What/How Did You Practice Today?

[JStapp]

36 minutes ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

Have you sprayed your face to see contact point? If you having good and bad rounds and having spin issues the chances are you are aren’t consistent with your face control contact.

What stands out to me and it’s nowhere as bad as most swings which I’m not surprised at due to the handicap level is 

1) just a little inside on the takeaway and wrist set could be a little more vertical(I’ll hit on why shortly). The slight inside is from the hips moving a little to early plus the wrist set. Hips should be the last thing to go in the backswing, yours go pretty early

2) at the top you get long with the arms and club because of a late load or relaxing the wrists. Pic 1 is really all you need as far as backswing length. Pic 2 shows your wrists hinge more and the club disappear behind you. It takes time to recover from this. Touching more on it in next point

3) your transition and downswing have a pretty unison  movement of the lower and upper body so you don’t have as much time for the club to catch up, back to the target longer will help this. if you watch your right foot the heel comes off the ground pretty early and the knee moves toward the target(pic 3). You have to slow down the rotation to let things catch up which is why you see the extension of the arms (pic 4)and the rolling of the arms which is your mechanism to square the face. The days that you can time this up are the days you have great driving days and the days where you can’t you dont get as good of a result. These on these days is probably some added dynamic loft and lower than usually face contact which will increase spin. You can see how much you are standing up and on your toes post impact rather than rotating thru the ball(pic 5)

Do yo have a face on video?

 

Love this response man! Appreciate it. My misses are almost always toe side with the big dog. I agree that it comes down to club face control. My question is, how do I fix these issues you brought up? Most coaches have identified those things you mentioned. What drills/feels etc can I use or practice to fix any of those things? 

I'm willing to put in all the practice time to work on whatever I need to. I wasn't able to see the pictures you hinted at, but I do know exactly what you are talking about on each metric. 

 

I'll get a face on video today. 

[RickyBobby_PR]

9 minutes ago, JStapp said:

Love this response man! Appreciate it. My misses are almost always toe side with the big dog. I agree that it comes down to club face control. My question is, how do I fix these issues you brought up? Most coaches have identified those things you mentioned. What drills/feels etc can I use or practice to fix any of those things? 

I'm willing to put in all the practice time to work on whatever I need to. I wasn't able to see the pictures you hinted at, but I do know exactly what you are talking about on each metric. 

 

I'll get a face on video today. 

I had to step away let me post the photos.

I know the miss well it’s my miss with most clubs for similar reasons as you have. When we have to slow down rotation for the arms to catchup we end up with higher hands which presents the toe and usually some degree of an open face. We them rely on our hands and athleticism to square up the face.

Doing the drills in slower speed and some slower speed swings will help engrain the movement patterns. Practice should be broken down into movement pattern practice and ball striking practice. Dont combine the two. Movement pattern changes should not focus on the result. You are making a change and the results will come as the movement improves. 
 

ball striking practice is to get better at ball striking and  if a bad shot happens don’t think about the bad movement that may have happened. Just try to execute on the next shot

I think Porzak has some good videos that will help. His checkpoint one and two will be the biggest help.

 

[StrokerAce]

I love videos like this. I get stuck trying to "control" my swing instead of just swinging hard.

https://youtu.be/eyLyLXenfMM?si=gnrlApeUAYGgIo5-

 

[Rob Person]

This is over the last few days. Been working on chips and putts.

 

 

 

 

 

[cnosil]

28 minutes ago, StrokerAce said:

I love videos like this. I get stuck trying to "control" my swing instead of just swinging hard.

https://youtu.be/eyLyLXenfMM?si=gnrlApeUAYGgIo5-

 

Kind of says the same thing the same MGS lab test showed.   I think the key is that if your stock swing is not full out then the full out will be better.   If you are full out with stock, you will start to get out of sync/balance.    I was part of the MGS test and full out was best for me.  

[StrokerAce]

2 minutes ago, cnosil said:

Kind of says the same thing the same MGS lab test showed.   I think the key is that if your stock swing is not full out then the full out will be better.   If you are full out with stock, you will start to get out of sync/balance.    I was part of the MGS test and full out was best for me.  

It's a great experiment. I think some players are afraid to swing full out with fear of the result. I tried it at the range and as long as I keep my tempo full out was better for me as well.

[RickyBobby_PR]

28 minutes ago, cnosil said:

Kind of says the same thing the same MGS lab test showed.   I think the key is that if your stock swing is not full out then the full out will be better.   If you are full out with stock, you will start to get out of sync/balance.    I was part of the MGS test and full out was best for me.  

Full out is best for most people. But as the guy behind the center said the 90-95% is where the best stay and turn it on when they need it. Slow is going to be relative but guys on tour are taking a lot of speed off. I don’t recall what brysons all out speed is bs what he dials down to but his all out is up there with the long drive guys. Finau is around 20mph less on the course than he is capable of.

to me what it shows is the mindset of “I’ll take less distance for more accuracy” isn’t all that great for scoring which is also highlighted in strokes gained about being closer is better even in the rough vs fairway 

[cksurfdude]

2 hours ago, StrokerAce said:

I love videos like this. I get stuck trying to "control" my swing instead of just swinging hard.

https://youtu.be/eyLyLXenfMM?si=gnrlApeUAYGgIo5-

 

For me this also applies to iron swings; that is - I find myself screwing up a lot when I try to "control" my swing (eg 'baby' the shot or 'direct' the ball) vs just swing my swing.

Example - Par 3s where I will take an extra club but then not give it a full, committed swing .. and then end up short or right or short-right or anywhere other than on/near the green...

[jbern]

Practiced some tempo putting today. I set up a ruler with checkpoints at 5", 7", & 8" to ensure that when I take the club back farther the result is a putt that goes farther. Hit 50 putts. The tempo felt good, but there were about 10 mishits (maybe 12 even). I think my next putting practice is going to be a gate drill or something similar to reduce the mishits.

[Jim Shaw]

20 hours ago, JStapp said:

Hold on tight, and buckle up… I’m in need of HELP. DRIVER ISSUES
 

Background: + Handicap, competing in high level amateur events. I’ve ALWAYS struggled with driver. I’ve taken multiple lessons in person, some online lessons with McCormicks/Yarwoods of the world, tried different methods of practice/drills etc. and I just can’t be consistent. I have rounds where it’s great, and rounds where it’s average. 
 

First: Here’s a recent video from this winter/spring. Anything stand out? (I’ll read anybody and everybody’s opinion I don’t care) 

Second: Playing the Callaway TD w/ Ventus Blue TR 6X at 120-125 mph clubhead. I’ll try some other things: anything to keep it in play with decent spin. Most “forgiving” or max models spin to the moon. 
 

sincerely: desperate person 

Wow, everything looks great to me, if you want to try one thing you may want to tighten up your follow through, although Arnold Palmer did pretty good with that helicopter finish. When you are hitting it great are there any "feels" that you could repeat when it starts to go sideways? Cause and affect kind of thing?

[cksurfdude]

3 hours ago, jbern said:

Practiced some tempo putting today. I set up a ruler with checkpoints at 5", 7", & 8" to ensure that when I take the club back farther the result is a putt that goes farther. Hit 50 putts. The tempo felt good, but there were about 10 mishits (maybe 12 even). I think my next putting practice is going to be a gate drill or something similar to reduce the mishits.

When you get the ExPutt set up, metrics include path and face at impact .. hopefully those can help you, too!! 

[RickyBobby_PR]

25 minutes ago, Jim Shaw said:

Wow, everything looks great to me, if you want to try one thing you may want to tighten up your follow through, although Arnold Palmer did pretty good with that helicopter finish. When you are hitting it great are there any "feels" that you could repeat when it starts to go sideways? Cause and affect kind of thing?

The follow thru is a result of what happens at and after impact which is a caused by what happens in the downswing which comes as a result of what happened in the backswing.

The downswing is .25 seconds which makes it hard to do much to find an issue that occurs in the downswing during an actual golf swing and one has to think about what they want to much sooner in the swing. So to fix anything in the follow thru the problems have to be addressed much sooner in the swing. In this swing one issue to fix is how the wrists are working. If he sets them at a 45° angle just after p2 with a driver it will help shorten his swing which will help him in transition and sync up better and not have to stall the hips. He knows the issues because as he said his other instructors have pointed out the samething. It’s now a matter of finding the right drill and feel for him to work on fixing the problems. As well as getting the right practice approach to implement the correct moves.

Getting a face on will help to see if he’s shifting properly which if he’s not is also going to have to be worked on to help with how his right side is working 

[Willie T]

Day 89 (12 Apr 24) - Worked on pitches/chips with 8yr old grandson in backyard - however he made a good game of it as we had to hit from where he tossed the frisbee…made for some fun shotmaking on both our parts…love it when he comes up with new ways to backyard practice. 

[TJ Hall]

22 hours ago, JStapp said:

Hold on tight, and buckle up… I’m in need of HELP. DRIVER ISSUES
 

Background: + Handicap, competing in high level amateur events. I’ve ALWAYS struggled with driver. I’ve taken multiple lessons in person, some online lessons with McCormicks/Yarwoods of the world, tried different methods of practice/drills etc. and I just can’t be consistent. I have rounds where it’s great, and rounds where it’s average. 
 

First: Here’s a recent video from this winter/spring. Anything stand out? (I’ll read anybody and everybody’s opinion I don’t care) 

Second: Playing the Callaway TD w/ Ventus Blue TR 6X at 120-125 mph clubhead. I’ll try some other things: anything to keep it in play with decent spin. Most “forgiving” or max models spin to the moon. 
 

sincerely: desperate person 

Not a coach here and don’t know your swing overall, but near the top of your backswing it looks like your chest/upper body starts moving up.  Maybe it is a timing thing getting back into the same position where you can do it sometimes and not others???

Again, not a coach or instructor, just the first thing I noticed.

[RickyBobby_PR]

8 minutes ago, TJ Hall said:

Not a coach here and don’t know your swing overall, but near the top of your backswing it looks like your chest/upper body starts moving up.  Maybe it is a timing thing getting back into the same position where you can do it sometimes and not others???

Again, not a coach or instructor, just the first thing I noticed.

It’s part of the arm run off and slight overswing due to the wrist set issues 

Edited April 13 by RickyBobby_PR

[BobBC78]

Aside from the putting drills which I mentioned in the Argolf testing thread, I did Kirk Junge's Drill 1 (basically a short swing through the impact area) with my 7H.

[Nickygolf]

I practiced putting this morning. I'll have some premier league soccer going and putt my life away. I have an unfinished basement where theres a 17" long carpet runner and a target practice game I made. Its basically some 2x4 lumber cut and screwed to make a rectangle and two holes drilled in the front. Left side is barely big enough to fit a golf ball and right side replicates a 4" standard golf hole.

Edited April 13 by Nickygolf

[EnderinAZ]

On 4/12/2024 at 6:01 AM, JStapp said:

Love this response man! Appreciate it. My misses are almost always toe side with the big dog. I agree that it comes down to club face control. My question is, how do I fix these issues you brought up? Most coaches have identified those things you mentioned. What drills/feels etc can I use or practice to fix any of those things? 

I'm willing to put in all the practice time to work on whatever I need to. I wasn't able to see the pictures you hinted at, but I do know exactly what you are talking about on each metric. 

 

I'll get a face on video today. 

Lots of good responses here, but I have to ask. Have you had your shafts checked to make sure they match the power you are putting into your swing? Trying to fix what could be an equipment miss match problem with a swing change could have terrible repercussions down the line.  If your shafts are good try:

Set up your phone to video your swing. Make several videos and be sure to note if it was a good one or not. If you can do it so it films in slow motion. Make videos from all the compass points, N,S,E,W. 

I have said it before, but here it is again. A golf swing is a series of habits stacked one on top of the other.  The human brain cannot consciously focus on all the parts of the swing at the same time so it stores the swing as a series of habits in an entirely different part of the brain than where conscious thought occurs.  This means there is a very good chance you are making a subtle change in your swing that you cannot feel. By that I mean the change is a habit, so when the habit is accomplished with no issues it feels right. 

So watch your swing, then target that one point that maybe doesn't look right and feel for it in your swing. If it is wrong you will know it if not immediately within a swing or two. 

[jbern]

17 hours ago, cksurfdude said:

When you get the ExPutt set up, metrics include path and face at impact .. hopefully those can help you, too!! 

Yes, I am very excited about that. Lag putting is the worst part of my game right now and I’m really hoping the EXputt can help with that! 
I’ve been skimming the 2020 EXputt thread and I have a couple questions about it that I’ll post in that thread. 

[RickyBobby_PR]

2 hours ago, EnderinAZ said:

Lots of good responses here, but I have to ask. Have you had your shafts checked to make sure they match the power you are putting into your swing? Trying to fix what could be an equipment miss match problem with a swing change could have terrible repercussions down the line.  If your shafts are good try:

Set up your phone to video your swing. Make several videos and be sure to note if it was a good one or not. If you can do it so it films in slow motion. Make videos from all the compass points, N,S,E,W. 

I have said it before, but here it is again. A golf swing is a series of habits stacked one on top of the other.  The human brain cannot consciously focus on all the parts of the swing at the same time so it stores the swing as a series of habits in an entirely different part of the brain than where conscious thought occurs.  This means there is a very good chance you are making a subtle change in your swing that you cannot feel. By that I mean the change is a habit, so when the habit is accomplished with no issues it feels right. 

So watch your swing, then target that one point that maybe doesn't look right and feel for it in your swing. If it is wrong you will know it if not immediately within a swing or two. 

It’s not a shaft issue. He has a movement pattern problem that starts with his takeaway. If he had better positioning at the top of his swing and then was having issues in transition then maybe it could be a shaft issue. If he released the club later then it could potentially be fixed by a different profile. The earlier one releases the less impact the shaft has on the delivery

yes it’s a movement pattern issue and yes his mind is used to a certain movement. The problem he has is that because of there the club is in the backwing and top of the swing it requires more time to get into a proper position which because he rotates the hips and shoulders at the same time he doesn’t have enough time for things to sync up so he has to stall the hips and then time the arms and hands. When he can he has a good driving day, when he can’t he has an okay day. He has to fix wrist hinge and hips not going as early in the swing. The drills and videos I posted from Porzak will help him work on the new movement patterns

Edited April 13 by RickyBobby_PR

[bens197]

This is my happy place. Playing for less than one year and loves the game. So anytime we can get practice we can practice

 

[EnderinAZ]

6 hours ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

It’s not a shaft issue. He has a movement pattern problem that starts with his takeaway. If he had better positioning at the top of his swing and then was having issues in transition then maybe it could be a shaft issue. If he released the club later then it could potentially be fixed by a different profile. The earlier one releases the less impact the shaft has on the delivery

yes it’s a movement pattern issue and yes his mind is used to a certain movement. The problem he has is that because of there the club is in the backwing and top of the swing it requires more time to get into a proper position which because he rotates the hips and shoulders at the same time he doesn’t have enough time for things to sync up so he has to stall the hips and then time the arms and hands. When he can he has a good driving day, when he can’t he has an okay day. He has to fix wrist hinge and hips not going as early in the swing. The drills and videos I posted from Porzak will help him work on the new movement patterns

Cool. As long as he knows where the problem is. The drills and videos will help as long as he can feel it. If you cannot overwrite the habit, it will not change. That is what makes changing a golf swing so hard. 

I am not being facetious or flippant in asking this. Do you have a method that would allow you to feel and know you have turned your hips too soon other than watching the ball go the wrong way? I don't, and I would like to.

[Willie T]

Day 90 (13 Apr 24) - Worked with 7i, Divot Board, hard foam balls - worked on target point and proper alignment (using the board as an alignment rod), i.e. aim small, miss small.  Wrapped up session doing similarly with the 58* and regular balls hitting to about 25yds…

[Indy_Oz]

Glorious day for some range time.

A bit windy, but shorts weather and I'll take that after the crappy wet and cold last couple of weeks! I needed some time hitting off grass ahead of playing tomorrow morning and Monday afternoon. Monday will be more of a test- playing Purgatory GC here in Indiana. Fun, challenging links-style course with hazards-a-plenty. Weather forecast is good (around 70f and sunny at the tee time) and the course should have dried up enough from the recent deluges.

One of today's main practice focal points was to try out the new driver shaft. The combo of the new-to-me G430LST 9* head and the Mitsubishi Kai'Li 60X x-stiff shaft is (on the basis of one range session) very, very nice. I love the step up in stability and stiff feel this shaft gives me over the Ping Tour 2.0 Chrome 65X. This was definitely lower launching and face control was easier, with more consistent strike and trajectory. Hit some absolute bombs and the misses didn't seem as bad. The setup seemed to be much more forgiving off off-center strikes. Particularly toe strikes. Just need to spend a little more time dialing in the loft sleeve-back weight position combination, but I think I ended up on a good initial setup to see me through tomorrow morning's round.

I felt like I was- for the most part- hitting my irons well today too, which is nice. Didn't get time to hit the chipping green, but spent 20 minutes putting at the end and that went fairly well.

Monday's round will need some accurate tee shots, so hopefully tomorrow goes well and I go into Monday with more confidence of my setup and my misses than last time I was at Purgatory.

[RickyBobby_PR]

2 hours ago, EnderinAZ said:

Cool. As long as he knows where the problem is. The drills and videos will help as long as he can feel it. If you cannot overwrite the habit, it will not change. That is what makes changing a golf swing so hard. 

I am not being facetious or flippant in asking this. Do you have a method that would allow you to feel and know you have turned your hips too soon other than watching the ball go the wrong way? I don't, and I would like to.

It will take time to change the movement. They may or may not work but they are a starting point and we can see how he’s getting along with his practice sessions. We can assess what he’s doing. What he feels he’s doing (feel isn’t real) and if what he thinks he doing if it’s actually doing it via video. As mentioned the change will come from slower swings and lot of repetitions.

if he doesn’t get along with the drills then we find another drill or feel to see what works. We can assess his practice routine as well and see if we have to make adjustments.

the upper body turns the lower body, but there also has to be some use of the ground. Porzak’s teaching is that the upper body turning is what causes the pressure shift to trail side and helps the hips turn. 
 

Another feel is to do a drill where the arms to the swinging. Feel the arms back to around hip height and set the wrist late in this case would be when then hands reach hip height and don’t bend the elbow.  The hips will have no choice but to turn and the feel the arms do the downswing and again hip turn will happen automatically.

another feel is to push the hands to 7 o’clock. This is taught in monte scheinblum’s no turn cast. 

 

[EnderinAZ]

1 hour ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

(feel isn’t real)

If you are stating that you cannot feel your body as it moves within the swing we will have to agree to disagree. As a practitioner of yoga, tai chi, and mindful meditation, 3 ancient, diverse, and proven methods of physicality that force you to learn to feel your body.

In yoga, the "tree" pose. If you cannot feel where on your knee or thigh you will place your foot as you sink into the stance before you lift your foot off the ground your balance will fail.

There are a series of steps in the last section of the 108 steps of the Yang Long Form in Tai Chi that require you to turn and stand with the backs of your heels pressed against each other. A very odd and difficult finish. Again if you do not know what your foot is doing, if you cannot feel how it is orientated you will either complete the step wrong or fall. 

In Steven Kotler's The Art of Impossible he explains how the best of the best in sports and extreme sports perfect the drive, focus, and ability to train through boredom required to move through the drills you have established for him. But to establish the neuroplastic synaptic connections - yes the neuroscientists can now unequivocally prove that training like the subjects in The Art of Impossible actually rewires your brain for success in that endeavor - and overwrite a swing issue you must have the focused emotional connection to the training or you are just whacking golf balls.  

[JoeB1]

Sadly, here in Alaska, we are still indoor golfing at the moment. I was able to get in 100 putts from 3 feet to 10 feet on my putting mat in the living room. I hit about 50 balls or so in the garage full tilt and then hit a variation of wedge shots, short, medium, and full. Luckily we have some sun and it’s about 40 degrees Fahrenheit now, so I lastly was able to take my weighted club out into the driveway and swing out of my shoes. 

[RickyBobby_PR]

5 hours ago, EnderinAZ said:

If you are stating that you cannot feel your body as it moves within the swing we will have to agree to disagree. As a practitioner of yoga, tai chi, and mindful meditation, 3 ancient, diverse, and proven methods of physicality that force you to learn to feel your body.

That’s not what I’m saying. In golf there are feels people have but it’s not what tent are actually doing and that can be shown on video. It’s not just me who says that feel isn’t real but every good instructor. You can read posts all over the internet where someone says they feel x,y,z and when you look at their video they aren’t doing any of what they feel. 
 

Theres a couple recent epic threads on wrx that have had this exact discussion. 

 

I believe it was amg who had talked about Sergio and how he says he feels like he pulls on a chain in transition but their analysis shows that his movement is akin to that.

There are feels that people have to help them achieve something on the golf swing but what they are actually doing isn’t what the feel is.

Or we can create an exaggerated feel to accomplish a change in what the body is doing.

The Justin rose drill is one. Over external rotate the lead shoulder at p3 to teach how the lead shoulder should move in the swing, even though the lead arm would never externally rotate alot.

 

Edited April 14 by RickyBobby_PR

[Josh Parker]

I had a great practice session this morning. I am focusing on good solid repetition with the swing changes and buckling down.  

I have read swing changes can take 27hrs to 100hrs and thousands of well thought out swings.  

Here's to completing the first 2hrs. 

[EnderinAZ]

3 hours ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

That’s not what I’m saying. In golf there are feels people have but it’s not what tent are actually doing and that can be shown on video. It’s not just me who says that feel isn’t real but every good instructor. You can read posts all over the internet where someone says they feel x,y,z and when you look at their video they aren’t doing any of what they feel. 

So we are saying the same thing in a different way.  The feels you are referring above are the swing habits I referred to earlier and said because of the habit you cannot tell if the swing is wrong because it feels right. This is why I said make a video. 

I tried the video thing yesterday on the practice area on the back nine of my home course. I started pushing my chips and pitches to the right after my last shoulder blowout.  The chip stroke feels perfect but launches 15 to 20 degrees right. So I took videos of the club head and then my hands. Come to find out the chips where the ball went where I wanted my hands were about 1 inch further left (I am right-handed) at address.  Or...

More shaft lean....

Or put the ball further to my right at address

Bingo. Further to my right. This takes my crappy unstable shoulder out of the chip shot. A little more videoing showed my upper right arm rolling open slightly after it passes the edge of my torso. I could see the slight change in my hands and in the club face as it approached the ball. I can stop this by clenching my bicep and front shoulder but clenching the shoulder hurts. Pain will write a habit into the brain's habit central faster than just about anything

This is all to say, "I agree, the "feel" is not real". 

If you want to get into a discussion about the myth of "muscle memory", swing habits, conscious thought in the prefrontal cortex or habitual movements derived in the basal ganglia (habit central). I am happy to, but the science involved here is a great cure to insomnia for most people.