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2019 Official Forum Member Review-Cleveland Frontline Putter

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I checked the total weight of the Frontline Elevado and it is 597g.  For comparison, my Cameron 5.5M is 557g.  I will have to get the swingweights checked out, but this is one solid stick.
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I like the grip so far.  It is longer than my two most recent grips, so there is some wiggle room if you like a little more or less of the pistol shape in your upper hand. Here it is next to the stock grip on my Cameron.  It's not much longer than this, but the Golf Pride Tour Sensr is 1.5" shorter and feels pretty small compared to the Lamkin.
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The texture has a good grip to it.  Or does the grip have a good texture? 
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The whole top of the grip is flat.  I would rate this as a medium to medium-large grip.  The upper flat section doesn't seem as wide as the Ping PP60 grip, which feels very awkward to me.  Lamkin has this grip listed at 120g.  If you want to swap this out, I recommend to pay attention to the weight of the new grip.  An EVNROLL Gravity grip is also 120g.  Hmmmmm. 🤤
The face is completely new compared to my 2135 Satin Elevado.  The Satin Elevado has a face that I can use if I lose my meat tenderizer.  I had a few issues with that putter that I will get to during this testing, but one was the face.  There was so much material machined off of the sweet spot that this was a very soft feeling face.  I ended up switching to a harder feeling ball to firm up the feel.
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Nice grass stain on the face!  Who else has to clean their spouses clubs for them?  Did I just throw myself under the bus there?
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The Frontline has much less material taken out.  This results in a face that is much firmer.  For me, this is a big win.  YMMV.  I had some friends take some strokes with this, and some preferred the meat tenderizer feel.
I am trying to get putting sessions in each day and am keeping score.  There have been some interesting finds in that testing already.  I will have to do this in many small doses, as I have the back of a 90 year old man.  A few times already I have hit that wall where what I assume is my back just tells me to take a hike and I have no chance of putting a decent stroke on the ball.  I will have to cut myself off before this happens to keep the results honest.  I have also found that it is easier to go from the Cameron to the Frontline than vice versa.  Length/lie may be a better fit on the Frontline. 
I was able to take this out on the course for the second time this afternoon.  Weather could not have been better.  I also got to try out the Arccos sensors for the first time.  I ended up with 38 putts on the day en route to an 82.  I could not get the speed down at all.  We got the feeling that this course is pretty much shut down for the season, but are still allowing people to play.  Bathrooms were closed, ball washers were all down, and it looks like they were painting brown spots green to keep things looking...nice?  I have spent a good amount of time on the BirdieBall green (medium stimp: 10-11).  This course must have been playing at a 7.  And we rushed out to be able to get all 18 in before dark, so I didn't get any warmups beforehand.
My consolation is that Arccos rated me as a 7.2 putting handicap.  I wasn't too happy with my chipping, and Arccos confirmed that by giving me an F+ for a chipping handicap.  I had a few 5-6 footers that I managed to miss, but like last time, I hit them where I was aiming.  There were some phantom breaks or force fields around some of the cups and the ball would just take a hard left or right just before the cup.  With them playing so slow and me having such a hard time putting a 3W swing on the ball, getting the line read right (not a strong point of mine in the first place) was just too much to ask.  But I really appreciate Arccos giving me a green participation ribbon for putting while letting me know that if I can't get the ball within 30ft of the hole, those birdies will continue to escape me.

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While this weather holds up I am going to get out again somewhere that hasn't given up on 2019 already.  I really want to know if it was really that slow today, or if I am setting myself up for failure practicing on a green that is a fair amount faster than anything I am going to be playing on.


That meat tenderizing comment had me rolling! LOL

I struggled with the speed mightily in my second round as well. 6 three putts on the day and 40 putts overall. Not a good look.


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My Elevado with the Lamkin Sink Fit grip is topping out at a total weight of 596g.
My Evnroll ER6 with the Gravity grip is registering at 609g. 
Both are 370g heads. Both have 120g grips. Both are 35" in length. 
Yet if I didn't know any of this beforehand, I'd bet a lot of money I don't have that the Elevado was heavier than the ER6. The Cleveland just feels a lot heavier in your hand and I'm guessing it's related to all the weight being at the front of the putter vs the rear like in the Evnroll. 


Interesting theory on the feeling being heavier with the weight up front. Idk if there is any merit to it, but it passes the locker room test (in my book at least). Less balanced weight distribution would make it seem heavier. Think about a barbell. If you load 100lbs on it with the weight even on both sides, and then load 3/4 of the weight on one side, it will likely feel heavier (at least on the one side) with the unevenly distributed bar. The total weight is the same, but where it is placed is the difference.


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I've had three rounds with mine (the Cero SlantNeck).  My feels are a little different to a couple of the other guys, but maybe its based on what I was using before.  For 15 years or so I've played with a Ping G5i B60, with a GP Tour Classic grip (slightly oversized paddle-front).  The Cero actually feels much lighter in my hands, almost certainly due to the counterweight effect of the larger Lamkin grip.  The Cero also feels softer at impact than the old Ping.  An interesting thought, do older "plastic" inserts change characteristics over time?.  My distance control has been pretty decent, and I like the way it lines up.  Preliminary trials of purposely hitting putts off center are underway (teasing the real review).

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I've had three rounds with mine (the Cero SlantNeck).  My feels are a little different to a couple of the other guys, but maybe its based on what I was using before.  For 15 years or so I've played with a Ping G5i B60, with a GP Tour Classic grip (slightly oversized paddle-front).  The Cero actually feels much lighter in my hands, almost certainly due to the counterweight effect of the larger Lamkin grip.  The Cero also feels softer at impact than the old Ping.  An interesting thought, do older "plastic" inserts change characteristics over time?.  My distance control has been pretty decent, and I like the way it lines up.  Preliminary trials of purposely hitting putts off center are underway (teasing the real review).


Interesting thought on whether older inserts can change feel over time. That is something I’ve never even considered.

My distance control with the Elevado was great on the first round. The second round was just really strange. Perhaps it was playing a new course, but I just could not get it together. Anything over 20ft and it was a crap shoot. The one caveat was on number 18. It was a par three with a two tier green. Hole was cut on the bottom tier. My ball was on the top tier. I literally touched the putt and it almost rolled off the front of the green. That one would’ve had to have hit the flagstick to have had any chance of stopping.


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On 11/11/2019 at 1:53 PM, ChasingScratch said:

 


That meat tenderizing comment had me rolling! LOL

I struggled with the speed mightily in my second round as well. 6 three putts on the day and 40 putts overall. Not a good look.


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Had a couple of those awful 3 putt days recently and I don’t wish that on anyone.  Hope the putts start falling soon.

Great start guys. Enjoying this one so far, keep it up! 

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Had a couple of those awful 3 putt days recently and I don’t wish that on anyone.  Hope the putts start falling soon.
Great start guys. Enjoying this one so far, keep it up! 


Yeah I’m hoping to have more of the first round putting experiences with the Frontline Elevado going forward. I really do think the new course and the fast greens threw me for a loop. I got frustrated and that never helps.


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2135.  Besides my bedtime, what does this mean?  This is the radius of a golf ball in millimeters x 100.

Why should you care?  Cleveland feels that by having the alignment line on the putter at this height, you can have your eyes inside of your line and you can still tell that the ball is centered on the club face.

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In their example above, I can see how there could be some issues with someone who has the eyes well inside the line or even outside the line (gasp!), IF they have a putter with the alignment line at the base of the putter.  I don't have a putter arsenal the size of @GolfSpy MPR, but when comparing the height of the alignment line of the Elevado to my SC 5.5M and an old Rife 2-Bar, they can't be more than a couple of nanometers x 1000 different.  I can't find any of my trigonometry books to take a refresher, but I think the possible alignment error from the eyes even 12 inches inside of the putting line with a change of a couple mm in your putter line height is going to be significantly smaller than the size of your strike area of ten putts.

Is this really technology?  I would say it is a measurement (that's missing the decimal point).  Do I like it?  Yes, because I had some wires crossed at birth and am severely left eye dominant.  That line on top is great for me.  

Can this be a detriment?  I can't see how, unless you are playing TopFlite Magna's.  In which case you will need to find a putter with 22098 "technology".

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On a side note, I have determined that my horrible speed judgement in the last round was a result of my practice green.  I got the medium speed green and played on really slow greens.  Without a single warmup putt, I left a 15 ft birdie putt on the first hole 4 ft short.  I hit some more putts at home last night and my speed was right on again.  So not so much a putter issue than a putt-er issue.

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8 hours ago, romeopapazulu said:

  So not so much a putter issue than a putt-er issue.

I've said it about my own game too.  The only thing problem part in with this car is the nut behind the wheel.

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2135.  Besides my bedtime, what does this mean?  This is the radius of a golf ball in millimeters x 100.
Why should you care?  Cleveland feels that by having the alignment line on the putter at this height, you can have your eyes inside of your line and you can still tell that the ball is centered on the club face.

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In their example above, I can see how there could be some issues with someone who has the eyes well inside the line or even outside the line (gasp!), IF they have a putter with the alignment line at the base of the putter.  I don't have a putter arsenal the size of [mention=58668]GolfSpy MPR[/mention], but when comparing the height of the alignment line of the Elevado to my SC 5.5M and an old Rife 2-Bar, they can't be more than a couple of nanometers x 1000 different.  I can't find any of my trigonometry books to take a refresher, but I think the possible alignment error from the eyes even 12 inches inside of the putting line with a change of a couple mm in your putter line height is going to be significantly smaller than the size of your strike area of ten putts.
Is this really technology?  I would say it is a measurement (that's missing the decimal point).  Do I like it?  Yes, because I had some wires crossed at birth and am severely left eye dominant.  That line on top is great for me.  
Can this be a detriment?  I can't see how, unless you are playing TopFlite Magna's.  In which case you will need to find a putter with 22098 "technology".
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On a side note, I have determined that my horrible speed judgement in the last round was a result of my practice green.  I got the medium speed green and played on really slow greens.  Without a single warmup putt, I left a 15 ft birdie putt on the first hole 4 ft short.  I hit some more putts at home last night and my speed was right on again.  So not so much a putter issue than a putt-er issue.


I personally like the 2135 alignment line concept. I tend to have my eyes inside the ball and am right handed/left eye dominant as well. With my Ping Sigma 2 Tyne 4, the alignment line is on the bottom, which I like much less than the Cleveland.


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I've said it about my own game too.  The only thing problem part in with this car is the nut behind the wheel.

 

Give Lee Trevino a stick and a shovel and he’d still kick our butts!

 

 

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So you're stranded on an island with a beautiful golf course (not really "stranded" then) and the pro shop has only two putters for you to choose for your bag.

One feels like you can always line it up exactly where you want to hit it, but you have an occasional WTH stroke leading to a wobbly pulled or pushed putt.

The other putter can roll the ball perfectly down the line, but you are a little less precise on your alignment.

Do you prioritize alignment or stroke?  (These are the only two choices available.  No "I watch Forged in Fire so I will make my own putter that fits me perfectly and aims by itself".)

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So you're stranded on an island with a beautiful golf course (not really "stranded" then) and the pro shop has only two putters for you to choose for your bag. One feels like you can always line it up exactly where you want to hit it, but you have an occasional WTH stroke leading to a wobbly pulled or pushed putt. The other putter can roll the ball perfectly down the line, but you are a little less precise on your alignment.

Do you prioritize alignment or stroke?  (These are the only two choices available.  No "I watch Forged in Fire so I will make my own putter that fits me perfectly and aims by itself".)

 

 

  that is a good question. It seems to me that either is valuable to holeing putts. If you never hit a putt on the line it needs to be hit on, no matter how pure the role, you won’t make putts. Likewise, if you can’t roll a putt on your intended line with any consistency, you’ll likely not make many putts.

 

There are quite a few variables that have to be correct to hole a putt.

 

I’ll ask if the other reviewers have experienced this: sometimes, during practice at home on my putting matt, I’ve had some really strange feeling putts. When I intentionally try to miss the middle of the putter face, at times if feels like some really funky impact. Anyone else feel this?

 

 

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13 minutes ago, ChasingScratch said:

 emoji23.png that is a good question. It seems to me that either is valuable to holeing putts. If you never hit a putt on the line it needs to be hit on, no matter how pure the role, you won’t make putts. Likewise, if you can’t roll a putt on your intended line with any consistency, you’ll likely not make many putts.

 

There are quite a few variables that have to be correct to hole a putt.

 

I’ll ask if the other reviewers have experienced this: sometimes, during practice at home on my putting matt, I’ve had some really strange feeling putts. When I intentionally try to miss the middle of the putter face, at times if feels like some really funky impact. Anyone else feel this?

 

 

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I think it has to do with the low profile of this putter and thus, the sweet spot is shortened. You don't have as much forgiveness vertically along the face as you would with a higher profile putter. 

There's a lot I want to discuss in the review in regards to the putter design/feel/sound/weight placement so I'll be brief on these responses until then. 

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I think it has to do with the low profile of this putter and thus, the sweet spot is shortened. You don't have as much forgiveness vertically along the face as you would with a higher profile putter. 
There's a lot I want to discuss in the review in regards to the putter design/feel/sound/weight placement so I'll be brief on these responses until then. 


You’re right! I did notice how short in height the putter head actually is, especially compared to other mallets.


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I’m planning to do a good portion of my testing tomorrow. One thing I want to test is the claim that the Frontline putters help you make 15 foot putts like they are 10 footers.

Anything the other forum members want to see us test?


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So I spent a long time putting today.  I hit 30 10ft putts and 30 15ft putts (random and never the same putt twice) and kept track of the make/miss. 

Cleveland claims that these Frontline putters can basically turn 15ft putts into 10ft putts (see quote below from the MGS write up):

Link to the MGS article

15 footers into 10 footers.JPG

Here are my thoughts:

 

So something to be clear on, the green I tested on today was very suspect.  I thought that it would be perfect.  The course closed for quite a few months so that they could redo all the greens on the course (including the massive practice putting green).  They just opened a few weeks ago.  Man was I wrong!  The greens were very bumpy and grainy.  Some putts bounced offline, others took weird turns at the hole.  

I was rolling the ball well though, line over line.  What we have to remember is that much of putting comes down to picking the correct line and speed.  It doesn't matter if you have a robot.  If the line and speed are wrong, you won't make the putt.  Then, add green inconsistencies and you're basically looking at a crap shoot at times.  However, unless you are a member of a country club, a professional or collegiate golfer, or pay top dollar for high-end public courses, these are the realities we regular golfers face on the putting green.

I do want to do this test again on a better-rolling green, but so far I'm not seeing any support for this bold claim.

Edited by ChasingScratch
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13 hours ago, ChasingScratch said:

Cleveland claims that these Frontline putters can basically turn 15ft putts into 10ft putts (see quote below from the MGS write up):

I do want to do this test again on a better-rolling green, but so far I'm not seeing any support for this bold claim.

To me, when I read the stuff closely, they're saying that on a putt that is struck  certain distance off-center, the path resulting path is closer to the intended line than with certain rear-weighted mallet putters.  But we don't hit every putt off-center, most of us probably hit a majority of our putts pretty close to the center of the putter.  There's not much to gain on those center strokes.  That doesn't mean I won't be intentionally hitting some off-center putts to see how the Frontline behaves.  Its just that even if the claims is accurate when viewed in full detail, we may not all see the same level of improvement.

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To me, when I read the stuff closely, they're saying that on a putt that is struck  certain distance off-center, the path resulting path is closer to the intended line than with certain rear-weighted mallet putters.  But we don't hit every putt off-center, most of us probably hit a majority of our putts pretty close to the center of the putter.  There's not much to gain on those center strokes.  That doesn't mean I won't be intentionally hitting some off-center putts to see how the Frontline behaves.  Its just that even if the claims is accurate when viewed in full detail, we may not all see the same level of improvement.

 

I agree. I wasn’t 100% clear on what exactly they are claiming. Like I said in the video, are they saying in a controlled environment on a perfect putting surface and a dead straight putt that you can make 15 foot putts at the same rate as a 10 footer?

 

Looking at the PGA Tour stats, even they don’t make 15 footers at the same percentage as 10 footers. 5 extra feet is quite a bit of distance.

 

 

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22 minutes ago, ChasingScratch said:

I agree. I wasn’t 100% clear on what exactly they are claiming. Like I said in the video, are they saying in a controlled environment on a perfect putting surface and a dead straight putt that you can make 15 foot putts at the same rate as a 10 footer?

Looking at the PGA Tour stats, even they don’t make 15 footers at the same percentage as 10 footers. 5 extra feet is quite a bit of distance.

I think what they were saying is that for a putt that is a specific distance from a dead-center stroke (I think it was 1 inch off-center), the angular offline-ness would be 2/3 of that when using a specific rear-weighted mallet.  Then the advertising geniuses took that data and said it would make 15-footers be as make-able as 10-footers.

But you're right, relatively few 15-footers really get made.  As you said in an earlier post, you not only have to hit your line, but the speed has to be perfect, the putt has to be read properly for that speed, and you have to get a little lucky with the natural imperfections in the green.

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I think what they were saying is that for a putt that is a specific distance from a dead-center stroke (I think it was 1 inch off-center), the angular offline-ness would be 2/3 of that when using a specific rear-weighted mallet.  Then the advertising geniuses took that data and said it would make 15-footers be as make-able as 10-footers.

But you're right, relatively few 15-footers really get made.  As you said in an earlier post, you not only have to hit your line, but the speed has to be perfect, the putt has to be read properly for that speed, and you have to get a little lucky with the natural imperfections in the green.

 

Yeah, my main issue with putting is reading the line. I tend to over-read break and miss high side. No putter is going to ever improve my green reading abilities.

 

 

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