Help needed for research paper.

[Chris O.]

Alright guys, so my professor said I could pick any topic I want for my research paper, so naturally I pick a golf related topic. The problem I think I want to focus on is the decline of golf in America and is the USGA helping or hurting the game. Honestly I don't know what side I stand on right now which is why I'm choosing this topic. So I want to hear your guys' opinions on the topic, and really any opinion is welcome. I need all the help I can get. 

 

A few questions that might help shape my paper are...

Would it help the game of golf to allow major OEM's to make non-conforming clubs? Is there pressure from the USGA on OEM's to not produce non-conforming clubs? Are there enough youth programs for kids that are interested in the golf? Is there a stigma that golf is only for "rich" people? Is there a way to change that if there is? 

[hckymeyer]

A few random thoughts, but it sounds like a very interesting paper!

 

The only thing stopping OEM's from making non-conforming equipment is supply and demand.  If they sold like hot cakes you can guarantee every OEM would be making a line of non-conforming equipment.  There actually are a fair number of non-conforming clubs available for purchase, but at this time it seems the consumer has spoken with their wallets and people aren't spending their money on them.

 

Youth programs - I think the first tee does a pretty good job with youth programs.  I'd love to see more of them, but most of the clubs I've played at actually do have some sort of youth program already.  It's how I started learning the game and I fully plan to have my kids do it too once they get old enough.  I think the hard part of youth golf is the cost of entry and social aspect of team sports.  It's hard to get a group of kids to go play golf together.  It's easy to get a pickup game of soccer/baseball/basketball/tag etc.  Yes you play in a foursome in golf, but at the end of the day it's a solitary sport and you have to choose to play it rather than allowing your friends to talk you in to playing kickball for an hour.

 

Once you reach a certain point in any sport it can get expensive.  Look at the cost of bats and glove in baseball, all the equipment for hockey, basketball shoes get up there.  However the initial cost of golf can be prohibitive.  At a minimum you are shelling out a couple hundred bucks for a full set unless they are hand me downs and then you have the cost of greens fee's.  Yes you can do it cheap and buy a garage sale set and go to a cheap par 3 course, but only if there is one close by that mom/dad will drive a kid to.  The barriers to entry for golf are much higher than other sports and that will limit the number of youths that can get in to the game.

 

Anyway that's just some random musing's on the subjects.  Best of luck with your paper!

[Chris O.]

A few random thoughts, but it sounds like a very interesting paper!

 

The only thing stopping OEM's from making non-conforming equipment is supply and demand.  If they sold like hot cakes you can guarantee every OEM would be making a line of non-conforming equipment.  There actually are a fair number of non-conforming clubs available for purchase, but at this time it seems the consumer has spoken with their wallets and people aren't spending their money on them.

 

Youth programs - I think the first tee does a pretty good job with youth programs.  I'd love to see more of them, but most of the clubs I've played at actually do have some sort of youth program already.  It's how I started learning the game and I fully plan to have my kids do it too once they get old enough.  I think the hard part of youth golf is the cost of entry and social aspect of team sports.  It's hard to get a group of kids to go play golf together.  It's easy to get a pickup game of soccer/baseball/basketball/tag etc.  Yes you play in a foursome in golf, but at the end of the day it's a solitary sport and you have to choose to play it rather than allowing your friends to talk you in to playing kickball for an hour.

 

Once you reach a certain point in any sport it can get expensive.  Look at the cost of bats and glove in baseball, all the equipment for hockey, basketball shoes get up there.  However the initial cost of golf can be prohibitive.  At a minimum you are shelling out a couple hundred bucks for a full set unless they are hand me downs and then you have the cost of greens fee's.  Yes you can do it cheap and buy a garage sale set and go to a cheap par 3 course, but only if there is one close by that mom/dad will drive a kid to.  The barriers to entry for golf are much higher than other sports and that will limit the number of youths that can get in to the game.

 

Anyway that's just some random musing's on the subjects.  Best of luck with your paper!

 

Now I ask because I need lots of info, so don't think I'm trying to pick fights in this thread because I'm not, I just need a full scope of views. But has a major OEM tried launching a non-conforming club (I'm going to start saying NCC)? I think it's one thing if a small company that most people haven't heard of launches a NCC, but if Taylormade or Callaway launch one with the marketing budgets they have, what would happen? Maybe they have tried and I just don't know, that's why I ask?

 

And maybe I shouldn't focus so much on NCC, but more on the "modern golfer" that has been brought up on the forum and blog before. I feel like golf is at pivotal spot with a bunch of great young golfers that young kids can watch and want to be like. How many kids want to be like Steph Curry as compared to Jordan Spieth? How does the sport of golf get to the point where people are as familiar with big name golfers as they are with big name NBA and NFL stars?  Question for everyone not just you. Don't want to put you on the spot haha. 

[fozcycle]

Maybe this article from Golf Digest will help you.

 

http://www.golfdigest.com/story/gwar-nonconforming-golf-clubs-0310

 

In the past, there have been some NCC's from Callaway....(ERC)

[revkev]

Given that I've actually taught at the college level (Well professional Master's Degree level) I'm wondering if the professor is going to accept information gathered here as a source or if you want us to point you to true sources as Foz has? 

 

Regardless I'll speak briefly to the last three questions.

 

1.  Most courses have some sort of youth program at them whether it's the First Tee or something home grown.  I've lived in four extremely diverse communities as a parent of children and there have been viable, affordable, sometimes ridiculously good youth programs in each of those communities including one held at Whistling Straits that was beyond belief!  ($135 for a week of one on five instruction, a piece of Nike equipment worth around that and a final round on the Straits course (or if you chose Black Wolf Run.))

 

2.  There is clearly a perception that golf is for rich people. 

 

3.  The debunking of that thought should not be difficult.  All sports cost money some more, some less.  Playing golf is not free because there is a cost for equipment and to maintain courses.  It is an affordable entertainment option though - mid priced really - by purchasing used equipment and playing at municipal courses  - the USGA should be touting that instead of patting itself on the back for holding its event at Public courses that cost $400 or taking a Public Course that used to be affordable and causing it's per round price to jack up over $100 per round.

 

Everything that I just gave you is very researchable for a paper.  Good luck and let us know how it turns out.  What's the course?

[hckymeyer]

Here's another article to read written by our very own Golfspy T 

 

http://www.mygolfspy.com/taylormade-non-conforming-illegal-clubs/

 

I haven't heard any more on the subject since this article came out so I'm assuming NCC from Taylormade isn't coming soon.

 

That said it still comes down to dollars.  For a major OEM to shift R&D and marketing dollars to a NCC club or club line it would have to take those dollars away from something else.  If a company could figure out the formula it might be worth millions of dollars, but so far there isn't anything going on in the market that says NCC clubs would be a huge success for a company.

 

Then you have the traditional manner is which most major OEM"s market their gear.  They have the pro's play it and promote it.  Claims of #1 on tour are everywhere and if a NCC line of clubs came out they would have to completely rething their marketing strategy and that alone is going to cost millions.

 

 

Next topic - popularity for youth.

 

Golf will never be as popular as NFL, NBA, MLB.  Bottom line - golf is boring to watch.  Go ask some non-golfing friends to come over and watch the Masters or the Fedex Cup playoffs.  Now ask some friends who've never played football to come over and watch the Superbowl.  I'm guessing those two parties have vastly different turnouts.  Unless you like golf you probably aren't going to watch it.  If young kids aren't watching golf then they aren't going to grow up and have golf idols.

 

BTW I had to google who Steph Curry was.  I had no idea and shows how much I follow basketball

[GolfSpy Barbajo]

Have a friend who's a teaching pro -- he believes golf is "right-sizing" itself - which isn't a bad thing.  He also introduced one of my favorite lines -- grow the golfer, and that will grow golf.  

 

I can put you in touch with him if you want -- he's also an excellent kids instructor and has a unique view on getting kids to love golf.  Have a few other people with ideas to get people to play more golf that might help you, beyond non-conforming equipment.  Sounds like an excellent topic.  PM me if you want contact info...

[jaskanski]

No

Yes

No

Yes

No

[hckymeyer]

No

Yes

No

Yes

No

Looks like that paper just wrote itself!

[jaskanski]

Looks like that paper just wrote itself!

 Ha ha lol - I guess explaining the hows and whys of those answers is the job of the OP.

[PlaidJacket]

1) No it wouldn't help. It would cheapen the game. But, if the USGA said anyone can build and sell anything they want..."it's all legal" you can bet Callaway, TM, etc would have them in stores tomorrow.

2) Probably.

3) Yes... there are plenty of youth programs. More in some towns less in others. Same with soccer, football, baseball, etc.

4) Probably. But it could be debunked easily. Is youth football, baseball, soccer only for poor kids?

 

Commentary:  Who says golf needs help? Who? What help exactly? For who? Is it the USGA? PGA? My club? The local packed muni? The ones needing help is the USGA, PGA, Big OEMs. But what help do they need? MONEY!! But does playing Golf as amateurs on a local level need help? I don't think so. I haven't noticed the televised events being cut to only one or two days because no one watches. I haven't noticed the pros pay checks getting smaller due to lack of interest-viewership. The ones calling for more Help are the USGA and perhaps the PGA. Probably should include the LPGA in the help list. What they're really calling for is more money. For them! Anyone remember watching Golf back in the 60's? For maybe a couple of hours on a Saturday or Sunday. Remember then they'd present the winner with the Giant check? For $25,000. Now they don't even dare to mention the money let alone the Giant check for $1,000,000!  My course is packed on the weekends. It's funny how our culture is all big time team sports - basketball, football, and wanna be soccer. I'd estimate most people don't play these sports past the 9th grade or at best high school. I can't even relate to them. But golf is a very different animal for sure. Every player in the super bowl gets a participation ring. But, only one guy gets a trophy in a golf tournament. Golf is what it is. If you don't like it or don't want to play it. Fine. Go play checkers or go bowling.

[Dhuck Whooker]

Conforming equipment, handicap system, the rules of golf, etc. provides all the means to compete on a level playing field.   The equipment as it is today is very forgiving, the golf balls are great, soft, durable, easier to control, big driver heads, fairway woods and hybrids are easier to hit than ever, and then the irons, some awesome stuff.   At some point, the human has to get involved and do something.  Hence I don't believe we need non-conforming equipment.

 

How about a compare/contrast on how a young person of humble means could grow and develop as a golfer as opposed to basketball player or football player.  Do the youth programs of golf really provide a means to success?  Are the youth programs for basketball, football, soccer, etc. more accessible?   

 

I don't believe that golf is only for the rich, but they do have access to much better facilities, no doubt.  I am not rich, never was, neither was my dad, but we chose to use our disposable income to play on a lot of nice public courses, go to practice ranges, buy equipment, balls, etc.  Then we went to work on Monday to make more money to play more golf.   

 

I'd be interested in this.  Does the typical Gen-X, or millennial (that has the name "Millen" in it, OMG) have the desire, patience, economic means,  to take up golf and stick with it?   What was different about the baby boomers, why are there more of us playing than the younger generations.   Is it that sports have changed, the all-year round dedication to one organized sport.  The minnies are focused too much on one sport?    Is a baby-boomer more patient than a millennial?  Is golf just boring for millennials?  Is it too hard?    What does the millennial do on the weekends anyway?  

 

I've been to a few outings with millennials, (the sons of my friends), it seems they are just like us BBs.  They love to golf, get mad when they hit bad shots, celebrate the good ones, flirt with the beer cart girl, the normal stuff,  the only difference I see is they listen to Drake while they play.

[~^~]

I don't agree you need "expert" resources to write a paper, which ultimately is to provide both sides of an opinion and argue the salient points of each. After all, who is an unbiased authoritative resource? The USGA has a bias. Journalists for golf magazines are biased. So asking contributors to a golf weblog is a legitimate source of opinions.

 

That said, I think oem would make NCC equipment if they could sell it, but the public has shown they want to buy the same equipment the pros play (unless you're a golf hustler, which is a minority ). So oem don't make NCC because it doesn't sell.

 

The USGA is hurting golf. They take a difficult game and make it more restrictive with a new bookfull of rules and interpretations each year. Now this year for the first time, they have outlawed rounds played alone, and for only the second time in history, defined a legal vs. Illegal putting stroke. Where will the restrictions end? Isn't golf hard enough? Where's the fun in telling someone his just-made putt was illegal? How about 600 bunkers with spectators tracking in them, and you blew the US Open because you grounded your club? Is that the USGA's idea of fun? There are those who will say such rules are necessary and good. But what is the goal? Enforcement of uniform standards, or growing the future population of golf? Do OEMs and the USGA share the same goals? Your paper must be an opinion piece, and a good paper will argue the best points of both sides, presenting a good case for each, and letting the reader make his own informed opinion. Good luck. We'd all like to read it.

[~^~]

Omitted double post.

[BIG STU]

I will give you a few opinions from where I stand. Most of it comes from comments I have read on this and one other site I frequent.

The decline of golf. It really depends on from what area of the USA you live in or Canada for that matter. Here I live in the self described "Golf Capital of the World" I do not see it declining at all of course this is a golf tourism driven area. Others frome other places I can see where it is declining.

I have to agree with GetaGrip 110% the USGA the supposedly guardian of the game is helping kill it with their recent rulings and BS. They are not really concerned about the game they are only concerned about their pocketbook. Like I previously stated I will NOT be renewing my membership. In fact I am so ashamed of them that I no longer wear their hats in public and have taken my numerous bag tags off of all my bags. I was a member for over 20 years but like I said NO MORE

Around here I do not see the First Tee doing that much but maybe they are doing their thing at courses I do not frequent. I think they have some kind of Junior golf program that plays tournaments and such that is not connected to the schools though. Now in other places up the road I see the schools have strong golf programs and there seems to be a lot more Junior tournaments than when I was growing up. It seems to me that they are doing more up in North Carolina with this than is being done here. The new big coming thing for schools down here seems to be LaCrosse 

Costs and general attitude in society. Everyone in the mainstream wants the latest and greatest what ever it may be and this attitude is passed on to the kids. When we ran the golf shop I saw on more than one occasion a Dad going to buy his kid some clubs. Usually this type of Dad did not know beans about the game. You would try to sell him a used set perhaps a couple of years old at a good price and the kid had done their research ( ain't the internet wonderful?) and would not have that old outdated stuff. And don't even mention custom clubs even if they were KZG or Wishon because they were not one of the "big 3". I run into that attitude all the time now with me playing my 35 year old irons as in duuuhhh antique irons and God Forbid my fairway woods are at least 15 years old! With this attitude most kids will not get in the game because they have to have the newest and it is costly.

Now on greens fees a lot of courses here give the under 16 crowd special rates if not free especially with an local school ID. Now golf is a hard game and no one will master it some have come close but no one has ever mastered it every day. It does take work and practice and today's younger generation wants "instant gratification" and that does not happen in golf.

Just some of my observations FWIW

[~^~]

Stu, funny, I also didn't renew my USGA membership and took off my bag tag. I believe their founding principles are misguided,  trying to preserve "the integrity of the game".  They sound like Judge Smaills of Bushwood Country Club.

 

Since I no longer have a HC, it's taken pressure off my game. If I have a bad round, I know it doesn't count as one of my last 20, and doesn't affect anything. 

 

Also -- my club is having its annual club championship next month. The championship committee just sent out an email,  saying its been brought to their attention that members are not posting every round played, per the USGA, and that the committee will take action by posting penalty scores to offenders' HC. Just goes to show that many so-called serious golfers who crow about the decline of the game are themselves at fault.  Ironic,  isn't it?

[~^~]

I hope this information /opinion is helpful for your research paper. I believe the USGA Handicap system is flawed because it's based on the assumption that ALL golfers are honest. It only takes one cheater in a tournament to skew the results. I've watched guys three-jack a par 5 they reached in two, just to preserve a 16hc. I no longer play in hc categories or events; I compete by gross score or not at all. I don't need to compete every time I step on the course. I just try to enjoy myself. Cheers!

[BIG STU]

I hope this information /opinion is helpful for your research paper. I believe the USGA Handicap system is flawed because it's based on the assumption that ALL golfers are honest. It only takes one cheater in a tournament to skew the results. I've watched guys three-jack a par 5 they reached in two, just to preserve a 16hc. I no longer play in hc categories or events; I compete by gross score or not at all. I don't need to compete every time I step on the course. I just try to enjoy myself. Cheers!

It has always been flawed for the reasons you stated. What needs to be done at the local level is to play a qualifier or flight round like they used to do. Now if you sandbag and break out of your bracket by a reasonable amount then you are DQed period. I do not play any handicap events period have not done so in 40 years or more for the above mentioned reason.  I play in a couple of charity scrambles a year but that is it and besides everyone knows scrambles are cheatfests. the last ruling by the USGA on the handicap thing about posting rounds played alone that was the last straw for me even though I do not keep a legimate handicap. I guess that was put in to curb the cheaters. A thief is going to steal and a cheater is going to cheat think about it. If the Police can't make a dent in theft how is the almighty USGA going to police cheating? I do my handicap thing through a service thing that is free so that is how I came up with the 5 on my profile. Really if you want to get technical it is not legit because I play older irons that have never been tested and "approved". I know they were conforming at the time they were built in 1980 to the rules in effect for the time. The crowds I play with do not give 2 hoots whether they are conforming or not

[BK in TEXAS]

 

Around here I do not see the First Tee doing that much but maybe they are doing their thing at courses I do not frequent.

 

I'm writing this for the OP as much as in reply to your post......

 

The First Tee is big here in Greater Houston.  The HGA (Houston Golf Association) runs all 6 First Tee locations around Houston and are doing a fantastic job.  The 5 Saturday programs at our location have about 300 kids in them.  I do not know the enrollment of the other programs but if the OP wants to talk to the Director I can give him the number. 

 

Houston is a big city and we have everything from the richest of the rich to the poorest of the poor.  Our location has made golf accessible and affordable to all kids.  Basically......you get here and you get to play.  There is a shed full of clubs for kids to borrow for the day, longer if you've been around a while.  We have 2 chipping greens (with sandtraps), a super-sized putting green, 2 driving ranges and a 9 hole private course.  You have to be enrolled in the First Tee to Play.  It's all 100% free.  Range balls - Free.  Greens fee - Free.  Classes - Free.  Lessons - Free.  All kids have to do is show up.  Literally.

 

Junior golfers who come here learn life skills side by side with golf skills....it is a fantastic place to spend a few hours or a whole Saturday.  The HGA has made this possible with a few paid positions and an army of volunteers willing to give a few hours a week for the kids.  Only so much can be done from an office, or behind a computer screen.  For those wanting to make a difference, go out and give a couple hours a week at your local First Tee Chapter.   I don't know if The First Tee is growing the game, but it IS making a difference for many kids here in Houston. 

[BIG STU]

^^^ Man that is GREAT!   I think like I previously posted it has a lot to do with the area and environment. Here we are more tourist driven in the golf industry. Now one of my wife's vendors (she is the receiver for a major grocery store) is actively involved in some kind of Junior league and they go off and travel around and play tournaments. I have told her to tell him if any underpriviliged kids want to play and can't afford clubs or any kind of equipment to give me a call. If any of them need any club work done to call me and I will do it for free. I do not think there are any needy kids in that bunch though. I have seen a couple of kids in that league around and they have stuff that would compaire to any tour pro out there. I know that vendor told my wife the other day he went to Golfsmith and bought his kid a new Betti putter.

[revkev]

The First Tee is huge and I mean huge in St. Pete.  It even offers a school in conjunction with Chi Chi Rodriquez - it is a great organization beyond a doubt.  What it does down here goes well beyond golf. 

[revkev]

Back at Get a Grip my question is would the Prof accept us as experts or quotable sources - that's all that matters here.  He's king of his classroom and if the King says go - by all means. 

 

I'd hate to see Chris do a lot of work for nothing and just want to make sure that he has covered his bases.

[apprenti23]

Here's one for you:

 

Is the "decline" you speak of a good thing or a bad thing for the game of golf? Are the numbers brought forth by the Tiger boom achievable goals or not? Does the game of golf really need growing or are we getting healthier with this decline?

[Chris O.]

Alright guys first of all thanks for all of your input and opinions. It's great to get different ideas and use each other as sounding boards. I would reply to all of you individually if I had that much time but I don't...so I'll just kinda skim through a few things. Rev, I can use a few things from here for sources, I need at least 10 different sources and at least 4 of those need to be scholarly reviewed papers. Those might be hard to find but our university has a few different databases we have access to, so something should probably be in there. The course is just a 2010 english class, I'm waiting to hear back to see if I am accepted into the nursing program here, so I am retaking a couple classes just to fill my schedule. 

 

I'm thinking the NCC idea isn't going to get me very far...

 

It is good to hear that there are so many large youth programs in different area's. Here in Southern Utah we are kind of a smaller market and most of the golfers are older and only live here part of the year. We have a pretty awesome summer program for junior golfers, but it's mostly good deals on rates and not a whole lot of clinics. So because we don't have the First Tee here I have some questions. Do they work in conjunction with the USGA. How are they funded? And how could I possibly help it get started here?

 

The rule changes are things that do bug me. I understand that the game needs a governing body to protect the game itself, but some changes were unnecessary IMO. Anchor ban? No solo rounds? How far is too far when some of these changes happen? 

 

The people that said they have good contacts in the game I'll PM you for more info. Luckily I've worked at some of the courses here and have pretty good relationships with most of the pro's around here. But I need all the info I can get, so thanks again everyone. 

[Chris O.]

Here's one for you:

 

Is the "decline" you speak of a good thing or a bad thing for the game of golf? Are the numbers brought forth by the Tiger boom achievable goals or not? Does the game of golf really need growing or are we getting healthier with this decline?

 

 

Have a friend who's a teaching pro -- he believes golf is "right-sizing" itself - which isn't a bad thing.  He also introduced one of my favorite lines -- grow the golfer, and that will grow golf.  

 

I can put you in touch with him if you want -- he's also an excellent kids instructor and has a unique view on getting kids to love golf.  Have a few other people with ideas to get people to play more golf that might help you, beyond non-conforming equipment.  Sounds like an excellent topic.  PM me if you want contact info...

 

These are great points that I've never thought about. I'm young and apart of that "Tiger Boom" era. I started playing the game because of him. But did the boom get too big? And is the golf media just making it look like golf is declining? Here, we have only had one course close down, and a few other communities never get finished, but that was more because of the market crash in '08, not the state of golf. We are a unique area because we can play golf 12 months a year, so a lot of people that live in the Salt Lake area come here to play in the winter. So I don't really know how well the game of golf is in other places. But from everyone else's responses, it sounds good. 

[revkev]

Let us know how the paper turns out. My undergrad was Music Ed with a minor in American history. For music you do a recital on your major instrument (stress city). For history I did a research paper on Babe Ruth. All of my research was at the library in Cooperstown. That was fun! This project sounds like fun for you.

[BK in TEXAS]

 So because we don't have the First Tee here I have some questions. Do they work in conjunction with the USGA. How are they funded? And how could I possibly help it get started here?

 

 

Starting a chapter isn't easy but here is the link for info....

http://www.thefirsttee.org/club/scripts/library/view_document.asp?NS=PUBLIC&DN=FAQ

 

The USGA supports The First Tee through money and grants, but otherwise they're not directly involved as far as I know.

[Looper4life]

It isnt up to the USGA. We as golfers must encourage our Courses and fellow golfers to promote, recruit and attract the non-prototypical golfer. Here in Wisconsin Soccer Golf is growing huge, 10 inch cup tourneys are another example of how courses are opening thier minds. I heard a 4 some of 55+ men snickering about a guy on the practice green with some old jankity clubs and a tommy bahama type shirt on. The guy overheard and was visibly bothered and walked off the course. This was a junk public course and ive caddied at the best clubs in Wisconsin.But this Old Boys Club mentality is what kills the game. Christ, Women have been banned from clubs until recently....