Crowd Sourced Club Fitting - Can we fix me?

[walkerdb7]

2 hours ago, cnosil said:

Not a weird outlier.  You have been fit to your swing to optimize launch conditions.  You would need to change your swing to get better results since you deloft and hit down with driver.    We can all play what we feel like playing but you may not hit the ball well.   If you got a 9* driver,  you would probably hit the ball shorter and get no height.

The high/low launch and high/low spin designations on shafts is a manufacturer label, is not a standard, and may not be  what you actually see when you hit the ball.   Shafts have a profile and that profile influences how you swing.   A low launch shaft from Manufacturer X may actually launch the ball higher than Manufacturer Y's high launch shaft.     Additionally a "high" launch shaft may only add a degree of two of launch compared to the "low" launch shaft.    

Fitters have their own way of achieving "ideal" conditions and as a result you will most likely see different results from different fitters.  

Good point and not what I meant about playing what I like with the loft context, haha. I meant if I like the feel of the TM vs the Ping or the LA shaft vs the HZRDUS shaft, I’m gonna see nominal differences between the club builds?

Re fitting: The last part about different paths to the same finish line is sort of where I get frustrated. That’s why I’m here to learn and understand. When one person says flat and the other says upright, so of feels like non of it matters much?

Edited March 17 by walkerdb7

[cnosil]

23 minutes ago, walkerdb7 said:

Good point and not what I meant about playing what I like with the loft context, haha. I meant if I like the feel of the TM vs the Ping or the LA shaft vs the HZRDUS shaft, I’m gonna see nominal differences between the club builds?

Re fitting: The last part about different paths to the same finish line is sort of where I get frustrated. That’s why I’m here to learn and understand. When one person says flat and the other says upright, so of feels like non of it matters much?

You have to go deeper than Brand.  You can pick a brand you prefer but you may do better with a low spin version of the head or a draw biases or a MAX version or some other variation.   For example I don't do well with low spin models.   Shafts have different profile and you can generally switch between shafts with similar profiles across brands.   But you may get poor  results if you pick shafts with significantly different profiles.   Shaft weight is also another important consideration.   

No reason to get frustrated;  you just need to know that fitters do different things to get to the goal.   The other thing is there aren't standards in lie angle;  standard for one OEM could be 2 degrees flatter than another so in one you need to go flat and the other you need to go upright. Shaft length; which again isn't standard,  also has some influence.   Based on how the shat profile it will have different deflection at impact which will impact lie angle.   Clubhead weight impacts deflection which as we just mentioned impacts lie angle.    Basically everything in a club is variable.  

[walkerdb7]

On 3/15/2024 at 11:55 AM, RickyBobby_PR said:

The data is incomplete and without a swing also doesn’t allow me to see what’s actually going on.

Seeing ball flight helps too. Dont know what your face to path looks like. What your fath is, what your face angle is.

theres still a wide variance in some of the data which is probably more swing issue than club issue.

all golfers including the pros have some sort of compensation in their swing, the better golfers are able to control those and make them more repeatable from swing to swing.

all of us regular golfers will have a variance in our compensations and things like rest, energy levels and so on can have an effect on how we are moving and this how well we can repeat our compensations for where the club is. It’s why you will see people say they played better once they got warmed up, or why some will have worse back 9s because they got more tired and couldn’t repeat their compensations.

The way we swing doesn’t change from swing to swing. Those who whip the club inside get flat will typically get steep and over the top. They will have their normal ball flight for that shot then there will be their miss or big miss. The misses and big miss come from not being able to repeat the things they do to hit their normal shot. 
 

Many thing it’s their swing itself changes but it’s their ability to repeat whatever it is they do to hit their normal shot. Some also look at ball flight and start to change things to fix it from shot to shot and do it because Rey don’t understand what happened. Someone who usually has an open face or a path the causes a slice lines up slightly different or they rotate the face closed and now hit a hook will thing it’s the swing and to avoid that shot so they adjust something then end up with a totally different ball flight 

So in that context you feel there is a "best setup" for my dumpster fire of a swing?

[walkerdb7]

Appreciate all the responses, really trying to learn here and all this info has been very helpful 

Scotty is only launching at 9? Why isn’t he optimized the higher launch numbers referenced for Ping?

 

 

[cnosil]

2 minutes ago, walkerdb7 said:

 

Scotty is only launching at 9? Why isn’t he optimized the higher launch numbers referenced for Ping?

 

What is his AoA? What is he trying to accomplish with his driver? 

[RickyBobby_PR]

22 hours ago, walkerdb7 said:

So in that context you feel there is a "best setup" for my dumpster fire of a swing?

Really can’t say there’s a best setup equipment wise. Feel plays a big role in how one reacts to a setup. I could tell you tsr2 with ventus black tr but it would be a guess and could be an expensive blind buy.

 

[RickyBobby_PR]

3 hours ago, walkerdb7 said:

Appreciate all the responses, really trying to learn here and all this info has been very helpful 

Scotty is only launching at 9? Why isn’t he optimized the higher launch numbers referenced for Ping?

 

 

Scotty is optimized for his swing and what he is trying to do on the course.

as you see in the chart he has different launch for how he wants to hit the ball.

Pros will give up distance for control of the ball. It’s why many are around neutral to slightly down with aoa. Rory is the outlier at +5° aoa, but you see how it can negatively affect his on course play. +2-3° is around all anyone needs.

 

[walkerdb7]

3 hours ago, cnosil said:

What is his AoA? What is he trying to accomplish with his driver? 

And this is why I’m here. Thank you again!

“the Information Age” is too complicated… Try to learn stuff, but information overload on incomplete information 

[walkerdb7]

30 minutes ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

Scotty is optimized for his swing and what he is trying to do on the course.

as you see in the chart he has different launch for how he wants to hit the ball.

Pros will give up distance for control of the ball. It’s why many are around neutral to slightly down with aoa. Rory is the outlier at +5° aoa, but you see how it can negatively affect his on course play. +2-3° is around all anyone needs.

 

Confused again. 
 

my biggest issue is spraying the ball. I would give up 5 or 10 yards to hit more fairways. You’re saying that’s what pros are doing on purpose? If I’m doing it naturally, isn’t that good? 

[RickyBobby_PR]

3 minutes ago, walkerdb7 said:

Confused again. 
 

my biggest issue is spraying the ball. I would give up 5 or 10 yards to hit more fairways. You’re saying that’s what pros are doing on purpose? If I’m doing it naturally, isn’t that good? 

Pros aren’t spraying the ball like us amatuers. They don’t have a consistent two way miss like some amateurs do. They do have a wide dispersion pattern. It’s in the 65-70 yard range. 
 

Pros know the more speed the more trouble for control. Bryson’s biggest complaint is that heads can’t keep up with his top end on course speed. Finau can reach 200mph ball speed but plays at 180ish.

the more aoa one has the more inside a path can get and when you start reaching the +5° it can cause issues. Rory has been plagued in his career with getting stuck, having a +5° is part of that reason.

Pros are hitting between -1 to +1-2° aoa, and most favor a fade with driver because this helps them control the flight and their miss

[walkerdb7]

48 minutes ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

Pros aren’t spraying the ball like us amatuers. They don’t have a consistent two way miss like some amateurs do. They do have a wide dispersion pattern. It’s in the 65-70 yard range. 
 

Pros know the more speed the more trouble for control. Bryson’s biggest complaint is that heads can’t keep up with his top end on course speed. Finau can reach 200mph ball speed but plays at 180ish.

the more aoa one has the more inside a path can get and when you start reaching the +5° it can cause issues. Rory has been plagued in his career with getting stuck, having a +5° is part of that reason.

Pros are hitting between -1 to +1-2° aoa, and most favor a fade with driver because this helps them control the flight and their miss

So in my case the -2 aoa (or whatever) it is is problematic because I am delivering the club differently every time? 

I know these are lots of questions, but I really do appreciate it. I previously would see a post like the Scotty numbers and think “if I speed train, I will have PGA numbers” and used those as a tool to grade myself when I practice on the launch monitor 

[RickyBobby_PR]

11 minutes ago, walkerdb7 said:

So in my case the -2 aoa (or whatever) it is is problematic because I am delivering the club differently every time? 

I know these are lots of questions, but I really do appreciate it. I previously would see a post like the Scotty numbers and think “if I speed train, I will have PGA numbers” and used those as a tool to grade myself when I practice on the launch monitor 

The -2° aoa is a problem if there is also a path and face to path issue and if it leads to lower on the face contact. Dynamic loft is another thing to look at. Delofting the driver isn’t the best thing for amateurs.

a number like aoa or spin or launch by itself doesn’t mean much. 
 

0 to +2-3° aoa is what more than enough. Path 1-3° either in to out or out to in is optimal. It just needs to be consistent. Most amateurs have a path that’s more 4+ either way and not consistent from one direction.

 

 

Edited March 18 by RickyBobby_PR

[cnosil]

1 hour ago, walkerdb7 said:

 

“the Information Age” is too complicated… Try to learn stuff, but information overload on incomplete information 

here is a place to start:  https://trackmanuniversity.com/

 

Understanding fitting and launch monitor data is not easy and takes a while to learn.  It is basically a profession so significant amounts of training is necessary.

[walkerdb7]

1 hour ago, cnosil said:

here is a place to start:  https://trackmanuniversity.com/

 

Understanding fitting and launch monitor data is not easy and takes a while to learn.  It is basically a profession so significant amounts of training is necessary.

Completely get that and not trying to second guess anyone who gets paid to do this, haha

I just feel like I should be a more responsible consumer or understand better what and why is being suggested for piece of mind.

[cnosil]

7 minutes ago, walkerdb7 said:

I just feel like I should be a more responsible consumer or understand better what and why is being suggested for piece of mind.

 

Don't blame you for that at all.   The trackman university should give you lots of good information.  

 

[walkerdb7]

and so it begins… again…

 

 

[walkerdb7]

On 3/18/2024 at 2:07 PM, RickyBobby_PR said:

Really can’t say there’s a best setup equipment wise. Feel plays a big role in how one reacts to a setup. I could tell you tsr2 with ventus black tr but it would be a guess and could be an expensive blind buy.

 

That's funny... The one time I rented clubs in the last decade, I had that driver and liked. I also had the T100 irons in that set and that prompted the T100S purchase, haha

[RickyBobby_PR]

15 minutes ago, walkerdb7 said:

and so it begins… again…

 

 

Post the video. It looks like your concept of how to turn is way off

[walkerdb7]

33 minutes ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

Post the video. It looks like your concept of how to turn is way off

Left images are working on something exaggerated to try and get a feel for hitting up on the ball with the driver 

what do you mean the concept of how to turn looks off?

[RickyBobby_PR]

1 hour ago, walkerdb7 said:

Left images are working on something exaggerated to try and get a feel for hitting up on the ball with the driver 

what do you mean the concept of how to turn looks off?

The concept of hitting up on the ball is a bad one and will lead to more issues than fixing any.

A proper sequenced swing with good pressure shift and proper wrist movements will produce the proper aoa which will be somewhere between and 0-3°. Trying to hit up tends to lead to too much side bend and getting too far from the inside.

In the first image both the one on the left and right have an improper turn.  Not sure what you were doing on the left but just like the right you didn’t turn your hips. Your left knee went forward and you had some extension of the trial leg. Your left hip came out instead of your right hip going back. This is a false turn

[walkerdb7]

I’m not going at this alone, this was with a coach. I also think hitting up for me means hitting less down? Haha 
 

It was also lesson one of trying to learn how to turn more properly vs like no turn in the right swing. I appreciate the feedback though, I want to give this is a bit of time to settle before I change more, haha

I previously tried virtual lessons with Jonathan Yarwood (T100). Amazing info, but I don't know enough about the correct golf swing to fix things with video edits. I need someone in the room talking through the changes with me or practice drills.

Edited March 20 by walkerdb7