Cobra Kind Supersport 35 - 3D printed Putter

[pozzit]

Alright as Cobra has talked more and more about 3D Printing and there technology they have announced a 3D printing putter. 

I'm a huge fan of 3D printing and this is a really interesting take. They are obviously leaning into the3D printing aesthetic with the "infill" pattern on the back and ridges on top. I would love to test this out and see how it actually feels Crossfield just did a video and said it feels very good. 

https://golf.com/gear/putters/cobra-3d-printed-king-supersport-35-putters/

https://golfweek.usatoday.com/2020/11/17/golf-equipment-cobra-king-supersport-35-putter/

[Reesedw]

OK, I love almost everything about this putter. This is beautiful except to me it looks a little unfinished, and a little rough. the shape and design are fantastic. I do not like the finish on the back of the putter especially the black Lattice portion.. 

[Tarheelvolvo]

Very cool idea! Does that mean I can download a putter now?  New tech like this can take time to get right, but glad to see a major manufacturer taking on this approach and leading the charge.

If anyone tests one out, please let us know your thoughts!

[pozzit]

3 minutes ago, Tarheelvolvo said:

Does that mean I can download a putter now?  

... you just wait.

[dlow206]

i think 3d printing could have a big role in clubs in the future, but lets see how it goes.

[03trdblack]

1 hour ago, pozzit said:

... you just wait.

You just have to pony up the money for a 3d metal printer. You'll recoup your cost after about 1,000 putters

[MNUte]

1 hour ago, dlow206 said:

i think 3d printing could have a big role in clubs in the future, but lets see how it goes.

I mentioned this in a different thread on this, but Rick did a review on the putter and i agree with his take. Given how new this tech is to the industry, there are plenty of kinks to work out. But the potential is there for some amazing products down the line that can reshape how we view putter design and construction. 

 

https://youtu.be/RZ2u0fE97dM

[FrogginBullfish]

Can a mod merge these threads please?

https://forum.mygolfspy.com/index.php?/topic/42039-Cobra-Introduces-First-Ever-3D-Printed-Golf-Club

Sent from my Pixel 2 using MyGolfSpy mobile app

[BMart519]

As someone who really wants to try a putter with the variable loft from SiK and was just fit into a wide blade with plumber's neck on Trackman... It is taking a lot of restraint not to order this thing.

[Kansas King]

I read the MGS article on the putter but I don't know that there is anything unique performance wise that doesn't already exist. The idea of a production 3D-printed club is interesting and I applaud Cobra for doing it. However, I just don't see the huge benefit to putters yet.

I do believe 3D-printing can open up some doors in golf clubs that have never been opened before. I'm thinking about irons and wedges. If they can print it accurate enough, they can use the lattice design inside irons to make the walls very thin and move the mass to the very edges. This could usher in an the era of higher MOI players clubs and even ultra forgiving SGI irons that could only be dreamed about. I could see them making the lattice design and sticking it into hollow body irons where the outer shell is as this as a crown on a driver. Hollow-body irons of today seem to be in an odd space as the designs have appeared to actually pull up the COGs in a negative way. Being able to make the shell thinner would theoretically be able to bring those COGs back down and push the weight even further into the edges to bring up the MOI more. Interesting times ahead but I don't see 3D printing being able to make clubs defy physics and bad swings yet.  

[cnosil]

I read the MGS article on the putter but I don't know that there is anything unique performance wise that doesn't already exist. The idea of a production 3D-printed club is interesting and I applaud Cobra for doing it. However, I just don't see the huge benefit to putters yet.
I do believe 3D-printing can open up some doors in golf clubs that have never been opened before. I'm thinking about irons and wedges. If they can print it accurate enough, they can use the lattice design inside irons to make the walls very thin and move the mass to the very edges. This could usher in an the era of higher MOI players clubs and even ultra forgiving SGI irons that could only be dreamed about. I could see them making the lattice design and sticking it into hollow body irons where the outer shell is as this as a crown on a driver. Hollow-body irons of today seem to be in an odd space as the designs have appeared to actually pull up the COGs in a negative way. Being able to make the shell thinner would theoretically be able to bring those COGs back down and push the weight even further into the edges to bring up the MOI more. Interesting times ahead but I don't see 3D printing being able to make clubs defy physics and bad swings yet.  

The things you specified for other clubs would be the same thing fir putters. Designers cane alter moi, cog, weight placement with putters as well. Just because they don’t move as fast doesn’t meaner that an improperly fit putter won’t twist or vibrate during the stroke which will result in inconsistent results.

[Kansas King]

19 minutes ago, cnosil said:

The things you specified for other clubs would be the same thing fir putters. Designers cane alter moi, cog, weight placement with putters as well. Just because they don’t move as fast doesn’t meaner that an improperly fit putter won’t twist or vibrate during the stroke which will result in inconsistent results.

I agree but the putter is by far the least performance-centric club in the bag. It's not slamming into the ball going 80 mph. Not to say higher MOI doesn't help with putting but because the putter is swung slowly, we can have designs that provide huge MOI numbers. The real sauce for 3D printing is applying it in places where there constraints on how much real estate you can use, like irons. I don't know if there is much they can do on drivers because current designs are already very thin around the perimeter and have a very high MOI. I won't bet against engineers finding a way to utilize 3D printing in every club, but I feel irons are probably the most likely to see any benefit. 

Edited November 17, 2020 by Kansas King

[cnosil]

4 minutes ago, Kansas King said:

I agree but the putter is by far the least performance-centric club in the bag. It's not slamming into the ball going 80 mph. Not to say higher MOI doesn't help with putting but because the putter is swung slowly, we can have designs that provide huge MOI numbers. 

We are going to disagree on this;  putter design characteristics influence the stroke significantly 

[walkerdb7]

Hi All, I chimed in on the Driver vs Driver 2 thread before. I work in the 3DP industry and understand these applications at a deep level. I was featured on the DVD2 show.

Happy to help educate people on 3DP. Let me know if there are questions?

[Kansas King]

31 minutes ago, cnosil said:

We are going to disagree on this;  putter design characteristics influence the stroke significantly 

I 100% agree with you that different design elements of putters can have a significant impact on how they perform. I'm just saying that I don't think 3D printing is going to change what we can already do in a material way. I say this because the design constraints of a putter are far less than that of any other club in the bag.

[walkerdb7]

1 hour ago, Kansas King said:

I read the MGS article on the putter but I don't know that there is anything unique performance wise that doesn't already exist. The idea of a production 3D-printed club is interesting and I applaud Cobra for doing it. However, I just don't see the huge benefit to putters yet.

I do believe 3D-printing can open up some doors in golf clubs that have never been opened before. I'm thinking about irons and wedges. If they can print it accurate enough, they can use the lattice design inside irons to make the walls very thin and move the mass to the very edges. This could usher in an the era of higher MOI players clubs and even ultra forgiving SGI irons that could only be dreamed about. I could see them making the lattice design and sticking it into hollow body irons where the outer shell is as this as a crown on a driver. Hollow-body irons of today seem to be in an odd space as the designs have appeared to actually pull up the COGs in a negative way. Being able to make the shell thinner would theoretically be able to bring those COGs back down and push the weight even further into the edges to bring up the MOI more. Interesting times ahead but I don't see 3D printing being able to make clubs defy physics and bad swings yet.  

Mass customization is the best use case for 3DP. Imagine getting fit for clubs and then adjusting the top line of blade length to your fitting. The club head would be completely personalized for you. USGA is the issue here.

[Kansas King]

1 minute ago, walkerdb7 said:

Mass customization is the best use case for 3DP. Imagine getting fit for clubs and then adjusting the top line of blade length to your fitting. The club head would be completely personalized for you. USGA is the issue here.

That is probably the best commercial use for 3D printing with putters today. I haven't thought about the USGA much and real-time club manufacturing. I could maybe see 3D-printing being useful for custom inlays that may not require USGA approval. From a mass production POV, I'm having hard time imagining 3DP taking over what we can already do with casting, forging, and milling. My only thought is that integrating some custom lattice work into irons and woods could maybe help thin out some areas and redistribute some weight but I still don't think the effects would be significant. 

[Shankster]

SIK....

[Kansas King]

22 minutes ago, walkerdb7 said:

Hi All, I chimed in on the Driver vs Driver 2 thread before. I work in the 3DP industry and understand these applications at a deep level. I was featured on the DVD2 show.

Happy to help educate people on 3DP. Let me know if there are questions?

I have a few questions if you don't mind taking a shot in the dark.

How long do you think it will be before cost of mass production of 3D printed clubs, especially clubs like irons, would be feasible and not cost prohibitive? I'm talking about a company like Callaway being able to produce say 50,000 iron heads and sell them to consumers for under $2000 a set.

Do you think 3D printing would be good for high impact clubs like irons? I know they are using 3DP in certain high-stress aerospace parts so I don't see why it couldn't be a possibility.

Do you think 3DP could become lower cost than traditional casting and forging in the future?

I'm just trying to think of the future with 3DP and the best I can think that will happen in the next decade is much faster prototyping and being able to test clubs without needing to get test clubs from the foundries. I see 3DP speeding up club development in golf but not replacing the actual production similar to other industries. Am I not thinking big enough? I do believe 3DP has revolutionized certain industries and will continue to but when it comes to golf, I just don't see 3DP leaving the development stages for club design, at least with the technology of the foreseeable future. 

[walkerdb7]

5 hours ago, Kansas King said:

That is probably the best commercial use for 3D printing with putters today. I haven't thought about the USGA much and real-time club manufacturing. I could maybe see 3D-printing being useful for custom inlays that may not require USGA approval. From a mass production POV, I'm having hard time imagining 3DP taking over what we can already do with casting, forging, and milling. My only thought is that integrating some custom lattice work into irons and woods could maybe help thin out some areas and redistribute some weight but I still don't think the effects would be significant. 

Define significant? If you can move the weight 5% every version, it 5 years you'd have something with a 25% higher MOI. With how bleeding edge this is to golf, it's about hitting singles and not home runs.

5 hours ago, Kansas King said:

I have a few questions if you don't mind taking a shot in the dark.

How long do you think it will be before cost of mass production of 3D printed clubs, especially clubs like irons, would be feasible and not cost prohibitive? I'm talking about a company like Callaway being able to produce say 50,000 iron heads and sell them to consumers for under $2000 a set.

Do you think 3D printing would be good for high impact clubs like irons? I know they are using 3DP in certain high-stress aerospace parts so I don't see why it couldn't be a possibility.

Do you think 3DP could become lower cost than traditional casting and forging in the future?

I'm just trying to think of the future with 3DP and the best I can think that will happen in the next decade is much faster prototyping and being able to test clubs without needing to get test clubs from the foundries. I see 3DP speeding up club development in golf but not replacing the actual production similar to other industries. Am I not thinking big enough? I do believe 3DP has revolutionized certain industries and will continue to but when it comes to golf, I just don't see 3DP leaving the development stages for club design, at least with the technology of the foreseeable future. 

Despite what people may read, 3D printing is NOT going to take over the manufacturing world. It is and will continue to grow as a technology that makes the impossible happen. It will also compliment casting, forging, and machining... It will not fully replace them. I mention this because it's about context.

There are different technologies of 3D printing, so I can't blindly say they all will work. But as a of rule thumb, if casting works, metal 3DP will work. When it comes to metal 3DP the two main technologies are Binder Jet and Laser Powder Bed.

Binder Jet is not new, but for a long time it was very niche. Brands like Desktop Metal and HP has bread new life into this technology. Binder Jet is ideal for less expensive parts, smaller work pieces sizes, and parts you need in higher volume.

Laser Powder Bed is the original metal technology and is 25 years old. It's best suited for higher part quality requirements, parts of higher accuracy, better surface finish requirements,  more durable or robust parts, and/or larger part sizes. The main brands are EOS, SLM, and GE.

Laser Powder Bed is what my company specializes in. Our 3DP is absolutely robust enough for irons, wedges, driver faces, etc. As example, Mold makers and die casters use our metal technology to make automotive mold and die tooling that lasts hundreds of thousands cycles, that's much higher part qualities required in golf. 

Asking when is Callaway going to be able print 50,000 sets under $2,000 is probably the wrong question?

It's more, when and where can a 3DP component be incorporated into an existing design to improve the performance? Could Callaway 3DP an iron face to get into the next gen Apex to improve performance enough to justify a more than typical price increase? Could Callaway use 3DP and their AI design to really up the level of jail break technolgoy? Or could Callaway launch an ultra premium line, like PXG, that is all made to order like I referenced earlier?

Not trying to avoid the question, it's just that it's not how to get into production in 3DP. There needs be a use case that is not throughput or cost to best use the technology

Edited November 18, 2020 by walkerdb7