L.A.B. DF3 Putters - 2024 Forum Review

[cnosil]

48 minutes ago, Rearviewmirror said:

There's a lot more to this, but my understanding is that square to the arc is effectively the same thing as path because the face is not torqueing open or closed - as you know, face angle is responsible for something like 80-85% of putt start line. If you set up square to target with a LAB putter, you can have every reasonable expectation that absent manipulation of the putter through the hands, it should return to square to target at the ball.

There's a very active Facebook group in case you want to ask your Q there - the inventor Bill Presse IV posts there with some regularity.

Squat to arc/path and square to target are two different things.  With the face being the majority determination of direction, the answer could be that minimal path variations will have no Impact.   If it tries to stay square to the target, isnt that actually torque.  
 

don’t want to ask in a Facebook group,   Wanted to ask the testers their perceptions and experiences.  

[jbern]

Since the announcement of being a DF3 tester, I've only logged two 9 hole rounds of golf, but my plan is to track my putting in more detail to see if I have tendencies or areas that I can focus. I'm currently using an iPhone "Numbers" spreadsheet to track this data and below is a screenshot of the my latest 9 hole rounds, which was the back 9 at Clark Lake Golf Course.

Legend:
Length is in feet.
Look = break (e.g. RL = Right-to-left, Up RL = Uphill right-to-left, etc.)
Miss/make = where I missed (e.g. SL = Short left, LL = Long left, etc.)

I have equations and charts set up for make % from certain distances, but with only two datasets, it doesn't make sense to show those yet. I'm still working on equations to categorize and make the data useful for everything else. Let me know if you have any suggestions.

[GolfSpy MPR]

23 hours ago, cnosil said:

  @GolfSpy MPR I know you have reduced yours, but it still isn’t close to zeroed out.   If the putter stays square to the path, doesn’t that mean you will launch the ball right or left based on path?  

It's not even really close to zero, unfortunately. On ExPutt, my putting path numbers so far run from 3°-6° out-to-in. For a "normal" putter, that ain't good, but it doesn't matter a ton (although it's aesthetically ugly). The reason it doesn't matter (I expect that @cnosil knows this, but passing it along for all readers) is that the less loft you have on the club you're using, the more that the face angle (more than path) becomes determinative of launch direction.

Again, it's established knowledge with all clubs that face-to-target is the biggest factor in the initial launch direction of the ball, and that face-to-path determines how much curvature (and which direction) is imparted.

But when you get to the putter, with (most of the time something like) 3-4° of loft, face-to-target accounts for something over 95% of start direction, and because the ball is rolling, there really isn't anything like meaningful "cut spin" or "draw spin" on putts.

For me, that means that although my path cuts across the ball, if I'm managing the face-to-target properly (and I do, mostly), I can still easily start putts on my intended line.

But if the L.A.B. physically insists on starting putts on the line of my path, I will be in big, big trouble (with my current technique).

We'll see. Tomorrow:

[CFreddie]

7 minutes ago, GolfSpy MPR said:

It's not even really close to zero, unfortunately. On ExPutt, my putting path numbers so far run from 3°-6° out-to-in. For a "normal" putter, that ain't good, but it doesn't matter a ton (although it's aesthetically ugly). The reason it doesn't matter (I expect that @cnosil knows this, but passing it along for all readers) is that the less loft you have on the club you're using, the more that the face angle (more than path) becomes determinative of launch direction.

Again, it's established knowledge with all clubs that face-to-target is the biggest factor in the initial launch direction of the ball, and that face-to-path determines how much curvature (and which direction) is imparted.

But when you get to the putter, with (most of the time something like) 3-4° of loft, face-to-target accounts for something over 95% of start direction, and because the ball is rolling, there really isn't anything like meaningful "cut spin" or "draw spin" on putts.

For me, that means that although my path cuts across the ball, if I'm managing the face-to-target properly (and I do, mostly), I can still easily start putts on my intended line.

But if the L.A.B. physically insists on starting putts on the line of my path, I will be in big, big trouble (with my current technique).

We'll see. Tomorrow:

This is an excellent way to describe it @GolfSpy MPR - I'm now a little anxious for your testing! 

[Cfhandyman]

Good news, the eagle has landed, aka my LAB rat putter is in country at the FedEx sort facility, 30 minutes from my house. I spoke to FedEx Canada, last night, and paid the necessary duties and taxes. Delivery still scheduled for later today. I think I’ll be “working” from the front porch today.  Still waiting to see the out for delivery notice.  It’s currently in their international shipment release area.  Only FedEx knows for sure.

Also, my wife has confirmed, that if I had ordered the L.A.B. DF3 putter in pink, it would definitely go in her bag. No discussion. So, I made the correct call and dodged a big bullet. 
 

[jbern]

1 hour ago, GolfSpy MPR said:

We'll see. Tomorrow:

Maybe the folks at FedEx consider Michigan's U.P. a different country and put your L.A.B. on a plane like @Cfhandyman's! 

Unfortunately, I received a notice that my estimated arrival date was moved from 5/4 to 5/6. So a certain individual in the lower peninsula of Michigan is feeling a little down at the moment! 

I did finalize my name selection for this guy last night:

Meet

She has a lot of qualities that are good for putting (forgetfulness being one of the biggest). Also, I used to be obsessed with the movie "Gone in 60 Seconds." For those not familiar with the movie, the characters basically name cars that they are planning to steal and all the names are female names. I have given female names to every item I've given a name to, so I'm going to stick with it for this test.

"Whoa, whoa, whoa! Hey! Relax. Take a deep breath." - Dory

 

[GolfSpy MPR]

15 minutes ago, jbern said:

Maybe the folks at FedEx consider Michigan's U.P. a different country and put your L.A.B. on a plane like @Cfhandyman's! 

Unfortunately, I received a notice that my estimated arrival date was moved from 5/4 to 5/6. So a certain individual in the lower peninsula of Michigan is feeling a little down at the moment! 

So I'm assuming it would make you feel worse that mine is listed as arriving early?

So for those following along at home: none of us were banking on L.A.B. generously expediting our putter orders. I honestly expected that I'd have at least a month to gather data with my Edel and Evnroll before the DF3 arrived. Now mind you: I'm not complaining. But I am hoping to do at least a second round of ExPutt/HackMotion/Blast data with each of my current putters today, and maybe also tomorrow before Shazam arrives.

[BreakfastBall15]

16 minutes ago, jbern said:

Maybe the folks at FedEx consider Michigan's U.P. a different country and put your L.A.B. on a plane like @Cfhandyman's! 

Unfortunately, I received a notice that my estimated arrival date was moved from 5/4 to 5/6. So a certain individual in the lower peninsula of Michigan is feeling a little down at the moment! 

I did finalize my name selection for this guy last night:

Meet

She has a lot of qualities that are good for putting (forgetfulness being one of the biggest). Also, I used to be obsessed with the movie "Gone in 60 Seconds." For those not familiar with the movie, the characters basically name cars that they are planning to steal and all the names are female names. I have given female names to every item I've given a name to, so I'm going to stick with it for this test.

"Whoa, whoa, whoa! Hey! Relax. Take a deep breath." - Dory

 

Excellent name choice. Just keep 1 putting just keep 1 putting... wait whats going on here what am I typing?

[Cfhandyman]

3 minutes ago, jbern said:

Maybe the folks at FedEx consider Michigan's U.P. a different country and put your L.A.B. on a plane like @Cfhandyman's! 

Unfortunately, I received a notice that my estimated arrival date was moved from 5/4 to 5/6. So a certain individual in the lower peninsula of Michigan is feeling a little down at the moment! 

I did finalize my name selection for this guy last night:

Meet

She has a lot of qualities that are good for putting (forgetfulness being one of the biggest). Also, I used to be obsessed with the movie "Gone in 60 Seconds." For those not familiar with the movie, the characters basically name cars that they are planning to steal and all the names are female names. I have given female names to every item I've given a name to, so I'm going to stick with it for this test.

"Whoa, whoa, whoa! Hey! Relax. Take a deep breath." - Dory

 

I'm absolutely loving "Dory"  Inspired choice and well done.  Isn't the U.P. considered "God's country"?  Very pretty up that way.  I hate to break it to you, my putter, almost went right by you and stopped in Romulus just outside the Detroit airport on its way to Mississauga (just west of Toronto).  I'm hoping I get it today, because I'm golfing tomorrow.  

[jbern]

15 minutes ago, GolfSpy MPR said:

So I'm assuming it would make you feel worse that mine is listed as arriving early?

 

4 minutes ago, Cfhandyman said:

I hate to break it to you, my putter, almost went right by you and stopped in Romulus just outside the Detroit airport on its way to Mississauga (just west of Toronto).

Wow guys, all this early delivery and close call posting is really making me feel better! (am I laughing or crying?)

But in all seriousness, it is very generous that LAB expedited things for the testers. I was going to make a first impressions blurb about the order-to-arrival time, but considering most people are waiting 4-6 weeks after ordering, it's not even going to be part of my first impressions equation anymore.

[Steve F]

1 hour ago, Cfhandyman said:

Good news, the eagle has landed, aka my LAB rat putter is in country at the FedEx sort facility, 30 minutes from my house. I spoke to FedEx Canada, last night, and paid the necessary duties and taxes. Delivery still scheduled for later today. I think I’ll be “working” from the front porch today.  Still waiting to see the out for delivery notice.  It’s currently in their international shipment release area.  Only FedEx knows for sure.

Also, my wife has confirmed, that if I had ordered the L.A.B. DF3 putter in pink, it would definitely go in her bag. No discussion. So, I made the correct call and dodged a big bullet. 
 

... "working" from the front porch. Hmmmm. Now just remember @Cfhandyman, there is NO tackling the FedEx drivers! Your advice to me!!! 

Can't wait to see it!!

[Cfhandyman]

@Steve F no tackling or chasing the FedEx guy today.  Just received this minutes ago.  It went from arriving on time to at local FedEx facility. Delivery now has been pushed back to tomorrow.  Mind you today was early delivery, as it was originally scheduled for tomorrow.  Which means that quiet guy out on the west coast, @GolfSpy SAM should get his today.  But like the others I have to commend the outstanding and exceptional service provided by L.A.B. in expediting this and building and shipping the putters within 5 days of order.  Truly remarkable and very much appreciated.  Even with delivery they chose expedited delivery.  To get it within a few days, simply outstanding.

[ILMgolfnut]

1 hour ago, Cfhandyman said:

@Steve F no tackling or chasing the FedEx guy today.  Just received this minutes ago.  It went from arriving on time to at local FedEx facility. Delivery now has been pushed back to tomorrow.  Mind you today was early delivery, as it was originally scheduled for tomorrow.  Which means that quiet guy out on the west coast, @GolfSpy SAM should get his today.  But like the others I have to commend the outstanding and exceptional service provided by L.A.B. in expediting this and building and shipping the putters within 5 days of order.  Truly remarkable and very much appreciated.  Even with delivery they chose expedited delivery.  To get it within a few days, simply outstanding.

Seeing Mississauga on your FedEx list was an interesting coincidence. Nine years ago today I ran in the Mississauga Marathon, which Facebook reminded me of with a photo memory of "flat Jeff" -- my marathon garb laid out on the hotel bed with my race number pinned to the shirt:

I think being a Marathon Maniac, as I was, is kinda like being a Spy: It marks you as being certifiably obsessed/insane/both. I got into the Maniacs at the very bottom level, which required two marathons in 16 days or three in 90 days. I ran the third one on the 90th day exactly. 

 

Edited May 2 by ILMgolfnut

[GolfSpy SAM]

So, this thing is as expected: fire. I'm not sure if I can express how much I love the size of this thing. I'll have some comparison shots later on, but wanted to give you all an introduction to: 

The Green Lantern (AKA Hal Jordan)

Not surprisingly, the build quality is supreme. The head cover is absolute class, and I LOVE the pistol grip. 

It's a classy piece of tech, and I cannot wait to putt with it!!

[cburins]

1 minute ago, GolfSpy SAM said:

So, this thing is as expected: fire. I'm not sure if I can express how much I love the size of this thing. I'll have some comparison shots later on, but wanted to give you all an introduction to: 

The Green Lantern (AKA Hal Jordan)

Not surprisingly, the build quality is supreme. The head cover is absolute class, and I LOVE the pistol grip. 

It's a classy piece of tech, and I cannot wait to putt with it!!

Wow great choice, Sam! That putting sight line is amazing. Can wait for the reviews  

[MattWillGolf]

5 minutes ago, GolfSpy SAM said:

So, this thing is as expected: fire. I'm not sure if I can express how much I love the size of this thing. I'll have some comparison shots later on, but wanted to give you all an introduction to: 

The Green Lantern (AKA Hal Jordan)

Not surprisingly, the build quality is supreme. The head cover is absolute class, and I LOVE the pistol grip. 

It's a classy piece of tech, and I cannot wait to putt with it!!

I may have taken liberties with the Green Lantern motto.
 

“In brightest day, in blackest night, no PUTT shall escape my sight. Let those who worship A 3-PUTT’s evil might beware my power…Green Lantern’s light!”

[Rearviewmirror]

6 hours ago, JoeCool said:

What is the name of the group?

"LAB Golf Putter Fan Club - Directed Force 2.1, DF3, Mezz 1, MezzMax, LINK"

[CFreddie]

13 minutes ago, GolfSpy SAM said:

So, this thing is as expected: fire. I'm not sure if I can express how much I love the size of this thing. I'll have some comparison shots later on, but wanted to give you all an introduction to: 

The Green Lantern (AKA Hal Jordan)

Not surprisingly, the build quality is supreme. The head cover is absolute class, and I LOVE the pistol grip. 

It's a classy piece of tech, and I cannot wait to putt with it!!

Wow, that thing is beautiful!!!!  

Getting so anxious awaiting the arrival of Chewie / Taz

[ILMgolfnut]

17 minutes ago, GolfSpy SAM said:

So, this thing is as expected: fire. I'm not sure if I can express how much I love the size of this thing. I'll have some comparison shots later on, but wanted to give you all an introduction to: 

The Green Lantern (AKA Hal Jordan)

Not surprisingly, the build quality is supreme. The head cover is absolute class, and I LOVE the pistol grip. 

It's a classy piece of tech, and I cannot wait to putt with it!!

En fuego! I like the green better than I thought I would.

[GolfSpy MPR]

So somewhere earlier up in this thread, I posted a link to the spreadsheet I'm using for indoor putting testing. I thought I'd take a moment here to explain what I'm tracking and how I'm weighting the scoring.

I'll get back to the ExPutt scoring later, but my entire process is built around the ExPutt Analysis feature. In the practice module, if you choose Analysis, the ExPutt will assign you 18 straight putts of distances between 10 and 50 feet. So for each testing session, I'll hit anywhere between 10-15 warmup putts with the putter I'm about to test (random distances) and then turn on the Analysis. I do the warmups while wearing the HackMotion and with the Blast sensor attached to my putter, but I do not track the data on the warmups; I only begin to track data on the 18 Analysis putts.

The first category for comparison in HackMotion. For those who don't know, the HackMotion sensor is worn on the lead wrist. For putting, it's measuring the amount of flexion/extension and ulnar/radial deviation throughout the stroke. The goal would be to have none: an utterly stable lead wrist. In my experience, flexion/extension affects putting results much more than ulnar/radial. So my scoring in the category, from the session summary page, are the percentage of putts within the range of tolerance. The HackMotion total is weighted 75% for flexion/extension and 25% for ulnar/radial.

The second section is Blast Motion. This is a small sensor that attaches to the top of the putter grip and tracks the putter motion. I have picked out five data points that, for me, correlate most with successful putting:

• Tempo: I'm aiming for a 2.0/1 ratio. The score is a combination of how close I am to 2.0/1 and the range between my highest and lowest ratios.
• Loft Change: Blast measures whether you are adding or taking loft off at impact vs address. I target 0.0 and again measure how far off from that I am and the delta between my highest and lowest loft change.
• Total Time: I aim for my entire stroke to take .9 seconds. My tendency is to take longer, and more time (for me) means more trouble.
• Face Angle: The Blast can't know where you're aiming, so it's measuring face angle relative at impact relative to address. Ideally, I'd like to aim at the hole and return the putter to that same line, so my target is 0. The reality is that I know I tend to aim to the right and pull putts.
• Lie Angle Change: Again, the goal here is to return the putter to impact without changing the lie angle from address. I'm tracking both the delta and the spread between the high and low numbers.

The final category is ExPutt. After completing the 18 holes, the ExPutt breaks the data into short (0-15'), medium (15-30'), and long putts (30-50'). (I don't know if 15' and 30' putts round up or down, which annoys me.)

For each length putt, it gives three data points:

• Distance: the ExPutt will tell you the distance you average short/long of the hole, and the standard deviation of your dispersion.
• Impact Angle: this is either the putter face angle or the ball launch angle (which will both be very similar, along with the standard deviation.
• Path: this is the putter path angle, again with the standard deviation.

I then average my HackMotion Score, my Blast Score, and my ExPutt score, and that is the session score for those 18 putts.

My goal is to do 10 of these sessions with each of the Edel EAS 4.0, the Evnroll Midlock ER11v, and the L.A.B. DF3. I had hoped to have the data done for the first two putters before the DF3 arrived, but given L.A.B.'s amazing promptness (not complaining), that's not going to happen. So far, I've done two sessions with each of the two putters:

The way I've built the spreadsheet, a perfect score would be 100. So there's certainly room for improvement, both in the putter and the one putting.

[Cfhandyman]

1 hour ago, GolfSpy SAM said:

So, this thing is as expected: fire. I'm not sure if I can express how much I love the size of this thing. I'll have some comparison shots later on, but wanted to give you all an introduction to: 

The Green Lantern (AKA Hal Jordan)

Not surprisingly, the build quality is supreme. The head cover is absolute class, and I LOVE the pistol grip. 

It's a classy piece of tech, and I cannot wait to putt with it!!

That looks absolutely amazing and even better than online.  Mr. Green Lantern go forth and one putt every hole.

[Cfhandyman]

34 minutes ago, GolfSpy MPR said:

So somewhere earlier up in this thread, I posted a link to the spreadsheet I'm using for indoor putting testing. I thought I'd take a moment here to explain what I'm tracking and how I'm weighting the scoring.

I'll get back to the ExPutt scoring later, but my entire process is built around the ExPutt Analysis feature. In the practice module, if you choose Analysis, the ExPutt will assign you 18 straight putts of distances between 10 and 50 feet. So for each testing session, I'll hit anywhere between 10-15 warmup putts with the putter I'm about to test (random distances) and then turn on the Analysis. I do the warmups while wearing the HackMotion and with the Blast sensor attached to my putter, but I do not track the data on the warmups; I only begin to track data on the 18 Analysis putts.

The first category for comparison in HackMotion. For those who don't know, the HackMotion sensor is worn on the lead wrist. For putting, it's measuring the amount of flexion/extension and ulnar/radial deviation throughout the stroke. The goal would be to have none: an utterly stable lead wrist. In my experience, flexion/extension affects putting results much more than ulnar/radial. So my scoring in the category, from the session summary page, are the percentage of putts within the range of tolerance. The HackMotion total is weighted 75% for flexion/extension and 25% for ulnar/radial.

The second section is Blast Motion. This is a small sensor that attaches to the top of the putter grip and tracks the putter motion. I have picked out five data points that, for me, correlate most with successful putting:

• Tempo: I'm aiming for a 2.0/1 ratio. The score is a combination of how close I am to 2.0/1 and the range between my highest and lowest ratios.
• Loft Change: Blast measures whether you are adding or taking loft off at impact vs address. I target 0.0 and again measure how far off from that I am and the delta between my highest and lowest loft change.
• Total Time: I aim for my entire stroke to take .9 seconds. My tendency is to take longer, and more time (for me) means more trouble.
• Face Angle: The Blast can't know where you're aiming, so it's measuring face angle relative at impact relative to address. Ideally, I'd like to aim at the hole and return the putter to that same line, so my target is 0. The reality is that I know I tend to aim to the right and pull putts.
• Lie Angle Change: Again, the goal here is to return the putter to impact without changing the lie angle from address. I'm tracking both the delta and the spread between the high and low numbers.

The final category is ExPutt. After completing the 18 holes, the ExPutt breaks the data into short (0-15'), medium (15-30'), and long putts (30-50'). (I don't know if 15' and 30' putts round up or down, which annoys me.)

For each length putt, it gives three data points:

• Distance: the ExPutt will tell you the distance you average short/long of the hole, and the standard deviation of your dispersion.
• Impact Angle: this is either the putter face angle or the ball launch angle (which will both be very similar, along with the standard deviation.
• Path: this is the putter path angle, again with the standard deviation.

I then average my HackMotion Score, my Blast Score, and my ExPutt score, and that is the session score for those 18 putts.

My goal is to do 10 of these sessions with each of the Edel EAS 4.0, the Evnroll Midlock ER11v, and the L.A.B. DF3. I had hoped to have the data done for the first two putters before the DF3 arrived, but given L.A.B.'s amazing promptness (not complaining), that's not going to happen. So far, I've done two sessions with each of the two putters:

The way I've built the spreadsheet, a perfect score would be 100. So there's certainly room for improvement, both in the putter and the one putting.

Superb job and very well done Michael.  Do the putters have a chance?  They will be Exputted, Hacked and Blasted.  It will give us a very good baseline for each.

[JoeCool]

1 hour ago, Rearviewmirror said:

"LAB Golf Putter Fan Club - Directed Force 2.1, DF3, Mezz 1, MezzMax, LINK"

Yeah that’s the same one I quoted the other day. An awful lot of LAB putters for sale there. 

[ILMgolfnut]

4 minutes ago, JoeCool said:

Yeah that’s the same one I quoted the other day. An awful lot of LAB putters for sale there. 

I just applied to join that page. Maybe getting a good deal on a used 2.1 would get me to pull the trigger.

[Rearviewmirror]

15 minutes ago, JoeCool said:

Yeah that’s the same one I quoted the other day. An awful lot of LAB putters for sale there. 

It's a lot like some of the Scottie Cameron collectors - people buy 3-4 and offload whatever they don't like. Or buy it hoping it'll cure all their putting problems without putting any work in.

[TJ Hall]

2 hours ago, GolfSpy SAM said:

So, this thing is as expected: fire. I'm not sure if I can express how much I love the size of this thing. I'll have some comparison shots later on, but wanted to give you all an introduction to: 

The Green Lantern (AKA Hal Jordan)

Not surprisingly, the build quality is supreme. The head cover is absolute class, and I LOVE the pistol grip. 

It's a classy piece of tech, and I cannot wait to putt with it!!

The green just pops so nicely against the white shaft!

[TSauer]

2 hours ago, GolfSpy SAM said:

So, this thing is as expected: fire. I'm not sure if I can express how much I love the size of this thing. I'll have some comparison shots later on, but wanted to give you all an introduction to: 

The Green Lantern (AKA Hal Jordan)

Not surprisingly, the build quality is supreme. The head cover is absolute class, and I LOVE the pistol grip. 

It's a classy piece of tech, and I cannot wait to putt with it!!

I know I'm going to say this to every single person who posts their DF3s, but man... it's a beauty! That green and white is such a good looking combo. 

[Josh Parker]

2 hours ago, GolfSpy SAM said:

So, this thing is as expected: fire. I'm not sure if I can express how much I love the size of this thing. I'll have some comparison shots later on, but wanted to give you all an introduction to: 

The Green Lantern (AKA Hal Jordan)

Not surprisingly, the build quality is supreme. The head cover is absolute class, and I LOVE the pistol grip. 

It's a classy piece of tech, and I cannot wait to putt with it!!

WOW!!  That is all

[JoeCool]

1 hour ago, ILMgolfnut said:

I just applied to join that page. Maybe getting a good deal on a used 2.1 would get me to pull the trigger.

Remember what they say about getting fitted. Just saying! Good luck!

[JoeCool]

1 hour ago, Rearviewmirror said:

It's a lot like some of the Scottie Cameron collectors - people buy 3-4 and offload whatever they don't like. Or buy it hoping it'll cure all their putting problems without putting any work in.

Exactly. Some of them proudly show pics of their collection: 7, 8 or 9 putters, all LAB, 4 of them DF3!!

WTF man!