Ben Crane Penalized 8 shots

[GolfJunkie302]

I'd better go remove my GameGolf tags before anyone DQ's me from the game of golf...

 

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[ole gray]

USGA can take those stickers and stick em up their arse....     Rules are put in place for a reason however some of their rules/decisions (last couple of years) IMO  have been ridiculous . 

[DaveP043]

Well, yes. The descision was correct, but I think what everyone is saying is, the rules can be ridiculous. it's absolutely stupid to give a guy and 8 stroke penalty because of a tiny sticker on his club. At that point, you have to ask, "what about the 4 different kinds of stickers you find on shafts (barcodes, shaft brand stickers, etc.)? After all, they do add weight to the club... "

Again, the difference is that you're specifically allowed to have stuff anywhere that's not on the face of the club.  Its not a complicated rule.  Its intended to make it illegal to alter the face of the club.  A sticker on the shaft, no problem.  Lead tape on the sole, no problem.  ANYTHING on the face, big problem.

 

For those who dislike this rule, or the specific decision, how would you re-write the rule to make it more "fair" while still prohibiting a player from changing the characteristics of the face of the club?  Personally, I'd prefer that they simplify the rule, prohibit putting any foreign substance on the clubface, and remove the explanation "for the purpose of influencing the movement of the ball."  If you dislike the rule,, would you just eliminate it?  Allow a player to use vaseline to decrease spin?  Use rosin to increase spin?  If you don't like those, how do you define what is and isn't allowed?

[GolfJunkie302]

Again, the difference is that you're specifically allowed to have stuff anywhere that's not on the face of the club. Its not a complicated rule. Its intended to make it illegal to alter the face of the club. A sticker on the shaft, no problem. Lead tape on the sole, no problem. ANYTHING on the face, big problem.

 

For those who dislike this rule, or the specific decision, how would you re-write the rule to make it more "fair" while still prohibiting a player from changing the characteristics of the face of the club? Personally, I'd prefer that they simplify the rule, prohibit putting any foreign substance on the clubface, and remove the explanation "for the purpose of influencing the movement of the ball." If you dislike the rule,, would you just eliminate it? Allow a player to use vaseline to decrease spin? Use rosin to increase spin? If you don't like those, how do you define what is and isn't allowed?

I guess I didn't know that it was only illegal if it was on the clubface. Just goes to show, I need to keep my mouth shut if I don't know exactly what I'm talking about 😉

 

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[Rickp]

I guess I didn't know that it was only illegal if it was on the clubface. Just goes to show, I need to keep my mouth shut if I don't know exactly what I'm talking about

 

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Agreed

 

 

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[DaveP043]

I guess I didn't know that it was only illegal if it was on the clubface. Just goes to show, I need to keep my mouth shut if I don't know exactly what I'm talking about

I wouldn't agree with the last.  I know I learn better from my own mistakes than I do from just reading information.  I make my share of foolish statements (not that you were foolish), and those lessons stay with me a long time.

[kardboard.kid]

Some of what was issues we had were call in or email after the fact. Granted Ben was remiss in not removing the tape, but he called it out. If course admitting the next day he knew they were there too away from what appears an honest mistake. Should there be some discretion allowed for honesty?

 

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[MaxEntropy]

Since I have never hit with a launch monitor, what exactly is the point of the stickers? I browsed the trackman manual online and saw there are stickers to put on balls when indoors to more accurately capture spin rate, but saw no reference to stickers on clubs.

 

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[ole gray]

I picked me up some stickers from my buddy at Dick's and will put them in play at our Tuesday blitz. I'm hitting my driver pretty darn good right now so I'm little uneasy about trying the stickers.  I also bought a small jar of KY Jelly as I've never used it either.  My wife asked me what ya gonna do with that Ky Jelly and I said you'll be surprised.   She got a big grin on her face. Anyways I greased all my  clubs down real good to include my driver, hybrids, irons and putter.  The only thing I left out was my sand wedge as I figured the sand might stick to the face.  I'm going to stick it to them boys this going Tuesday in more ways than one.

[Rickp]

I picked me up some stickers from my buddy at Dick's and will put them in play at our Tuesday blitz. I'm hitting my driver pretty darn good right now so I'm little uneasy about trying the stickers. I also bought a small jar of KY Jelly as I've never used it either. My wife asked me what ya gonna do with that Ky Jelly and I said you'll be surprised. She got a big grin on her face. Anyways I greased all my clubs down real good to include my driver, hybrids, irons and putter. The only thing I left out was my sand wedge as I figured the sand might stick to the face. I'm going to stick it to them boys this going Tuesday in more ways than one.

That's a sticky situation!

 

 

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[ole gray]

That's a sticky situation!

 

 

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lol yup all my stuff is sticky now.  I'm skeptical about how this is going to work because a few years ago I saw an old boy use the KY Jelly.  Him and this other fellow use to have an extra bet every weekend.  Well it turns out the one using the lube on his clubs kept losing his bets.  The fellow playing against him saw him applying it and said hell, I'm gonna buy you a family size jar of that shat for Christmas. I'm really curious how it could make a difference and I will let the guys I play with know up front what's going on..  They don't care one way or the other and they might be buying me a econo jar if it back fires.

[DaveP043]

Since I have never hit with a launch monitor, what exactly is the point of the stickers? I browsed the trackman manual online and saw there are stickers to put on balls when indoors to more accurately capture spin rate, but saw no reference to stickers on clubs.

 

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I wasn't sure myself, so I found this post at another golf website:

http://www.golfwrx.com/427742/the-hottest-launch-monitors-of-2017/

This is about the Foresight GCQuad:

"The GCQuad uses “quadrascopic” cameras to measure the golf club and golf ball from four different angles, enhancing the precision of one of golf's most trusted launch monitors (Foresight says the GCQuad's data ranges are twice as tight). The unit's biggest advantage over its competition is its ability to measure the movement of the club face before and into impact with uncanny accuracy. For those measurements, users will need to add special dot-like stickers to their club faces, which aid the system in measuring all-important variables such as attack angle, dynamic lie at impact, dynamic loft, face angle, face-to-path, swing path and impact point. It's the GCQuad's ability to measure impact point (exactly where a golfer contacts the ball on the club face) that could be its most important distinction, however, both in instruction and fitting capacities."

[MaxEntropy]

I wasn't sure myself, so I found this post at another golf website:

http://www.golfwrx.com/427742/the-hottest-launch-monitors-of-2017/

This is about the Foresight GCQuad:

"The GCQuad uses “quadrascopic” cameras to measure the golf club and golf ball from four different angles, enhancing the precision of one of golf's most trusted launch monitors (Foresight says the GCQuad's data ranges are twice as tight). The unit's biggest advantage over its competition is its ability to measure the movement of the club face before and into impact with uncanny accuracy. For those measurements, users will need to add special dot-like stickers to their club faces, which aid the system in measuring all-important variables such as attack angle, dynamic lie at impact, dynamic loft, face angle, face-to-path, swing path and impact point. It's the GCQuad's ability to measure impact point (exactly where a golfer contacts the ball on the club face) that could be its most important distinction, however, both in instruction and fitting capacities."

Thanks. I was googling the topic but got sidetracked. For some reason my wife thought it was more important for me to mow the lawn than figure out how launch monitors work.

 

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[Canucklehead]

Thanks. I was googling the topic but got sidetracked. For some reason my wife thought it was more important for me to mow the lawn than figure out how launch monitors work.

 

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She needs to get her priorities in order!

 

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[Rickp]

She needs to get her priorities in order!

 

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You go right back in that house and show her who's Boss!!

But wait till she's not home ....

 

 

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[Rekklss]

USGA took away our Publinks invite to the Masters in 2014. I will NEVER have anything to do with the USGA or their events - ivory tower bastards. My index is thru Golf Channel AM Tour events. USGA wants more people to take up the game but not any blue collar guys/girls. Hypocritical group. I've been to their schools ... racist bunch as well.

[five putt]

I can't remember the year but ever since Craig Stadler was penalized for kneeling on a towel to protect I have never renewed my USGA membership. The rules of golf are simply out of touch with reality

 

 

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[Kor.A.Door]

I have he issue with the rule, because up to the point of calling the violation on himself, he hadn't used either club. So what advantage was gained? since no shot was taken with either club, why was he or allowed to remove the sticker on the course prior to using it. He incurred an extra 4 shot penalty and was DQ'd because he knew the 6 iron also had the sticker, but failed to declare that it was out of play, even though it was never used during his round. I understand the rules committee made the decision correctly based on be current rule, but there is no common sense in any of these rules.

 

Here is how I would change a rule such as this. Is the club "nonconforming" based on the rule, if yes, was the club used prior to finding the violation, if yes, 2 stroke penalty, and club is removed from play, and cannot be replaced for the remainder of the tournament, if the club was not used, there is no penalty, but the club will be removed from play and cannot be replaced for be remainder of the tournament.

[revkev]

I can't remember the year but ever since Craig Stadler was penalized for kneeling on a towel to protect I have never renewed my USGA membership. The rules of golf are simply out of touch with reality

 

 

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I agree with Dave that the rule was properly enforced in this case. My point early on was the same as this one. The USGA appears to be out of touch with the rank and file who play the game.

 

I'm taking it that these rulings were by Tour officials but they will be blamed on the USGA anyway.

 

If it weren't for the groove rule that appeared to only benefit manufacturers and the anchor ban that appears directed against having fun followed by a couple of notable examples of poorly handling apparent rules violations in majors the stickers affair would be a non- factor.

 

 

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[Big money]

USGA took away our Publinks invite to the Masters in 2014. I will NEVER have anything to do with the USGA or their events - ivory tower bastards. My index is thru Golf Channel AM Tour events. USGA wants more people to take up the game but not any blue collar guys/girls. Hypocritical group. I've been to their schools ... racist bunch as well.

I agree with some of this.But have to say "less" are taking up the game due to its difficulty.Many of the Tiger woods generation who jammed every course available found this out.They now relay its difficulty for them to others discouraging new potential players from trying the game.Tons of non USGA golf programs that are trying to get "all" potential players interested.Golf just gets a bad rap from its insane difficulty

[Rusty1885]

Well it make sense. How else would one do to feel more important.

 

 

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[DaveP043]

For those who are interested, here is a portion of the proposed change to this rule, which could take effect in 2019:

 

 PENALTY FOR MAKING STROKE WITH CLUB IN BREACH OF RULE 4.1a: The player is disqualified. But there is no penalty under this Rule for merely carrying (but not making a stroke with) a non-conforming club or a club whose playing characteristics were deliberately changed during the round (but such a club would still count towards the 14-club limit in ().

 

I've read in other forums that the issue wasn't the application of a foreign substance, but that adding the stickers made the club "nonconforming."  It appears to me that the USGA is moving in a direction that many of the posters in this thread would like to see.  For those who are down on the USGA in general, does this change your opinion at all?

[Kenny B]

For those who are interested, here is a portion of the proposed change to this rule, which could take effect in 2019:

 

 PENALTY FOR MAKING STROKE WITH CLUB IN BREACH OF RULE 4.1a: The player is disqualified. But there is no penalty under this Rule for merely carrying (but not making a stroke with) a non-conforming club or a club whose playing characteristics were deliberately changed during the round (but such a club would still count towards the 14-club limit in ( ).

 

I've read in other forums that the issue wasn't the application of a foreign substance, but that adding the stickers made the club "nonconforming."  It appears to me that the USGA is moving in a direction that many of the posters in this thread would like to see.  For those who are down on the USGA in general, does this change your opinion at all?

I had heard on the day this happened that it wouldn't be a penalty in 2019.  But I think the USGA needs to clarify this new rule.  Under the new rule Ben Crane would not be penalized.  So, does that mean he could play them if he removed the stickers, since they would then be conforming and count towards the 14 club limit?  Or... once they have been deemed to be non-conforming, are they non-conforming for the entire round?  I hope not.

[DaveP043]

My first guess is that if a club is non-conforming, his only option would be to take it out of play.  As I understand it, he still wouldn't be allowed to alter the club during the round.  Any mechanic will tell you that you should clean your tools when you're done using them, so they're ready to use the next time.  He should have cleaned the "temporary" dots off the clubs when he was done practicing with them, so they were ready and legal to use.  Let's not make him a victim, he (or his caddie, possibly)  clearly screwed up.