Dechambeau to TaylorMade ?

[ballhawk]

 

[Splatt]

I think Bryson will struggle to find an OEM willing to sign him up. He's notoriously difficult to work with.

[GolfSpy_APH]

17 minutes ago, Splatt said:

I think Bryson will struggle to find an OEM willing to sign him up. He's notoriously difficult to work with.

Exactly. I don't see why any OEM would want to. 

He doesn't play on the more prominent tour. 

He has a history of bad mouthing the product which he is being sponsored by.

He doesnt use half the brands he is sponsored by. I'll try and find that tweet. 

He is extremely specific in his needs for equipment and they don't exactly cross over to the general public so that R&D is essentially just for him. 

I believe he will remain a free agent for the remainder of his career. 

[Splatt]

22 minutes ago, GolfSpy_APH said:

Exactly. I don't see why any OEM would want to. 

He doesn't play on the more prominent tour. 

He has a history of bad mouthing the product which he is being sponsored by.

He doesnt use half the brands he is sponsored by. I'll try and find that tweet. 

He is extremely specific in his needs for equipment and they don't exactly cross over to the general public so that R&D is essentially just for him. 

I believe he will remain a free agent for the remainder of his career. 

100%

There was something about this on the NLU pod this week. I don't think they mentioned the OEM specifically, but something along the lines of, 'we don't have the manpower to keep up with Bryson's demands'.

If that's true, I imagine there'd be common sentiment across other OEM's

[GolfSpy_APH]

12 minutes ago, Splatt said:

100%

There was something about this on the NLU pod this week. I don't think they mentioned the OEM specifically, but something along the lines of, 'we don't have the manpower to keep up with Bryson's demands'.

If that's true, I imagine there'd be common sentiment across other OEM's

It was one of the Cobra guys and essentially they said good riddens! There was more on the LIV side too, but it sounded like a nightmare to work with and someone who simply didn't have it all figured out. Same thing for when he got so much bigger, he hurt himself and realized he had to change back to a healthier way. 

There is no magic cheat code in golf. It takes hard work and skill. He certainly has proven that he is skilled with all his wins and there is no question he works hard. However not sure if he was working hard at the right things?

I admit I miss Bryson on tour. He made for a good story line as a polarizing player. Whether it be his putting style, one length irons or bulking up and more. However I don't feel bad for him getting into this spot. It is on him and he has more than enough money to buy whatever clubs he wants. 

To me the story would more be who will commit to making new irons for him and will cobra continue making them or will they slowly phase them out?

[Splatt]

Yeah, I think Bryson definitely got caught up in chasing size and distance.

Big loss for the tour whether you like him or not. 

[russtopherb]

2 hours ago, Splatt said:

100%

There was something about this on the NLU pod this week. I don't think they mentioned the OEM specifically, but something along the lines of, 'we don't have the manpower to keep up with Bryson's demands'.

If that's true, I imagine there'd be common sentiment across other OEM's

I was just going to post this. Word has been out for quite some time about Bryson's unreasonable demands. He's burned a lot of bridges with Cobra after all they've done for him, and other OEMs have noticed. 

[xOldBenKenobiX]

I for one was very disappointing when Bryson decided to leave the PGA tour, his approach to every course to bomb it as far as he could and then try to pitch into the green from what ever lie he had was an awesome way to see the course being played.

I do think that OEMs will try to stay away from him because of the cost/benefit of sponsoring him, how much are they going to be spending on R&D to end up being criticized by their own player who is playing on a tour that nave limited exposure on their biggest markets?

Still I miss watching him playing on the Regular PGA tour.

[GolfSpy_SHARK]

Never really enjoyed him, complaining spoiled child comes to mind.

if they were to sign him would feel like trying to just sign names to broadcast their product….don’t think they need any more high profile names.

[null]

I doubt anyone signs him to any sort of deal.

He put the TMaG driver in play, but he was also in Arizona at Ping HQ doing some testing.  He is a free agent and I expect him to remain that way.  I don't see any of the OEMs spending NEW money on guys that aren't on the PGA Tour because the players just aren't in the public eye on LIV. 

[RickyBobby_PR]

2 hours ago, Splatt said:

Yeah, I think Bryson definitely got caught up in chasing size and distance.

Big loss for the tour whether you like him or not. 

The size was needed to have the stability and strength to hold up with the speed training and to maintain that on the course. When one looks at the numbers being closer to the hole is better than be further away from it. He and every pro knows that and he looked for a way to be closer to the hole. He and his coach also spent lots of time with Chris Como who is focused on biomechanics in the swing so that what he was doing was being done correctly.

He talked about the injuries in an interview last year and mentioned how some would go directly to his size and speed training as the cause but noted that his issues were already existing and that there may be some aspect of that training having a role. But one of his injuries came from playing ping pong.

Granted it’s a different game when it comes to long drive and they don’t necessarily have the same wear and tear on their bodies as touring pros but they cream of the crop are all very big and very strong and most if not all of them are doing heavy compound lifts. 

[cnosil]

4 hours ago, GolfSpy_APH said:

 

He doesnt use half the brands he is sponsored by. I'll try and find that tweet. 

 

here is an article that discusses and references the Tony Covey tweet that said he doesn’t play Cobra ( but sponsorship had ended), LA Golf (playing project X), or Flightscope (uses GC Quad)
 

https://golfweek.usatoday.com/2023/02/09/bryson-dechambeau-visits-ping-further-cobra-puma-sound-off/?taid=63e4f310a72da80001bd99bf&utm_campaign=trueAnthem%3A+Trending+Content&utm_medium=trueAnthem&utm_source=twitter

Brysons general statement about drivers in general was: “ Technology is not up to par with the way golfers can perform at high speeds,” he said. “Anything over 185 mph – good luck trying to control it right now.”

“We’re still on a pursuit to who can make a driver that can work it at 200 anywhere and everywhere on the face and still goes in the fairway. When that day comes, that’s going to be eye-opening for a lot of individuals because they will be optimizing ball speeds at 195, which can fly 360 yards. And that’s going to change the game forever. But we’re not there yet.”

[Headhammer]

I agree with others, no major OEM is gonna touch him, but there will be some overseas company or start-up willing to give it a go. Huge missed opportunity by the World's Longest Driver!

 

[ballhawk]

We’re still on a pursuit to who can make a driver that can work it at 200 anywhere and everywhere on the face and still goes in the fairway. When that day comes, that’s going to be eye-opening for a lot of individuals because they will be optimizing ball speeds at 195, which can fly 360 yards. And that’s going to change the game forever. But we’re not there yet.”

 

Just a thought, what if Wilson re-introduced a new driver with the fat shaft. Could very well be that game changer.........

[null]

1 hour ago, ballhawk said:

We’re still on a pursuit to who can make a driver that can work it at 200 anywhere and everywhere on the face and still goes in the fairway. When that day comes, that’s going to be eye-opening for a lot of individuals because they will be optimizing ball speeds at 195, which can fly 360 yards. And that’s going to change the game forever. But we’re not there yet.”

 

Just a thought, what if Wilson re-introduced a new driver with the fat shaft. Could very well be that game changer.........

A shaft has very little to do with the driver head not producing the same ball speed all over the face.  Think of a trampoline - just by physics there is more flex in the middle than there is around the sides.  Companies are doing their best to offset those losses around the perimeter by moving around weight and using variable face thickness, but there are diminishing returns.

[RickyBobby_PR]

36 minutes ago, ballhawk said:

We’re still on a pursuit to who can make a driver that can work it at 200 anywhere and everywhere on the face and still goes in the fairway. When that day comes, that’s going to be eye-opening for a lot of individuals because they will be optimizing ball speeds at 195, which can fly 360 yards. And that’s going to change the game forever. But we’re not there yet.”

 

Just a thought, what if Wilson re-introduced a new driver with the fat shaft. Could very well be that game changer.........

Not a shaft issue at all. It’s a head and face design issue 

[ballhawk]

Since the driver COR is at it's legal limits and OEM's have moved weighting all over the head, the only thing left to deal with the kind of swing speeds being suggested is the shaft, which they considered the "engine". The fat shaft was supposed to stabilize the head (less twist at impact) and if that is/was true, then it stands to reason, that they should be able to stabilize the weighting of the head. Now I'm fairly sure that the OEM's could offer up something, but I think the USGA is dead set against allowing anything related to more distance equipment wise.   

[RickyBobby_PR]

28 minutes ago, ballhawk said:

Since the driver COR is at it's legal limits and OEM's have moved weighting all over the head, the only thing left to deal with the kind of swing speeds being suggested is the shaft, which they considered the "engine". The fat shaft was supposed to stabilize the head (less twist at impact) and if that is/was true, then it stands to reason, that they should be able to stabilize the weighting of the head. Now I'm fairly sure that the OEM's could offer up something, but I think the USGA is dead set against allowing anything related to more distance equipment wise.   

COR isn’t used anymore, it’s CT

Anyone that considers the shaft the engine is wrong. 

Give this a read

https://www.golfwrx.com/6419/tom-wishon-talking-to-wrx-readers-10-myths-about-shafts-factual-info-about-shafts-to-help-you-all/

As for what Bryson is talking about it’s going to be about is head related. It’s stability of the head and gear effect and how to improve it for those with high ball speeds along with spin and launch control. He messed with a head that was turned down to 4.5 to help with that. 

[John S]

Cobra made a pretty big bet on one-length clubs based on Dechambeau's "theories".  Dechambeau, in my opinion, has made a living off the bomb and dig approach.  His one-length club "theory"  has not resulted in wide appeal so Cobra has not benefited from broad market acceptance.   I would assume that rolling out the one-length line has resulted in a financial loss for Cobra and they will probably drop this program at some point in the near future.  This is just an assumption however I have not seen any indications that players are moving in this direction.  The one-length clubs seem to have limited appeal and have failed to achieve any degree of wide-scale acceptance

DeChambeau's exceptional length may be a plus in marketing drivers and that may be the reason Taylormade is interested in his endorsement.--

His length may have had an impact on the wider acceptance of Cobra drivers so that may be the rationale for Taylormade signing him.  When you- combine the narrow acceptance of the  "one length club" theory and the fact he is no longer a high-visibility player due to his move to LIV it is hard to understand the appeal DeChambeau has to the Taylormade brand.  I actually had to look up LIV stats just to get an idea of what his recent form looks like.  He dropped off the radar for me.  

[GolfSpy_APH]

14 minutes ago, John S said:

Cobra made a pretty big bet on one-length clubs based on Dechambeau's "theories".  Dechambeau, in my opinion, has made a living off the bomb and dig approach.  His one-length club "theory"  has not resulted in wide appeal so Cobra has not benefited from broad market acceptance.   I would assume that rolling out the one-length line has resulted in a financial loss for Cobra and they will probably drop this program at some point in the near future.  This is just an assumption however I have not seen any indications that players are moving in this direction.  The one-length clubs seem to have limited appeal and have failed to achieve any degree of wide-scale acceptance

DeChambeau's exceptional length may be a plus in marketing drivers and that may be the reason Taylormade is interested in his endorsement.--

His length may have had an impact on the wider acceptance of Cobra drivers so that may be the rationale for Taylormade signing him.  When you- combine the narrow acceptance of the  "one length club" theory and the fact he is no longer a high-visibility player due to his move to LIV it is hard to understand the appeal DeChambeau has to the Taylormade brand.  I actually had to look up LIV stats just to get an idea of what his recent form looks like.  He dropped off the radar for me.  

Going to push back on the one length being a financial loss. According to several reps and more the one length irons have been a massive success for them. @Golfspy_CG2 had more numbers on it, but there was a staggering amount of one length sold and it was in the majority compared to their other sets. 

It may not be their long term project anymore, not really having an ambassador for it, but I think they did an amazing job making the most of a unique product. 

[John S]

6 minutes ago, GolfSpy_APH said:

Going to push back on the one length being a financial loss. According to several reps and more the one length irons have been a massive success for them. @Golfspy_CG2 had more numbers on it, but there was a staggering amount of one length sold and it was in the majority compared to their other sets. 

It may not be their long term project anymore, not really having an ambassador for it, but I think they did an amazing job making the most of a unique product. 

 

[RickyBobby_PR]

37 minutes ago, John S said:

Cobra made a pretty big bet on one-length clubs based on Dechambeau's "theories".  Dechambeau, in my opinion, has made a living off the bomb and dig approach.  His one-length club "theory"  has not resulted in wide appeal so Cobra has not benefited from broad market acceptance.   I would assume that rolling out the one-length line has resulted in a financial loss for Cobra and they will probably drop this program at some point in the near future.  This is just an assumption however I have not seen any indications that players are moving in this direction.  The one-length clubs seem to have limited appeal and have failed to achieve any degree of wide-scale acceptance

DeChambeau's exceptional length may be a plus in marketing drivers and that may be the reason Taylormade is interested in his endorsement.--

His length may have had an impact on the wider acceptance of Cobra drivers so that may be the rationale for Taylormade signing him.  When you- combine the narrow acceptance of the  "one length club" theory and the fact he is no longer a high-visibility player due to his move to LIV it is hard to understand the appeal DeChambeau has to the Taylormade brand.  I actually had to look up LIV stats just to get an idea of what his recent form looks like.  He dropped off the radar for me.  

TaylorMade hasn’t signed him. He had a TM driver in the bag while in Saudi and was at Ping HQ last week

[cnosil]

36 minutes ago, John S said:

His length may have had an impact on the wider acceptance of Cobra drivers so that may be the rationale for Taylormade signing him.  When you- combine the narrow acceptance of the  "one length club" theory and the fact he is no longer a high-visibility player due to his move to LIV it is hard to understand the appeal DeChambeau has to the Taylormade brand.  

You seem to be implying that Bryson has signed with TM.  He is playing their driver, but I haven’t seen any evidence that he is a TM sponsored player. 

[John S]

I am using the Golf Datatech stats that show the entire one-length club market represents a 2 percent market share.   2% is not insignificant however it seems low to support the production, tooling, and unique marketing required to support this unique product line. This seemed like a somewhat hot topic when Bryson was on a bit of a "tear", winning the Open etc, however, in my opinion. the topic has seemed to have cooled off.  THat is just an opinion however I would suggest that other manufacturers ( aside from Cobra) would have jumped in by now with a line of one-lenght clubs if their research indicated upside potential

I actually installed a set of one-length shafts in some older iron heads to see if this would work for me.  I found the distance gaps between irons to be very different from conventional irons and I could not make sense club to club-   THat was just my experience but I ended up pulling the shafts in a week's time.  

[GolfSpy_APH]

3 minutes ago, cnosil said:

You seem to be implying that Bryson has signed with TM.  He is playing their driver, but I haven’t seen any evidence that he is a TM sponsored player. 

Correct he hasn't (at least publicly) signed with TM. 

I wouldn't be surprised to see him play a variety of different drivers this year as he searches for his .

[russtopherb]

26 minutes ago, GolfSpy_APH said:

Going to push back on the one length being a financial loss. According to several reps and more the one length irons have been a massive success for them. @Golfspy_CG2 had more numbers on it, but there was a staggering amount of one length sold and it was in the majority compared to their other sets. 

It may not be their long term project anymore, not really having an ambassador for it, but I think they did an amazing job making the most of a unique product. 

Nailed it. The previous quoted post is based on a lot of incorrect assumptions. One Length has been a good seller for Cobra. Not a huge seller on par with a Callaway or TaylorMade iron line, but good enough for them to continue to roll it out and expand on it. That will continue. Who knows - maybe with Bryson out of the picture they might sell even more.

[cnosil]

4 minutes ago, John S said:

I actually installed a set of one-length shafts in some older iron heads to see if this would work for me.  I found the distance gaps between irons to be very different from conventional irons and I could not make sense club to club-   THat was just my experience but I ended up pulling the shafts in a week's time. 

One length is more than just the shaft length and wouldn’t work with conventional heads.  Everything I have read, you need to significantly alter the head weights to fix the distance gaps.  

[John S]

You are correct, I did assume Bryson signed on with Taylormade.  I could be wrong.  I am using the logic for the PGA tour where virtually every prominent player that swings a club has an endorsement deal to do so.  

[cnosil]

4 minutes ago, John S said:

You are correct, I did assume Bryson signed on with Taylormade.  I could be wrong.  I am using the logic for the PGA tour where virtually every prominent player that swings a club has an endorsement deal to do so.  

Most are; easy source of revenue.  Brooks Koepka is a prime example of a player that played without a major club sponsor. 

[John S]

You are correct on the unique weights/lofts specs for  one length heads.  I was attempting to get an idea of the potential benefits.  I set the weights at d2 just to get some idea-  It just was not something I wanted to pursue.   The biggest issue I had was with the short irons.  Additional length changes so many things - Set up changes if you want to maintain angle of attack ( as compared to conventional irons)    I just did not see the benefits.  Of course I have been playing for over 50 years so maybe it is just a case of trying to teach an old dog a new trick-  

I am finding great success with adapting to lighter graphite shafts in conventional irons-  That is the direction I have headed in as opposed to the wholesale change to one length.  Even if they work I probably do not have enough time left to learn how to master them.