Callaway Driver fails R&A COR test before The Open

[DaveP043]

7 minutes ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

i think a better fix would be for the usga to get off their scared backsides and do random tests at pga tour events. 

The USGA doesn't enforce the rules at normal PGA Tour events, the PGA Tour does.  Let's point the finger at the people who are actually responsible.  The PGA Tour has zero interest in enforcing equipment rules, since it has the potential to make both the manufacturers (who are also advertisers/financial sponsors) and individual players look bad.

[Kenny B]

21 minutes ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

i think a better fix would be for the usga to get off their scared backsides and do random tests at pga tour events. 

So just like the R&A testing, what do they do if the random test finds one or two drivers off-spec?  In my opinion the R&A failed to determine if there were more non-compliant drivers by not checking all drivers.  If any random test identifies an off-spec driver, then the assumption must be that there may be others.

@cnosil make a good point; clubs can be replaced all week long.  Does that mean that all driver heads brought to a tournament by each player and those in the tour vans must be tested?  This is getting out of hand!!  I agree that testing the top 10 (or however many) after the tournament would be a good option.  Fail and the player is DQ'ed; the OEMs and the players will make certain that the clubs are compliant. 

[MDGolfHacker]

So easy to fix this issue..just go back to persimmons drivers..

 

MDGolfHacker

[sixcat]

11 minutes ago, MDGolfHacker said:

So easy to fix this issue..just go back to persimmons drivers..

 

MDGolfHacker

With 460cc heads!!!!!!!  

[RickyBobby_PR]

32 minutes ago, Kenny B said:

So just like the R&A testing, what do they do if the random test finds one or two drivers off-spec?  In my opinion the R&A failed to determine if there were more non-compliant drivers by not checking all drivers.  If any random test identifies an off-spec driver, then the assumption must be that there may be others.

@cnosil make a good point; clubs can be replaced all week long.  Does that mean that all driver heads brought to a tournament by each player and those in the tour vans must be tested?  This is getting out of hand!!  I agree that testing the top 10 (or however many) after the tournament would be a good option.  Fail and the player is DQ'ed; the OEMs and the players will make certain that the clubs are compliant. 

Imo it’s like any other test, there’s a statistical sample size that gets tested and is a representation of the full product (in this case drivers). They don’t have the time to test every driver before play and it would be interesting to know if the replacement driver gets tested as well...based on the reports of Xander scrambling tues and wed to find a setup that worked for him I don’t think it gets tested.

Drivers can become non compliant from use over time so it really should be up to the manufacturer to test periodically. 

With all that said unless a head is way over the allowed reading there’s no advantage on the course in a head being a couple points high and there’s a lot more negative especially for the brand. I think the online golfers are making a bigger deal out of this than it really is. 

I would bet there are more non conforming drivers on store shelves and in play by amateurs than there are on tour. 

[Kenny B]

50 minutes ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

Imo it’s like any other test, there’s a statistical sample size that gets tested and is a representation of the full product (in this case drivers). They don’t have the time to test every driver before play and it would be interesting to know if the replacement driver gets tested as well...based on the reports of Xander scrambling tues and wed to find a setup that worked for him I don’t think it gets tested.

Drivers can become non compliant from use over time so it really should be up to the manufacturer to test periodically. 

With all that said unless a head is way over the allowed reading there’s no advantage on the course in a head being a couple points high and there’s a lot more negative especially for the brand. I think the online golfers are making a bigger deal out of this than it really is. 

I would bet there are more non conforming drivers on store shelves and in play by amateurs than there are on tour. 

Then they should make the time.  How is it fair for Xander to replace his driver before the event and not someone else's driver that may be off-spec?  From the sample tested, clearly there could be more off-spec drivers that weren't tested.

IMO, since the R&A did not do more sampling, they clearly are not interested in assuring that all drivers used in the tournament are compliant.  They should have sampled another 30; they could have selected more drivers of the same OEMs that failed.  That tells me that their main goal of testing is to create an atmosphere so that the OEMs will be embarrassed if they fail and check their player's clubs more frequently, at least before The Open like Titleist did in JT's case.  

[RickyBobby_PR]

1 hour ago, Kenny B said:

Then they should make the time.  How is it fair for Xander to replace his driver before the event and not someone else's driver that may be off-spec?  From the sample tested, clearly there could be more off-spec drivers that weren't tested.

IMO, since the R&A did not do more sampling, they clearly are not interested in assuring that all drivers used in the tournament are compliant.  They should have sampled another 30; they could have selected more drivers of the same OEMs that failed.  That tells me that their main goal of testing is to create an atmosphere so that the OEMs will be embarrassed if they fail and check their player's clubs more frequently, at least before The Open like Titleist did in JT's case.  

How could their goal be to embarrass a company when the public isnt supposed to know if a driver failed. The results are confidential.  Xander put his name out there because other players were joking around with him afterwards...as you notice the other 3 driver brands and/or players names aren’t out there.

No one had an issue with only 30 being tested last year at the open. The R&A like any other organization that does some form a testing picks a number that is a statistical representation of the product and tests that. In the case of the R&A they use 30. 

These are random tests just like the random drug testing. Titleist does periodic testing of gear and not just before the open. Xanders failed by 1 ct point (provides zero advantage on the course) and in reality it came down to the device Callaway uses compared to the one the R&A uses and some differences between the two. 

[sixcat]

17 minutes ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

How could their goal be to embarrass a company when the public isnt supposed to know if a driver failed. The results are confidential.  Xander put his name out there because other players were joking around with him afterwards...as you notice the other 3 driver brands and/or players names aren’t out there.

No one had an issue with only 30 being tested last year at the open. The R&A like any other organization that does some form a testing picks a number that is a statistical representation of the product and tests that. In the case of the R&A they use 30. 

These are random tests just like the random drug testing. Titleist does periodic testing of gear and not just before the open. Xanders failed by 1 ct point (provides zero advantage on the course) and in reality it came down to the device Callaway uses compared to the one the R&A uses and some differences between the two. 

From what's being reported, Xander was being teased because he was openly upset and mouthing off in the equipment van.  The other bit of information being reported, the difference between the two testing devices is a known problem among all OEM's.  Therefore, Callaway and other OEM's should have been prepared as Titleist was.  

As for the results of the test, it doesn't matter if it's one point over or 10 points over.  The rule is the rule!  When a line is drawn in the sand that everyone is aware of, the governing bodies have to enforce it.  The R&A does so much more than the PGA Tour.  Again, if it's a known issue, the OEM's should have been more prepared.

[RickyBobby_PR]

23 minutes ago, sixcat said:

From what's being reported, Xander was being teased because he was openly upset and mouthing off in the equipment van.  The other bit of information being reported, the difference between the two testing devices is a known problem among all OEM's.  Therefore, Callaway and other OEM's should have been prepared as Titleist was.  

As for the results of the test, it doesn't matter if it's one point over or 10 points over.  The rule is the rule!  When a line is drawn in the sand that everyone is aware of, the governing bodies have to enforce it.  The R&A does so much more than the PGA Tour.  Again, if it's a known issue, the OEM's should have been more prepared.

I’m with you regardless of the value over the limit it’s a broken rule...also agree that the manufacturers should have been better prepared after all it’s the second year in a row for the testing. 

Like most things in golf there is no standard for testing things. 

I don’t get the blame game towards the R&A from Xander or the fans. They did what they said they would do and kept it confidential.  If it was one brand that had 4 failures then maybe it’s a brand issue and that brand should have been checked...either people are forgetting or don’t know that this type of statistical testing happens in all industries and not sure we all have cars or appliances with parts that weren’t tested.

 

[sixcat]

1 hour ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

I’m with you regardless of the value over the limit it’s a broken rule...also agree that the manufacturers should have been better prepared after all it’s the second year in a row for the testing. 

Like most things in golf there is no standard for testing things. 

I don’t get the blame game towards the R&A from Xander or the fans. They did what they said they would do and kept it confidential.  If it was one brand that had 4 failures then maybe it’s a brand issue and that brand should have been checked...either people are forgetting or don’t know that this type of statistical testing happens in all industries and not sure we all have cars or appliances with parts that weren’t tested.

 

To me, Xander is coming off like a pampered brat.  But then again, that's the PGA Tour for ya!  As @DaveP043 suggested, they don't want to address issues with the game at the highest levels because they may have to look inward for blame.   

[Kenny B]

3 hours ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

How could their goal be to embarrass a company when the public isnt supposed to know if a driver failed. The results are confidential.  Xander put his name out there because other players were joking around with him afterwards...as you notice the other 3 driver brands and/or players names aren’t out there.

No one had an issue with only 30 being tested last year at the open. The R&A like any other organization that does some form a testing picks a number that is a statistical representation of the product and tests that. In the case of the R&A they use 30. 

These are random tests just like the random drug testing. Titleist does periodic testing of gear and not just before the open. Xanders failed by 1 ct point (provides zero advantage on the course) and in reality it came down to the device Callaway uses compared to the one the R&A uses and some differences between the two. 

Thank you for making my point.  The point of random drug testing is to ensure that players do not take illegal drugs because the price of getting caught is very steep.  It's the same with this driver random testing.  The OEMs don't want to fail.  Word gets out on which drivers failed; maybe we don't know, but the OEMs certainly know. We do know that besides Xander's Callaway, a PXG driver failed. Failing is embarrassing and hurts reputations of both the player and their sponsor.  

Of course no one had an issue last year, every driver tested passed.  That's my other point...  the R&A didn't really care about how many drivers in the field were non-compliant; only that those found were replaced.  4 out of 30 is a significant number.  If they truly wanted to know if more drivers were non-compliant, they would have selected another sample or tested them all.  How many fails would it have taken before they did that?  What if 10 failed?  Half?  If every one of the 30 drivers sampled failed, would they have just taken those drivers out of play and let all the other players use their drivers?  Clearly, because they didn't sample more drivers, they weren't interested in determining if all drivers were within spec.

[RickyBobby_PR]

3 hours ago, Kenny B said:

Thank you for making my point.  The point of random drug testing is to ensure that players do not take illegal drugs because the price of getting caught is very steep.  It's the same with this driver random testing.  The OEMs don't want to fail.  Word gets out on which drivers failed; maybe we don't know, but the OEMs certainly know. We do know that besides Xander's Callaway, a PXG driver failed. Failing is embarrassing and hurts reputations of both the player and their sponsor.  

Of course no one had an issue last year, every driver tested passed.  That's my other point...  the R&A didn't really care about how many drivers in the field were non-compliant; only that those found were replaced.  4 out of 30 is a significant number.  If they truly wanted to know if more drivers were non-compliant, they would have selected another sample or tested them all.  How many fails would it have taken before they did that?  What if 10 failed?  Half?  If every one of the 30 drivers sampled failed, would they have just taken those drivers out of play and let all the other players use their drivers?  Clearly, because they didn't sample more drivers, they weren't interested in determining if all drivers were within spec.

If 4 out of 30 failed the drug test should they sample more golfers to see who else is on something. There’s a reason they are random and not full field.

of course the brands and the players don’t want to be called a cheater or have that perception. Callaway tested they just used a different machine than the r&a used. Unfortunately for Callaway and Xander the small difference between what the two machines read wasn’t enough for Callaway to not be considered compliant.  PXG has denied they failed so we will probably never know the truth if they did or didn’t.

The R&A is doing more than the usga/pga tour when it comes to testing. Just like in an other industry every piece/, part, product, etc can’t be tested. The R&A for whatever reason is unable to test every head and my guess is it’s due to time and resources. 

The companies have processes in place to keep heads legal and we know Callaway and titleist are testing...they may need to test more frequently especially as they get close to the open. TaylorMade we know is testing and injecting their faces to stay in the limit. 

The R&A did nothing wrong by not conducting further testing and Callaway didn’t either they just used a different device than r&a which in the golf industry there are lots of machines and testing methods for lots of different specs. 

The issue is how Xander handled it and put blame where it didn’t belong because he can’t handle some light hearted ribbing by fellow tour players.

 

 

[Kenny B]

2 hours ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

If 4 out of 30 failed the drug test should they sample more golfers to see who else is on something. There’s a reason they are random and not full field.

of course the brands and the players don’t want to be called a cheater or have that perception. Callaway tested they just used a different machine than the r&a used. Unfortunately for Callaway and Xander the small difference between what the two machines read wasn’t enough for Callaway to not be considered compliant.  PXG has denied they failed so we will probably never know the truth if they did or didn’t.

The R&A is doing more than the usga/pga tour when it comes to testing. Just like in an other industry every piece/, part, product, etc can’t be tested. The R&A for whatever reason is unable to test every head and my guess is it’s due to time and resources. 

The companies have processes in place to keep heads legal and we know Callaway and titleist are testing...they may need to test more frequently especially as they get close to the open. TaylorMade we know is testing and injecting their faces to stay in the limit. 

The R&A did nothing wrong by not conducting further testing and Callaway didn’t either they just used a different device than r&a which in the golf industry there are lots of machines and testing methods for lots of different specs. 

The issue is how Xander handled it and put blame where it didn’t belong because he can’t handle some light hearted ribbing by fellow tour players.

 

 

It all comes down to what the acceptance criteria are for the random sample.  The R&A test appears to be to identify non-compliant drivers, but the threshold for more testing was more than 4 failed drivers.  I guess they really didn't care if other drivers were being played that were non-compliant, just those in the sample.

Yes, Xander didn't handle it very well, but when you livelihood is based on honor and integrity and people challenge that, even through light-hearted ribbing, I can understand his reaction.

 

[FrogginBullfish]

https://www.golfdigest.com/story/callaway-ceo-on-failed-driver-test-if-anybody-deserves-blame-its-us-but-in-all-fairness-im-not-sure-we-did-anything-wrong/

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[TR1PTIK]

I like the take Adam had on the latest NPG podcast. The limit for CT is 239. When manufacturers start trying to produce drivers in the upper tolerance zone, they are just asking for something like this to happen. I've worked in manufacturing for a while now and the goal is always nominal unless producing a component that mates to another one. Golf equipment companies have absolutely zero reason not to reach for nominal based on the information that's been provided so far. There simply isn't enough upside to justify it. 100% Callaway's fault on this one.