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Taylormade SIM drivers - Thoughts?


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This may be the first MGS thread to ever be d back to back Harlen Ellison and Matrix references. 🤪

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I wonder if people are underwhelmed when car companies release a car model every year. Or phone every year. Or anything every year.  This isn't about drastic improvements over the previous year.

I guess I'll just post my first impressions in this thread instead of making another thread with the same subject matter. My driver swing is still kinda in the dumps, but I will say that SIM Max

This thread in a nutshell  

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I just wish we could keep it on topic and stop griping... Jeez. Been going-on since Monday!
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I just wish we could keep it on topic and stop griping... Jeez. Been going-on since Monday!
“Y’all are grounded! Go to your rooms! If you can’t play nice, don’t play!”



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Do we at least get bunk beds?

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6 hours ago, MWGolf23 said:

That's what I thought when I saw they did this. Dumb for their brand. Opens up the possibility of a lot of golfers not seeing the results they expect.

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It’s definitely a yuge gamble on their part, hopefully it works out for the better.

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Are we seriously approaching the $600 range for a driver? you can get a whole set of Srixon Z785 irons for almost the same price.  I could see if this driver truly gave us 25 extra yards, but its mainly aesthetics and once again...marketing....

I try other brands...keep coming back to Titleist....why??

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12 minutes ago, Tsecor said:

Are we seriously approaching the $600 range for a driver? you can get a whole set of Srixon Z785 irons for almost the same price.  I could see if this driver truly gave us 25 extra yards, but its mainly aesthetics and once again...marketing....

As MGS acknowledges, truly breakthrough changes in driver technology only happen every 3-5 years. With exception, year-to-year changes are generally going to be minimal, but for certain players they may gladly spend the money for the small improvements. 

If you watch the TXG videos with the SIM, Matt gets some pretty considerable improvements out of the SIM vs last year's models.

I've stated this before to friends offline and not on this forum, but if the price tag of a driver is too much for you, go get fit for the model you want and wait. Scour eBay or used club sites. You can find Cobra F8s brand new for $150 now without much effort. (I understand the delayed gratification is a problem...)

I look at it this way - car manufacturers release a new model year every year. Is a 2020 model year significantly better than a 2019 or even a 2018 model year? With few exceptions, no. But I can guarantee you there are people who pay to upgrade every year or every two years. It is what it is.

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20 minutes ago, Tsecor said:

Are we seriously approaching the $600 range for a driver? you can get a whole set of Srixon Z785 irons for almost the same price.  I could see if this driver truly gave us 25 extra yards, but its mainly aesthetics and once again...marketing....

It’s a lot more than aesthetics and marketing. Plenty of amateurs are seeing enough ball speed and distance gains to upgrade.

there are numerous non contract pros who have switched to the sim line and these guys don’t change if things aren’t better

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2 minutes ago, edingc said:

As MGS acknowledges, truly breakthrough changes in driver technology only happen every 3-5 years. With exception, year-to-year changes are generally going to be minimal, but for certain players they may gladly spend the money for the small improvements. 

If you watch the TXG videos with the SIM, Matt gets some pretty considerable improvements out of the SIM vs last year's models.

I've stated this before to friends offline and not on this forum, but if the price tag of a driver is too much for you, go get fit for the model you want and wait. Scour eBay or used club sites. You can find Cobra F8s brand new for $150 now without much effort. (I understand the delayed gratification is a problem...)

I look at it this way - car manufacturers release a new model year every year. Is a 2020 model year significantly better than a 2019 or even a 2018 model year? With few exceptions, no. But I can guarantee you there are people who pay to upgrade every year or every two years. It is what it is.

all true. Except Matty is going through swing changes and to me, id rather see robot testing ONLY because you know you get the same exact swing each time and its a true apples to apples comparison when it comes to the gains you MAY see.  

I still play the 910D3 and it may be time for an upgrade, but spending $550 on a driver that may give you 3-5 extra yards isn't worth it to me. but I can see how people would want to justify the spend for a few yards. Its a beautiful club, that's for sure. 

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I try other brands...keep coming back to Titleist....why??

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9 minutes ago, edingc said:

I've stated this before to friends offline and not on this forum, but if the price tag of a driver is too much for you, go get fit for the model you want and wait. Scour eBay or used club sites. You can find Cobra F8s brand new for $150 now without much effort. (I understand the delayed gratification is a problem...)

I look at it this way - car manufacturers release a new model year every year. Is a 2020 model year significantly better than a 2019 or even a 2018 model year? With few exceptions, no. But I can guarantee you there are people who pay to upgrade every year or every two years. It is what it is.

Great points.

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7 minutes ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

It’s a lot more than aesthetics and marketing. Plenty of amateurs are seeing enough ball speed and distance gains to upgrade.

there are numerous non contract pros who have switched to the sim line and these guys don’t change if things aren’t better

nobody is denying its "better" but to me, the marketing FAR outweighs the actual gains people are seeing. It is what it is. Im just saying the gains are very minimal in comparison to the spend. Its a beautiful driver and id love to have one, but the spend for 3 yards isn't worth it to me. But that's just me. I don't begrudge anyone who spends and gets what they want regardless of gains.

I try other brands...keep coming back to Titleist....why??

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16 minutes ago, Tsecor said:

all true. Except Matty is going through swing changes and to me, id rather see robot testing ONLY because you know you get the same exact swing each time and its a true apples to apples comparison when it comes to the gains you MAY see.  

I still play the 910D3 and it may be time for an upgrade, but spending $550 on a driver that may give you 3-5 extra yards isn't worth it to me. but I can see how people would want to justify the spend for a few yards. Its a beautiful club, that's for sure. 

Despite Matt’s changes his saw significant improvements with the sim and sim max.

12 minutes ago, Tsecor said:

nobody is denying its "better" but to me, the marketing FAR outweighs the actual gains people are seeing. It is what it is. Im just saying the gains are very minimal in comparison to the spend. Its a beautiful driver and id love to have one, but the spend for 3 yards isn't worth it to me. But that's just me. I don't begrudge anyone who spends and gets what they want regardless of gains.

That is player dependent. What one considers minimal someone else may see as significant. 5 yards for one person may not be enough to spend $500 whereas another person jumps at that and from what I have seen around various forms of social media there are several buying for the 1.5-2mph ball speed increase. So to say it’s minimal for the spend is general of a statement. 

Also there’s more that goes into some people’s decisions that aren’t speed/distance related. Looking at what TXG showed in the video the standard deviation improvement over m5 in spin and ball speed is significant imo. Better consistency in strikes goes to consistency in end results. 

Another note is there are going to be golfers who haven’t upgraded in years that are more than likely are going to see improvement over those with more recent drivers. Throwing potential improvements away as marketing or aesthetics is doing the engineers who spent hours upon hours over years working on the design a disservice. 

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all true. Except Matty is going through swing changes and to me, id rather see robot testing ONLY because you know you get the same exact swing each time and its a true apples to apples comparison when it comes to the gains you MAY see.  
I still play the 910D3 and it may be time for an upgrade, but spending $550 on a driver that may give you 3-5 extra yards isn't worth it to me. but I can see how people would want to justify the spend for a few yards. Its a beautiful club, that's for sure. 


I’d like to see robot testing too with various strike locations. Out of the center they should all basically be the same, but it would be cool to see if they differ at all for high/low toe/heel strikes.

Could help find something for a guy who knows his strike pattern.


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26 minutes ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

Despite Matt’s changes his saw significant improvements with the sim and sim max.

That is player dependent. What one considers minimal someone else may see as significant. 5 yards for one person may not be enough to spend $500 whereas another person jumps at that and from what I have seen around various forms of social media there are several buying for the 1.5-2mph ball speed increase. So to say it’s minimal for the spend is general of a statement. 

Also there’s more that goes into some people’s decisions that aren’t speed/distance related. Looking at what TXG showed in the video the standard deviation improvement over m5 in spin and ball speed is significant imo. Better consistency in strikes goes to consistency in end results. 

Another note is there are going to be golfers who haven’t upgraded in years that are more than likely are going to see improvement over those with more recent drivers. Throwing potential improvements away as marketing or aesthetics is doing the engineers who spent hours upon hours over years working on the design a disservice. 

Despite Matt’s changes his saw significant improvements with the sim and sim max.- is it the club or new swing? hard to tell and I don't think Matty is the best example for most of us for many reasons. first he hits it like 350, lol and he changes his swing quite often, plus he is more on the elite side of "amateur" players. Not bashing him, I just don't think his results can apply to most people.

So to say it’s minimal for the spend is general of a statement. - that's why its my opinion. you have a different view. That's fine. 

Also there’s more that goes into some people’s decisions that aren’t speed/distance related. Looking at what TXG showed in the video the standard deviation improvement over m5 in spin and ball speed is significant imo. Better consistency in strikes goes to consistency in end results. - I agree with this. 

 

Throwing potential improvements away as marketing or aesthetics is doing the engineers who spent hours upon hours over years working on the design a disservice. - no its not. I work with designers and engineers all day and have for 15 years. We discuss this type of change all the time and they often say subtle changes in the engineering field do not directly relate to performance even though the quality is much better. So a more "stable" club is absolutely "better" and it may have taken 6 months to figure this out, but it may not result in gains. That's just how it is. The work is still incredible but the performance result may be much different than the engineering gains and getting an extra 10 yards MAY not even have been the goal of the designer or engineer. its not synonymous 

I try other brands...keep coming back to Titleist....why??

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8 minutes ago, Tsecor said:

is it the club or new swing?

Did you watch the video? He hit M5 and SIM in the same session then went back to M5 for a couple more hits to confirm results. That pretty well rules out the swing changes he’s been working on.

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I don't think Matty is the best example for most of us for many reasons. first he hits it like 350, lol and he changes his swing quite often, plus he is more on the elite side of "amateur" players. Not bashing him, I just don't think his results can apply to most people. 


Not bashing Matt, but hit full swing is solid, but I watched a couple of videos where he was getting short game instruction and he definitively needs help...definitely not elite.


At the end of the day everyone has to make an assessment to see if the claims and actual improvement justifies the spend. Improvement could be distance or distribution or ball speed on miss hits. One player could see no improvement and another lots of improvement coming from the same club; there are lots of variables to look at. With clubs you really have to test them yourself and swing speed probably matters. There is a club in this years most wanted test that I struggled to get more than 1500 rpm backspin; most balls were knuckleballs. I ultimately had to change my swing to hit a big cut to get any relevant performance data. Another was so light I struggled to hit the ball consistently. These clubs work for someone and I am sure someone will say they gains 20 yards with the clubs I failed miserably to hit well
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46 minutes ago, TR1PTIK said:

Did you watch the video? He hit M5 and SIM in the same session then went back to M5 for a couple more hits to confirm results. That pretty well rules out the swing changes he’s been working on.

No. I haven't seen that one yet but ill watch it tonight.

I try other brands...keep coming back to Titleist....why??

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44 minutes ago, Tsecor said:

No. I haven't seen that one yet but ill watch it tonight.

I think it’s a pretty good one. The SIM MAX vs M6 is good too.

It doesn’t prove much of anything about the exact marketing claims Taylormade is making, but there are noticeable improvements in ball flight and ball speed.

Driver: Mizuno ST190 9.5* Aldila RIP Alpha 60 S
Fairway Wood: Mizuno ST190 15* Fujikura Atmos Blue 6S
Hyrbrid: Mizuno CLK 19* Fujikura Speeder EVO HB
Irons: Bridgestone J40 CB (4-PW) Dynamic Gold Tour Issue X100
Wedges: Bridgestone Tour B XW-1 50*, 54*, & 58* Nippon Modus 3 105
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nobody is denying its "better" but to me, the marketing FAR outweighs the actual gains people are seeing. It is what it is. Im just saying the gains are very minimal in comparison to the spend. Its a beautiful driver and id love to have one, but the spend for 3 yards isn't worth it to me. But that's just me. I don't begrudge anyone who spends and gets what they want regardless of gains.

So, do us a favor, and go test it for yourself. Don’t take Rick Shiels’s word, Crossfield’s word, Etches’s word, Blois’s word, no one’s. Go somewhere that can truly fit you to a “T”, and then let us know. This way, it’s about you and no one else. That’s the best way to make claims and see if it is just marketing. I go to the big North Louisiana demo-day every year and try just about everything, at least with the stock shafts, or what the rep has available. I usually don’t see everything in my bag beaten, but I go try it anyway and then I have actual data. Plus, it’s FUN!!!!! Do a demo-day at worst before deciding.

Because, if you think about it, making claims without having tried it are nothing but the same thing as an OEM’s marketing claims.... Right?

 

 

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Fwy: 

Hybrid: :callaway-small: X2 Hot Pro, 20*, :Fuji: Rombax 8D07HB TM27 X

Irons: :honma:TR20 Tour P 4/5, Tour V 6-10, Dynamic Gold X100

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Putter:  :edel-golf-1: EAS 1.0

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27 minutes ago, TR1PTIK said:

I think it’s a pretty good one. The SIM MAX vs M6 is good too.

It doesn’t prove much of anything about the exact marketing claims Taylormade is making, but there are noticeable improvements in ball flight and ball speed.

The Max vs M6 is very intriguing to me because the M6 was a highly celebrated driver for many levels of players. 

I try other brands...keep coming back to Titleist....why??

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22 minutes ago, PMookie said:

So, do us a favor, and go test it for yourself. Don’t take Rick Shiels’s word, Crossfield’s word, Etches’s word, Blois’s word, no one’s. Go somewhere that can truly fit you to a “T”, and then let us know. This way, it’s about you and no one else. That’s the best way to make claims and see if it is just marketing. I go to the big North Louisiana demo-day every year and try just about everything, at least with the stock shafts, or what the rep has available. I usually don’t see everything in my bag beaten, but I go try it anyway and then I have actual data. Plus, it’s FUN!!!!! Do a demo-day at worst before deciding.

Because, if you think about it, making claims without having tried it are nothing but the same thing as an OEM’s marketing claims.... Right?

 

 

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That is correct sir. But for the sake of this discussion, we are somewhat debating marketing and cost vs gains....its a little bit of everything. My point was based off of many years of trying the newest and greatest driver to come out and I still hit my 910 D3 better than all of them...or at least the same....that why I mention the marketing angle.....hey, they have to sell clubs after all right?  And we all know the public (us) is a sucker for a shiny new toy. 

But yes, id love to go to a demo day as you described. Im sure its a blast. I could probably spend all day at an event like that

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