Why do people want irons to go far?

[pakman92]

Why do people want irons that go very long?   I just had my p790s weakened (2 deg 5i-8i and 1 deg 9i).  I had to do this as 5 iron was going the same distance as my hybrid.  Top of my bag is well set and gapped nicely.   Original lofts basically made my 5 iron 1/2 club too long and widened the gapping in the rest of the irons.   While I was travelling a few weeks ago, I had a chance to play using rental clubs at a course.  The irons were Srixon ZX4.   I'm not sure on the lofts on ZX4s but there were going even further than my p790s.

So, why do we want big distances from irons?  Or is it that manufacturers are simply taking up distance even though that probably not great for many of the golfers.    Big distances from irons create gapping issues like I had.    I know I can get lofts that suit me better when I go to playing less forgiving clubs.  But, I still need forgivess in terms of consistency of distance, not additional distance. 

More manufacturers are offering custom lofts and 'retro' lofts which is good to see.      

[DaveP043]

2 minutes ago, pakman92 said:

So, why do we want big distances from irons?

Because distance sells, whether it leads to improved scores or not.

 

[YourKillingMeSmalls]

4 minutes ago, pakman92 said:

Why do people want irons that go very long?   I just had my p790s weakened (2 deg 5i-8i and 1 deg 9i).  I had to do this as 5 iron was going the same distance as my hybrid.  Top of my bag is well set and gapped nicely.   Original lofts basically made my 5 iron 1/2 club too long and widened the gapping in the rest of the irons.   While I was travelling a few weeks ago, I had a chance to play using rental clubs at a course.  The irons were Srixon ZX4.   I'm not sure on the lofts on ZX4s but there were going even further than my p790s.

So, why do we want big distances from irons?  Or is it that manufacturers are simply taking up distance even though that probably not great for many of the golfers.    Big distances from irons create gapping issues like I had.    I know I can get lofts that suit me better when I go to playing less forgiving clubs.  But, I still need forgivess in terms of consistency of distance, not additional distance. 

More manufacturers are offering custom lofts and 'retro' lofts which is good to see.      

Agree, I just want consistency and to know my yardages are going to stay true during moments of pressure.

[RickyBobby_PR]

24 minutes ago, pakman92 said:

So, why do we want big distances from irons?  Or is it that manufacturers are simply taking up distance even though that probably not great for many of the golfers.    Big distances from irons create gapping issues like I had.    I know I can get lofts that suit me better when I go to playing less forgiving clubs.  But, I still need forgivess in terms of consistency of distance, not additional distance.

There are different reasons for what’s happening with club design.

In general distance sells. The average golfer wants to hit their clubs as far as they go and don’t really look at anything else. 
 

To me it doesn’t matter the distance the ball goes as long as it goes that distance consistently on the same strike. If I hit it towards the toe and it loses 5 yards I want that to be consistent every time I hit it on the toe. Same for full compresses shots or those that are on the sweet spot but I may not have fully compressed the ball.

I also prefer to hit an iron over a hybrid do if I need to drop something at the top of the bag I’m fine with that and would fill my gap at the bottom. All my capping is based on my 9i both going into wedges and also to the top of the bag. I’ve never gapped from the top down.

Then there’s the design. As people age swing speed drops and it becomes harder to get the ball in the air and have it land at the proper angle to stop in the green.  This is talked about in this video

 

[pakman92]

1 minute ago, Riverboat said:

As you get older, your opinion may change. Putting less loft on a shorter shaft allows more distance without the loss of control inherent in a longer shaft. I don't care what number they put on there, but the irons that worked for me when I was young were failing me badly as I aged. I hit them too high with too much spin... That equals not only way less distance, but less control. When I bought my new pxgs, they traveled nearly two clubs longer, but more importantly had a more penetrating flight with less spin. Shafts were the same lengths as my old irons, but they are more forgiving, so I had better control with way more distance. I went from averaging 6 GIR to 10.

I find it funny that people who rage against lower lifted irons constantly say why do you care what number is on the club...I don't. But clearly those who are so offended by the lower lofts do!!! They say just hit a lower numbered club. Is that any different than me telling you to just hit a higher numbered club? And don't give me the tradition argument, or I'll tell you you should still be hitting mashies and niblicks, not numbered clubs. You equate the numbers on your irons to loft numbers, but it's not wrong to equate them more with shaft lengths.

The point is, you find a set that works for you, and I'll find one that works for me. When you are young with high swing speeds, you can hit it high and long, so more loft is not an issue. As you age or if you have slower swing speeds, there are huge benefits to lower lofts on traditional length shafts. Find what works for you and stop being so concerned with what's in others' bags.

I agree with you about # printed on the head not being important.  I couldn't care less either.   I need irons to cover 120yds - 180yds carry spaced out evenly.   Before weakening the lofts, I used 6 iron - PW (5 clubs) spread out with ~14 yd gaps.   With adjusted lofts, I have an additional club, 5 iron - PW (6 clubs) spread with tighter gaps (~11 yds).  That's all.    Everyone's needs are different.   There must be a set of folks who like playing 'player distance' or 'game improvement' irons for consistency of distance across the face, but feel that they go too far and wish that they were offered in weaker lofts with about 4 degree gaps.

 

[tony@CIC]

39 minutes ago, DaveP043 said:

Because distance sells, 

Friend of mine who is an occasional golfer got a new set of irons to replace his really old ones. He had commented how much further his new 7i went. I asked him what the loft difference was between the new vs old ones - he had no idea. He was just convinced new vs old was better. 

[RickyBobby_PR]

4 minutes ago, tony@CIC said:

Friend of mine who is an occasional golfer got a new set of irons to replace his really old ones. He had commented how much further his new 7i went. I asked him what the loft difference was between the new vs old ones - he had no idea. He was just convinced new vs old was better. 

As at so many along with the ones who ask about what club you hit on a par 3 so they can compare with what they are hitting while not knowing that lofts aren’t equal in every cloud nor is length. 

[GolfSpy TCB]

In my own bag... I have noticed that with some of the "players distance" irons I have played... I have several irons that go essentially the same distances.  Part of that is my aging swing speed, but also I attribute some of it to the jacked lofts.  I used to be able to play a "2 iron" as a regular club in my bag... in the current loft configurations, that is bordering on a "4 iron".  So by hitting a current strong lofted 2 iron (if they even exist) - would that be the same as a "0 iron" it traditional lofts?  I'm being a bit facetious, but there really has been an evolution in marketing to the average golfer, and the promises for better distance - and they count on the majority of the buyers to "not look behind the curtain" or at least, accept the new lofts associated with the number on the club.  I'm with @Pakman92 ... I need my wedges and irons to give me consistent 8-10 yard full swing gaps between 80 and 160.  From there I let the hybrids and woods take over.   

This past weekend, I had a person in my group asked me what club I hit into a par 3... I said "31 degree".  He looked at me like I was from another planet.  haha.  

[RickyBobby_PR]

16 minutes ago, Tiftaaft said:

but also I attribute some of it to the jacked lofts. 

It means you aren’t generating enough speed to get the proper launch and therefore distances are going to be quite close as the clubs get longer. This is where people add hybrids or fairway woods to help get the ball in the air easier. 

[pakman92]

48 minutes ago, Tiftaaft said:

...

This past weekend, I had a person in my group asked me what club I hit into a par 3... I said "31 degree".  He looked at me like I was from another planet.  haha.  

I like that.  I'm gonna have to say that next time someone asks. 

[GolfSpy TCB]

1 hour ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

It means you aren’t generating enough speed to get the proper launch and therefore distances are going to be quite close as the clubs get longer. This is where people add hybrids or fairway woods to help get the ball in the air easier. 

yup.  exactly.

And why my lowest loft iron currently is a 6 iron... and I'm even considering leaving that in the "home" bag.  Swing speed degradation... no question, no argument here.   I could get acceptable gapping with the 6, 5 and maybe 4 using traditional lofts... my point was looking at stamped iron numbers... for someone that isn't aware of the actual loft, might be mis-led by thinking they can hit their old traditional set 3 iron, but struggle with the new distance models using the same 3 iron as a direct comparison.  Not to mention the possible shaft length difference...  

My approach, and what I would suggest to anyone that asks me (which is nobody), start with the wedges and gap the clubs one by one using average carry distances, until the gap difference drops to 5 or less yards... and take that iron and everything above it out of the bag.  Fill the gaps with hybrids and woods... as you suggested RB.

 

Edited March 21, 2022 by Tiftaaft

[chisag]

7 hours ago, pakman92 said:

Why do people want irons that go very long? 

 

... For the same reason they make SGI's with huge soles, thick top lines and strong lofts. Or Players CB's with thin soles, narrow top lines and weaker lofts. Or a full set of hybrids with wood like distances. Because there are players that can benefit from every type of iron made today. 

... I get a kick out of those that say they want accuracy from their irons NOT distance. Well, if they hit their Players Iron PW 90 yds and their 5 iron 140yds they may wish for some distance with their accuracy. Iron play is about covering distances and it is not uncommon to have some gaps at either end of the bag, depending on your strengths and ability. I will play a set of Players Distance Irons when they arrive next month and will be interested to see if the '22 Forged Tecs suit me better than my Tour MIM's. My current 4 iron is my 190-195 club and if I could get that up to 200-205 it would open up my bag for some other clubs. I could play both a hybrid and a DI at the same time without worrying about course and wind. But I will need enough spin to hold hard and fast desert greens and as you mentioned I really wish they had 4* gaps not 5* in the scoring clubs. I also expect the yardage to be incremental with the scoring irons similar to hat I play now or a few yards longer with the distance increasing as the number on the sole drops. If I simply hit all the FT's 10 yds farther than my MIM's that means I would just have to add another wedge. 

... I play with strangers quite a bit and when they ask me what iron I hit I just tell them. I don't bother saying but you are playing PXG XP's so lofts are radically different and judging by how you hit the ball, my club choice is completely irrelevant. And perhaps some the play with the same group get some comments about how far they hit their new iron but I can count on one hand how many strangers "bragged" about what iron they hit. After all if I hit a 6 iron into a slight breeze on a 160yd par 3 and have a 15 foot birdie putt and they hit a 7 iron over the green, there really isn't much to brag about is there? Score beats distance every time.  

[fixyurdivot]

Distance is like speed and plays right into the male DNA.  It's why you'll never see an ad for the new (pick your favorite brand) driver or iron that "is short and unforgiving" .  Speaking about the more recent loft options (retro/standard/power), it would be interesting to see the breakdown from the various OEM's, offering irons with these loft options, as to who is buying what.  My guess is that the less informed, never been fitted, are picking the power option.

[tony@CIC]

7 hours ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

As at so many along with the ones who ask about what club you hit on a par 3 so they can compare with what they are hitting while not knowing that lofts aren’t equal in every cloud nor is length. 

Yeah I'll always tell them I'm hitting my 22* or 26* hybrid just to see if it sinks in . 

[ChuckZ]

All I care about when I pull a club is that it is going to go the distance, or close to, I am reading on my Bushnell.  My clubs are gapped in the 10-15 yard range.  I am not a pro and if I can get the ball within a reasonable putting range, golf is good at my age.  Golf is about course management, not always going for broke on every shot.  Unless you are tin cup.  

[Hook DeLoft]

I want my irons to be more forgiving. These days it’s hard to find a forgiving iron that doesn’t have strong lofts.  Which is a problem for me since I don’t generate enough launch or spin. 

[Hook DeLoft]

1 hour ago, tony@CIC said:

Yeah I'll always tell them I'm hitting my 22* or 26* hybrid just to see if it sinks in . 

A few years ago I was playing with a good player who was hitting AP2 irons. He hit 8 iron on a par 3 and another guy using very strong lofted irons also hit 8 iron and was over the moon that he hit the “ same” club as the good player.  I pointed out the differences in loft but he didn’t care. I think he thought I was being a jerk. Perhaps I was. 

[dlow206]

i do want to maximize the distances i get out of my irons given other parameters are acceptable, such as spin, descent angle, etc. i would always prefer hitting a short iron in than a long iron. 

[Kenms]

I just played a round of golf with someone who hit his ping 5 iron around 200 yards. Of course i discovered that that iron is lofted nearly the same as my 3 iron. I guess that's why golf club sets only go up to the 4 or 5 irons. But, they cost the same as the old conventional 3i to PW sets. Then you pay extra for a couple of hybrids, fairway woods and in many cases extra wedges. They got you coming and going. 

[Middler]

21 hours ago, DaveP043 said:

Because distance sells, whether it leads to improved scores or not.

21 hours ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

There are different reasons for what’s happening with club design.

In general distance sells. The average golfer wants to hit their clubs as far as they go and don’t really look at anything else. 

End of story.

This forum audience isn’t at all typical of the mainstream of golf, even including quite a few low HI players.

At least 90% of players don’t have any idea what their lofts are, or how much they vary nowadays (more than ever). It’s probably easier to be a fitter for that 90% of uninformed players, who will buy “more distance” without asking any questions - I play with guys like that every day. They don’t want to know otherwise, so I don’t bother, I have no need to burst their bubble. It is amusing to hear them excitedly tell their friends how much further they hit their new (for example) Mavrik Max irons…

I care about longer distance with my driver, but that doesn’t vary much from brand to brand if you’re fitted at all. For the rest of my clubs I want to know exactly how far they go, with reasonable gaps, not how can I hit them 5-10 yards longer.

[RickyBobby_PR]

1 hour ago, Riverboat said:

I like your comment, but with my new pxg's, I got more consistent results, more consistent gapping, AND way more distance. It at least sounds like there are quite a few people who would pass on all the positives because they are offended by the lower lofts and more distance. That is just silly in my book. Makes no difference to me if they call the clubs 3-pw or 5- sw if they are simply better clubs. And the fact that each one is 79 bucks right now is icing on the cake.

It happens on the golf course all day every day. Golfers swinging at 100% on every swing with every club. The goal is to hit the ball as far as the can with every shot. Many don’t take into account pin location, distance to the front, back, middle of the green and where the ball should land and where they can miss. They laser the flag get whatever yardage and pull the club for that yards. Even though they may have only ever carried a ball with that club that exact yardage a couple times in their life. They don’t plan on rollout, everything is based on total distance and not carry.

From the perspective of anyone who understands scoring, course management and so on it may seem silly but when you consider most golfers don’t keep a handicap, are out for the social aspect more than getting better at the game it makes total sense