Causes of Slow Play

[fixyurdivot]

I was just looking at the Titleist website and the retail price of their golf balls... Dayuum!.  It got me to thinking that speed of play is slowing in an inverse relationship with the increasing cost of balls.  At nearly $5 for a ProV1, it's no wonder guys are diving into thickets head first and waist deep. We've discussed and debated lots of other reasons for slow play, but I believe this may be a significant factor. I know even in my own group in Yuma a couple of the guys are hell bent on not losing their balls.  So long as we're not holding up those behind us, I help hunt for as long as we can get away with it, but I have often said "enough, we've gotta move on".  According to the Titleist website, their balls are purchased/played 7x more than the nearest competitor.  I have no reason to doubt that as I find Titleist brand balls by at least 4:1.  Even at $3+/ball, I think more often than not the 5 minutes field hunts are as much to save money as for the stroke.  Thoughts?  

[revkev]

Interesting thought but I’m not buying.

 

The number one cause of slow play is the male ego. A huge percentage of guys are playing from the wrong set of tees and then under club on their approach shots. That adds significant amounts of time to a round. Also guys insist that greens run fast and courses accommodate them. Another time killer.

 

So if the cost of the ball does add time it’s more because guys egos get stoked by playing a 5 ball.

 

 

 

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[NMNM]

My vote for slow play is that the majority of courses are much too hard.

Make the greens a little bigger and flatter, the fairways wider, the holes a bit shorter, and clear out woods in favor of well spaced planted trees.

Choose the bulldozer and explosives over nature where blind shots are concerned.

People who spend time looking for five dollar Pro V1s too often  will turn to balls bought from Dick's pretty quickly.

As for vanity, I always got in more trouble missing long than missing short.

 

 

[null]

It's lack of social awareness and selfishness.

I've played on some short, easy tracks and have had slow rounds. It's people. People are the reason.

[GolfSpy_BNG]

1 minute ago, jlukes said:

It's lack of social awareness and selfishness.

I've played on some short, easy tracks and have had slow rounds. It's people. People are the reason.

I agree with jlukes.  I think slow play has more to do with 3 things.

1. Selfishness.  Too many casual golfers don't care about anybody else on the course.

2. Entitlement.  Blends in with #1.  They paid their money and can play how they WANT to and nobody can tell them otherwise!

3. Lack of Knowledge.  There are plenty of casual golfers that don't know the rules of golf and may or may not care to learn them.

[geez2323]

One the the main reasons is like RevKev said, most golfers think they are better than they are and play the wrongs tees for there level of play. I have been behind 30 handicaps playing the tips slicing or duffing their tee shots 180 yards total. Then they still have 200+ yards for there approach shots waiting for the green to clear, 2% chance they get there at best. So it ends up taking 3/4 shots to get on the green, then the putting begins... lining up every putt like it is the US Open.
Another reason is not many play ready golf. While one player is hitting the other can be getting ready for there shot, or locating their ball. I see it all the time when one player hits while the other sits in the cart, they then go look for the other players ball for 5 min when that player could have been looking already.
I agree with JLukes as well, people think that they paid to play so they can play however they want. There is some awareness needed to make the day enjoyable for all. It is not all about you and you alone.
Another reason here at a few local tracks is no Marshalls or the Marshalls are not willing to encounter a confrontation asking the golfer to pick up their pace.
It is definitely a growing problem in golf.


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[srooch2]

You're all correct!

[NMNM]

I'm not an expert on the subject, and everybody makes very good points.

Still, I know this for certain.

When my  group plays too slowly, it's because we're  hitting the ball too many times.

 

[Alf. S]

People are the problem. Their attitude (or ego if you prefer). Personally I don't mind who is in front of me as long as they adhere to etiquette. If they are looking for a ball let the group behind play thru. If they lose a hole to the group in front again let the group behind play thru.

I seen people running around in front of me trying to hurry up because they are holding my group up then duffing a shot. If they just stopped and thought let the group play thru they would enjoy the game more.

The worst are the ones that are in their own micro bubble just ignore or are unaware of other players around them and no matter how long they take won't let anyone thru.

On the original question of balls being the issue. If you can't afford to lose premium balls then don't play with them and if your losing a lot of premium balls in a round then you're game probably isn't at a level that you need to use the premium ball in the 1st place.

 

 

[PlaidJacket]

It's guys like a lot of us forum members. Me, you, the guys we play with. The groups I play with  can get a little slow at times. Honestly, me and the guys I play with ought to start a rule and that would be READY GOLF!! I really wish we would do that. Our pace of play* would improve and I'd wager we'd shave 30 minutes off a round while still playing at a good pace. However, ready golf probably won't work all that well *unless the majority of players on the course do the same. They won't. We have too many wanna-be Tour Pros at our course. Sound familiar?

 

[NMNM]

Sometimes it feels like I live on a different planet.

Nobody I played with under-clubbed out of vanity.

If they didn't get home, it's because they missed the shot.  That's not under-clubbing.

Nobody spent forever looking for a lost ball. Not at my club.

Maybe "ReadyGolf" would help a little, but i really liked playing in the proper order. Ready Golf seems rushed and crude.

And maybe the seniors with whom I played on quiet weekday mornings didn't have anywhere to be in four hours.

 

But it's another planet, I guess, because the biggest cause of slow play around these parts is bad playing.

Lots of recreational players really suck, and playing like that is slow.

If they're doing the best that they can, and if they're enjoying themselves,

then to me, it seems the best thing to do is shrug your shoulders and wait.

I sucked at first, and then I got down to a seven and played much faster.

And then I got up to a thirteen again and played a little slower.

 

I loved golf, but never played in a big hurry. That's one of the reasons why I loved golf.

You guys can be a tough crowd!

 

 

[GolfSpy_BNG]

11 minutes ago, NiftyNiblick said:

Sometimes it feels like I live on a different planet.

Nobody I played with under-clubbed out of vanity.

If they didn't get home, it's because they missed the shot.  That's not under-clubbing.

Nobody spent forever looking for a lost ball. Not at my club.

Maybe "ReadyGolf" would help a little, but i really liked playing in the proper order. Ready Golf seems rushed and crude.

And maybe the seniors with whom I played on quiet weekday mornings didn't have anywhere to be in four hours.

 

But it's another planet, I guess, because the biggest cause of slow play around these parts is bad playing.

Lots of recreational players really suck, and playing like that is slow.

If they're doing the best that they can, and if they're enjoying themselves,

then to me, it seems the best thing to do is shrug your shoulders and wait.

I sucked at first, and then I got down to a seven and played much faster.

And then I got up to a thirteen again and played a little slower.

 

I loved golf, but never played in a big hurry. That's one of the reasons why I loved golf.

You guys can be a tough crowd!

 

 

I agree with not trying to let it bother me.  The only time I get too worked up is when a group of 4 guys have 4 carts but all drive to each others ball..  Ready golf to me would be for them to driver to their own ball, get their yardages, and then play in the proper order.  I don't believe there is any reason to rush as golf is not that style of game.  I usually play first off on Saturday and Sunday morning.  Normally around 6am or earlier if it is light out.  Saturdays are never a hurry and could take 5 hours for all I care.  However Sunday is fairly hurried so I don't miss church.  

[Mr. 82]

I played with a couple of guys last week that made it their mission in life to hit it into the woods on every hole. So that round slowed to a halt on almost every hole. Then when they did find their ball and get set to hit it, they would spend at least 2 minutes standing over it, addressing it, looking at it from every angle, taking a couple of practice swings, and then maybe they might eventually pull the trigger and hit a shot. And don't get me started on putting. I lost count of the number of times I stood there waiting for either of them to hit a putt and I was thinking to myself, "HIT THE F'ING PUTT ALREADY."

Same deal in a tournament today. I was paired with two other guys, and one of them put three balls OB off of one tee and carded an 11 for the hole. Sure, if this was a casual round I would have told him to pick up after triple bogey. But this was an FSGA event so you have to finish the hole. So much time wasted for his lost balls, or balls we thought MAY have stayed in bounds. The other guy in our threesome took for f'ing ever to hit a shot. And he was so slow to hit a putt as well. Stood over a putt before pulling the trigger for at least a minute. Man, I'm sorry, but I can't stand still that long. I read it, address it, and let it rip. Done in about 20 seconds.

I'll even throw in this little wrinkle. I've played in a handful of these one-day FSGA events, some of them with the 50+ crowd and the under 50 year old crowd, and I'll just tell you that the over 50 crowd plays ready golf and doesn't screw around on the course. The last two weeks I have played with the under 50 crowd, and as I described above, they are incredibly slow and don't play ready golf. So maybe it's not a scientific sample, but the younger you are, the slower you seem to play. I'm 51 now, and I was taught to play ready golf before I ever played an 18 hole round on a regulation course. Dad said hit the 7 iron and just keep hitting it until you hole out. He taught me to play faster than most, and it's ingrained in me. So if I am paired with you and we play together, if the round takes more than 3 hours, don't blame me for that, as the man in the mirror wants a word with you about how slow you played.

As for the comment about the cost of golf balls causing slow play, nah, not the problem. If you are buying ProV1s, you're just stupid IMHO. So many more affordable golf balls of similar or comparable quality. Sure, you probably have an ego too that says I need to play a ProV1. Does this offend you? Hey, I call it like I see it. I'm definitely not rich, and probably cheap by nature. The only time I've bought a dozen ProV1s is when I lost a bet to a buddy and had to pay up. But even then I had those bastards customized with the text "Patriots SUCK!" imprinted on them. Yeah, he got his ProV1s but he has to read that every time he tees them up.

It's also funny too, because my buddy texted me tonight and said he played 9 holes in 42 minutes. My response to him is the same thing I'll say to you guys. Maybe it's time to invent a hybrid game of golf that is sort of like speed golf. You take the total number of strokes for your round, and add in the number of minutes it took for you to play 18 holes, and the lowest score wins. Total time and strokes combined. Would that speed up the game of golf? You tell me. But personally I'd love to see a game like that take off. Sign me up in fact.

[fixyurdivot]

2 hours ago, GSwag said:

It's also funny too, because my buddy texted me tonight and said he played 9 holes in 42 minutes

I'd pull a hamstring at that pace.   Also, it looks like speed golf is already in vogue.

http://www.speedgolfinternational.com/what_is_speedgolf

http://www.usaspeedgolf.com/

[SteddyGolf]

If you go into any golf forum the most talked about topic is pace of play. Even in MGS this subject comes up more than any other subject on the board. Many topics are even opened seemingly unrelated to pace of play but still they find themselves right back on the topic. Although there are numerous folks who are not concerned with the pace of play the overwhelming majority of golfers feel like the pace is much to slow on most courses. So if the majority of folks feel the game should be played faster then who the heck is slowing it down? LOL!

My experience tells me the biggest reason for pace of play issues is poor course management. I’m not talking player management but instead staff management. When you stack tee times 6 to 8 minutes apart you are going to have folks awaiting on every shot regardless of how fast each group moves. As the days shorten in the fall and winter this becomes even more of an issue for management must get as many groups out as they can to maximize profits in fewer hours of operations.

Worldwide Golf statistics tell us an average Par 4 from tee to green takes 13 minutes for a group of four average golfers to complete. If your tee times are 6 to 8 minutes apart this just becomes a bad math equation. The numbers don’t add up. IMHO I think wayward balls are the least of the problem.

Speaking of math. A normal round of golf is 18 holes and if a group adds on average just two additional minutes to each hole (looking for a ball, poor cart management, 50 million practice swings, extended putting routine, alternating shots over ready golf, range finder for every shot, socializing, etc....) we are talking another 40 minutes to complete a round of golf. So how many of the aforementioned behaviors could be eliminated?

Finally I think those of us who play speed golf just need to slow the hell down and manage our expectations. I play as a single more than in groups so I’ve learned my pace is often a problem for the group in front of me so I slow down. I hit more balls, practice chipping on the fairway, go through static practice drills and generally move a little slower. Because I’ve managed my own behavior I am able to keep a comfortable distance behind the group in front of me without making them feel hurried. Oh by the way, their lost Pro V1s often end up in my bag


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[Big money]

When I was a casual golfer slow play always happened. Was out there enjoying the day and cared less how or where the ball went . The more I learn about golf and the swing the faster I play. Whenever I join up with casual golfers they usually take forever playing this game. They are out there just enjoying the scenery. Sadly golf is being intoxicated with a heavy dose of casual golfers now. The avid golfer is a minority 

[djahubes]

Not again!!! Too many threads on pace of play......hit, walk, hit, hole out, repeat. Should not take more than 4 hrs


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[Kanoito]

7 hours ago, djahubes said:

Not again!!! Too many threads on pace of play......hit, walk, hit, hole out, repeat. Should not take more than 4 hrs


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Almost as many threads about technology and jacked-up lofts and balls that go too far

[bullldog]

People! Everyone plays like they are a pro.
Havta take several practice swings, gotta have the exact yardage, even just off the green, have to look @ putt from every angle. Gotta write down all the statistics.

[fixyurdivot]

9 hours ago, Edveed said:

When I was a casual golfer slow play always happened. Was out there enjoying the day and cared less how or where the ball went . The more I learn about golf and the swing the faster I play. Whenever I join up with casual golfers they usually take forever playing this game. They are out there just enjoying the scenery. Sadly golf is being intoxicated with a heavy dose of casual golfers now. The avid golfer is a minority 

This is an interesting theory. When you say avid golfer, I'm presuming you mean he/she plays frequently?  We are currently in the apex of Baby Boomers reaching and or in retirement age.  Quite possible that more and more are taking up or returning too golf. 

[null]

I don't think slow play has anything to do with skill.  I play with plenty of guys that shoot in the 90s and 100s that play fast and I have played with quite a few guys that shoot in the 70s that take forever and have no social awareness.

 

 

[deejaid]

1. Alcohol.

 

Are people on a golf course to play a game of skill, or to get wasted? It’s amazing how much money people will spend on golf club technology to improve their game, only to go to the course and down a beer every other hole. How can you put you best swing on the ball if you are drinking alcohol? Any technological gain made with that brand new club is surely lost by the impaired motor skills due to alcohol consumption.

 

Let me ask the guys that have been around the game awhile, meaning playing in the 1950’s-1980’s. When did drinking during the round start? I grew up playing in PA in the 1980’s and even my alcoholic father waited until after the round to drink. I don’t remember there being any cart girls.

 

2. Distance.

 

The solid modern golf ball and massive oversized drivers have caused new courses to be built ridiculously long. Amateurs then think because they can once in a blue moon hit it 300 yards with that driver that they need to play the tips. The other problem is that 300 yards might be two fairways over. The further the ball goes, the further it goes offline. Now, add in cart golf with two drunken fools driving back and forth across the fairway and you have the perfect recipe for the 5 hour round.

 

 

 

 

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[tony@CIC]

9 hours ago, Edveed said:

When I was a casual golfer slow play always happened. Was out there enjoying the day and cared less how or where the ball went . The more I learn about golf and the swing the faster I play. Whenever I join up with casual golfers they usually take forever playing this game. They are out there just enjoying the scenery. Sadly golf is being intoxicated with a heavy dose of casual golfers now. The avid golfer is a minority 

As a higher handicapper playing with others with indexes between low teens and high 20's, we play pretty fast while enjoying the scenery and the comradery. Yup we're casual golfers (meaning we're not focused on tournament golf), we're fussy about our game and constantly looking to improve but at the end of the day we also realize it is a game.    

[Kanoito]

I play with 2 guys shooting in the 100s and we finish in under 3.5, as a foursome. Sometimes barely over 3 hours.

Skills have nothing to do with pace of play.

[GolfSpy_BNG]

I play with 2 guys shooting in the 100s and we finish in under 3.5, as a foursome. Sometimes barely over 3 hours.
Skills have nothing to do with pace of play.

I agree it doesn’t have anything to do with skill. I play to an 8, my brother in law plays to a 15(if I keep his score ), my father doesn’t have a cap but shoots around 100 as does my uncle and our foursome as 1st off can play 18 in 3 hours or just over. That includes my father and uncle needing every yardage and 50 practice swings!


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[NMNM]

2 hours ago, jlukes said:

I don't think slow play has anything to do with skill.  I play with plenty of guys that shoot in the 90s and 100s that play fast and I have played with quite a few guys that shoot in the 70s that take forever and have no social awareness.

 

 

While I certainly believe you, jlukes, this does not match my personal experience at all.

We'll agree to disagree, because I believe that hitting more shots takes more time than hitting fewer.

The higher the score, the more errant shots that are hard to find, which all adds to the time of play  further.

 

I didn't linger forever over shots and putts because that didn't help me execute them any better. 

GPS and rangefinders came out very late in my golf life, so nobody spent excessive time with those.

I obsessed over golf etiquette because I'm unfortunately somewhat of a stuffed shirt who obsesses over all etiquette.

But because I never really suffered over slow golf, 

and never felt that 4 hours was a practical, real world standard, at least in New England,

I have what I feel is a very objective, impersonal, or if not those, at least different opinion of what causes it.

 

Anyway, if I were building a golf course, I would instruct the architect to think "fast play."

Shorter length, wider fairways, bigger and flatter greens, shallower and fluffier bunkers,

most woods cleared to make way for loosely spaced planted trees,

few if any forced carries, and no blind shots.

Some players would scoff at a soft course like that.

Especially many who frequent internet forums.

But the traffic on it would keep the cash register ringing like a pinball machine.

I'm certain of that.  In fact, I've seen it.

 

 

[NM01]

The lack of course etiquette including how to play ready golf. Playing the wrong tees and trying the hero shot are the biggest reasons for slow play imo. The cost of the ball has nothing to do with it as I’ve seen guys spend as much time looking for a Nike mojo as a prov1.  

[deejaid]

I have a radical idea. How about the Pro Shop issues you balls based on the tees you are planning on playing? Playing the front tees? You get 9 balls. Middle tees? 6 balls. Back tees? 3 balls. Lose all your balls and you are done for the day.

I’m sure people would play the proper tees then


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[pulledabill]

I play solo quite often and will lay back and watch how slow and fast play happens. 

 

Fast players play ready golf while slow players dont. 

If you cant hit a reasonable % of fairways and greens, please dont use a laser! 

Egos and attitudes. There are a couple foursomes on my course that play in the evening like i do. Aint no way in hell are they letting anybody through as they all appear to think they are actually fast players when they are actually painfuly slow and rude. 

$$ games on my course are slow as the maintain etiquete the whole way. 

[russtopherb]

Dumb play is a main cause of slow play.

I was once in a group of 4 stuck behind a twosome that refused to let us play through. Mulligans on almost every tee shot. Duffed wedges. 3 minutes to line up 1 putt.

Put your ego in check, play the right tee, and accept the fact that everyone else ALSO paid their greens fee and don’t want to sit waiting behind you.


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