Tiger is not the Devil

[HighFade]

I want to start by saying that before the "Massacre on Thanksgiving" I was NOT a Tiger fan. I've always liked Phil and Freddie. I always thought Tiger was a little too arrogant and stand-offish with the media, etc. But I never doubted his talent. With all the speculation about Tiger breaking Jack's 18 majors, I always thought of it as inevitable. He just had too much talent not to break the record.

 

BUT....

 

Since we all found out he was cheating on his wife, and was basically being a hound on the road, people have been calling for his head. By my own best guess, there are about 10 million guys in this country cheating on their wives. He's human like the rest of us. He just wasn't human on the golf course. Yes, he was and always will be held to a higher standard, but that doesn't mean he should be vilified for screwing up. The same way NFL and NBA players are thrown millions of dollars before they have the maturity to handle it, he was deified at a very young age. And guess what? He turned out to be an imperfect person.

 

He is living proof that golf is 90% mental. He still hasn't fully recovered, but he is showing us he has a lot of golf left. My heart will always root for Phil, but part of me wants him to get those last majors. But more than anything, I wish we would stop putting celebrities, athletes and politicians on a pedestal, then tearing them apart when we find out they're not gods.

[GolfSpy Barbajo]

Well put, HIghFade. Sadly, celebrities will always be put on pedestals -- that comes with the territory and it's as old a civilization. It's the tearing them down part that gets me...so Tiger cheated on his wife - that's between him, his wife and his maker. It was said in a different thread that the world would be a better place with a lot less judging of others.

 

I think you're right on about golf being 90% mental - you can tell (at least, as much as you can on TV) that maybe Tiger has lost his hubris, his mojo, or whatever it is you want to call it - and that's turned him into just another really good player. Yes, he's won twice, but so has Hunter Mahan.

 

Quick - name the movie: "you've got to play this game with fear and arrogance!"

[JohnBarry]

I don't think he's the devil at all, been rooting for him for years, although now, I have found a few more players I really root for more.

What I don't like is his interaction with the public, or the lack there of. Private person or not, your in a position where you have to interact with people, your an ambassador of golf, the PGA Tour and the brands you rep. Wise up!

[dru_]

In many ways, I find Tiger more interesting today than prior to everything.

 

Before everything came out, Tiger could go out there and kill it because he wasn't over thinking the game. He did all of his thinking outside of the tournaments, and when push came to shove, he was out there playing by instinct and repetition, and probably focused on what he was chasing that night.

 

Look at John Daly, a similar case of playing his best when he had the most distractions. He has never recovered since it all became public and he tried going clean.

 

These guys have been wired to those distractions and behaviors for so long that functioning without them is more detrimental than the behaviors themselves. Tiger for the last year has been working at it too hard. I know that for me, I can 'work' a swing until I'm blue in the face, but when I shut the brain off and just let it flow & fly, I play better golf.

 

Last night was a good example. I was wound tight from work when we went out. Was thinking about the game and mechanics and really focused on the swing. Cutting everything 15-25 yard off of center. About hole 6, I finally relaxed enough to just let it fly, and punched my best drive of the season. 310 yards, up hill, just a 5-10 foot fade around the trees leaving a about a 30 yard up and down to the green (which I promptly 3 putted )

 

https://dl.dropbox.com/u/24730914/images/IMG_0095.jpg

 

So yeah, it is mental, but the real question to me, is can Tiger find his game without the distractions that he has thrived with.

[JMiller]

Again, I really don't care what he does off the course, do I condone the actions absolutely not, but I'm also not a judgmental person that is his choice and his life not mine. "Talent" is something I'll leave for the other topic on "Talent" or "Potential" type thread.

 

As I have said before Tiger has been "standoffish" with the media on purpose, his on course personality was never an accident. Ben Hogan could have been considered "standoffish" since he regularly turned down autographs once he started hitting ball on the practice tee before his round at a tournament. Was quoted in saying to a lady that asked for one while on the practice tee "Sorry Ma'am I have already started my round." Modern media has changed the way we judge people and most of time we are judging based on maybe 10% of there true personality.

[GolfSpy WD]

My judgement of Tiger has everything to do with my son. I don't want to praise someone who acts like a dick in any way, be it his game or anything. I'd rather my son looks up to golfers like Bubba or Phil who are great players, but also good people. I can still admire someone's shots even if I don't root for them, but honestly the 18 majors record means very little to me.

 

The question to ask, if you had to follow only one golfer on the course, who would you pick? The guy who will ignore you or the guy who will give your son a tip of his hat and maybe an autograph?

[GolfSpy Barbajo]

My judgement of Tiger has everything to do with my son. I don't want to praise someone who acts like a dick in any way, be it his game or anything. I'd rather my son looks up to golfers like Bubba or Phil who are great players, but also good people. I can still admire someone's shots even if I don't root for them, but honestly the 18 majors record means very little to me.

 

The question to ask, if you had to follow only one golfer on the course, who would you pick? The guy who will ignore you or the guy who will give your son a tip of his hat and maybe an autograph?

 

That's a good question WD - I think both are good examples. Here's a guy who had it all, was universally admired but threw it all away because he seemingly didn't know who or what he was. He's admitted his mistakes and deserves a second chance. And over here is a guy who seems to get it -- is genuinely a nice guy and seems to have his life's priorities in order. I'd tell my kid: "chances are, son, you'll be both of those guys in your life - you may even be the first guy on your way to being the second guy...."

[GolfSpy WD]

That's a good question WD - I think both are good examples. Here's a guy who had it all, was universally admired but threw it all away because he seemingly didn't know who or what he was. He's admitted his mistakes and deserves a second chance. And over here is a guy who seems to get it -- is genuinely a nice guy and seems to have his life's priorities in order. I'd tell my kid: "chances are, son, you'll be both of those guys in your life - you may even be the first guy on your way to being the second guy...."

 

It's true that everyone deserves a second chance and it's important to pick yourself up after your mistake. However, I don't see Tiger as caring what others think about him and he remains aloof as hell. When his career is done, what will he have left other than enablers around him?

[GolfSpy Barbajo]

Another good question. And to quote another good movie, "The zenmaster said, 'We'll see.'"

 

For a free round of golf at a miniature golf course near you, name that movie!

 

That's what it comes down to for Tiger -- when the cheering stops, will he be remembered with admiration like Arnie or Jack? Or will people keep their distance, like they are with Barry Bonds?

 

We'll see...

 

Either way, it's his life...

[HighFade]

Bull Durham, and Charlie Wilson's war. Two classics. Ok, a classic, and a good movie.

[GolfSpy Barbajo]

Bull Durham, and Charlie Wilson's war. Two classics. Ok, a classic, and a good movie.

 

Yooda MAN!

[HighFade]

As far as we know, Phil and Bubba could be the biggest jerks in the world. I haven't met either of them. But they know How to play the game. They smile at the camera, give autographs to kids, etc.

[Matt Saternus]

As far as we know, Phil and Bubba could be the biggest jerks in the world. I haven't met either of them. But they know How to play the game. They smile at the camera, give autographs to kids, etc.

 

+5

 

I'm not saying I know one way or the other, but I'm not inclined to believe that they are or are not good people based on the way they act in front of the camera.

[GolfSpy WD]

As far as we know, Phil and Bubba could be the biggest jerks in the world. I haven't met either of them. But they know How to play the game. They smile at the camera, give autographs to kids, etc.

 

But really how to play the game is all that matters in all aspects of life, whether it's in front of a camera or not. We've all met douchebags who like to "keep it real" and typically they aren't upper management.

 

All we can go on is perceptions, that's how role models maintain their status and why it's such a betrayal when they break that perception.

[Moecat]

He's not the devil, but he could have made a deal with the devil in some form or another ... and now he's just paying the piper.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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[RookieBlue7]

I don't care about what he does off the course, to be honest. I don't think it's my, or anyone else's business other than his family and those closest to him. But, for comparison's sake, let's look at a few others from outside of golf.

 

Michael Jordan... It's been said his gambling got his dad killed, he cheated at least a million times and it's rumored he's a jackass off the court.

 

Kobe Bryant... Charged with rape, cheated on his wife multiple times, he is definitely an a-hole in public.

 

Chris Benoit (technically pro wrestling isn't a sport, but I'm going with it because they are athletes)... We all know what he did, killing his wife and children then himself...

 

Floyd Mayweather.... beat up his girlfriend and several security guards... going to prison

 

Sean Avery... general whack job, arrested after fighting an officer.. has threatened to kill people on the ice, etc...

 

There's lots of other examples but those came to mind off the top of my head. These guys aren't perfect, but it's not our business unless it's happening on the court, course, inside the arena, etc.

[GolfSpy WD]

I don't care about what he does off the course, to be honest. I don't think it's my, or anyone else's business other than his family and those closest to him. But, for comparison's sake, let's look at a few others from outside of golf.

 

Michael Jordan... It's been said his gambling got his dad killed, he cheated at least a million times and it's rumored he's a jackass off the court.

 

Kobe Bryant... Charged with rape, cheated on his wife multiple times, he is definitely an a-hole in public.

 

Chris Benoit (technically pro wrestling isn't a sport, but I'm going with it because they are athletes)... We all know what he did, killing his wife and children then himself...

 

Floyd Mayweather.... beat up his girlfriend and several security guards... going to prison

 

Sean Avery... general whack job, arrested after fighting an officer.. has threatened to kill people on the ice, etc...

 

There's lots of other examples but those came to mind off the top of my head. These guys aren't perfect, but it's not our business unless it's happening on the court, course, inside the arena, etc.

 

It's not our business to meddle with the lives of these people, all I'm saying is I don't have to like them. I see very little redeeming about anyone on this list.

[RookieBlue7]

My judgement of Tiger has everything to do with my son. I don't want to praise someone who acts like a dick in any way, be it his game or anything. I'd rather my son looks up to golfers like Bubba or Phil who are great players, but also good people. I can still admire someone's shots even if I don't root for them, but honestly the 18 majors record means very little to me.

 

The question to ask, if you had to follow only one golfer on the course, who would you pick? The guy who will ignore you or the guy who will give your son a tip of his hat and maybe an autograph?

 

I root for all of them, because I know how tough the game is as a player of it lol. I really don't care on a week to week basis who wins. I have some I watch and like more than others but I don't hate any of them.

 

That said, I hope my two sons don't look up to any athletes or tv personalities, nor care about getting their autographs. I would much rather them look up to me, as that lets me know I'm doing my job as a parent. Athletically, they can pattern themselves after their success if they'd like, or compare themselves to it. But for character, I hope they don't look outside our home for that.

 

And Tiger does sign autographs, shake hands, and speak with people when it's not during a competitive round. I've witnessed it first hand at Augusta and East Lake at the range and putting greens. In 2010, I witnessed, from no more than 15 feet, after he walked off of #9 and he removed his glove he was playing with on that Sunday. He got his Sharpie out of the bag from Stevie and signed it and handed it to a young boy in attendance(he was 6-7 at best). After #18, he then handed his ball he'd just holed to a young girl after signing it. He also responds to the patrons that are respectful of him when he's playing. Several times I've told him great shot and he's looked right at me and said thanks. He's a one track minded player when he's playing and tries to tune everything else out. If you want autographs and such, go for a practice round or stand by the putting green or range waaaaay before their tee time or well after they've played for the day. Remember, this is their jobs. Do you want people coming up harassing you at your job for an autograph or something? They're playing one round of golf for millions, it's a different level of pressure out there. I've seen others referred to as butt holes as well, including Mickelson and others. To that, I say if you want cordial golfers, go to a practice round. Don't expect them to be cordial when they're working. Some are, some aren't, depends on how well they're hitting it on a competitive day.

[Kanoito]

I'd rather my son looks up to golfers like Bubba or Phil who are great players, but also good people.

 

We got a pro in our club who says he knows Phil in person. He claims he is the biggest fake of all, double face, even more disgusting than Tiger.

And that's the thing, we only see nice Phil in front of the cameras. But what is he really like at home? Does he beat his wife? Does he cheat?

 

He could be a scumbag, but just because the media doesn't give him that much attention, it's a side of him we don't see.

 

Not saying Tiger is better than Phil or the other way around, it's not for us to judge, but the different levels of media exposure sure influence our perception.

[Shambles]

Given a choice I would watch Tiger. I go to a golf tournament to watch great golf shots and my chances of seeing such are pretty good with Tiger.

 

I dislike the idea of media produced role models. A child's role model is his parent whom he is exposed to and observes more hours of the day and night than anything else. It's unavoidable except by the active absence of that parent, in which case the next most available adult or a dominant peer becomes the role model. Media produced role models are just icing, artificial flavors. The core values are introduced and developed by the parent and the child's development will be guided by those values and habits he sees daily in his parents.

 

Tiger is a very good golfer. Nothing more. He is worth watching for good golf. Nothing more.

 

 

Shambles