Are Golfers Finally Starting to Balk At Driver Prices?

[oldguy819]

YES!

[GolfSpy_KFT]

11 minutes ago, russtopherb said:

This right here. 

Guitar manufacturers come out with new models every year. The Strat and the Les Paul are pretty much the same design as they were when they were introduced. Sure, different woods now and the electronics are better, but I have never once in my life heard a musician exclaim that they bought an instrument last year and dammit they should have waited because THIS year's model blah blah blah. 

It's also the same thing in the archery industry (glad I have so many expensive hobbies ) but companies like Mathews and Hoyt release new bows every year that are "more quiet" and "more dead in the hand" than last year's model. And prices for bows keep climbing. The new Mathews bow this year is $1399, and in all reality it's not THAT much different than the bow I bought new to me in 2017 for $750 ($1099 retail). Similar to archery, I think I'd feel like i would just be getting used to a new driver and then to get a new one the next year, my brain would go through the process of this feels different, that feels different, and I'd spend half the season adjusting.

If you've got the money and you like to upgrade each year, spend it! More power to you and you won't catch a sideways glance from me. It's just not the play for me.

[ButchE]

two thought patterns will emerge here: 1: if you have the disposable income to lay out $6-700 on an item you'll use in a hobby you love, then go for it. Enjoy! @: many reading this probably don't have $700 disposable income to make a purchase, and in no way see themselves spending that much money on non-necessities. You can get a set of tires for your car for that $$. In the end, the manufacturers will continue to fetch the price people are willing to pay. Unless you are independently wealthy, or planning on playing for a living, most golfers will continue to buy used clubs because of finances.

[Eric K]

The only brand new driver I ever bought was the Callaway Epic SZ and that was because of a 30% coupon glitch that somehow made it thru their system. TBH most of my purchases thru the bag were 2nd hand (Callaway PreOwned, 3Balls, GlobalGolf) except most recently in 2019 I was fitted for my irons. 

IMHO product development has peaked to a certain degree. There's only so much ball speed and distance a club can legally produce but year after year every ad tells us "Its our fastest ball speed EVER!" or "its our longest driver EVER!"  I'm not saying tech can't produce maybe better feel, control, forgiveness.....but otherwise I think they've hit the ceiling. Don't believe the hype.

[Golfspy_CG2]

1 hour ago, Stevem said:

In addition to the question as to whether Drivers are beginning to hit a pricing wall, we should also look into whether putters are or may soon do the same thing as a slow "flood" of Putters are now approaching the $ 500 price tag and far exceeding it with an exotic "putter specific" shaft.  Former premium price tag OEMs like PXG and Scotty Cameron......no longer are.   Not sure how long this will be sustainable for the flat sticks.  Will be interesting to see, that is for damn sure.  And I post this recognizing there will always be "boutique" putter companies that test the boundaries of price elasticity for a specific market of club afficionados.    

 

1 hour ago, 6 Million Dollar Man said:

Not just because I play them but I wonder how disruptive PXG has been.  During the Genesis they were advertising drivers at $199 again.  They always have some sort of deal on their stuff. Because they are private we may never know how much of a market disruptor they are.  But at my club im seeing more and more PXG headcovers.

 

Second point.  Once you have been fitted 5 or 6 times as I have, you just know.  I swing at 90 MPH.  Once you know a little about soft tip versus firm tip, shaft weight, etc. You can gamble on fitting yourself.  I'm not tooting PXG's horn but they will walk you through the rest on the phone.  Worked for me on a driver, two fairway woods and two wedges.

 

The same mentality can be applied to any club manufacturer and versus $600+ it's worth a roll of the dice especially if you go to a place like Dick's and hit a few models.

A very good point on PXG.  Because they are private we will never really know what the balance sheets says on salees/profits etc.   But having had a set of their irons and driver, I know they are very good quality and perform pretty well, the driver I was fit for last year wasn't much better than the current one I had.   But with the price at $199 or even $299 I might be more inclined to taka a flyer on it versus one that is $599.

54 minutes ago, BigUrsus said:

R580xd came out 20 years ago with a $500 pricetag. I'd say driver prices have remained fairly unchanged since. 

That is a one off for sure, if that is even true, I can't recal.  But I can promise you 20 years go the going price fo rmost drivers was $199 to $299,. 

48 minutes ago, Mitch H said:

I think it is a combination of things. I can think of three.

1) prices are too high

2) customers are more educated

3) COVID. Let me explain. Golf demand always goes through up and down cycles. When COVID hit, and golf was one of the only exercise one could get outside that was acceptable given the almost automatic social distancing, demand went through the roof. Now that the world is getting close to equilibrium, people are no longer playing golf because there are other things to do. So because of the world getting into a COVID equilibrium, demand is going way down.

my $0.02

COVID: If it contriubuted to a large increase of sales, we will never truly know. You have to to think it did to some extent due to all the new players taking up the game.  But being at a course that was shut down then opened up Most new plyers did not come in and buy clubs right off the bat.  They either had some hand me downs or bought some second hand.  evenutualy they found they enjoyed the game and some got fit an dordered new clubs.

But golf bieng played has not slowed down at all.  2022 was our best year ever for rounds played.  And yes as peopole go back to the offices they may not be playing quite as much during the day, but they have been replaced with those that retired or left he work force that are still playign during the day that couldn't get times before. 

We will see if the trend of reccord rounds continues this year.  But early indicatins are that they will.   Our leagues dont' even start until middle of April and they are already full.  We have 12 weeks of summer camp with over 400 kids that sold out last month. 

 

 

[in3948]

Another good topic for a forum discussion.  Reading the responses and I would agree is that you have to weigh purchasing a brand new driver vs last year's model that can save you possibly a few hundred dollars. Personally, I have not test driven any of the 2023 models yet.  I have done some comparison of 2022 and older models to my current driver and still cannot justify the purchase especially with the cost of daily living going up.  For now, I will continue to try out the newer equipment at the stores and with permission, from my friends that do not care about personal budgets. 

[berkeleybob]

I’m not sure anyone is going to come on to this thread to declare they would and will in fact pay top dollar for a new driver. But surely people are doing just that. There were many who bought into the whole PXG pricejacking thing, buyers and sellers alike—not sure why that would stop now. Is it really absurd to think that in five years some drivers will be offered at $800, $900 even a $1000 a pop?

[stcymbol]

I hadn’t bought a new driver since a Callaway Fit. Last fall I picked up a new PXG 0311 Gen 5 when they put it on sale for $299. At that price point up to $349, it pays to go for a fitting. I’m thrilled with the results. No way does it make sense to me to go for more than that. 

[Golfspy_CG2]

6 minutes ago, Eric K said:

The only brand new driver I ever bought was the Callaway Epic SZ and that was because of a 30% coupon glitch that somehow made it thru their system. TBH most of my purchases thru the bag were 2nd hand (Callaway PreOwned, 3Balls, GlobalGolf) except most recently in 2019 I was fitted for my irons. 

IMHO product development has peaked to a certain degree. There's only so much ball speed and distance a club can legally produce but year after year every ad tells us "Its our fastest ball speed EVER!" or "its our longest driver EVER!"  I'm not saying tech can't produce maybe better feel, control, forgiveness.....but otherwise I think they've hit the ceiling. Don't believe the hype.

While I understand your point and to some degree you are correct.  But most seem to forget, there isn't a cap on ball speed.  There is a cap on CT limit.  There are different ways to get more ball sped, such as increased clubhead design that creates more Club Speed.  Different shaft material and lengths that can increase the club head speed as well.  Also, more ball speed across the entre face versus just the sweet spott, there is still room to impove that on the toe and heels and stay within the CT limits.   

[Willie T]

Like @Jnoble89 said about the bow industry, when my brother had a bow supply business, he would talk about how Matthews, Hoyt and others would get pricey, then there was the jump from aluminum to graphite shafts (kinda like steel to graphite).  The retail side of this game is about the latest “tweaks” and if the consumer is driven by such, the supplier will provide such.  

For me, I play a G400 SFT that a local pro-shop had as “clearance” ($220 out the door). I have flirted with the thought of a new driver but will instead look at a better shaft combo for the Ping head.  Is upwards of a $1k worth it for a new driver?  It all depends on your game - me as a casual player, I don’t see the need.  For others, let the market be their playground.

[Golfspy_CG2]

8 minutes ago, berkeleybob said:

I’m not sure anyone is going to come on to this thread to declare they would and will in fact pay top dollar for a new driver. But surely people are doing just that. There were many who bought into the whole PXG pricejacking thing, buyers and sellers alike—not sure why that would stop now. Is it really absurd to think that in five years some drivers will be offered at $800, $900 even a $1000 a pop?

Actuallly I have one of the 2023 models arleady and 2nd one willl be arriving next week

[russtopherb]

From this very website:

https://mygolfspy.com/the-increasing-costs-of-drivers/

Also, an article from 2005 referencing golfers buying $500 drivers but their scores not improving: https://www.nytimes.com/2005/05/24/sports/golf/golf-club-prices-are-up-scores-are-not-down.html

The reality is, cost of materials and cost of labor all go up over time, not down. Prices reflect that in literally every single thing - golf clubs, cars, computers, dishwashers, you name it.

[Rickp]

1 hour ago, 6 Million Dollar Man said:

Not just because I play them but I wonder how disruptive PXG has been.  During the Genesis they were advertising drivers at $199 again.  They always have some sort of deal on their stuff. Because they are private we may never know how much of a market disruptor they are.  But at my club im seeing more and more PXG headcovers.

 

Second point.  Once you have been fitted 5 or 6 times as I have, you just know.  I swing at 90 MPH.  Once you know a little about soft tip versus firm tip, shaft weight, etc. You can gamble on fitting yourself.  I'm not tooting PXG's horn but they will walk you through the rest on the phone.  Worked for me on a driver, two fairway woods and two wedges.

 

The same mentality can be applied to any club manufacturer and versus $600+ it's worth a roll of the dice especially if you go to a place like Dick's and hit a few models.

Yup, PXG is getting a presence here with the “Senior” folks.  The reduced price point on 0211 & 0311 drivers has an impact.  

[Tim McCarthy]

Every year the new model comes out- every year the promise of distance!! Promise of control! Promise of piercing ball flight!! 

If the distance REALLY grew 5 yards every year as promised, we'd all be averaging 400+ yards by now.

My opinion - stick with what lands you in the fairway the most and spend the $600 on tee times & beer!! 

 

 

[Gripit]

Fixed income retiree here.  Don't play competitions, just for personal enjoyment and exercise.  Play to a 15 according to the Grint.  Price is EVERYTHING to me.  I just can't justify the $$$. The only OEM clubs in my bag right now (and for the last two years) are driver and 3w and they are Ping G5's I bought for less than $100 each.  I've hit newer clubs, but they haven't outperformed these enough to replace them, and I can't personally justify spending hundreds of dollars anyway. 

But I do know how manufacturing/retail works.  If folks are willing to spend the $$, then GOOD FOR THEM and for the OEM's.  If the prices have gone too high the market will adjust itself.

[Clay5477]

I actually read every comment, so apologies if I missed anyone who already said this, but here's my dos centavos. For the record, currently gaming a Cobra F9 something something that I bought the year after the next one came out. I'm a solid "two years behind" guy.

When contemplating a new $600+ driver, the one thought that keeps banging in my head is this:

How many lessons can I get for $600, and which choice, driver or lessons, will lower my handicap the most?

Done.

(To be clear, if I were still playing a 10-year-old driver, the choice would be different, but most of us aren't.)

Edited February 20, 2023 by Clay5477

[Javs]

I find when I swing faster and hit it in the middle of the club, then I have a new driver!

[drb1956]

1 hour ago, BigUrsus said:

R580xd came out 20 years ago with a $500 pricetag. I'd say driver prices have remained fairly unchanged since. 

Bought a demo of a club the just had been released that year. Club retailed at $299. I purchased a demo of that club for $125+ tax at Golfsmith. Played that driver for over 10 years. Now I have a G410, purchased in 2020, for $399. Will be playing this driver at least 10 years. Once I find something, I get comfortable, it helps my game, I play the hell out of it. I can always change shafts, if I really need to, which I don't do "exotic" shafts, just tried and true brands I know. Golf is expensive as it is...

[GPS111]

Agree with this one. For me driver prices went from ridiculous to sublime several years ago.  Now they are where I don't  look at them any more.  Way too much money for a club I'll use 14 times or less per round with no real distance advantage over what I currently have.  Yes materials and technology are improving but does that always translate to consistent performance on the course?  Golf is player vs the course.  Pick the tools that do the best job for you, not by what the marketing says.   Second to that is maintenance. Break a shaft and the fix is over $300.  Or when the new club "stops working" (as they always do) and you tinker, the same $300+ to try something different.

[Jim Shaw]

wow, what a great thread.

Golf is cyclical, many things have affected these cycles, great players coming on the scene ie, Bob Jones, Ben Hogan, Jack Nicklaus, Tiger Woods (and tiger came up through the invention of the world wide web so that combination was epic. 

Economy, Bob Jones and the 1920's, Ben Hogan and post world war 2, Jack Nicklaus and the late 1960's, and of course I mentioned tiger and the invention of the internet. The crash of the stock market in the 1920's, Baby boomers getting many other sports options, High interest rates in the late 70's early 80's and then the dip once Tiger started to back off his schedule, all these things and I am sure others contribute to the up and down cycles.

Supply and demand dictate the prices of product so we should see a dip in pricing in the next 3-5 years as there is definitely a decline in participation since covid restrictions have been eased, golf is too tough a game and if we (the golf community) retain 2-3% of the new golfers that would be a win for us.

At the high end of competition it wont be affected as much as the amount of players at that level has been consistent throughout the cycles...

[nswillets_0817]

To your point..... I believe driver prices, and all club prices, have risen way too much over the last 5 years.  I know that R & D costs $, but the dramatic rise in golf club prices, especially drivers, has prevented me in buying new clubs for years. As stated in other emails, I have been fitted and I take my results and buy used clubs and modify them to my specs. Clubs have just gotten too expensive to buy new ones every year....

[RickyBobby_PR]

3 hours ago, Bucky CC said:

I'm in this exact dilemma right now.  I'm a little wild off the tee (who isn't) and wouldn't mind seeing what's out there.  On the other hand my Radspeed driver is only 2 years old and there's a very low probability that any of the new drivers will be a significant improvement over it.  I can guarantee if drivers were a little cheaper I would be all over a new one.  Looking at $600+ for a 2023 model ($850 for a Paradym with "stock" Ventus shaft) has me reluctant to even demo anything for fear of falling in love with something new.

I do have some shop credit though so I'm sure I'll find a way to justify hitting up some demos once the snow melts.

Were you fit to your current driver?

1 hour ago, berkeleybob said:

I’m not sure anyone is going to come on to this thread to declare they would and will in fact pay top dollar for a new driver. But surely people are doing just that. There were many who bought into the whole PXG pricejacking thing, buyers and sellers alike—not sure why that would stop now. Is it really absurd to think that in five years some drivers will be offered at $800, $900 even a $1000 a pop?

I never buy used or previous release models that are on end of release cycle sale.

But yes the number on this forum who buy new is small compared to other forums. 

18 minutes ago, nswillets_0817 said:

To your point..... I believe driver prices, and all club prices, have risen way too much over the last 5 years.  I know that R & D costs $, but the dramatic rise in golf club prices, especially drivers, has prevented me in buying new clubs for years. As stated in other emails, I have been fitted and I take my results and buy used clubs and modify them to my specs. Clubs have just gotten too expensive to buy new ones every year....

You do release cost of materials, cost of labor, cost to ship parts from overseas as well as from where they are built to the customer have all gone up in that same period of time. Those costs are going to be passed on to the consumer. Golf is no different than any other consumer product, everything has gone up significantly in price. 

[RayP]

Seems like every six months they are coming out with the next best thing. I know technology changes pretty fast these days. I was always under the assumption that the club shaft was the motor. So I can definitely see where that technology comes into play. Seems like they should focus on the shafts a little more. Instead of using a $3.00 stock shaft just a guess on that’s painted a different color each year. 

[chisag]

...   Always entertaining question: is the glass half full or half empty and then read forum golfers look at the glass and proclaim "Which OEM stole my water!!!" The marketing was the same in the 1950's when irons were solid muscle backs and drivers were a solid hunk of persimmon wood. Yet choosing the right ones will Lower Your Score and are 25-50yds LONGER!  

... And for the gazillionth time, Marketing isn't meant for last years customers. It is for anyone in the market for a new club. Hundreds of thousands of golfers around the world are looking for a new driver because theirs are older models and they are finally ready to buy another. Or they just don't like the model they are playing. Or their driver has let them down too many times and they mentally (not physically) want a new one. Or they just like the ay a new driver looks or sounds. I could go on but the point is there is a huge market for new drivers every year.

... To answer the question, yes I think all of us are finding $600 too steep a price. $549 seems closer to $500 but TM going to $579 last year for the Stealth closed in on the $600 and (gulp) over price tag. It seems most other OEMs have followed. For me, there is usually some weakness in my current driver and it can be as little as I don't love a mat finish, or I could use a little more or less spin, or sound and feel could be better and of course just the look at address. 

... I do think buying last years model is the best new bargain in golf. With prices going up this year and last years prices going down, why wouldn't a savy consumer take advantage? But at this point in my life I can afford a new $600 driver and I found one that was better than my Sim2 Max I would not hesitate to purchase one. That said I attempted to do that last season and demoed all the new drivers but none surpassed the performance or personal criteria of looks/sound/feel. I have already demoed the Paradym and crossed that off my list. I will demo the TSR, Aerojet and the Stealth 2 as they are the only drivers that I am interested in. But I have a feeling I will be playing my Sim2 Max for a 3rd season and I can't remember the last time that happened. A combination of I like the look/feel/sound, performance is dialed in for my swing and I have gotten very comfortable playing it. But I will always be looking ...
 

 

 

[GPS111]

1 hour ago, Tim McCarthy said:

Every year the new model comes out- every year the promise of distance!! Promise of control! Promise of piercing ball flight!! 

If the distance REALLY grew 5 yards every year as promised, we'd all be averaging 400+ yards by now.

My opinion - stick with what lands you in the fairway the most and spend the $600 on tee times & beer!! 

 

 

 

4 minutes ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

Golf is no different than any other consumer product, everything has gone up significantly in price. 

Indeed.  My wife went grocery shopping and a head of cauliflower was $11!

[mywong23]

I noticed Titleist are charging $100 for fitments.   which used to be for free.....

However, Titleist will credit you $100, if you buy their clubs...

Perhaps other manufacturers will follow suit.... or not....

 

[Golfspy_CG2]

1 hour ago, Gripit said:

Fixed income retiree here.  Don't play competitions, just for personal enjoyment and exercise.  Play to a 15 according to the Grint.  Price is EVERYTHING to me.  I just can't justify the $$$. The only OEM clubs in my bag right now (and for the last two years) are driver and 3w and they are Ping G5's I bought for less than $100 each.  I've hit newer clubs, but they haven't outperformed these enough to replace them, and I can't personally justify spending hundreds of dollars anyway. 

But I do know how manufacturing/retail works.  If folks are willing to spend the $$, then GOOD FOR THEM and for the OEM's.  If the prices have gone too high the market will adjust itself.

Good post.

I"m probably a few years from joining you in the retired fixed income group. Something I'm both looking forward to and dreading at the same time.  So I'll make sure a year or two before that occurs that I have something that I can live with for the next 10 years or so at least.    

I"m actually kind of already planning that fo rmy next vehicle purchase, wanting to buy it close enought that It'll be paid off before I retire, but no so soon, I'l put 70K miles on it before I do. 

 

[Golfspy_CG2]

12 minutes ago, mywong23 said:

I noticed Titleist are charging $100 for fitments.   which used to be for free.....

However, Titleist will credit you $100, if you buy their clubs...

Perhaps other manufacturers will follow suit.... or not....

 

That accomplishes two thigns.  It keeps away the "tire kickers" to use a term to show how old I am    And 2, the serious buyers get a "free" fititng as you mentioned the cost is put towards the driver/club if purchased. 

In addtion as someone who has assited on dozens of these Titleist Fittings, you get a true professional that will spend an hour with you to get you dialed in to the correct (Titleist) product.    

It's a good point, I wish otther OEM's did it, it and perhaps they will.  $100 toward a quality fitting is money well spent, even if you decide not to buy at that point, you will have the info to use later. 

[funkyjudge]

19 hours ago, GolfSpy_APH said:

I guess I will answer your question with another question or kinda statement.

Do you think the customers you have who likely have been fit before are knowledgeable enough that they feel there is better value in buying last year's release at what would be half the price? 

More golfers are being fit, more golfers are getting more knowledge and maybe this in turn is leading to "smarter" purchases. Or more value purchases knowing they can get 95+% of the performance at 50% of the price. 

So far, I have had the opportunity to hit the Ping G430 driver lineup (Max and LST models) and Titleist TSR drivers, and I found that neither/none of them performed any better than my Ping G425 Max or my modified Titleist TSi1 driver (shortened by 3/4” and about 9 grams of extra weight added at the rear weight port).

 I have also hit the new Callaway Paradym driver and had high hopes for it, but I could not find a Paradym model that gave me any type of performance upgrade over the drivers that I currently own.

For me, the Ping G425 Max 9* driver (standard loft and lie settling and 45.25” playing length with the Ping Tour 65-R shaft) gives me more distance and much higher percentage of fairways hit than any other driver I’ve tried, including these  highly-touted 2023 driver models. I suspect that many other golfers who have gone through recent driver fittings may be seeing the same type of results.

Unless you have an extra $600 burning a hole in your pocket, or you just have to own the “latest and greatest” driver (and other golf gear), why make the change when the new club(s) don’t provide any measurable improvements?

[chisag]

1 minute ago, Golfspy_CG2 said:

That accomplishes two thigns.  It keeps away the "tire kickers" to use a term to show how old I am    And 2, the serious buyers get a "free" fititng as you mentioned the cost is put towards the driver/club if purchased. 

In addtion as someone who has assited on dozens of these Titleist Fittings, you get a true professional that will spend an hour with you to get you dialed in to the correct (Titleist) product.    

It's a good point, I wish otther OEM's did it, it and perhaps they will.  $100 toward a quality fitting is money well spent, even if you decide not to buy at that point, you will have the info to use later. 

 

... In a community like Phoenix where you can play year round and have snowbirds that fly back home in April, seeding new club reviews is a no brainer. A Canadian heading back home with a new driver and word of mouth endorsements before their friends are buying a driver is extremely valuable. Free Demo days are everywhere and yes, it will include some tire kickers. The said, I get northern climates can be inundated by those cooped up all winter and want a free demo day just to hit balls so not even tire kickers. It's tricky for sure. 

... So while I agree that a $100 fee that is subtracted from the purchase price with a 1 hour detailed fitting is awesome for someone that knows they want a Titleist driver. But without free fittings too, they just might be losing customers. I am not paying $100 for a fitting because I don't know if I want a TSR. I may or I may not. Same would be true for the Aerojet and the Stealth 2 as these are the three drivers I am interested in for 2023.