Mulligans and Gimmes

[tony@CIC]

A commentary and a question:

What a difference between my club up north and my club here in Florida. Up north in men's league there's a generous mulligan or breakfast ball on the 1st tee for a wayward drive and sometimes it's even invoked for the wayward drive at the turn on 10. Gimmes? Within the 'leathers' could be 3' away for those putts. Here in Florida, neither concept exists in league. On the 1st tee, hit a wayward drive in the water (which by the way is everywhere here)- now you're hitting 3. Half a roll away from the cup - putt it out please.

It took a little bit of getting use to especially when I reflected on my scores and my rising Index - but on the other hand I'll be a better golfer when I head back north in May. 

What kind of informal 'rules' exist in your league events. 

[DiscipleofPenick]

47 minutes ago, tony@CIC said:

A commentary and a question:

What a difference between my club up north and my club here in Florida. Up north in men's league there's a generous mulligan or breakfast ball on the 1st tee for a wayward drive and sometimes it's even invoked for the wayward drive at the turn on 10. Gimmes? Within the 'leathers' could be 3' away for those putts. Here in Florida, neither concept exists in league. On the 1st tee, hit a wayward drive in the water (which by the way is everywhere here)- now you're hitting 3. Half a roll away from the cup - putt it out please.

It took a little bit of getting use to especially when I reflected on my scores and my rising Index - but on the other hand I'll be a better golfer when I head back north in May. 

What kind of informal 'rules' exist in your league events. 

The leagues I've played in it's always been gimmie putts once it's not for birdie or par. One league was modified stableford, and to try a speed up play, we were trying to get guys to pick up once they got to double bogey, as that was the worst score you could still get points on.

On the other hand, speaking for the two clubs I worked at - both as a caddy and as an assistant pro....

Unless it was the club championship, the big money member-guest, or fourball match play tournament, it was always always always breakfast balls on #1. 

And I would consider the majority of guys to be overly generous with gimmies. I mean I saw several that were outside the leather picked up. And anything inside 3 feet was always given, even if it was for birdie. I remember one time my guy hit it to about 18 inches on a par 3, and he was pretty nervous that his buddies were gonna make him putt it. Of course they waited till they got to the green before telling him to pick it up. Of course he said he'd putt it anyway and missed. Dude probably hadn't had to hit a putt that short in 30 years. 

Personally, I usually don't give putts until it's for bogey or worse. Birdies and pars need to be earned. I'm not going to make someone hit a 4 inch putt for par. I also won't argue or be annoyed if someone else in the group does concede the putt. You just won't hear me say "it's good".

[cnosil]

In my companies golf league no breakfast balls,  pickup for triple, and your opponent can give you putts. 

[CarlH]

No mulligans, putt everything out unless it's not being counted for the team score.  The problem with gummies is that "inside the leather" soon becomes a 3 footer or more depending on who's making the call.

[DaveP043]

I play most weekends with a group that is generally 3 or 4 foursomes.  We play for a bunch of trash, some match play elements, and a couple of bucks for two to four low net scores.  We generally play as much by the Rules as possible.  The one exception, we'll give putts, as long as they're within about the length of a standard golf grip.  Not from the clubhead to the grip (inside the leather), the length of the grip itself, which is about 12 inches.  

[The 19th Hole]

The club I play in is pretty small and mostly 15+ on handicaps (maybe 5-6 of us are single digit), but we still try and play as much to the rules as possible. Several times people come in with an x on the card becuase  they didn't want to finish a bad hole. I play by the rules with my ball, but when a "competitor" asks about a drop or somethign I always say sure. I am just out there for fun I don't need to be the jerk enforcing rules on people who are happy to break 100. Lets keep it fun people! 

 

 

[Tom the Golf Nut]

In my companies golf league, no breakfast balls,  pickup for triple, your putts must be inside the leather to be given and you must show it by placing the clubs grip from the edge of the hole to the ball. Depending on the course we get on we will allow you to roll the ball in the fairway. There are a few courses around that the fairways are beat to heck and full of divots. As long as everyone is playing by the same set of rules it's fine. Handicaps are league only handicaps and are not official.  

[fixyurdivot]

The company league I played in years (um decades) ago were straight up by the rules.  If memory serves, the only deviation was that 10 was the maximum score on a hole. Ultimately, as Tom points out, if everyone is playing to the same rules, it makes no difference other than how it effects handicap... and the inability to consistently make those 14 inchers .

[RollingGreens]

I’m giving out putts left and right. Some would say I’m too generous during the normal weekend rounds. Formal events I’m a little less lenient. If it’s a tap in I’ll usually give it to them if they want it from putters distance. 

[RickyBobby_PR]

5 hours ago, tony@CIC said:

A commentary and a question:

What a difference between my club up north and my club here in Florida. Up north in men's league there's a generous mulligan or breakfast ball on the 1st tee for a wayward drive and sometimes it's even invoked for the wayward drive at the turn on 10. Gimmes? Within the 'leathers' could be 3' away for those putts. Here in Florida, neither concept exists in league. On the 1st tee, hit a wayward drive in the water (which by the way is everywhere here)- now you're hitting 3. Half a roll away from the cup - putt it out please.

It took a little bit of getting use to especially when I reflected on my scores and my rising Index - but on the other hand I'll be a better golfer when I head back north in May. 

What kind of informal 'rules' exist in your league events. 

So one league plays by the rules and one doesn’t. Not using the rules of golf gives unfair advantages and would be a league i wouldn’t play in. When more than one group is involved in a competition putt everything out should be the standard because of one person group is more lenient than the other it’s not fair across then board. 

 

[B_R_A_D_Y]

Our men’s association has 32 2-man teams, split into 2 divisions. The problem is, in our league, you have a wide range of expectations … half the guys are there for fun & socialization, and others are there to compete. Therefore on the first tee, you gotta ask the other team what rules they want to follow. Some want to bump everywhere, some don’t want stroke & distance on lost balls, some give puts inside the leather and others give 3-4 ft puts. The rationalization, which I disagree with, is that it should not matter what the rules are, as long as both teams are playing the same rules. It’s head to head handicapped stroke play with each hole worth 1pt & a 1pt bonus for taking most points. So which is more important? Competition or socialization?
 

[RickyBobby_PR]

9 hours ago, B_R_A_D_Y said:

Our men’s association has 32 2-man teams, split into 2 divisions. The problem is, in our league, you have a wide range of expectations … half the guys are there for fun & socialization, and others are there to compete. Therefore on the first tee, you gotta ask the other team what rules they want to follow. Some want to bump everywhere, some don’t want stroke & distance on lost balls, some give puts inside the leather and others give 3-4 ft puts. The rationalization, which I disagree with, is that it should not matter what the rules are, as long as both teams are playing the same rules. It’s head to head handicapped stroke play with each hole worth 1pt & a 1pt bonus for taking most points. So which is more important? Competition or socialization?
 

But how does what happens in that match count towards points, standings out whatever system is used for the whole league. It has to be balanced across all the groups. 

[B_R_A_D_Y]

1 hour ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

But how does what happens in that match count towards points, standings out whatever system is used for the whole league. It has to be balanced across all the groups. 

I agree. It amazes me how many people want to be in a competition and yet think playing by the the rules ruins the fun. … … … Not that some rules aren’t nuts. 

Edited May 7, 2022 by B_R_A_D_Y

[DaveP043]

1 hour ago, B_R_A_D_Y said:

I agree. It amazes me how many people want to be in a competition and yet think playing by the the rules ruins the fun. … … … Not that some rules aren’t nuts. 

To me, its pretty amazing how well the rules work, and how the pieces all fit together.  The more I learn, the more I respect the folks who write them.

[B_R_A_D_Y]

Ahhh. I think there are a few that are unnecessary. Rules Guy wrote abt not being able to move an OB stake that interferes with ur swing. But I shan’t start a rules debate, cuz like politics, religion, and veganism, you aren’t going to change someone’s mind once it’s made up. 

[cnosil]

On 3/3/2022 at 8:38 AM, tony@CIC said:

What kind of informal 'rules' exist in your league events. 

In my company league:

• Triple bogey max
• Gimmies
• roll the ball in the fairway
• we still play COVID bunker rules
• on some holes with forced carry (they are identified in the league rules)
•  if you don't clear the penalty area you can drop on the other side if there is no drop zone

I think those are the big ones.  

[RollingGreens]

12 hours ago, B_R_A_D_Y said:

Our men’s association has 32 2-man teams, split into 2 divisions. The problem is, in our league, you have a wide range of expectations … half the guys are there for fun & socialization, and others are there to compete. Therefore on the first tee, you gotta ask the other team what rules they want to follow. Some want to bump everywhere, some don’t want stroke & distance on lost balls, some give puts inside the leather and others give 3-4 ft puts. The rationalization, which I disagree with, is that it should not matter what the rules are, as long as both teams are playing the same rules. It’s head to head handicapped stroke play with each hole worth 1pt & a 1pt bonus for taking most points. So which is more important? Competition or socialization?
 

With a big enough group like that you are more than likely going to have factions of golfers their for fun or competition. I suppose either way works assuming that some of the guys their for socializing aren’t running up low scores. 

[RickyBobby_PR]

38 minutes ago, B_R_A_D_Y said:

Ahhh. I think there are a few that are unnecessary. Rules Guy wrote abt not being able to move an OB stake that interferes with ur swing. But I shan’t start a rules debate, cuz like politics, religion, and veganism, you aren’t going to change someone’s mind once it’s made up. 

People don’t like rules that hurt their scores. It’s why you see so many say they give free relief if they are on rocks or a root. The rules already allow them take relief from that if they don’t want to hit from that lie but it also comes with a penalty. Since the penalty costs them something they choose not to follow it or like it and make up their own rules, yet they still post scores and consider their handicaps legit. Some are even low digit handicaps 

[DaveP043]

54 minutes ago, B_R_A_D_Y said:

Ahhh. I think there are a few that are unnecessary. Rules Guy wrote abt not being able to move an OB stake that interferes with ur swing. But I shan’t start a rules debate, cuz like politics, religion, and veganism, you aren’t going to change someone’s mind once it’s made up. 

Yeah, that particular issues was beaten to death in another thread here.  I don't know Rules Guy, do you have a reference I can look at?

[B_R_A_D_Y]

2 hours ago, DaveP043 said:

Yeah, that particular issues was beaten to death in another thread here.  I don't know Rules Guy, do you have a reference I can look at?

https://golf.com/instruction/rules/

[DaveP043]

11 minutes ago, B_R_A_D_Y said:

https://golf.com/instruction/rules/

Gotcha.  I had initially thought you were referring to someone's opinion regarding Boundary Objects, it looks like the Rules Guy gave a pretty straightforward explanation of that rule.

[Shapotomous]

Our league is the same way with respect to groups split between the fun and competitive factions.  I am competitive but it's between me and the course.  I always try for the best score possible, any other way isn't fun to me.  A lot of others 'manage' their handicaps by keeping an eye on their opponents score on a hole compared to their own and the shots involved on the hole.  For them a strategic double bogey or three can be advantageous for next week.  

I don't care if that's the way they want to play and I end up giving more shots than reasonable, I am not losing sleep over winning or losing the Tuesday evening 9 hole hackers league.  After all there's also money paid out at the end of the year for the most birdies and the most pars!  

[silver & black]

My league has a one time $1.00 mulligan off the tee on any hole you choose to use it. If putts are given, it is your opponent's decision to give it to you or make you putt it out. If your ball is against a tree or other obstacle, you can move it a club length no closer to the hole. That's about it.

Edited May 8, 2022 by silver & black
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