Chipping: Numbers or Art or Both?

[GolfSpy_APH]

Little background - Played today with what I am guessing is a slightly newer golfer. Was making good swings and playing well, but either had to have his phone out for yardage or when that died took the range finder to shoot the flag. This included when we were side by side about 25 yards from the green. 

Although not a bad thing, it is very different to how I play. I walked up to my ball, looked at the flag to see where it was and the open green and decided where I wanted to land my shot and how I wanted it to roll out and with that in mind made up my mind on what club to use. In this case it was an approach wedge. Greens are summer greens in winter conditions and play soft with a decent amount of roll, but very little action from spinny balls. I will say I take note of where the stakes are for 100 and just kinda work off that. I do normally have arccos, but it and I are fighting so was not active today. 

So with all this being said, what do you use? Numbers for everything, feel or the art of chipping for everything or both?

Or at what point does the yardage not really matter and you are more thinking I want a 5 or 10 yard chip with a 3 yard roll or whatever it may be?

I would say personally, 40 yards and in I am more feel. Again reference stakes, but that would be about it. I prefer to see a shot, landing spot and roll or hit and stop in my mind vs saying I need a 31 yard chip. 

So again what say you? How do you go about making decisions on those types of shots?

[Kenny B]

All feel for me inside 50y (a full 60º is 60y).  Lots of factors determine my choice of shot; lie, amount of carry to the green, amount of roll, green slope and undulations, wind.  I use my 60º for most shots, but conditions might change my mind; could be a 54º or 48º.

I'm not a pro so I can't consistently hit any club a specific number, so I'm gauging the level of effort needed for a specific club to get me on the green without going off the back... and generally toward the pin.  I'm not one to put a lot of spin on the ball, so to play spin is not for me.  I can play low, medium and high approach shots, so I can (sorta) control distance once the ball lands.  I'm better at allowing the ball to rollout; it's more predictable to me.  

Whenever we get close to the green, my wife (with the laser) asks me if I want a number.  She uses it for close distances but It doesn't mean much to me; I've already made my decision and pulled my club.  I have Garmin S62 watch to approximate the distance, comparing the middle distance to the front and back of the green.

[tony@CIC]

25- 30 yds. in is pure feel with my LW beyond that and I'll use a LRF and like @Kenny BI'm good to about 60 yds with the LW. I've gone so far as developing a clock oriented cheat sheet from 30-60 yds. but don't refer to it now since it's ingrained from lots of practice. 

[cnosil]

All shots are feel for me.    For distance wedges,  I identify what quadrant the pin is located and then use GPS to get some distances to front/middle or middle/back to know decide how far I want to carry the ball.  For finesse wedges, I look at where I want to land the ball and how much rollout I need to select a club.  

[GolfSpy_SHARK]

60 and in us all feel. Could be several different clubs depending on what I want to do but once I get into the feel of yardage again (takes some time after the off season to gauge distances again) I am all feel.

outside of that I like to have a number, doesn’t need to be exact. Kind of why I like arccos I can select an area of the green and say I want to hit that area. I can do this with yardages that are marked on the course but arccos is definitely a nice little technological upper

[G56788]

If I’m at my best, I’m a feel player from 50 yards and in—no swing thoughts, just see shot, hit shot. That’s mostly how I learned to play. I got in trouble when I tried to adopt the Pelz distance wedge system. I started lasering all the distances and tried to pair the shots with a backswing length. Eventually, the only shot I had was a decelerating wedge followed by a lot of swearing.

 

 

[GolfSpy_KFT]

23 hours ago, GolfSpy_APH said:

Little background - Played today with what I am guessing is a slightly newer golfer. Was making good swings and playing well, but either had to have his phone out for yardage or when that died took the range finder to shoot the flag. This included when we were side by side about 25 yards from the green. 

Although not a bad thing, it is very different to how I play. I walked up to my ball, looked at the flag to see where it was and the open green and decided where I wanted to land my shot and how I wanted it to roll out and with that in mind made up my mind on what club to use. In this case it was an approach wedge. Greens are summer greens in winter conditions and play soft with a decent amount of roll, but very little action from spinny balls. I will say I take note of where the stakes are for 100 and just kinda work off that. I do normally have arccos, but it and I are fighting so was not active today. 

So with all this being said, what do you use? Numbers for everything, feel or the art of chipping for everything or both?

Or at what point does the yardage not really matter and you are more thinking I want a 5 or 10 yard chip with a 3 yard roll or whatever it may be?

I would say personally, 40 yards and in I am more feel. Again reference stakes, but that would be about it. I prefer to see a shot, landing spot and roll or hit and stop in my mind vs saying I need a 31 yard chip. 

So again what say you? How do you go about making decisions on those types of shots?

I am all feel inside 100. I don't mean that to sound arrogant in any way, I just don't have proper gapping at the bottom of my bag (only a PW and SW). Because of that I just try to feel the type of swing I need to carry the ball where I want to *attempt* to land it on the green. Outside of that, though, I'll use a rangefinder to the flag. 

[Dweed]

Yeah, pretty much feel inside 50 yards. I use a Swami GPS for raw distance as I really only take full swings until I'm inside my lofted wedge full swing distance. Still watch wind direction, topography etc but then it's how I feel.

[Tom the Golf Nut]

I am feel inside 80 yards if I’m not carrying a lob wedge. If I am that’s my 60 yard club for high soft landing shots. But I need to know if it’s 60 yards. If the LW isn’t in my bag then It’s feel using either my gap wedge or sand wedge. 

[RichL85]

Seems I'm in the same area as many others, around 50-60 yards and in, it's mostly feel. I may check the yardage just to know, but not always. 

[pmak]

I use the clock system for my wedges, so I do like to laser most shots when I feel I'm outside 40 yards. Sometimes if I'm around 30-40 and have to carry a bunker or something, I'll laser the number to carry the hazard so my internal feel will know "ok, at least swing hard enough to clear that". Otherwise, inside 40 would be feel, outside laser.

I feel like it kind of depends on how you grew up playing too. Someone who always had a laser might have built their entire game around numbers, but those who grew up without probably have more confidence that "feel" can take over.

[MisterT]

I am largely a feel player after taking notice of the 100 yard marker. I will laser when I'm not comfortable with what my eyes are telling me or the pin position seem out of place (front vs middle).

[russtopherb]

Pretty much all feel if it's a wedge shot. If I'm chipping, all I'm doing is looking at where I want the ball to land and letting the loft of the club dictate how far the ball will roll out.

[Andrew75]

I consider myself a feel player, but after looking at these responses, perhaps I'm not. I often use my scope on pitch shots, or when I feel it's so close as to be unnecessary I simply walk up and measure the distance as I step. I need to know the carry spot and how much roll out to expect. I play fast but compute these matters before playing the shot, almost always. 

I don't know how you could play a shot confidently without knowing the precise distance you are shooting for to land and then the roll out, dictated by slope, moisture/firmness speed of greens, angle of shot selected and perhaps most important grain and even wind.  I'll even check if there are riding greensmower rings around the perimeter, which necessitates calculating an effectively smaller green so as not to get an unexpected first bounce. 

It's how I've practiced all my life. I feel I have a swing for every distance down to a yard. If carry is fourteen and not fifteen I definitely want to know. If roll out is 17 and not 15, that's a six foot putt instead of a tap in.

I walk and carry, aged 62, and play 18 6,000 yards with lots of hills in about 3.25 hours.

The biggest amateur move I see comes from the golf cart. People just grab one club and a putter. I may take any one of five to seven clubs around greens, and if forced to ride will remove my bag and carry it when playing a short shot or take anywhere from 3:to seven clubs around the greens. 

[saz0418]

I would say less than 50 yards, I play by feel-- identify a landing spot/trajectory/roll-out (club), and then execute.  

For longer approach shots and pitches, I started using a tip from Coach Lockey (Mark Crossfield's buddy) where you vary your stance width to control yardage.   I have only been doing this for about 3 weeks, and we are still in the midst of Winter in Ohio (USA).  But, a waist high swing with 3 different stance widths (6, 12, and 18 inches, for me) is very, very effective.  For example, I hit a 9i (in this cold weather) 100 yards with my standard, waist high swing.   A little wider goes 110 and a little more narrow goes 90.  The last 2 times I have played I have had 6 - 8 legit birdie putts (inside 20 feet).   I carry a cheat-sheet in my yardage book, but I think I could do it from memory if I needed to.   For me the gaps are about 10 yards per club-- and then plus/minus 10 for the wider/narrower.   Not too hard to remember.   I really  like the results of this method so far.  One swing (consistent).   I think you could dial it in to 5 yard increments using stance width and choking up on the club and get very, very  precise.   

One of my tenants for playing is to use the least amount of swing and the least amount of loft to accomplish the task.   So I will chip a 9i or 8i rather than rip at a SW degree wedge (from, say, 100 or so yards) .  And I will usually play a bump-and-run around the green where it is practical.  

For chipping, I have posted this before in other forums, but I will do the short version, here.   If you have a 50/50 club for chipping (say, GW), and you hit 1 yard long of your target spot, you will be 1 yard long of the pin (that's the theory, anyway).  The 50/50 club rolls as far as it flies, so your miss is 1:1.    If you chip with a 7 iron, it might be 1:3 or 1:4 fly to roll.  So, if you your target by 1 yard, you miss the hole by 3 or 4.  With that in mind, it comes down to your ability and practice.   If you are good at hitting a spot with your 50/50 club, you should never be too far from the pin.   A bump-and-run target spot (for an 8 iron or 7 iron) is closer to YOU, so in theory easier to hit.  But your misses are magnified because the roll out is 1:3 or 1:4.   So there are trade-offs that you need to understand, and then practice to learn what works best for you.     Another advantage of the 50/50 club is you can stand 90 degrees to the flight and pretty easily pick out the landing spot half way to the hole.  If you go with a 1/3rd or 1/4 club, its not as easy to visualize.   You can always pace to your ball on your way past the flag, and I DO if I have a longer chip.   

I generally grab my 50/50  club and my 1-third/2-thirds club.   That covers most of what I will encounter around the green unless I have something out of the ordinary (say, giant green with the pin 80 or 90 feet away).   I also have learned I need to add 1 club for an uphill lie-- and/or  1 club for an uphill roll.  So, if I am chipping to a back pin up-slope (2 or 3 percent) from an uphill lie on the apron, my 50/50 club is a 9 iron rather than GW, and then I hit the same 50/50 target half way to the hole.  That concept works out pretty well.   There is also a  method where each club is about 10% more or less on the fly/role scale,   Meaning GW would fly 50% of the way to the hole, PW 40%, 9i 30%, etc.  I have used this and it is pretty close on greens that stimp 9 or 10.   

For context, I am about an 8 to 9 HDCP currently, and 63 years old.   I had a 69 (-2) and a 71 (E) late last fall, and I have shot a couple of 77's already this Spring in less than ideal conditions.   I  think my short game is better than average for the courses I play and the guys I try to take money from     

Like Tiger says, Father Time is undefeated.  But I am trying to keep up. 

[Murv]

Inside 40 yards I'm certainly feel since I may use a 58, 54, or 49 or even pw. But I still shoot it because I want to know that it's 40 and not 50 or 55.

I always shoot everything inside 120 since I want to try to get it close. But outside of 150 I can use GPS just as well. One time I was playing an uphill hole where the flag was mostly hidden. Standing right beside a yardage marker I took to be 100. Turned out it was 150. 

[Korban61]

Mostly feel inside 70 yards, but the distance determines my club selection. All of my irons are single length, except one. 70 to 80 yards is a full smooth LW.  50 to 70 yards is a feel shot GW. 30+ to 50 yards is a SW and 30 and under is a 58° Cleveland CBX2 (not single length).  I use Paul Runyan's/Phil Rodgers pitching method which is simply an under hand toss feel. When I was younger I was almost always in 1 putt range from 60 yards and in, and would hole out about every other round once. Now that I am 61 years old, I have lost that ability but it still gives me the best results.  I use a GPS watch and occasionally a range finder to determine the distance and club.

For chipping I also use Paul Runyan/Phil Rodgers technique, of how much carry to get on the green to how much roll to the hole. For example 3 yards in the air and 3 yards to the hole is a SW (1 to 1 ratio), PW is 1 to 2 ratio, 9i 1 to 3, 8i 1 to 4, 7i 1 to 5, etc. Adjustments are made for speed of green and up or down slope. This is the best part of my game, and I have taught my family and friends this technique with great results.

Edited February 22, 2023 by Korban61

[ArizonaLogan]

My full shot approximate distances.

60° - 75

56° - 85

52° - 95

For most shots inside of 70 yards I will use a 56 and just go by feel. Usually My 56 is much safer for me to hit and I don't think I've ever had a major miss hit on important shots. The only times I want yardage numbers for chipping is if...

A. I have a 40-70 yard bunker shot.

B. The green is elevated and I can see the flag but not the hole location.

C. There are bunkers and/or water hazards short or long.

[GolfSpy MPR]

I'll be one of the lonely guys voting for mechanical. For the past couple of years, I have had a paper printout on the inside back of my clear phone case with my wedge matrix chart: carry and total distances for 1/4, 1/2, 3/4, and full wedge swings for LW, SW, and GW. I will basically laser everything from about 30 yards and out.

For me, this has worked pretty well: Arccos would tell me that my short game is, on a SG basis, the strongest part of my game.

My intent going into this season is to become slightly more target-based on these. I'm going to move to hitting most partial shots with just my SW. In my practice, I'm doing a lot more work imagining distances in my mind and hitting shots to that distance (measured by Mevo+). So I will still be lasering most of these shots, but instead of having a specific swing fraction I'm trying to hit (internal focus), I'm going to be having my attention more on hitting a (for instance) 50 yard carry.

[Jim Shaw]

13 hours ago, pmak said:

I use the clock system for my wedges, so I do like to laser most shots when I feel I'm outside 40 yards. Sometimes if I'm around 30-40 and have to carry a bunker or something, I'll laser the number to carry the hazard so my internal feel will know "ok, at least swing hard enough to clear that". Otherwise, inside 40 would be feel, outside laser.

I feel like it kind of depends on how you grew up playing too. Someone who always had a laser might have built their entire game around numbers, but those who grew up without probably have more confidence that "feel" can take over.

same here, 8 o'clock for 40 yds, 9 oclock for 60, anything inside 40 mainly feel, 

[ChuckZ]

With all the false fronts that we have at our course, at 40 yards it is my eight iron.  Gonna chip it and let it run up to the flag.  Our fairways are pretty tight.  Our course has no yardage  markers on the course.  They did a remodel and stayed true to the old school.  Yes I use my Rangefinder and never throw my shots at the flag, because of all the danger.  Feel like a calculator sometimes getting in the correct position.  Seth Raynor type design and position is critical.  #19 muni in U.S. according to Golf.com.  Course management is critical.