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[tony@CIC]

19 hours ago, Getoffmylawn said:

Offer accepted; I bought a house today finally!

Congrats - what town are you moving to. 

[sirchunksalot]

20 hours ago, Getoffmylawn said:

Offer accepted; I bought a house today finally!

Congratulations Hayes!

[GolfSpy AFG]

6 hours ago, tony@CIC said:

Congrats - what town are you moving to. 

Thanks. Dayton Ohio.  Have to report to Wright-Patterson on 1 Aug.

6 hours ago, MattF said:

Congratulations! What area did you end up in?

Thanks!  Beavercreek

[GaryF]

3 hours ago, Getoffmylawn said:

Thanks. Dayton Ohio.  Have to report to Wright-Patterson on 1 Aug.

Thanks!  Beavercreek

Hope they treat you well! I spent my 40+ career working as a Navy civilian and did a lot of r&d and acquisition collaboration with the AF Simulator Division and AFRL at WPAFB.  

[artful_golfer]

Convincing men it's ok to play with women.

This post turned out longer than anticipated but I think it's important and would like feedback on it. Often men don't seem to think women are worthy to compete against. I've experienced my fair share of a couple of men letting a group of ladies know they are not welcome on the course. 

I played in a club team tournament this past weekend that is setup much like Ryder Cup with all match play. Difference is we include men and women. Often men play against the men and women vs women but we are starting to see a few men vs women in this tournament. Usually this tournament is foursomes but we had two extra players the 2nd day. Luck of the draw had me playing in the twosome against a man I knew casually but had never played with before. He had a lower handicap but only 2 strokes.

At first you could tell he was quite bothered - both verbally (complaining to the pro) and  physically (demeanor, facial expressions, etc). My husband followed us the first 4 holes and later said it was easy to tell he was upset. I had decided to be "sort of" quiet but super positive/complimentary (he really did have an awesome long drive) and just play my best game.

I won the first hole, then we tied the next two holes. By that time, his demeanor was still stiff but loosened just a little and more as we played. I won the front nine 2-up with 1 to play giving my team a point. Then came a huge change. He wanted to go ahead an play the 9th hole just for the heck of it (which I also won).

By the time we took a restroom/water break and got to the 10th tee box he was completely different. I think he had realized that I actually was a worthy and fun competitor. He chatted for 10 minutes on the tee box and then we continued to chat and laugh throughout the back nine. He won the back nine so we split the points, which I was semi glad about. 

After the round, I thanked him for playing and told him I enjoyed the round. He thanked me for forcing him up his game, which he absolutely did starting with number 14. Then he suggested we tell those setting up our weekly weekend groupings to mix it up more with men vs ladies (without it being couples) so everyone could get to know each other better. I was surprised but delighted. I have won a new friend and been accepted as a fun, worthy competitor. Wish I didn't have to prove it. Or do men have to prove it also?

 

[ParFore74x]

45 minutes ago, artful_golfer said:

Convincing men it's ok to play with women.

This post turned out longer than anticipated but I think it's important and would like feedback on it. Often men don't seem to think women are worthy to compete against. I've experienced my fair share of a couple of men letting a group of ladies know they are not welcome on the course. 

I played in a club team tournament this past weekend that is setup much like Ryder Cup with all match play. Difference is we include men and women. Often men play against the men and women vs women but we are starting to see a few men vs women in this tournament. Usually this tournament is foursomes but we had two extra players the 2nd day. Luck of the draw had me playing in the twosome against a man I knew casually but had never played with before. He had a lower handicap but only 2 strokes.

At first you could tell he was quite bothered - both verbally (complaining to the pro) and  physically (demeanor, facial expressions, etc). My husband followed us the first 4 holes and later said it was easy to tell he was upset. I had decided to be "sort of" quiet but super positive/complimentary (he really did have an awesome long drive) and just play my best game.

I won the first hole, then we tied the next two holes. By that time, his demeanor was still stiff but loosened just a little and more as we played. I won the front nine 2-up with 1 to play giving my team a point. Then came a huge change. He wanted to go ahead an play the 9th hole just for the heck of it (which I also won).

By the time we took a restroom/water break and got to the 10th tee box he was completely different. I think he had realized that I actually was a worthy and fun competitor. He chatted for 10 minutes on the tee box and then we continued to chat and laugh throughout the back nine. He won the back nine so we split the points, which I was semi glad about. 

After the round, I thanked him for playing and told him I enjoyed the round. He thanked me for forcing him up his game, which he absolutely did starting with number 14. Then he suggested we tell those setting up our weekly weekend groupings to mix it up more with men vs ladies (without it being couples) so everyone could get to know each other better. I was surprised but delighted. I have won a new friend and been accepted as a fun, worthy competitor. Wish I didn't have to prove it. Or do men have to prove it also?

 

That’s great. Unfortunate that you have to prove yourself but, it sounds like you did it in the perfect way. Competitive, humble and having fun can really make for a great round. 

[GolfSpy_BEN]

As a boy, one of my first rounds was with my grandmother and 2 of the ladies she played bridge with. Her friend, Peaches, hit the ball like a freight train. I think that experience at a formative age instilled in me a sense that this game was meant to be enjoyed by everyone, regardless of gender or orientation. Since then I have enjoyed rounds with ladies of all skill levels, from 120 shooters to someone who played in the women’s US Open. 
My preference for playing partners has always bent towards kind people rather than toxic folks. Experience has taught me that women playing partners are more often the former than the latter.  
As to  having to prove yourself before gaining acceptance, I have encountered this with other males but it is infrequent. In my experience, that attitude is tied to certain socioeconomic circumstances/privileged environments. I tend to avoid those scenes.

[tony@CIC]

On 6/4/2023 at 3:26 PM, Getoffmylawn said:

Thanks. Dayton Ohio.  Have to report to Wright-Patterson on 1 Aug.

Thanks!  Beavercreek

FYI there's a large contingent of Forum members from Ohio and they hold 'gettogethers'. I'm sure @DiscipleofPenick can put you on the list of events. 

[Rickp]

5 minutes ago, Ben Joest said:

As a boy, one of my first rounds was with my grandmother and 2 of the ladies she played bridge with. Her friend, Peaches, hit the ball like a freight train. I think that experience at a formative age instilled in me a sense that this game was meant to be enjoyed by everyone, regardless of gender or orientation. Since then I have enjoyed rounds with ladies of all skill levels, from 120 shooters to someone who played in the women’s US Open. 
My preference for playing partners has always bent towards kind people rather than toxic folks. Experience has taught me that women playing partners are more often the former than the latter.  
As to  having to prove yourself before gaining acceptance, I have encountered this with other males but it is infrequent. In my experience, that attitude is tied to certain socioeconomic circumstances/privileged environments. I tend to avoid those scenes.

I haven’t witnessed the women having to prove themselves to the guys.  Actually seen more of guys having to prove themselves to the other guys.  

[Caddie1966]

1 hour ago, artful_golfer said:

Convincing men it's ok to play with women.

This post turned out longer than anticipated but I think it's important and would like feedback on it. Often men don't seem to think women are worthy to compete against. I've experienced my fair share of a couple of men letting a group of ladies know they are not welcome on the course. 

I played in a club team tournament this past weekend that is setup much like Ryder Cup with all match play. Difference is we include men and women. Often men play against the men and women vs women but we are starting to see a few men vs women in this tournament. Usually this tournament is foursomes but we had two extra players the 2nd day. Luck of the draw had me playing in the twosome against a man I knew casually but had never played with before. He had a lower handicap but only 2 strokes.

At first you could tell he was quite bothered - both verbally (complaining to the pro) and  physically (demeanor, facial expressions, etc). My husband followed us the first 4 holes and later said it was easy to tell he was upset. I had decided to be "sort of" quiet but super positive/complimentary (he really did have an awesome long drive) and just play my best game.

I won the first hole, then we tied the next two holes. By that time, his demeanor was still stiff but loosened just a little and more as we played. I won the front nine 2-up with 1 to play giving my team a point. Then came a huge change. He wanted to go ahead an play the 9th hole just for the heck of it (which I also won).

By the time we took a restroom/water break and got to the 10th tee box he was completely different. I think he had realized that I actually was a worthy and fun competitor. He chatted for 10 minutes on the tee box and then we continued to chat and laugh throughout the back nine. He won the back nine so we split the points, which I was semi glad about. 

After the round, I thanked him for playing and told him I enjoyed the round. He thanked me for forcing him up his game, which he absolutely did starting with number 14. Then he suggested we tell those setting up our weekly weekend groupings to mix it up more with men vs ladies (without it being couples) so everyone could get to know each other better. I was surprised but delighted. I have won a new friend and been accepted as a fun, worthy competitor. Wish I didn't have to prove it. Or do men have to prove it also?

 

Golf is a great equalizer.  You did well to handle the situation the way you did.  Our club has started mixing and matching women and men for a number of tournaments.  

[GaryF]

4 hours ago, artful_golfer said:

Convincing men it's ok to play with women.

This post turned out longer than anticipated but I think it's important and would like feedback on it. Often men don't seem to think women are worthy to compete against. I've experienced my fair share of a couple of men letting a group of ladies know they are not welcome on the course. 

I played in a club team tournament this past weekend that is setup much like Ryder Cup with all match play. Difference is we include men and women. Often men play against the men and women vs women but we are starting to see a few men vs women in this tournament. Usually this tournament is foursomes but we had two extra players the 2nd day. Luck of the draw had me playing in the twosome against a man I knew casually but had never played with before. He had a lower handicap but only 2 strokes.

At first you could tell he was quite bothered - both verbally (complaining to the pro) and  physically (demeanor, facial expressions, etc). My husband followed us the first 4 holes and later said it was easy to tell he was upset. I had decided to be "sort of" quiet but super positive/complimentary (he really did have an awesome long drive) and just play my best game.

I won the first hole, then we tied the next two holes. By that time, his demeanor was still stiff but loosened just a little and more as we played. I won the front nine 2-up with 1 to play giving my team a point. Then came a huge change. He wanted to go ahead an play the 9th hole just for the heck of it (which I also won).

By the time we took a restroom/water break and got to the 10th tee box he was completely different. I think he had realized that I actually was a worthy and fun competitor. He chatted for 10 minutes on the tee box and then we continued to chat and laugh throughout the back nine. He won the back nine so we split the points, which I was semi glad about. 

After the round, I thanked him for playing and told him I enjoyed the round. He thanked me for forcing him up his game, which he absolutely did starting with number 14. Then he suggested we tell those setting up our weekly weekend groupings to mix it up more with men vs ladies (without it being couples) so everyone could get to know each other better. I was surprised but delighted. I have won a new friend and been accepted as a fun, worthy competitor. Wish I didn't have to prove it. Or do men have to prove it also?

 

I see nothing wrong with it.  Everyone has a course hdcp for the tees they play, and that’s the beauty of golf - it’s designed to allow all levels of play in a fair way.  I’ve never played in competition against women (scrambles don’t count), but would have no problem with it.  A couple months ago a buddy and I were paired with a married couple and ‘she’ was a former/recent club champion.  I felt pretty intimidated but casually knew her and we all had a great time.  I played well, shot an 81 (gross) and she shot 77 which was a couple strokes over her hdcp.  I felt she upped my game - not because she was female, but because she is a better golfer than me.

With that being said, I can see how some men might not want to play competitively against women.  But that’s their problem.  You have nothing to prove to step onto the same course as them. 

[cksurfdude]

19 hours ago, artful_golfer said:

Wish I didn't have to prove it. Or do men have to prove it also?

Really great topic! ..did you start a thread in the Women's Forum (I haven't looked in there)..?

Anyway, neither my wife nor I compete .. so cannot speak to that .. but we enjoy getting out on the course and playing the game of golf together. And, of course, golf courses being what they are we are often paired with others - and, again, golf courses being what they are it is more frequently men.

We've rarely encountered any men who were not at least polite .. but generally have been friendly .. though there have been a few incidents over the years where my wife felt outright insulted - including one recently at our private club..

Personally I think you @artful_golfer had the best response - by playing your own game, and playing it well and proving you are a competitive golfer and a good one!! (..what's that old saying about the best revenge ...  )

 

[GaryF]

24 minutes ago, cksurfdude said:

Really great topic! ..did you start a thread in the Women's Forum (I haven't looked in there)..?

Anyway, neither my wife nor I compete .. so cannot speak to that .. but we enjoy getting out on the course and playing the game of golf together. And, of course, golf courses being what they are we are often paired with others - and, again, golf courses being what they are it is more frequently men.

We've rarely encountered any men who were not at least polite .. but generally have been friendly .. though there have been a few incidents over the years where my wife felt outright insulted - including one recently at our private club..

Personally I think you @artful_golfer had the best response - by playing your own game, and playing it well and proving you are a competitive golfer and a good one!! (..what's that old saying about the best revenge ...  )

 

Last month my wife played with one of her gf’s and they were paired with 2 guys. The guys were very nice and courteous.  On the 17th par 3, as my wife as putting her clubs back in the bag on the cart path about 30’ to the left of the green, she was hit by a tee shot, mid-air. We have a club rule, do not tee off on par 3s until the group in front is out of sight. 

The guy never yelled ‘fore’ and when he approached my wife, all he had to say was ‘so do you have to go to the Hosp?’.  She demanded his name, then wrote a letter to our golf ops.  Right after the incident, she verbally complained in the club house and they kind of let it out that there have been other complaints.  Of course nothing happened.  

When I mentioned this to a buddy of mine, he said he and his wife were once paired with him, and that by the time they made the turn, he was on his 6th beer.  The world is full of self righteous people like him. 
 

 

[EasyPutter]

20 hours ago, artful_golfer said:

Convincing men it's ok to play with women.

This post turned out longer than anticipated but I think it's important and would like feedback on it. Often men don't seem to think women are worthy to compete against. I've experienced my fair share of a couple of men letting a group of ladies know they are not welcome on the course. 

I played in a club team tournament this past weekend that is setup much like Ryder Cup with all match play. Difference is we include men and women. Often men play against the men and women vs women but we are starting to see a few men vs women in this tournament. Usually this tournament is foursomes but we had two extra players the 2nd day. Luck of the draw had me playing in the twosome against a man I knew casually but had never played with before. He had a lower handicap but only 2 strokes.

At first you could tell he was quite bothered - both verbally (complaining to the pro) and  physically (demeanor, facial expressions, etc). My husband followed us the first 4 holes and later said it was easy to tell he was upset. I had decided to be "sort of" quiet but super positive/complimentary (he really did have an awesome long drive) and just play my best game.

I won the first hole, then we tied the next two holes. By that time, his demeanor was still stiff but loosened just a little and more as we played. I won the front nine 2-up with 1 to play giving my team a point. Then came a huge change. He wanted to go ahead an play the 9th hole just for the heck of it (which I also won).

By the time we took a restroom/water break and got to the 10th tee box he was completely different. I think he had realized that I actually was a worthy and fun competitor. He chatted for 10 minutes on the tee box and then we continued to chat and laugh throughout the back nine. He won the back nine so we split the points, which I was semi glad about. 

After the round, I thanked him for playing and told him I enjoyed the round. He thanked me for forcing him up his game, which he absolutely did starting with number 14. Then he suggested we tell those setting up our weekly weekend groupings to mix it up more with men vs ladies (without it being couples) so everyone could get to know each other better. I was surprised but delighted. I have won a new friend and been accepted as a fun, worthy competitor. Wish I didn't have to prove it. Or do men have to prove it also?

 

I have seen that kind of attitude from men but also from women who my partner and I were paired up with last summer.  We actually did not get to play with them because as soon as the Starter had matched up our twosomes their rhetoric started about being ready to go and not going to wait.  Partner had to check in still and I made a very quick clubhouse in and out only to discover the women twosome already heading to their tee shots.  Partner and I arriving at the tee box while the foursome ahead were still far too close for my partner's drive and their cart stopping at a distance just shorter than where I would have landed my drive.  We had to wait until they were far enough ahead to not hit into them and then we were off.

They were always ahead of us and though they had a driving cart and we were pushing our clubs walking, we had to wait for them constantly as their gap behind the foursome kept growing.  When the playing groups bunched up at an uphill par 3 there was no question the two women's silence was a passive aggressive "don't you dare suggest we play the hole together" and there was no way we were going to get closer than absolutely necessary (next county would have been our first option).

Personally I look forward to playing with women as my slower swing speed puts my shots into a similar range as theirs and there is always the possibility that people watching us play will not notice anything about my game being distracted by the fairer partner(s), which to me takes the pressure off and I try not to play too much worse that they might want to share a future round together. 

Thank you @artful_golfer for posting this to allow discussion.  The more we can break stereotypes and open the game to real people without antisocial attitudes the better the golf experience will be and discussion is a great place to start.  My experience is like being at the sandbox at recess in elementary school, there are those who get along well together and just have fun and others that for whatever reason insist on being difficult to get along with.  Put me in the first group and let's have fun 

[StrokerAce]

had anyone seen this happen with their Stealth 2 ??

 

[russtopherb]

1 hour ago, EasyPutter said:

Thank you @artful_golfer for posting this to allow discussion.  The more we can break stereotypes and open the game to real people without antisocial attitudes the better the golf experience will be and discussion is a great place to start.  My experience is like being at the sandbox at recess in elementary school, there are those who get along well together and just have fun and others that for whatever reason insist on being difficult to get along with.  Put me in the first group and let's have fun 

Hear, hear! I've been paired up with women many times and I always enjoyed every single round. The less "judging book by it's cover" on the course (and in life), the better. 

[artful_golfer]

2 hours ago, cksurfdude said:

Really great topic! ..did you start a thread in the Women's Forum (I haven't looked in there)..?

Anyway, neither my wife nor I compete .. so cannot speak to that .. but we enjoy getting out on the course and playing the game of golf together. And, of course, golf courses being what they are we are often paired with others - and, again, golf courses being what they are it is more frequently men.

We've rarely encountered any men who were not at least polite .. but generally have been friendly .. though there have been a few incidents over the years where my wife felt outright insulted - including one recently at our private club..

Personally I think you @artful_golfer had the best response - by playing your own game, and playing it well and proving you are a competitive golfer and a good one!! (..what's that old saying about the best revenge ...  )

 

Thanks for your reponse. I didn't post this in the women's forum because I felt like it's not a women's only topic and I really wanted feedback from my men spy friends. I think the Women's Forum will allow men to react to a topic but not comment.

The guy I was playing with was not directly rude or ugly to me. It was more that it was obvious he was not happy with the playing situation. And I felt like it was best to tread lightly and hope to prove I could handle this. I was very fortunate that it was one of my better playing days. 

[artful_golfer]

18 hours ago, GaryF said:

I see nothing wrong with it.  Everyone has a course hdcp for the tees they play, and that’s the beauty of golf - it’s designed to allow all levels of play in a fair way.  I’ve never played in competition against women (scrambles don’t count), but would have no problem with it.  A couple months ago a buddy and I were paired with a married couple and ‘she’ was a former/recent club champion.  I felt pretty intimidated but casually knew her and we all had a great time.  I played well, shot an 81 (gross) and she shot 77 which was a couple strokes over her hdcp.  I felt she upped my game - not because she was female, but because she is a better golfer than me.

With that being said, I can see how some men might not want to play competitively against women.  But that’s their problem.  You have nothing to prove to step onto the same course as them. 

Thanks. I understand and fully support guy golf and male camaraderie. And I have always encouraged my husband and son to play with their guy groups and would never try to join them. I also understand ladies golf and how different the dynamics are with a ladies group. We both need our groups and friends to be with. But this was tournament golf with mixed overall teams. To be fair, the dynamics would probably have been quite different if we had been in a foursome.

[Rickp]

55 minutes ago, artful_golfer said:

Thanks for your reponse. I didn't post this in the women's forum because I felt like it's not a women's only topic and I really wanted feedback from my men spy friends. I think the Women's Forum will allow men to react to a topic but not comment.

The guy I was playing with was not directly rude or ugly to me. It was more that it was obvious he was not happy with the playing situation. And I felt like it was best to tread lightly and hope to prove I could handle this. I was very fortunate that it was one of my better playing days. 

Good idea  

[JerryB]

On 6/5/2023 at 3:02 PM, artful_golfer said:

I have won a new friend and been accepted as a fun, worthy competitor. Wish I didn't have to prove it. Or do men have to prove it also?

I'm fortunate that most of my golf takes place in places where my son and I don't need to get paired up.  I'm just not terribly social and having two pairs that are together but not together feels like it would be awkward.  Which is funny because the few times we have been grouped up with random people, the rounds have been a delight for various reasons.

I don't play competitive golf but I can't imagine I would have an issue with anybody as long as they were courteous and didn't self-destruct.  I've seen far more awful males than females in the golf community and I would assume that, like in many other arenas, women have to work a little harder than men in order to be accepted.  And that sucks.

I'm rambling here, and I guess I have nothing really insightful to add.  Just irks me that, while a happy ending, this kind of encounter shouldn't have to start out this way.  Can't we all just get along?

[GaryF]

4 hours ago, artful_golfer said:

Thanks. I understand and fully support guy golf and male camaraderie. And I have always encouraged my husband and son to play with their guy groups and would never try to join them. I also understand ladies golf and how different the dynamics are with a ladies group. We both need our groups and friends to be with. But this was tournament golf with mixed overall teams. To be fair, the dynamics would probably have been quite different if we had been in a foursome.

I’ll offer another view point but preface it with, by choice, I have limited competitive golf in my background and for the foreseeable future will remain that way. I have played other sports competitively most notably I played baseball thru post-college.  I was predominantly a pitcher (and some inf and OF).  Being only 5-9, I HAD to prove myself every day.  I was described as intense - it’s just how I developed as a competitor, and I even practiced with intensity. 

When I have competed in golf, I’m pretty focused.  I might exchange some pleasantries after tee shots for a short distance, but from then on, I’m thinking about my next shot.  Play my game and not allow myself to be distracted.  My opponent barely exists, not because of gender, but just how I focus.  If they hit a good shot, I’ll acknowledge it, etc., but I’m there to compete. And win.

I don’t really want that kind of competition at this point, so  I prefer to play recreationally, but I still bring a pretty high degree of focus, and I block a lot of stuff out.  

Now, as for your opponent that you described as upset, complaining, body language, etc….I’m not a fan of this, but don’t underestimate the tactics that others may employ in a competition, including tactics to take up real estate in their opponents head.  If a player gets in their opponents head, they have gained an edge.   One of the best tools one has has is the ability to control their own thoughts and emotions.   Control what you can control, the rest is just noise. 

[artful_golfer]

15 hours ago, GaryF said:

I’ll offer another view point but preface it with, by choice, I have limited competitive golf in my background and for the foreseeable future will remain that way. I have played other sports competitively most notably I played baseball thru post-college.  I was predominantly a pitcher (and some inf and OF).  Being only 5-9, I HAD to prove myself every day.  I was described as intense - it’s just how I developed as a competitor, and I even practiced with intensity. 

When I have competed in golf, I’m pretty focused.  I might exchange some pleasantries after tee shots for a short distance, but from then on, I’m thinking about my next shot.  Play my game and not allow myself to be distracted.  My opponent barely exists, not because of gender, but just how I focus.  If they hit a good shot, I’ll acknowledge it, etc., but I’m there to compete. And win.

I don’t really want that kind of competition at this point, so  I prefer to play recreationally, but I still bring a pretty high degree of focus, and I block a lot of stuff out.  

Now, as for your opponent that you described as upset, complaining, body language, etc….I’m not a fan of this, but don’t underestimate the tactics that others may employ in a competition, including tactics to take up real estate in their opponents head.  If a player gets in their opponents head, they have gained an edge.   One of the best tools one has has is the ability to control their own thoughts and emotions.   Control what you can control, the rest is just noise. 

I had not considered this. Thanks for a different perspective. If faced with this in the future, I will remember your thoughts . . . but still try to be my nonconfrontational self.

[RichL85]

Interesting situation you had to deal with @artful_golfer. I can understand a lot of what @GaryF is saying from just a personal standpoint. I was in a lot of different competitive activities throughout school and in college, and I can honestly say if I were grouped with you, I would probably come off as "standoff-ish" but that's just me. I am fully aware that I'm a very introverted person to begin with, especially with people that I don't know well, and even with people I do know, I only have a limited amount of social capacity before I'm just mentally and physically done. It's 100% not intentional or meant to disturb the people around me, but it's just me. So Gary might come off relatively quiet due to internal focus, I might come off the exact same, but for a much different reason. I'm glad your experience improved on the back 9 and you were able to enjoy it.

Having said that, I appreciate the competition, male or female. In fact, during college, I spent most of my tennis practice sessions playing with a woman that was ranked in the state. I enjoyed that more than playing with a lot of the guys around me because it forced me to play a different type of game. I usually found ways to frustrate male players and force them into mistakes, but she was very solid and forced me to play outside of my normal game to have a chance. I think over the 3 years I only won a handful of times, but we had a lot of close matches.

[GaryF]

4 hours ago, RichL85 said:

Interesting situation you had to deal with @artful_golfer. I can understand a lot of what @GaryF is saying from just a personal standpoint. I was in a lot of different competitive activities throughout school and in college, and I can honestly say if I were grouped with you, I would probably come off as "standoff-ish" but that's just me. I am fully aware that I'm a very introverted person to begin with, especially with people that I don't know well, and even with people I do know, I only have a limited amount of social capacity before I'm just mentally and physically done. It's 100% not intentional or meant to disturb the people around me, but it's just me. So Gary might come off relatively quiet due to internal focus, I might come off the exact same, but for a much different reason. I'm glad your experience improved on the back 9 and you were able to enjoy it.

Having said that, I appreciate the competition, male or female. In fact, during college, I spent most of my tennis practice sessions playing with a woman that was ranked in the state. I enjoyed that more than playing with a lot of the guys around me because it forced me to play a different type of game. I usually found ways to frustrate male players and force them into mistakes, but she was very solid and forced me to play outside of my normal game to have a chance. I think over the 3 years I only won a handful of times, but we had a lot of close matches.

I appreciate your comments, and we are probably a lot alike.  I too am an introvert and took the M-B several times during my career and always measured as a strong “I”.  As I moved up the ladder into senior mgt, I learned to adopt the alternate, and yes, it can be very draining.  Backing into the comfort zone may appear as standoffish which unfortunately can be misinterpreted by others.  

Golf is a great sport that allows everyone to just be themselves, whatever that may be.  I am at a stage that I don’t want to roll into that ultra intense demeanor - it can be very draining and even stressful which all comes from within.  What I enjoy most now are golf team events…or just casual, recreational where the competitor is the golf course. 
 

[GaryF]

10 hours ago, artful_golfer said:

I had not considered this. Thanks for a different perspective. If faced with this in the future, I will remember your thoughts . . . but still try to be my nonconfrontational self.

Just be yourself and stay in your comfort zone.  Most people I’ve played with are respectful and courteous, but there are exceptions.  I try to ignore it.  The only thing I know for sure, if you are assigned to play an opponent, it’s because you have earned to be there. And if you feel you have to prove yourself, then I hope you have a way to channel those feelings into a positive motivation. 

 

[richk9holes]

I can't believe Yahoo is still a thing. 

[Goober]

Got back a few days ago from a tour striker academy in person lesson. The main man Mr Martin Chuck wasn’t available. So I had a lesson from one of his stud assistants. The weather was unbearably hot in Arizona. But what a great learning experience. This was my 3 rd visit to the academy. And they truly do fit you with a swing that is about playing good fun golf. They give you good checkpoints when things go wrong . And great drills to maintain and build on the learning experience. Out of the million training aids available at ones disposable here. The best one was using a long putter swinging it split handed. It just naturally got me in the positions they required. And gave me good mental and visual cues which I can practice on my own. Not an advocate of a long putter. But for what I’m working on… it did the trick. We dropped down my swing thoughts to Wide on way back. Relax on way down. Then collect ball and rotate. Kinda feel if this was karate. I would be a blue belt now . Hahah 

Really enjoy how they are developing repeating patterns with individual case by case students. Versus a system or a one swing fits all pattern. Back in the day I would have to play 6-7 days a week and hit a million balls to keep a timing based swing in check. Now (once I get this a little more grooved). I might be able to just focus on enjoying golf versus hoping I have that perfect timing shot to shot. Really feels like this will turn into a real repeatable motion. With simple feels and thoughts. Fingers crossed 

[StrokerAce]

I was fortunate enough to attend a practice round at The Country Club in 2022 and remember this hole well. 
This is one of the greatest bunker shots I've ever seen in my life. 
For him to move the ball that much out of the bunker and hold the green is something only a few people in the world would be able to do. 
Absolutely stunning.

 

[GaryF]

Feeling a lot of mixed emotions.  Last night my dau took her 5 mo pup Golden Doodle for a walk on a leash in her new neighborhood.  They moved in to the house they built last week.  They have yet to meet any neighbors. While walking, her dig was attacked by 2 pit bulls.   My dau tried to pull the pup away, then my dau was bit, screamed and ran back. Lady next door heard the screams and ran out to help.  One pit was on a leash, the other wasn’t.  911 was called and police and animal control arrived.  

The pup survived with many bites and lacerations but no torn ligaments or fractures.  Turns out, the lady is the owner as she was taking care of her sons dogs while home from college.  Lady said the dogs were tied up outside and must have gotten loose.  I think that is a lie.  Also, this is an ultra upscale neighborhood in Milton GA with homes on 3 acre lots.  No way she was inside her house to hear the screams.  Having owned dogs for many years, I’ve never tied a dog up with a leash on, but rather use a long chain.  I think she was outside and needed to free her hands (eg, text, phone, water plants) and set the leash down, unaware it meandered off, and suspect the other didn’t have a leash, collar or any kind of restraint.

The dogs were returned to their home and the ruling so far is the dogs won’t be classified as ‘Dangerous Dogs’  because the pup wasn’t killed, and my daus bites weren’t substantial or life threatening.

Seems to fall under the new US rule that having dogs that attack is an expression of one’s right to free speech. EF that.

[rkj427]

Sad to Hear about that @GaryF. Hoping for the best for you and all involved for speedy recoveries, and I would tend to agree with your assessment based on what you stated.

In the area (subdivision) where I live, no fences, and those with dogs must have them leashed when walking them outdoors.