2019 Official Forum Member Review-Cleveland Frontline Putter

[romeopapazulu]

So you're stranded on an island with a beautiful golf course (not really "stranded" then) and the pro shop has only two putters for you to choose for your bag.

One feels like you can always line it up exactly where you want to hit it, but you have an occasional WTH stroke leading to a wobbly pulled or pushed putt.

The other putter can roll the ball perfectly down the line, but you are a little less precise on your alignment.

Do you prioritize alignment or stroke?  (These are the only two choices available.  No "I watch Forged in Fire so I will make my own putter that fits me perfectly and aims by itself".)

[DriverBreaker]

So you're stranded on an island with a beautiful golf course (not really "stranded" then) and the pro shop has only two putters for you to choose for your bag. One feels like you can always line it up exactly where you want to hit it, but you have an occasional WTH stroke leading to a wobbly pulled or pushed putt. The other putter can roll the ball perfectly down the line, but you are a little less precise on your alignment.

Do you prioritize alignment or stroke?  (These are the only two choices available.  No "I watch Forged in Fire so I will make my own putter that fits me perfectly and aims by itself".)

 

 

  that is a good question. It seems to me that either is valuable to holeing putts. If you never hit a putt on the line it needs to be hit on, no matter how pure the role, you won’t make putts. Likewise, if you can’t roll a putt on your intended line with any consistency, you’ll likely not make many putts.

 

There are quite a few variables that have to be correct to hole a putt.

 

I’ll ask if the other reviewers have experienced this: sometimes, during practice at home on my putting matt, I’ve had some really strange feeling putts. When I intentionally try to miss the middle of the putter face, at times if feels like some really funky impact. Anyone else feel this?

 

 

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[txgolfjunkie]

13 minutes ago, ChasingScratch said:

  that is a good question. It seems to me that either is valuable to holeing putts. If you never hit a putt on the line it needs to be hit on, no matter how pure the role, you won’t make putts. Likewise, if you can’t roll a putt on your intended line with any consistency, you’ll likely not make many putts.

 

There are quite a few variables that have to be correct to hole a putt.

 

I’ll ask if the other reviewers have experienced this: sometimes, during practice at home on my putting matt, I’ve had some really strange feeling putts. When I intentionally try to miss the middle of the putter face, at times if feels like some really funky impact. Anyone else feel this?

 

 

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I think it has to do with the low profile of this putter and thus, the sweet spot is shortened. You don't have as much forgiveness vertically along the face as you would with a higher profile putter. 

There's a lot I want to discuss in the review in regards to the putter design/feel/sound/weight placement so I'll be brief on these responses until then. 

[DriverBreaker]

I think it has to do with the low profile of this putter and thus, the sweet spot is shortened. You don't have as much forgiveness vertically along the face as you would with a higher profile putter. 
There's a lot I want to discuss in the review in regards to the putter design/feel/sound/weight placement so I'll be brief on these responses until then. 

You’re right! I did notice how short in height the putter head actually is, especially compared to other mallets.


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[DriverBreaker]

I’m planning to do a good portion of my testing tomorrow. One thing I want to test is the claim that the Frontline putters help you make 15 foot putts like they are 10 footers.

Anything the other forum members want to see us test?


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[DriverBreaker]

So I spent a long time putting today.  I hit 30 10ft putts and 30 15ft putts (random and never the same putt twice) and kept track of the make/miss. 

Cleveland claims that these Frontline putters can basically turn 15ft putts into 10ft putts (see quote below from the MGS write up):

Link to the MGS article

Here are my thoughts:

 

So something to be clear on, the green I tested on today was very suspect.  I thought that it would be perfect.  The course closed for quite a few months so that they could redo all the greens on the course (including the massive practice putting green).  They just opened a few weeks ago.  Man was I wrong!  The greens were very bumpy and grainy.  Some putts bounced offline, others took weird turns at the hole.  

I was rolling the ball well though, line over line.  What we have to remember is that much of putting comes down to picking the correct line and speed.  It doesn't matter if you have a robot.  If the line and speed are wrong, you won't make the putt.  Then, add green inconsistencies and you're basically looking at a crap shoot at times.  However, unless you are a member of a country club, a professional or collegiate golfer, or pay top dollar for high-end public courses, these are the realities we regular golfers face on the putting green.

I do want to do this test again on a better-rolling green, but so far I'm not seeing any support for this bold claim.

Edited November 17, 2019 by ChasingScratch

[DaveP043]

13 hours ago, ChasingScratch said:

Cleveland claims that these Frontline putters can basically turn 15ft putts into 10ft putts (see quote below from the MGS write up):

I do want to do this test again on a better-rolling green, but so far I'm not seeing any support for this bold claim.

To me, when I read the stuff closely, they're saying that on a putt that is struck  certain distance off-center, the path resulting path is closer to the intended line than with certain rear-weighted mallet putters.  But we don't hit every putt off-center, most of us probably hit a majority of our putts pretty close to the center of the putter.  There's not much to gain on those center strokes.  That doesn't mean I won't be intentionally hitting some off-center putts to see how the Frontline behaves.  Its just that even if the claims is accurate when viewed in full detail, we may not all see the same level of improvement.

[DriverBreaker]

To me, when I read the stuff closely, they're saying that on a putt that is struck  certain distance off-center, the path resulting path is closer to the intended line than with certain rear-weighted mallet putters.  But we don't hit every putt off-center, most of us probably hit a majority of our putts pretty close to the center of the putter.  There's not much to gain on those center strokes.  That doesn't mean I won't be intentionally hitting some off-center putts to see how the Frontline behaves.  Its just that even if the claims is accurate when viewed in full detail, we may not all see the same level of improvement.

 

I agree. I wasn’t 100% clear on what exactly they are claiming. Like I said in the video, are they saying in a controlled environment on a perfect putting surface and a dead straight putt that you can make 15 foot putts at the same rate as a 10 footer?

 

Looking at the PGA Tour stats, even they don’t make 15 footers at the same percentage as 10 footers. 5 extra feet is quite a bit of distance.

 

 

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[DaveP043]

22 minutes ago, ChasingScratch said:

I agree. I wasn’t 100% clear on what exactly they are claiming. Like I said in the video, are they saying in a controlled environment on a perfect putting surface and a dead straight putt that you can make 15 foot putts at the same rate as a 10 footer?

Looking at the PGA Tour stats, even they don’t make 15 footers at the same percentage as 10 footers. 5 extra feet is quite a bit of distance.

I think what they were saying is that for a putt that is a specific distance from a dead-center stroke (I think it was 1 inch off-center), the angular offline-ness would be 2/3 of that when using a specific rear-weighted mallet.  Then the advertising geniuses took that data and said it would make 15-footers be as make-able as 10-footers.

But you're right, relatively few 15-footers really get made.  As you said in an earlier post, you not only have to hit your line, but the speed has to be perfect, the putt has to be read properly for that speed, and you have to get a little lucky with the natural imperfections in the green.

[DriverBreaker]

I think what they were saying is that for a putt that is a specific distance from a dead-center stroke (I think it was 1 inch off-center), the angular offline-ness would be 2/3 of that when using a specific rear-weighted mallet.  Then the advertising geniuses took that data and said it would make 15-footers be as make-able as 10-footers.

But you're right, relatively few 15-footers really get made.  As you said in an earlier post, you not only have to hit your line, but the speed has to be perfect, the putt has to be read properly for that speed, and you have to get a little lucky with the natural imperfections in the green.

 

Yeah, my main issue with putting is reading the line. I tend to over-read break and miss high side. No putter is going to ever improve my green reading abilities.

 

 

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[DriverBreaker]

So I went to a different course today to redo my test from Sunday on the terrible green.

 

 

The good news, the green was very good. The bad news....... NO CUPS!!!! Lol

 

Regardless, I was still able to get some anecdotal data. First, I am not as bad of a putter from 10ft and 15ft as the first test would have me to believe. I only made 20% of my 10ft putts and 6.7% of my 15 foot putts the other day.

 

Today, I was putting to a tee in the ground from 10 and 15ft. I hit the tee or passed it within an inch way more often than the other day (even from 15ft). I wasn’t going to actually keep track of those stats because they couldn’t fall in a cup, lip out, etc.

 

A consistent thing is still this, 10 and 15ft are long putts. Even on good greens, things can happen. Here is a visual of 15ft:

 

 

Furthermore, the quality of the putting surface is huge to making putts. Your putt must have a fair chance to fall. If you putt it on the right line and speed, but your ball is playing Plinko, what is the point?

 

It was also difficult to focus tonight as I had my two kids with me (5 and 4yrs old). The “Daddy daddy watch me!” phase is always in full-effect in my house!

 

 

So far, I’m still just not convinced that there is anything significant to this technology. Still more testing to do though.

 

 

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[DaveP043]

Its been cold here, very little  golf for me, but I'll be headed to Pinehurst for 9 days, leaving Friday.  I should have plenty of time to do some serious evaluation, on what are normally very true Champion Bermuda greens.  I can't wait!

[DriverBreaker]

Its been cold here, very little  golf for me, but I'll be headed to Pinehurst for 9 days, leaving Friday.  I should have plenty of time to do some serious evaluation, on what are normally very true Champion Bermuda greens.  I can't wait!

That’s awesome!! Have fun and I’m jealous of those championship greens. Roll them true!


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[cksurfdude]

On 11/18/2019 at 6:21 PM, ChasingScratch said:

The “Daddy daddy watch me!” phase is always in full-effect

[[..deep,low voice..]] "I am BATman!"

Cute kids! And thx for the honest info on this.

[DriverBreaker]

I’ve got an idea for a photo of the putter with a LEGO Batman. This putter is definitely Batman approved from a color scheme stance.


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[DriverBreaker]

Been putting a lot indoors lately. We just had rain the past three days in a row so not much else I can do really.

 

I’ve been playing around with hitting off the toe and heel of the Elevado to see how it affects impact feel and accuracy. On short putts inside 6ft, I’m not seeing much of a negative impact on dispersion. I can still hit a dime I have on my matt whether I hit the ball out of the middle or either end. So what? I tried with my Ping Sigma 2 Tyne 4 as well. Same results. And who hits their putter so far out near the toe or heel anyway?

 

I have had some funky feeling putts so far with the Elevado. Sometimes something just doesn’t feel quite right. This isn’t to say that the ball goes crazy offline or anything, but I’ve had some that almost feel like the putter wants to twist in your hands at impact. Maybe I’m crazy.....

 

 

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[romeopapazulu]

5 hours ago, ChasingScratch said:

Been putting a lot indoors lately. We just had rain the past three days in a row so not much else I can do really.

 

I’ve been playing around with hitting off the toe and heel of the Elevado to see how it affects impact feel and accuracy. On short putts inside 6ft, I’m not seeing much of a negative impact on dispersion. I can still hit a dime I have on my matt whether I hit the ball out of the middle or either end. So what? I tried with my Ping Sigma 2 Tyne 4 as well. Same results. And who hits their putter so far out near the toe or heel anyway?

 

I have had some funky feeling putts so far with the Elevado. Sometimes something just doesn’t feel quite right. This isn’t to say that the ball goes crazy offline or anything, but I’ve had some that almost feel like the putter wants to twist in your hands at impact. Maybe I’m crazy.....

 

 

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I have also been trying to do some heel center toe testing. I need to get some impact tape soon can do it and see impact without purposefully hitting it on the toe or heel. I feel like it does a good job minimizing twist, but when I know I am hitting o e one the toe, I feel that it's hard to not influence the stroke.  

I have also hit some weird feeling putts. But these aren't twisting. I think I am swinging with the putter a bit off the ground and hitting it below the insert. And that has a weird clank of a feel like hitting a softball off the handle of a bat. Distance isn't terribly punished though. 

I haven't done that too much, but when I think about the shallow face of this putter and lift it to hit the center off the face (center height) I have caught it thin and gotten that feeling. Better to not think i suppose. 

[DriverBreaker]

I have also been trying to do some heel center toe testing. I need to get some impact tape soon can do it and see impact without purposefully hitting it on the toe or heel. I feel like it does a good job minimizing twist, but when I know I am hitting o e one the toe, I feel that it's hard to not influence the stroke.  
I have also hit some weird feeling putts. But these aren't twisting. I think I am swinging with the putter a bit off the ground and hitting it below the insert. And that has a weird clank of a feel like hitting a softball off the handle of a bat. Distance isn't terribly punished though. 
I haven't done that too much, but when I think about the shallow face of this putter and lift it to hit the center off the face (center height) I have caught it thin and gotten that feeling. Better to not think i suppose. 

You described the feel perfectly. Definitely a clank type feel.


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[romeopapazulu]

In all of my testing so far, neither my current gamer or the Frontline have really jumped far ahead.  The practice green testing tends to bounce back and forth between drills and one of them usually ends up ahead by the end of a session, but it doesn't amount to more than a stroke per round.

Last night, though, was an absolute domination.  I will have to see if this was a blip that will return back to the norm.  But if that was a session trying putters in the golf shop, there would have been no doubt as to who I would be taking home. 

[txgolfjunkie]

This will be discussed more in-depth in my review, but have ya'll tested the Frontline vs your gamer on short putts (4'-6') with some substantial break that requires both the right line and speed? Flat putts are great to hone your stroke, but once I started hitting putts with my line a good cup, cup and a half right/left of the hole, that's where I noticed some separation in performance between the Elevado and ER6. 

[DriverBreaker]

This will be discussed more in-depth in my review, but have ya'll tested the Frontline vs your gamer on short putts (4'-6') with some substantial break that requires both the right line and speed? Flat putts are great to hone your stroke, but once I started hitting putts with my line a good cup, cup and a half right/left of the hole, that's where I noticed some separation in performance between the Elevado and ER6. 

I have not specifically tested side by side on short breaking putts. You’ve intrigued me though and I’ll give it a shot.


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[romeopapazulu]

I'm now buried in 18 inches of snow. So unless I can maneuver a trip south for a weekend to get a round in, I will be looking at birdieball practice from now on. 

In looking at my practice green work, a slight advantage went to the SC on the long range putting. But that was quickly given away by more solid short range (dare I even admit mid-range?) second putts. 

I think the main advantage of the SC on the long putts is that they would occasionally go in. I didn't sink any super long ones with the Frontline. At that range it is hard to say if it is pure luck or if I can really judge line and speed well enough with the SC to drain one now and then (not probable).

[DriverBreaker]

The last round I had with the Elevado was fine. 76 with 4 birdies, but only one putt made over 9ft (a 14ft birdie on #18 thank you very much lol). I had lots of putts that I played just outside the left or right edge that missed there, I just over read the break.

Is it bad that I don’t want to game the Elevado next time I play? Probably not a good sign huh? It’s not that it’s a bad putter. It’s certainly not. But I’m finding how much I really like the look and feel of my gamer.


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[DriverBreaker]

Playing today. Let’s see how she rolls!


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[romeopapazulu]

On 12/2/2019 at 9:00 PM, ChasingScratch said:

The last round I had with the Elevado was fine. 76 with 4 birdies, but only one putt made over 9ft (a 14ft birdie on #18 thank you very much lol). I had lots of putts that I played just outside the left or right edge that missed there, I just over read the break.

Is it bad that I don’t want to game the Elevado next time I play? Probably not a good sign huh? It’s not that it’s a bad putter. It’s certainly not. But I’m finding how much I really like the look and feel of my gamer.


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I am finding the opposite.  I think the confidence is higher with the Elevado.  I am not seeing numbers that indicate I will have 5 less putts per round, but when I stand over a putt, I am feeling like the putting stroke is a variable that is out of the equation and the result now only depends on my sub-par green reading (maybe that should read "plus-par").

Now I just need to have someone tell me how to quantify the putting mind games...

[DaveP043]

On 12/2/2019 at 11:00 PM, ChasingScratch said:

The last round I had with the Elevado was fine. 76 with 4 birdies, but only one putt made over 9ft (a 14ft birdie on #18 thank you very much lol). I had lots of putts that I played just outside the left or right edge that missed there, I just over read the break.

Is it bad that I don’t want to game the Elevado next time I play? Probably not a good sign huh? It’s not that it’s a bad putter. It’s certainly not. But I’m finding how much I really like the look and feel of my gamer.

We're not tasked with putting this putter in our bags forever, we're evaluating it.  If its not the right one for you, say it.  But after reading that you didn't read putts correctly, it seems unreasonable to use that as a reason not to continue with the Frontline.

I just got in 7 rounds in the Pinehurst area, each day on different greens, a couple of different grass varieties, and slightly varying speeds.  Greens in general were pretty quick to really quick, which presented a bit of adjustment, and most had significant to severe slopes.  I had better days putting, and poorer days, but overall was pretty satisfied.  I'll be distilling down my impressions, editing videos, and writing my review over the next week.

[DriverBreaker]

We're not tasked with putting this putter in our bags forever, we're evaluating it.  If its not the right one for you, say it. 

 

Of course. I’m not saying anything like that. I’m simply saying it’s probably not a good thing for the overall evaluation if I don’t want to put it in play for the round.

 

Misreads are never the putter’s fault, but the user’s. I’ve never said the putter is a bad putter, or that it made me misread a putt. It’s just (in my evaluation) not the most amazing ground breaking thing ever.

 

 

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[DriverBreaker]

Played 27 holes today. 33 putts on the first 18 (+2 74) and 16 putts on the second nine holes (even par).

Again, there is nothing wrong with this putter whatsoever. If you get the line and speed correct, you’ll make putts. I just prefer my Ping better with the feel and grip.

Full write up coming soon.


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[txgolfjunkie]

BUMP! 

My official review is up for those interested. 

Here you go: 

Now that the review is up and running, I'll be more open about my experience with the Cleveland Frontline Elevado. Fire away with any questions you might have. 

 

[DriverBreaker]

I had my final round of golf testing the Frontline Elevado yesterday. Will be posting my final review sometime next week!


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