all those strokes, he really wasn't very good.  I think I won 4 and 3.  I imagine the same will hold true for those 54-handicappers.

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15 hours ago, silver & black said:

Everything is too difficult these days. This is why I don't bother keeping an "official" handicap. I use a free HC system. I enter my scores and it calculates my HC. I don't give two shits how accurate or inaccurate it is. It gives me an approximate  HC. I'm sitting at a 9+ right now. Pretty much where I figured. I don't compete and I don't plan to. I just play golf and have a good time.

Its really not difficult at all, enter your score and the system calculates.  I'd bet that the free systems will find a way to get the daily correction factor from a USGA compliant site and apply it to their own users' scores.  But I agree, if you're not going to compete, there's no reason to pay for an official handicap.

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44 minutes ago, DaveP043 said:

I'd bet that the free systems will find a way to get the daily correction factor from a USGA compliant site and apply it to their own users' scores.

My biggest concern with the playing conditions correction factor is that, while my home course is USGA rated, there is no handicapping service provided and I doubt more than eight scores a month are posted from it given the clientele? I'm almost positive I would never get any correction if I posted to an official service. 

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29 minutes ago, edingc said:

My biggest concern with the playing conditions correction factor is that, while my home course is USGA rated, there is no handicapping service provided and I doubt more than eight scores a month are posted from it given the clientele? I'm almost positive I would never get any correction if I posted to an official service. 

I've been away from public courses for a while now, but I remember seeing handicap posting available at most of the public courses back in the day.  Is that not an option these days?  Anyway, from everything I read, the Playing Condition Calculation is likely to be used relatively rarely, and even then will generally amount to no more than 2 strokes.

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8 minutes ago, DaveP043 said:

I've been away from public courses for a while now, but I remember seeing handicap posting available at most of the public courses back in the day.  Is that not an option these days?  Anyway, from everything I read, the Playing Condition Calculation is likely to be used relatively rarely, and even then will generally amount to no more than 2 strokes.

No, your perception is still correct. I think most of the nicer courses in my area offer a handicap service, either standalone or as part of a membership package. My particular course doesn't, being focused mostly on selling lots of Bloody Marys, it attracts a different client base than some of the other courses in the area. Doesn't make it less "nice," but the people who come out to play here aren't generally ones to be concerned with their handicap.

It just was something I thought of as I played on a few not so great days this year and wondered how that calculation would/would not have been made for my course.

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1 hour ago, DaveP043 said:

I've been away from public courses for a while now, but I remember seeing handicap posting available at most of the public courses back in the day.  Is that not an option these days?  Anyway, from everything I read, the Playing Condition Calculation is likely to be used relatively rarely, and even then will generally amount to no more than 2 strokes.

Yesterday would have been a perfect day to test PCC. It was blowing about 30 with higher gusts and on our Links style course with no protection from the wind it was a real challenge. On one par 3 where I normally use a 52* wedge I ended up using a 9i and barely made it onto the green.  

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I’ve been reading up on WHS a bit lately and I’m interested to see how it works out. Some of the changes make a lot of sense, but others are a bit odd. But overall I think simplifying the system is a good thing and I’m eager to switch over in January!

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