Should Professional Golfers with a disability be allowed to ride in a Golf Cart during Tournament Play?

[FrogginBullfish]

Sorry, but that is some serious reductio ad absurdum. If someone with a legitimate disability has the skill and talent to play at the highest level of professional golf, they shouldn't be put at a competitive disadvantage because of their disability. They should be given the opportunity to compete alongside the rest of the players on an even playing field. For Martin and JD, that involves the use of a cart while the rest of the field walks. There's no advantage to Martin and JD using a cart. They legitimately need it to be competitive.

 So why not make world number one play from a set of tees that’s farther back? Or 1-30 play from 7600, 31-60, 7500 and so on and so forth to level the field?
 
Or they get 13 clubs rather than 14
 
Or some guys get 15 because they clearly aren’t as good.
 
Sorry to pick on you but it is a no win slope.
 
If you allow a cart for one all should have that option, if you allow 13 clubs all get them
 
If you want to allow a player with a disability to compete at the professional level - then everyone gets the option of his accommodation.
 
Do you really think that an employer is going to say to my daughter, “Gee you’re a great writer. We want you to cover the Brewers beat. Since your disability doesn’t allow you to fly we will petition MLB to have an extra day off for their games or the world will wait until you get there for the president to make his speech in Uganda while you take a boat? Since your our White House correspondent?”
 
It has to be all or nothing.
 
I think I know what I’m talking about way, way more than most. It stinks but it’s reality - boy do I get it.
 
BTW if you let my daughter drive her wheel char on 5 down the field in an NFL game she might score a TD on every play.
 
She’d have trouble holding the ball but no one could catch her and if they did she and it weigh over 500 lbs - what’s the chance a single guy could tackle her?
 
What if we adjusted the chair to go 35 instead of 20 on 5?
 
Just let them all use carts if you want to make an “exception” and be done with it.
 
Sorry this topic came up and I read it - this is very hard for me to stomach.
 
Many have no idea what a real disability is about. I feel for Casey and especially his family - John Daly - not so much.
 
 
 
Sent from my iPhone using MyGolfSpy
 

Sent from my Pixel 2 using MyGolfSpy mobile app

[bens197]

 So why not make world number one play from a set of tees that’s farther back? Or 1-30 play from 7600, 31-60, 7500 and so on and so forth to level the field?
 
Or they get 13 clubs rather than 14
 
Or some guys get 15 because they clearly aren’t as good.
 
Sorry to pick on you but it is a no win slope.
 
If you allow a cart for one all should have that option, if you allow 13 clubs all get them
 
If you want to allow a player with a disability to compete at the professional level - then everyone gets the option of his accommodation.
 
Do you really think that an employer is going to say to my daughter, “Gee you’re a great writer. We want you to cover the Brewers beat. Since your disability doesn’t allow you to fly we will petition MLB to have an extra day off for their games or the world will wait until you get there for the president to make his speech in Uganda while you take a boat? Since your our White House correspondent?”
 
It has to be all or nothing.
 
I think I know what I’m talking about way, way more than most. It stinks but it’s reality - boy do I get it.
 
BTW if you let my daughter drive her wheel char on 5 down the field in an NFL game she might score a TD on every play.
 
She’d have trouble holding the ball but no one could catch her and if they did she and it weigh over 500 lbs - what’s the chance a single guy could tackle her?
 
What if we adjusted the chair to go 35 instead of 20 on 5?
 
Just let them all use carts if you want to make an “exception” and be done with it.
 
Sorry this topic came up and I read it - this is very hard for me to stomach.
 
Many have no idea what a real disability is about. I feel for Casey and especially his family - John Daly - not so much.
 
 
 
Sent from my iPhone using MyGolfSpy
 

Life isn’t just black or white.

We are allowed to evolve.

Keep in mind that some of the largest crowds are following Big John. Two weeks ago in Rochester, it took little effort to find him at the Sr. PGA. Daly had the largest crowd from Wednesday through Friday.

Guess what else he leads the field in? Players who have missed the cut in every tournament they’ve been granted permission to ride.

Here’s one thing that does matter. While he is present, he signs for everyone, takes photos with everyone and gives the fans what they ask. That’s far more than you can say for others.

[sixcat]

Great question OP and one not answered very easily.  Conditioning and endurance are an essential part of the game at the competitive level.  I believe that should never be compromised.  With that said, I was surprised to find myself accepting of the Casey Martin situation but much less sympathetic to John Day at this year's PGA.  I can't give a definitive explanation as to why.  I guess in a nutshell, Martin was born with a disability.  JD has been his own "disability" his entire life.

As for @revkev commentary, he has a very personal and unique experience the rest of us cannot begin to understand.  I don't have anyone with disabilities in my family but I do know a few disabled veterans who will kick me square in the sack if I treat them any differently than I would have otherwise.  We aren't doing the disabled any favors by coddling them or capitulating to their disability.  One of my friends says "I already feel different, don't treat me different and make that feeling worse!"

As the OP stated, I'm all for civil liberties and equal rights for all but the world just isn't equal or fair.  Expecting it to be is a fool's errand!  Just my opinion.

 

[bens197]

As the OP stated, I'm all for civil liberties and equal rights for all but the world just isn't equal or fair.  Expecting it to be is a fool's errand!  Just my opinion.
 

All the more reason to fight for what’s right. That fight is all that some people know

[sixcat]

26 minutes ago, bens197 said:

 

All the more reason to fight for what’s right. That fight is all that some people know

 

Who decides what's right?  What's right for my family may differ greatly to what's right for your family.  

[bens197]

Who decides what's right?  What's right for my family may differ greatly to what's right for your family.  

We’re not as different as your post eludes to. Making an exception for someone doesn’t necessarily mean I’m losing out in the end. If someone needs handicap access it’s often in addition to rather than in its stead.

[palvord]

On 6/4/2019 at 4:31 PM, SteddyGolf said:

 

This weekend I played in a three day competition here in the heat of the ole south. Peak temperatures were north of 100 degrees. As I lugged my bag on my back over holes 50, 51, 52, 53 and 54 I cussed at those who believe fitness, muscular strength and muscular endurance are not major components in competitive golf. Images of John Daley chugging a beer while smoking a cig from his pimped out golf cart danced in my head.

 

I’m all for civil liberties and reasonable accommodations but I also believe anyone riding in a cart over an entire Golf tournament has an unfair advantage of most of the field.

 

What say you? What are your thoughts and opinions on professional golfers with disabilities being allowed to ride in a golf cart?

 

Things to consider:

 

1. Weather extremes are common

 

2. Terrain can include numerous changes on elevation

 

4. The length of a golf round at a PGA Tour event can be 5 plus hours

 

5. A professional golf tournament includes 72 holes plus practice rounds and a 18 hole ProAm Tournament.

 

 

 

 

Sent from my iPad using MyGolfSpy

 

In a mild attempt to try and answer the OP question, I don't care if a professional golfer rides or walks or push carts his way around the course. I just want to see a great golf tournament.

The hard work that a professional player puts in to get to the top level is something that very few people are able to do.  If you are able to compete and perform at that high of a level, I don't care how they move from tee to green.  

Professional golf is pure entertainment anyway. 

[PMookie]

I’m of the belief that one who has a true disability has had to go above and beyond to minimize that disability so as to become good enough to be a pro. Not many can do this. So, give them the cart! They’ve fought against tougher odds than a pro with all of their faculties. Don’t penalize them further! Make the playing field equal.

How about this: make the pros they play against fight the same disability....... Casey Martin has terrible pain in his legs. Make all the other guys see what that feels like and see how they do.

It’s different when the shoe is on the other foot!

How is a freaking disability an ADVANTAGE???

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

 

[sixcat]

1 hour ago, bens197 said:

 

We’re not as different as your post eludes to. Making an exception for someone doesn’t necessarily mean I’m losing out in the end. If someone needs handicap access it’s often in addition to rather than in its stead.

 

But it often does mean someone is "missing out in the end!"  Given my profession, I see aspects of "equal opportunity" that would surprise most people if they had any clue these things were happening.

Edit to add.....and taxpayers are footing the bill!

[bens197]

But it often does mean someone is "missing out in the end!"  Given my profession, I see aspects of "equal opportunity" that would surprise most people if they had any clue these things were happening.
Edit to add.....and taxpayers are footing the bill!

Clearly your mind is set. Have a good day

[chisag]

1 hour ago, bens197 said:

 

We’re not as different as your post eludes to. Making an exception for someone doesn’t necessarily mean I’m losing out in the end. If someone needs handicap access it’s often in addition to rather than in its stead.

 

... To be fair with the above picture, I think probably 100% of everyone posing here agree that making it possible for those viewing with a disability, accommodations should be made.  We are discussing the other side of the fence and whether or not those participating in an athletic event should receive accommodations. One of the things about sports is it has never been fair. The strongest, fastest and most skilled are offered the opportunity to compete at the highest level. Fair or not, football doesn't care how much you have contributed to the team, if you suffer an injury you are summerly discarded unless you have a guaranteed contract. We constantly hear in sports "next man up". Everyone is disposable. 

... After reading Revs comments, I reluctantly agree that there should be no exceptions. Again a hard pill to swallow for those that maybe started out with no disability and reached the highest level only to find a progressive disease has made it difficult to compete under the rules. I am unaware of any other sport that allows something against the rules because of a disability. Of course giving Casey Martin a cart is an advantage but that advantage does not offset his disadvantage. And this is where many of us feel for those with a disability and our first thoughts are "Yes, let them take a cart". But giving this much more thought and reading others responses it becomes clear that just like playing the game of golf that is not and never was meant to be fair, playing the game by the rules without exceptions should not be handled any differently than all other sports. That said, if I were the one giving Casey the news he is not allowed to use a cart I would feel like the biggest a$$hole in the world. 

[bens197]

... To be fair with the above picture, I think probably 100% of everyone posing here agree that making it possible for those viewing with a disability, accommodations should be made.  We are discussing the other side of the fence and whether or not those participating in an athletic event should receive accommodations. One of the things about sports is it has never been fair. The strongest, fastest and most skilled are offered the opportunity to compete at the highest level. Fair or not, football doesn't care how much you have contributed to the team, if you suffer an injury you are summerly discarded unless you have a guaranteed contract. We constantly hear in sports "next man up". Everyone is disposable. 

... After reading Revs comments, I reluctantly agree that there should be no exceptions. Again a hard pill to swallow for those that maybe started out with no disability and reached the highest level only to find a progressive disease has made it difficult to compete under the rules. I am unaware of any other sport that allows something against the rules because of a disability. Of course giving Casey Martin a cart is an advantage but that advantage does not offset his disadvantage. And this is where many of us feel for those with a disability and our first thoughts are "Yes, let them take a cart". But giving this much more thought and reading others responses it becomes clear that just like playing the game of golf that is not and never was meant to be fair, playing the game by the rules without exceptions should not be handled any differently than all other sports. That said, if I were the one giving Casey the news he is not allowed to use a cart I would feel like the biggest a$$hole in the world. 

I can refer to Jim Abbott as someone with a disability who was a star in the 90’s ... even tossed a no hitter with the Yankees.

Golf is just different. Other sports really don’t have a way to wedge themselves into this discussion. Maybe because it’s such an individual sport?

I respect ALL of your points and it’s easy to see where it would become personal.

Hope you guys have an excellent weekend I’m checking out on this one.

[downlowkey]

When the Casey Martin case was moving thru the appellate court 2 decades ago, I felt for the guy. Pondering equitable solutions, I subsequently drafted schematics for a low impact tricycle that could be geared such that one stroke of a push pedal would essentially equate to the effort of one typical walking pace. Casey would pump the pedal with his strong leg to transit the course and thus be equitably taxed (pulmonary/work capacity) at the end of a round. It’s not a perfect equation but the scenario outlined above would likely provide more defensible middle ground than an electric golf cart. And I personally feel the substantial resources that ultimately ended up in the lawyers pockets (no offense @Berg Ryman), would have been better utilized in the design of an “outside the box” vehicular platform. Moral of the story for me, compassion can be the springboard for ingenuity.

[revkev]

Sorry, but that is some serious reductio ad absurdum. If someone with a legitimate disability has the skill and talent to play at the highest level of professional golf, they shouldn't be put at a competitive disadvantage because of their disability. They should be given the opportunity to compete alongside the rest of the players on an even playing field. For Martin and JD, that involves the use of a cart while the rest of the field walks. There's no advantage to Martin and JD using a cart. They legitimately need it to be competitive.

 

 

Sent from my Pixel 2 using MyGolfSpy mobile app

 

 

If they can’t walk the course they don’t have the talent or ability to play professional golf. That’s my point. It’s part of the game on most professional tours

 

If you change the rules to make it not part of it as the champion’s tour has - then fine - but to allow someone to ride when everyone else must walk is not fair.

 

As somebody be has already pointed out a significantly disabled person played MLB and pitched a no hitter. He played according to the existing rules.

 

 

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using MyGolfSpy

[FrogginBullfish]

I can see we're never going to agree on this, so I'm going to tap out as I don't see any point to continuing.

 
If they can’t walk the course they don’t have the talent or ability to play professional golf. That’s my point. It’s part of the game on most professional tours
 
If you change the rules to make it not part of it as the champion’s tour has - then fine - but to allow someone to ride when everyone else must walk is not fair.
 
As somebody be has already pointed out a significantly disabled person played MLB and pitched a no hitter. He played according to the existing rules.
 
 
 
 
Sent from my iPhone using MyGolfSpy

Sent from my Pixel 2 using MyGolfSpy mobile app

[revkev]

Agreed

See you on another thread where we will agree on stuff


Sent from my iPhone using MyGolfSpy

[SteddyGolf]

I watched the Ben Hogan story tonight. Regardless of which side of the fence you fall on this issue I highly recommend you view this short film.


Sent from my iPhone using MyGolfSpy