Custom iron order messed up

[RollingGreens]

Hey guys so I’ve been thinking about this over the last few days whether I wanted to bring it to the forum or keep it to myself. Last week I went in for a loft and lie adjustment to a local club builder, he’s a very reputable guy and does a lot of building and repair. I have a set of JPX 921 Hot metal irons I was fit for in November of 2020 from a local mom and pop shop, I received them just before January of 2021. When I went through the fitting it was decided that my irons need to be 2 degrees upright. I ordered a set to the specs that were decided during the fitting. When the set arrived in I was very particular asking the customer service representative if everything had come out to spec. He said yes, but I had some doubts. To the naked eye everything looked fine so I went a long with it. 
Flash forward to this last season and I put in a tremendous amount of practice with my golf swing at the range and the course. The results showed as my handicap index decreased from a 15 to an 8. So last week I went in to make sure my irons were adjusted to the correct loft and lie that I had ordered them to. I’m a novice club builder and had looked up that cast clubs might be able to be adjusted. Upon taking them to the builder he said he would check loft and lie in a few clubs even if he couldn’t adjust them for me. Well, every single club is standard lie not 2 degrees upright. I’m torn on what to do because I made significant progress last year, but more than likely I changed my swing to fit the clubs vs having the clubs fit me. I practiced a ton. The other thing I am irked about is these weren’t cheap, I paid for the fitting just like I paid for the irons. I spent more money than I would have liked, waited a decent amount of time like everyone else only to have received the wrong order

One day I want to call the shop and discuss that my order is wrong because of the money I paid and the importance of attention to detail. I don’t feel that I am wrong because after taking about 6 weeks off from golf a lot of the toe strike issues I had are creeping back. The shop has a reputation for not making these mistakes. They are cast clubs so bending is not an option at this point from what I’ve found out. If I would have got fitted I probably wouldn’t be upset. The big question for me is do I go back to the company and see what they can do, reach out the the local mizuno rep, or just keep going the way things are and be happy with my progress and scoring abilities 

Edited February 20, 2022 by RollingGreens

[MattF]

Here is the biggest issue I see. They are over a year old and you didn't have them checked for the ordered specs when you picked them up, either at that shop or another one. So, I hate to say it, but that's now on you.

[RollingGreens]

13 minutes ago, MattF said:

Here is the biggest issue I see. They are over a year old and you didn't have them checked for the ordered specs when you picked them up, either at that shop or another one. So, I hate to say it, but that's now on you.

I would agree. I took the service guy to be honest and it probably came back to bite me. From what I’ve researched and was told by the builder these clubs can’t be bent. They essentially wouldn’t have changed lie at all since I’ve had them

[MattF]

Actually, the majority of cast clubs can be bent but you have to take them to someone that knows what they're doing. Give the guys at Windmill Golf Center a call. If he was close, I'd take them to @McGolf.

[RollingGreens]

1 minute ago, MattF said:

Actually, the majority of cast clubs can be bent but you have to take them to someone that knows what they're doing. Give the guys at Windmill Golf Center a call. If he was close, I'd take them to @McGolf.

I had tiger nick try them since he has a shop in the town I work at

Just now, RollingGreens said:

I had tiger nick try them since he has a shop in the town I work at

I also got them from windmill…

[RollingGreens]

I just don’t feel that the consumer should be responsible for checking loft and lie in new clubs that were custom fit

[hckymeyer]

I've had cast clubs bent, at the time my guy said he could do it but wouldn't every go more than 2 degree's either way with cast clubs.

Put it this way, Mizuno isn't making custom molds to cast your irons 2 degrees up.  They are bending them after.

I'm just guessing here, but the shop probably ordered direct from mizuno with your specs.  They (like you) just assumed they came in correctly.  They should have checked when they came in but honestly it's fairly common for custom orders from big OEM's to not be correct on spec.  Some are better than others at it but I hear horror stories all the time.

I'd call the place you got them from first.  Just explain you finally had the lie angles checked and they are off, ask if they can do anything.  Just be nice about it and understand it's been a year and they might not offer anything.

Depending how that conversation goes just call around to some local builders and see if anyone is comfortable (and experienced) with bending them to the spec you want.

Good luck!

[Hook DeLoft]

I’ve had cast clubs bent many times without any problems. @hckymeyer ‘s advice is spot on. 

[RollingGreens]

I will give it a go then

[GaDawg]

Cast clubs can be bent, but the person has to be careful doing it.

If you are playing well with them be careful or you may have to change your swing again. I know it's a pain to deal with this, but it seems that no one does their job correctly anymore.

[RickyBobby_PR]

10 hours ago, RollingGreens said:

I just don’t feel that the consumer should be responsible for checking loft and lie in new clubs that were custom fit

There are build tolerances that each manufacturer has. 2* either way is typically within standard. Lie is about the same. Length iirc is 1/8” and swing with can be a couple points or so. 
 

This is nothing new and has been that way for many years. Unfortunately you bought/ordered during a time when many places were running short staffed and overwhelmed with orders. This has caused companies with usually pretty tight build tolerance to have things get closer to the industry norm.

Checking loft and lie upon delivery is key. Doing your own builds or having a club builder build all your clubs are the only ways to guarantee that they are on the dot to spec. This costs a lot more as a downside 

[TR1PTIK]

The one thing I don't see mentioned anywhere in the conversation is ball flight. You say you were "fit" for 2* upright, but have had the clubs for a year and made progress with them. Do you actually have any issues finding target? Do the irons move through the turf correctly? I understand wanting to be upset, but based on the information you've provided does it really even matter at this point? I'd say, take as a lesson learned and move on.

[RickyBobby_PR]

Something else to consider is the machine used to measure by Mizuno and whether it’s the same as the one at the shop. Could be different readings if not the same

[RollingGreens]

8 hours ago, TR1PTIK said:

The one thing I don't see mentioned anywhere in the conversation is ball flight. You say you were "fit" for 2* upright, but have had the clubs for a year and made progress with them. Do you actually have any issues finding target? Do the irons move through the turf correctly? I understand wanting to be upset, but based on the information you've provided does it really even matter at this point? I'd say, take as a lesson learned and move on.

I see a fair amount of toe strikes and the strike position is located just to the outside of center. Outside of that I’ve worked through everything last year when it wasn’t working. I’m more upset because you invest the money and I didn’t get what I paid for

[TR1PTIK]

23 minutes ago, RollingGreens said:

 I’m more upset because you invest the money and I didn’t get what I paid for

I understand that part and would likely be frustrated if it happened to me. I'm just suggesting that if you've been able to make improvements and with so much time having passed, maybe it's best to simply continue moving forward.

If you're really that concerned about the lie angle, do another fitting (maybe somewhere else) specifically for loft & lie. If it's still recommended that lie be 2* upright from your current specs then talk to a professional about how that can be done. It may require the use of heat, but most irons (even cast) can be adjusted to some degree.

Mizuno's website shows the JPX 921 HM's can be adjusted for loft on their blended set matrix so no reason to think it would be impossible to adjust for lie. Mizuno Irons Comparison - Mizuno Golf USA

 

[RickyBobby_PR]

2 hours ago, RollingGreens said:

I see a fair amount of toe strikes and the strike position is located just to the outside of center. Outside of that I’ve worked through everything last year when it wasn’t working. I’m more upset because you invest the money and I didn’t get what I paid for

You did get what you paid for because it falls within the build tolerance. Waiting over a year to check them when you should have had them verified upon arrival. The other question would be why wait til now and now at some point during last season if you were noticing toe strikes. 
 

You can use the sharpie lie test to see if you still need 2* or something different. Since the best explanation for it is from another forum I won’t link it here but search sharpie lie test and it will be one of the first few hits.

[MattF]

24 minutes ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

You did get what you paid for because it falls within the build tolerance. Waiting over a year to check them when you should have had them verified upon arrival. The other question would be why wait til now and now at some point during last season if you were noticing toe strikes. 
 

You can use the sharpie lie test to see if you still need 2* or something different. Since the best explanation for it is from another forum I won’t link it here but search sharpie lie test and it will be one of the first few hits.

From a couple of years ago on this site:
 

 

[RollingGreens]

54 minutes ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

You did get what you paid for because it falls within the build tolerance. Waiting over a year to check them when you should have had them verified upon arrival. The other question would be why wait til now and now at some point during last season if you were noticing toe strikes. 
 

You can use the sharpie lie test to see if you still need 2* or something different. Since the best explanation for it is from another forum I won’t link it here but search sharpie lie test and it will be one of the first few hits.

The shop said they were checked. Whether they actually were is another story. Last year they weren’t much of an issue. Toe strikes are coming back now  plus I needed to have a couple new wedges checked  which is the only reason I brought them with me .  I probably will do the sharpie test when I have a chance and go from there. Some of it could also be from not swinging for a few weeks.  I guess next time I’ll Just have everything checked in front of me before I pay. 

2 hours ago, TR1PTIK said:

I understand that part and would likely be frustrated if it happened to me. I'm just suggesting that if you've been able to make improvements and with so much time having passed, maybe it's best to simply continue moving forward.

If you're really that concerned about the lie angle, do another fitting (maybe somewhere else) specifically for loft & lie. If it's still recommended that lie be 2* upright from your current specs then talk to a professional about how that can be done. It may require the use of heat, but most irons (even cast) can be adjusted to some degree.

Mizuno's website shows the JPX 921 HM's can be adjusted for loft on their blended set matrix so no reason to think it would be impossible to adjust for lie. Mizuno Irons Comparison - Mizuno Golf USA

 

 

[RickyBobby_PR]

1 hour ago, RollingGreens said:

Some of it could also be from not swinging for a few weeks.  I guess next time I’ll Just have everything checked in front of me before I pay. 

This is probably a good portion of it. Time off from anything will cause some regression. 

[ChitownM2]

Couple of points....

1) You gave generalities about the lie angle that you were fitted for and then again a generality about what the shop measured your clubs at a year later.  Did either the original fitter or the shop checking a year later provide you the actual measured lie angles?  2° up on Mizuno Hot metals = standard lie angle from TM.  Every manufacturer is different on what "standard" lie is.  I would double check this before doing anything as they may not actually be incorrect

2) Assuming #1 proves that they are indeed the wrong lie angle, explain the situation to the original fitter which sounds like they are who you purchased the clubs from and ask them to take 20 min and check *your current swing* to see if you still need the clubs 2° upright, this is a reasonable request to resolve the situation and costs them nothing out of pocket other than shortening someone's lunch hour.  It's possible that with all your practice and improvements you made you may no longer need upright clubs in which case, problem is solved.  

3) If #1 & #2 both show you need the clubs bent, see if the original shop would be willing to split the cost of sending the clubs back to Mizuno to be adjusted.  Mizuno will do this for you (for a fee) and they are unlikely to break the club since you are asking them to bend them within the allowable range for what they would have done from the get go.  Plus if they do break them, there is a chance they would just replace the head for you since it's a current model club and they should have bent it properly for you the first time.

[MGoBlue100]

On 2/20/2022 at 11:05 AM, hckymeyer said:

I've had cast clubs bent, at the time my guy said he could do it but wouldn't every go more than 2 degree's either way with cast clubs.

Put it this way, Mizuno isn't making custom molds to cast your irons 2 degrees up.  They are bending them after.

I'm no club building expert, and I would defer to a lot of people on this forum, but I have also been told +/- two degrees for cast clubs in the past.