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fixyurdivot
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So the result of my bag fitting yesterday is to re-shaft my G410's (4-UW) with ACCRA ICWT for; +0.1 mph BS, +3.2 mph CHS, +8.3 yards carry, - 3.3 yards dispersion, and -360 rpm spin for $1535.00? 😲 

None of the other club head or shaft combinations (steel and composite) outperformed the Nippon AWT 2.0/G410 I'm bagging... except the ACCRA.  I've never heard of them or Drago; the shaft that was in second place of the composite options.

So I just dropped the news on my wife and she said "just for the shafts?" 😁.  I've taken all the performance gains above and cranked them into a half dozen new math formulas to see if makes sense... so far it doesn't.  I'm curious for those who have opted to choose the aftermarket shaft route, what magnitude in performance gains you had?  +8.3 yards isn't peanuts but $192/club installed isn't either.

Lastly, to those on the forum who are composite shaft specialists, do any lower price, OEM upgrade shafts come to mind that might be very close to the ACCRA ICWT?

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:ping-small: G410 Plus, 9 Degree Driver 

:ping-small: G400 SFT, 16 Degree 3w

:ping-small: G400 SFT, 19 Degree 5w

:srixon-small:  ZX5 Irons 4-AW 

:ping-small: Glide 2.0 56 Degree SW   (removed from double secret probation 😍)

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43 minutes ago, Kenny B said:

😱

Yeah, and that's only the half of it... quite literally.  Add in the replacement shaft for my G410P driver and the replacement TSi2 woods and shafts, and we're north of $3000.00.  

image.png.7d5a5a547a1680a28dd70ce3c6a5d833.png

Moreover, they did not have the correct adapter so that we could not baseline my G400 3w and 5w with that same upgrade shaft.  It may have competed well with the TSi2 and I would definitely want to have that data as part of making a decision.

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:ping-small: G410 Plus, 9 Degree Driver 

:ping-small: G400 SFT, 16 Degree 3w

:ping-small: G400 SFT, 19 Degree 5w

:srixon-small:  ZX5 Irons 4-AW 

:ping-small: Glide 2.0 56 Degree SW   (removed from double secret probation 😍)

:EVNROLL: ER5v Putter  (Evnroll ER5v Official Review)

 

 

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24 minutes ago, fixyurdivot said:

Yeah, and that's only the half of it... quite literally.  Add in the replacement shaft for my G410P driver and the replacement TSi2 woods and shafts, and we're north of $3000.00.  

image.png.7d5a5a547a1680a28dd70ce3c6a5d833.png

Moreover, they did not have the correct adapter so that we could not baseline my G400 3w and 5w with that same upgrade shaft.  It may have competed well with the TSi2 and I would definitely want to have that data as part of making a decision.

No matter what everyone else says about you Bill, you are worth it.  😄

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8 minutes ago, Kenny B said:

No matter what everyone else says about you Bill, you are worth it.  😄

Well, not sure about that but appreciate the sentiment.  I did just find this article by Matt Saternus on the subject and my data pretty much falls in line with this testing (I find that cool).  The "whippy/flexy" attribute is what I quickly saw as the difference in feel between my CB Alta Red and those I tested on the driver.  Of course the article mentions nothing about the "are they worth it" question... so no help there.

Are Aftermarket Shafts Better Than Stock Shafts? - Golf Myths Unplugged - Plugged In Golf

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:ping-small: G410 Plus, 9 Degree Driver 

:ping-small: G400 SFT, 16 Degree 3w

:ping-small: G400 SFT, 19 Degree 5w

:srixon-small:  ZX5 Irons 4-AW 

:ping-small: Glide 2.0 56 Degree SW   (removed from double secret probation 😍)

:EVNROLL: ER5v Putter  (Evnroll ER5v Official Review)

 

 

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2 minutes ago, fixyurdivot said:

Well, not sure about that but appreciate the sentiment.  I did just find this article by Matt Saternus on the subject and my data pretty much falls in line with this testing (I find that cool).  The "whippy/flexy" attribute is what I quickly saw as the difference in feel between my CB Alta Red and those I tested on the driver.  Of course the article mentions nothing about the "are they worth it" question... so no help there.

Are Aftermarket Shafts Better Than Stock Shafts? - Golf Myths Unplugged - Plugged In Golf

Matt was GolfSpy Matt back when I joined.  

His test results are not surprising, but it was only two shafts.  I wouldn't make those claims only testing two shafts.

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I see that they put you in the KBS TD shaft.  You can find way south of $375;  I bought mine on ebay for $80.  You can easily find them in the $150-175 range.   

You are definitely on the high end range of iron shafts with Accra and VA Composites.    What shafts did you try?

 

 

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Driver:  :ping-small: G400 Max 9* w/ KBS Tour Driven
Fairway: :titelist-small: TS3 15* set  to 16.5* w/Project X Hzardous Smoke
Hybrids:  :titelist-small: 816H1 19* set at 18* w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype
                :titelist-small: 915H  21*  w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype
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2 hours ago, fixyurdivot said:

So the result of my bag fitting yesterday is to re-shaft my G410's (4-UW) with ACCRA ICWT for; +0.1 mph BS, +3.2 mph CHS, +8.3 yards carry, - 3.3 yards dispersion, and -360 rpm spin for $1535.00? 😲 

None of the other club head or shaft combinations (steel and composite) outperformed the Nippon AWT 2.0/G410 I'm bagging... except the ACCRA.  I've never heard of them or Drago; the shaft that was in second place of the composite options.

So I just dropped the news on my wife and she said "just for the shafts?" 😁.  I've taken all the performance gains above and cranked them into a half dozen new math formulas to see if makes sense... so far it doesn't.  I'm curious for those who have opted to choose the aftermarket shaft route, what magnitude in performance gains you had?  +8.3 yards isn't peanuts but $192/club installed isn't either.

Lastly, to those on the forum who are composite shaft specialists, do any lower price, OEM upgrade shafts come to mind that might be very close to the ACCRA ICWT?

$192 per club just for the shaft + installation in your existing club heads? What weight and flex for the Accras?

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How much for new clubs with these shafts? Then sell your old set? I re-shafted my irons at CC of all places, and it wasn’t anywhere near that price. How much is the shaft alone and how much is labor? Did you pick a stock grip or was that an up charge too?


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24CC2B3B-0E46-4165-97D1-F1CA4C5041C8.png

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Accra's are some of the best shafts out there right now and VA Composites are very good as well.  Per Ian at TXG - he recently has said Accra has the tightest discrepancies among any golf shaft manufacturer right now.  With that said - DO NOT buy a build from Club Champion/TrueSpec/etc...unless you want to pay triple what is really needed.  It might take a bit more work, but you can find a way to get everything you need at a reasonable price with a bit of buy/sell and research.  

Accra shafts are pricey, but I think you could do much better than 192 per club all in if you look elsewhere.  You might even keep an eye out to see if you can find them in another set.  Easy to do a shaft pull and replace in your heads.  Sometimes you can really save some dollars that way.

 

Edited by juspoole
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Driver:  image.png.3c6db1120d888f669e07d4a8f890b3f1.pngMavrik Sub Zero 9* (Set to 10) Ventus Blue 6X

2 Hybrid: :titelist-small: 818 H2 Hybrid Tensei Blue 80 X

3 Hybrid: :titelist-small: TSI3 Smoke Black RDX

4 Iron - Srixon ZX 23* Recoil F5

Irons 5-PW: :mizuno-small: MP 18 SC Dynamic Gold AMT X

Gap/Sand Wedge:  :titelist-small: Vokey SM6 49*  SM8 54* 

Lob Wedge:  image.png.3c6db1120d888f669e07d4a8f890b3f1.pngJaws 5 Wedge 58* DG Tour Issue Stiff

Putter:   :scotty-small: Phantom 5.5 34"      Pro Platinum Newport 2 35"      Taylormade Tour Black Spider 34"

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Can you source the shafts from somewhere else and have a local shop build them? Has to be somewhat cheaper

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Driver: PXG 0811 X+ Proto w/UST Helium 5F4

Wood: TaylorMade M5 5W w/Accra TZ5 +1/2”, TaylorMade Sim 3W w/Aldila rogue white

Hybrid: PXG Gen2 22* w/AD hybrid

Irons: PXG Gen3 0311T w/Nippon modus 120

Wedges: TaylorMade MG2 50*, Tiger grind 56/60

Putter: Scotty Caemeron Super Rat1

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59 minutes ago, cnosil said:

I see that they put you in the KBS TD shaft.  You can find way south of $375;  I bought mine on ebay for $80.  You can easily find them in the $150-175 range.   

You are definitely on the high end range of iron shafts with Accra and VA Composites.    What shafts did you try?

 

 

In the composites for irons; Steelfiber i80, Accra, and KBS TGI 70.  I was really hopeful on the Steelfiber going in as I've heard so many positives but they and the KBS just did not perform well.  In steel, we tried DG300 95, and KBS Tour - none of which performed better than my gamers (Nippon AWT2.0).  

I tested the Mavrik, TS300, D7, Cobra Forge-Tec, and P790 heads.  The Mavrik competed well and maybe slightly better than the G410 and the T300 close behind.  The D7 was not good at all. The Mavrik really felt nice and would make my short list ... as many on the forum gasp for air 😱 🤣.

(note; this picture has the driver and wood shafts we tested).

image.png.2bf9f4bb7f15a25eb9796e66750fbdef.png

Sounds like I should be able to find these shafts and get them installed for much less with a little leg work.

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:ping-small: G410 Plus, 9 Degree Driver 

:ping-small: G400 SFT, 16 Degree 3w

:ping-small: G400 SFT, 19 Degree 5w

:srixon-small:  ZX5 Irons 4-AW 

:ping-small: Glide 2.0 56 Degree SW   (removed from double secret probation 😍)

:EVNROLL: ER5v Putter  (Evnroll ER5v Official Review)

 

 

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18 minutes ago, fixyurdivot said:

In the composites for irons; Steelfiber i80, Accra, and KBS TGI 70.  I was really hopeful on the Steelfiber going in as I've heard so many positives but they and the KBS just did not perform well.  In steel, we tried DG300 95, and KBS Tour - none of which performed better than my gamers (Nippon AWT2.0).  

I tested the Mavrik, TS300, D7, Cobra Forge-Tec, and P790 heads.  The Mavrik competed well and maybe slightly better than the G410 and the T300 close behind.  The D7 was not good at all. The Mavrik really felt nice and would make my short list ... as many on the forum gasp for air 😱 🤣.

(note; this picture has the driver and wood shafts we tested).

image.png.2bf9f4bb7f15a25eb9796e66750fbdef.png

Sounds like I should be able to find these shafts and get them installed for much less with a little leg work.

Check billybobsgolf, Dallas golf, peoples clubs for the shafts. Peoples should be able to do the reshaft too.

 

 

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Driver: PXG 0811 X+ Proto w/UST Helium 5F4

Wood: TaylorMade M5 5W w/Accra TZ5 +1/2”, TaylorMade Sim 3W w/Aldila rogue white

Hybrid: PXG Gen2 22* w/AD hybrid

Irons: PXG Gen3 0311T w/Nippon modus 120

Wedges: TaylorMade MG2 50*, Tiger grind 56/60

Putter: Scotty Caemeron Super Rat1

Ball: Titleist Prov1

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Just looked up the Accra's and found them for $85 a shaft. 

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Driver:  :ping-small: G400 Max 9* w/ KBS Tour Driven
Fairway: :titelist-small: TS3 15* set  to 16.5* w/Project X Hzardous Smoke
Hybrids:  :titelist-small: 816H1 19* set at 18* w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype
                :titelist-small: 915H  21*  w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype
               :titelist-small: 915H 24*  w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype
Irons:      :honma:TR20V 6-11 w/Vizard TR20-85 Graphite
Wedge:  :callaway-small: 54-10S   :cleveland-small: 588  58-12
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3 hours ago, fixyurdivot said:

Yeah, and that's only the half of it... quite literally.  Add in the replacement shaft for my G410P driver and the replacement TSi2 woods and shafts, and we're north of $3000.00.  

image.png.7d5a5a547a1680a28dd70ce3c6a5d833.png

Moreover, they did not have the correct adapter so that we could not baseline my G400 3w and 5w with that same upgrade shaft.  It may have competed well with the TSi2 and I would definitely want to have that data as part of making a decision.

I have the KBS TD 50 cat 3 in my ping g400sft It was a game changer for my driving 

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:ping-small: G400 SFT 10. KBS TD 50 Category 3 shaft 

:cobra-small: King Speedzone Black Yellow Fairway 3 wood Tensei AV Blue 65 

:cobra-small: F9 SpeedBack Black Grey Fairway 5 Wood   :Fuji: ATMOS Tour Spec Blue 7 shaft

:taylormade-small: 3 Rescue Hybrid

:mizuno-small: JPX 900 Hot Metal 5 - GW Project X Lz 4.5 Regular Flex Graphite 

:ping-small:   Glide 2.0 SS Wedges 54 & 58 

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12 hours ago, Nolan220 said:

I have the KBS TD 50 cat 3 in my ping g400sft It was a game changer for my driving 

Thanks for the feedback. This "best of the driver shafts" is yielding 9+ additional yards in carry.  That's more than I saw in my H2H test between the G410P and the Razr Fit it replaced during my MGS Tester Review (~4+ yards).  So I think that is significant enough to pursue; particularly since I will likely be able to get that shaft for much less and it's a plug & play. If it dosen't produce I can always sell it and re-install the Alta CB.  He did have me hit the Mavrik driver with the KBS shaft (did not perform as well) and we talked about a couple of others but he said the G410 was a great match.  We discussed shorter length but he said my club at impact numbers were very good and felt the current length was optimum.

Too bad irons don't have the similar shaft attachment system as woods - that would really open up the floodgate for experimentation. 👍

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:ping-small: G410 Plus, 9 Degree Driver 

:ping-small: G400 SFT, 16 Degree 3w

:ping-small: G400 SFT, 19 Degree 5w

:srixon-small:  ZX5 Irons 4-AW 

:ping-small: Glide 2.0 56 Degree SW   (removed from double secret probation 😍)

:EVNROLL: ER5v Putter  (Evnroll ER5v Official Review)

 

 

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2 minutes ago, fixyurdivot said:

Thanks for the feedback. This "best of the driver shafts" is yielding 9+ additional yards in carry.  That's more than I saw in my H2H test between the G410P and the Razr Fit it replaced during my MGS Tester Review (~4+ yards).  So I think that is significant enough to pursue; particularly since I will likely be able to get that shaft for much less and it's a plug & play. If it dosen't produce I can always sell it and re-install the Alta CB.  He did have me hit the Mavrik driver with the KBS shaft (did not perform as well) and we talked about a couple of others but he said the G410 was a great match.  We discussed shorter length but he said my club at impact numbers were very good and felt the current length was optimum.

Too bad irons don't have the similar shaft attachment system as woods - that would really open up the floodgate for experimentation. 👍

Thats great, yeah I gained carry yards but my biggest thing was the dispersion all within like 7-10 yards of each other, something like that I did the fitting last Jan so hard to remember, but out of all the shafts I tried that was the clear winner .. and funniest part the fitter was like hmm let me try this one after I tried 4-5 shafts and he was like wow I didn;t think this would beat out the Hzrdus smoke shaft .. 

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:ping-small: G400 SFT 10. KBS TD 50 Category 3 shaft 

:cobra-small: King Speedzone Black Yellow Fairway 3 wood Tensei AV Blue 65 

:cobra-small: F9 SpeedBack Black Grey Fairway 5 Wood   :Fuji: ATMOS Tour Spec Blue 7 shaft

:taylormade-small: 3 Rescue Hybrid

:mizuno-small: JPX 900 Hot Metal 5 - GW Project X Lz 4.5 Regular Flex Graphite 

:ping-small:   Glide 2.0 SS Wedges 54 & 58 

:taylormade-small: TP Red White Ardmore Putter

:918457628_PrecisionPro:Precision Pro NX7 range finder 

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25 minutes ago, Nolan220 said:

Thats great, yeah I gained carry yards but my biggest thing was the dispersion all within like 7-10 yards of each other, something like that I did the fitting last Jan so hard to remember, but out of all the shafts I tried that was the clear winner .. and funniest part the fitter was like hmm let me try this one after I tried 4-5 shafts and he was like wow I didn;t think this would beat out the Hzrdus smoke shaft .. 

Yes, that's the fun thing about the fitting process and having a good cross-section of options - when one just pops out and say's "look no further" 😎.  Out of curiosity, what is your driver swing speed?  The KBS shaft is an R but 50g and my Alta CB an S and 55g.  I recall being on the fence between S & R flex when being fitted for the PING but we went with S as it was (based on range ball hitting) yielding less dispersion.

I was just watching a YT video last night with PING and 2nd Swing about PING's standard shaft options and how they are now the only OEM that still co-develops their shafts with shaft mfg.'s for stock options. I've heard many say their Alta series are really good shafts.  This makes me wonder about the "shaft lottery" (quality) point the fitter made.

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:ping-small: G410 Plus, 9 Degree Driver 

:ping-small: G400 SFT, 16 Degree 3w

:ping-small: G400 SFT, 19 Degree 5w

:srixon-small:  ZX5 Irons 4-AW 

:ping-small: Glide 2.0 56 Degree SW   (removed from double secret probation 😍)

:EVNROLL: ER5v Putter  (Evnroll ER5v Official Review)

 

 

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18 hours ago, fixyurdivot said:

....... +8.3 yards isn't peanuts but $192/club installed isn't either.

.......

I've got a solution that gets you the 8.3 yards and saves you $1500......

Check the yardage for the shot & hit one more club than you do now !!!🤣   

...says the guy with an aftermarket Accra in his driver and reshafted his irons with Proj X LZ's....    😵

If you can do your own shafting work you can save big bucks on that $1500, then resell the shafts you took out to make back a little more $.  If they started putting adapters on iron shafts I'd be divorced probably.   😜

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Modern Bag:  Ping G410+ 9*, Accra TourZ X265 M5;  Snake Eyes 15*, 18* & 23* Hybrids; Mizuno JPX 900 Forged 5 - PW, PX LZ 6.0;  Cleveland Tour Action 49*, 53*, 57*; PX LZ 6.5 ;  Ping Heppler Fetch;  Ball - Snell MTB-X; Bag - Sun Mountain H2NO 

Classic Bag:  Driver - Wilson Staff Persimmon; 3w - Hogan Speed Slot; 5w - Wilson Staff Tour Block; 3 - pw - Staff Dynapower; sw - Ram Tom Watson;  putter - bullseye standard or flange.

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14 minutes ago, fixyurdivot said:

Yes, that's the fun thing about the fitting process and having a good cross-section of options - when one just pops out and say's "look no further" 😎.  Out of curiosity, what is your driver swing speed?  The KBS shaft is an R but 70 g and my Alta CB an S and 55g.  I recall being on the fence between S & R flex when being fitted for the PING but we went with S as it was (based on range ball hitting) yielding less dispersion.

I was just watching a YT video last night with PING and 2nd Swing about PING's standard shaft options and how they are now the only OEM that still co-develops their shafts with shaft mfg.'s for stock options. I've heard many say their Alta series are really good shafts.  This makes me wonder about the "shaft lottery" (quality) point the fitter made.

MY swing speed at the fitting was 94 , so I was fitted with the S at 50g  cat 3 so that has like mid trajectory .. I tend to hit high with a lot of spin, I believe I was like 3500 + and the KBS help dropped the spin to under 3000 and closer to 2600 during the fitting, this is all off the top of my head so I hopefully it makes sense..

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:ping-small: G400 SFT 10. KBS TD 50 Category 3 shaft 

:cobra-small: King Speedzone Black Yellow Fairway 3 wood Tensei AV Blue 65 

:cobra-small: F9 SpeedBack Black Grey Fairway 5 Wood   :Fuji: ATMOS Tour Spec Blue 7 shaft

:taylormade-small: 3 Rescue Hybrid

:mizuno-small: JPX 900 Hot Metal 5 - GW Project X Lz 4.5 Regular Flex Graphite 

:ping-small:   Glide 2.0 SS Wedges 54 & 58 

:taylormade-small: TP Red White Ardmore Putter

:918457628_PrecisionPro:Precision Pro NX7 range finder 

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