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TR1PTIK

Dustin Johnson - GOAT (read carefully)

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Listening to the No Laying Up podcast the other day and it was posited by one of the hosts that DJ is arguably the greatest player of all time. On the surface, that statement seems completely ignorant of any version of reality. However, the host goes on to explain (and I agree) that it's not DJ's actual achievements that make him the greatest - it's his potential. I don't think we've ever seen a golfer with so much natural talent and athleticism. No doubt we have seen golfers (such as Tiger and Rory) with immense levels of both, but factor in how much they worked on their craft and honed their skills (from a young age) - then look at DJ. Now, it's no secret that DJ has worked incredibly hard to improve his game (wedges in particular), but he doesn't strike me as the type of guy - nor have I seen much evidence to prove otherwise - who spends a lot of time grinding it out on the range. Yet, he pummeled the field last week in Mexico en route to his second WGC title at that course. He makes the game look far too easy sometimes and is often derided as "boring" (as discussed in the article linked below), but perhaps being "boring" is just another part of his greatness.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/golf/dustin-johnson-is-a-golf-savant-yes-really/ar-BBU7wUR 

Please note, I am by no means saying or implying that DJ - by his current on course record - is in any way better than Mickelson, Tiger, Jack, or Arnie, etc., etc.. What I am saying is that I agree with the idea that perhaps he could be. I encourage you guys to go check out the NLU podcast and listen to their take on this. I thought it was very interesting. Episode 195: WGC-Mexico Wrap. Interested to hear what my fellow spies think about this discussion.

Edited by TR1PTIK
typo
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If he had a more outgoing personality, he would get so many more accolades and more credit for what he has done over the last few years.

He has been the most dominant player in the game since Tiger.  Still not anywhere near Tiger's level from a career standpoint, but his accomplishments to date are pretty damn impressive.  And I would argue he has done so against more rival talent than Tiger ever had to face.

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As someone who isn't a fan of DJ's (I respect him and what he can do but don't turn on the TV to watch him like I would Tiger and others), I have no problem agreeing with the statement that he could be. I think if he wanted to be the goat and worked at it, the raw talent is there.

Another one that comes to mind is Cameron Champ.

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It is boring for sure. But he is a monster. I think he a phenomenal golfer, but as Jlukes said he has no like-ability factor, it’s monotone, flat, and boring. That’s how I am so I can relate, but it’s just stroll down the fairway, hit shot stroll down fairway, putt.

Not much flair.

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If you put Rickie Fowler's personality with DJ's talent we would be talking about the second coming of Arnold Palmer


Absolutely.
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If you put Rickie Fowler's personality with DJ's talent we would be talking about the second coming of Arnold Palmer

Or even the a third one into that mix - Rory.

There was a great story from last weekend about 2 young boys dressed as Rickie and Rory. Rory took them back into the locker room and gave them autographed shoes and glove. These are the kind of acts that add a touch of personality that DJ lacks.


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The article @TR1PTIK linked was pretty good, imo. 

I really enjoy watching DJ play, maybe because of how easy he makes it look when he is on and totally agree with @jlukes about where DJ would be if he had Rickie's personality.

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DJ deserves that discussion. He’s won 20 events in the past decade against what I believe is historically the greatest collective pool of talent we’ve ever seen in golf.


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Great points about DJ but... blowing the 2018 US Open should end all discussions about him being the GOAT. And many other tournaments he’s blown with a putter.


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2 hours ago, Slap said:

Great points about DJ but... blowing the 2018 US Open should end all discussions about him being the GOAT. And many other tournaments he’s blown with a putter.


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As it relates to DJ's on-course performance, I'd never even think him to be a contender for GOAT in a traditional sense. His putter has been hugely problematic throughout the years - the 2015 U.S. Open was a lock until he 3-jacked it - but his ceiling is extremely high. I don't think it'd be a stretch to say he'd have multiple majors and be pushing the 30 win mark if not for his off-course activities during the earlier stages of his career and relatively lax approach to practice. If he had been grinding from a young age like Tiger and Rory, where would he be now? 

Edited by TR1PTIK
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19 minutes ago, bens197 said:

DJ deserves that discussion. He’s won 20 events in the past decade against what I believe is historically the greatest collective pool of talent we’ve ever seen in golf.


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+1.  Likeability, low key personality aside, he's now in rarified air as it pertains to PGA records.  Also, should his golf career suddenly go south, I think he could star in some spaghetti westerns... he's already got a fist full of dollars. 😉

 

clint.jpg

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+1.  Likeability, low key personality aside, he's now in rarified air as it pertains to PGA records.  Also, should his golf career suddenly go south, I think he could star in some spaghetti westerns... he's already got a fist full of dollars. 
 
clint.jpg.c9f45a390bc15a782861a293c1968003.jpg


Blazing saddles 2???

Don’t tempt me 🤣
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If goat was determined by potential only then Rory would be ahead of dj. Imo Rors is untouchable when he’s firing on all cylinders. 

JT based on potential would be right there. Heck Phil who many consider top 10-15 all time would be

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This thread makes me think of what an old football coach used to say. “The definition of potential is: ain’t done crap yet!”

Now, DJ has won 20 times, which is more than a bunch of other “big name” guys put together, but I don’t go for “potential” in an argument about best ever. You either are, or you aren’t... No “ifs, ands or buts,” period. Dude is good, but he is who he IS. “If he were more like so-and-so,” or, “if only he did this,” problem is he isn’t, and he doesn’t. Let’s call a goat a goat for what they HAVE done, not what they could do...
Greatest ever, possibly? Not at this pace. He’s good... But he isn’t the greatest.

“If ifs and buts were presents and nuts, wed ALL have a good Christmas!”


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11 minutes ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

If goat was determined by potential only then Rory would be ahead of dj. Imo Rors is untouchable when he’s firing on all cylinders. 

JT based on potential would be right there. Heck Phil who many consider top 10-15 all time would be

While I'd agree that Rory, JT, and even Phil would all be up there, I think they've pretty well demonstrated at some point in their careers already what their ceiling is. I don't know if the same could be said for DJ. Sure, we've seen him play some great golf, but have we seen him leverage his full potential and play his very best golf? IDK. It's interesting too because even polls and interviews of fellow tour pros often reveal that most in the game think DJ's athleticism is unmatched.

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If DJ's putter stays as hot as it was in Mexico then we may be revisiting this conversation come august...I'm not saying it will but I think historically thats what has held him back. 

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I was just looking through some tour stats and was interested in seeing how many season DJ has won in since I knew he has had quite the streak. DJ has won at least 1 event in every season since 2008 and since 2016 has won at least 3 events each season! That's just a level of play that we've not seen much of in the new era of golf. 

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26 minutes ago, TR1PTIK said:

While I'd agree that Rory, JT, and even Phil would all be up there, I think they've pretty well demonstrated at some point in their careers already what their ceiling is. I don't know if the same could be said for DJ. Sure, we've seen him play some great golf, but have we seen him leverage his full potential and play his very best golf? IDK. It's interesting too because even polls and interviews of fellow tour pros often reveal that most in the game think DJ's athleticism is unmatched.

Every agreed dj is a heck of an athlete and even better once he started working with Joey d. Then his focus on improving wedge game elevated him from a one win per year guy to a major winner and the potential for multiple victories every year.  Other than his athletic ability being better than most although Koepka probably gives him a run for his money he’s nit even close to being in a greatest golfer conversation 

i don’t think we seen the ceiling for Rory and definitely not jt.

for dj the only thing left would be to improv his putting.  He has a long way to go to prove he is the greatest. He is lagging far behind in majors which is key in deterring the greatest(look at the tiger vs Jack debate).  Then from a total win perspective he may catch Phil but that still puts him a long way from a lot of the greates golfers in win total.

 

 

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46 minutes ago, bardle said:

If DJ's putter stays as hot as it was in Mexico then we may be revisiting this conversation come august...I'm not saying it will but I think historically thats what has held him back. 

I'd agree, and he also still has work to do in that regard. He is currently ranked 13 for SG: Putting which is up from a T48 the week before. Interesting too, is that Rory currently outperforms DJ in every SG category except putting and is 1st for overall strokes gained.

 

Freshly pulled from the PGA TOUR website...

Rory Strokes Gained This Week

  • Tee-to-Green = 2nd (3rd last week)
  • Approach = 34th (43rd last week)
  • Putting = 42nd (T60th last week)
  • Total = 1st (5th last week)

DJ Strokes Gained This Week

  • Tee-to-Green = 6th (28th last week)
  • Approach = 35th (115th last week)
  • Putting = 13th (T48th last week)
  • Total = 4th (21st last week)

I should note that these stats are Y-T-D through the WGC-Mexico.

Edited by TR1PTIK
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