Liv Golf Central Thread: Events and News

[LICC]

14 hours ago, GolfSpy_APH said:

I finished up the NLU podcast and when they were talking to KVV he had a wild idea that I actually like. It is bold, a little brash and well would certainly send a message. 

What KVV purposed was for Jay and the PGA Tour to come out and announce The Players officially as the 5th Major, run direclty by the Tour. Run by their rules and their eligibilty. What they choose to do with those who have one previous Players is up to them. Call them Majors or whatever, however this is the kind of bold move I would like to see the Tour make in response. 

I don’t think the PGA Tour right now wants to do something that would at the least irritate or alienate any of the organizations that run the majors. 

[LICC]

14 hours ago, GolfSpy_APH said:

if OWGR points get awarded

Chamblee made a good case yesterday why it is unlikely OWGR points will get awarded to LIV tournaments. They rarely give points to 54 hole events and then only for tournaments run in countries where the organizers have financial difficulty. The other issue is the shotgun start. The courses aren’t being played by all in the manner that the courses were designed for competitive play. 

[MGoBlue100]

41 minutes ago, LICC said:

Chamblee made a good case yesterday why it is unlikely OWGR points will get awarded to LIV tournaments. They rarely give points to 54 hole events and then only for tournaments run in countries where the organizers have financial difficulty. The other issue is the shotgun start. The courses aren’t being played by all in the manner that the courses were designed for competitive play. 

Yeah; that’s a good point. However, as we’ve seen things can and do change. Perhaps reduced OWGR points? Obviously all speculation at this point, but interesting to ponder… 

[DaveP043]

33 minutes ago, MGoBlue100 said:

Yeah; that’s a good point. However, as we’ve seen things can and do change. Perhaps reduced OWGR points? Obviously all speculation at this point, but interesting to ponder… 

In reading on the OWGR website, part of the calculation is strength of field.  With only 48 players, and none of the very top players, AND 54 hole events, my guess is that the points from a typical LIV event won't be nearly as high as those from the John Deere Classic, or any of the other lightly regarded PGA Tour events. 

[fixyurdivot]

30 minutes ago, DaveP043 said:

In reading on the OWGR website, part of the calculation is strength of field.  With only 48 players, and none of the very top players, AND 54 hole events, my guess is that the points from a typical LIV event won't be nearly as high as those from the John Deere Classic, or any of the other lightly regarded PGA Tour events. 

It's likely the majority of these fields players won't care about OWGR as it pertains to majors - they wouldn't be there anyway. Those top players that decide on LIV will just have to roll the dice on how the majors governing bodies and OWGR points are decided.  In trade will be the rather lucrative financial benefits.  It's just one trade-off after another.

Anyone hearing whether DP Tour is going to allow LIV players to join that tour?  In a somewhat "coming home to roost" way, this may end up dealing the PGA the same hand they dealt the Euro Tour decades ago.

[Motoboss]

I’m anxious to see what happens after the US Open.

OWGR points

Defections

The Open and Masters stance

If nothing changes this could very well be the last US Open the LIV players ever play.

Next year will bring forth the big changes, for PGA and LIV,  me thinks.

[DaveP043]

3 minutes ago, fixyurdivot said:

Anyone hearing whether DP Tour is going to allow LIV players to join that tour?  In a somewhat "coming home to roost" way, this may end up dealing the PGA the same hand they dealt the Euro Tour decades ago.

I've read rumors that some players plan to play DP or Asian Tour events, but nothing from the Tours themselves.  I understand that these tours all have some kind of strategic agreements with the PGA Tour, but I really don't know whether they'll follow the lead of the PGA Tour.  Also, I don't know if their membership agreements have requirements similar to those in the PGA Tour member's agreement.

[LICC]

49 minutes ago, DaveP043 said:

In reading on the OWGR website, part of the calculation is strength of field.  With only 48 players, and none of the very top players, AND 54 hole events, my guess is that the points from a typical LIV event won't be nearly as high as those from the John Deere Classic, or any of the other lightly regarded PGA Tour events. 

That reminded me that Chamblee also said OWGR generally requires at least 72 players in a field to give points, with some limited exceptions.

[LICC]

8 minutes ago, Motoboss said:

I’m anxious to see what happens after the US Open.

OWGR points

Defections

The Open and Masters stance

If nothing changes this could very well be the last US Open the LIV players ever play.

Next year will bring forth the big changes, for PGA and LIV,  me thinks.

If the majors keep their existing exemptions, Phil, DJ, and Bryson will still be eligible for at least some of the majors for quite a number of years based on their most recent major wins.

[fixyurdivot]

12 minutes ago, DaveP043 said:

I've read rumors that some players plan to play DP or Asian Tour events, but nothing from the Tours themselves.  I understand that these tours all have some kind of strategic agreements with the PGA Tour, but I really don't know whether they'll follow the lead of the PGA Tour.  Also, I don't know if their membership agreements have requirements similar to those in the PGA Tour member's agreement.

It would seem that, if the PGA stays the course, this would be there path. I think it would be hard for a competing tours (and let's be honest, they are competing) to tell top 50 players no.  

[DaveP043]

11 minutes ago, LICC said:

That reminded me that Chamblee also said OWGR generally requires at least 72 players in a field to give points, with some limited exceptions.

I heard the same thing, I hadn't read that on the OWGR site.  They also said that the LIV people had applied to get ranking points, and they may negotiate some kind of agreement, I'd bet they points awarded will be pretty low.

3 minutes ago, fixyurdivot said:

It would seem that, if the PGA stays the course, this would be there path. I think it would be hard for a competing tours (and let's be honest, they are competing) to tell top 50 players no.  

Perhaps they ARE competing, but the LIV Tour could threaten their continued success as well.  Particularly if the LIV Tour expands to additional events, additional locations, they could threaten to suck up a lot of the top talent.  I guess we'll find out before very long.

[MyWifesSwingCoach]

On 6/11/2022 at 1:13 PM, TR1PTIK said:

Watched James Wiltshire's latest video from LIV and a few things stuck out to me:

#1 There's a lot of interest in seeing these guys play regardless of the funding.

#2 The potential for viewership and reach far exceeds that of the PGA Tour due to the welcoming of personalities such as James posting content to their own channels. Obviously, if you follow James at all you know he was invited and granted special access by LIV, but allowing him to create his own content rather than having him as a "guest" on their programming is different and something I quite enjoy.

#3 This course does not look easy. I don't actually know anything about it, but based on what I've seen from the LIV feed and JW's channel there are some remarkably tough tee shots with trouble on both sides, native grass areas that IMO are much more penal than the even cut rough at the RBC and the wind has been blowing quite a bit from my understanding. I think I am more surprised by Schwartzel playing at -9 than I am by the number of players who are over par.

#4 (Watching the LIV feed) We get to see a LOT of golf from golfers I've never heard of, can't pronounce half their names, and that's kinda cool. I'd hate to watch featured group type coverage of a bunch of golfers I don't know, but getting to see snippets of them is great IMO.

#5 (Related to #4) I like the updated scoring on the left of the screen, but I find it difficult to understand who's who sometimes based on how they shortened the names. I'd love to seem them play around with this a bit more.

I'm not saying I am pro-LIV, but I'm certainly not against some of the things they are trying. Would love to see some of these attempted on the PGA Tour.

 

These are the types of things the PGA needs to keep an eye on, I am sure there are more things good and not so good but seeing the goods and bads of LIV can help PGA improve things for everyone and improve their product.

[Middler]

Alan Shipnuck was one of the golf journalists thrown out of an LIV press conference. Shipnuck sent Norman a tweet shortly thereafter, shows how Norman operates...loser.

 

[Hacker1]

On 6/11/2022 at 2:36 PM, cnosil said:

Here's the next wave of players; based on reports:

Rickie Fowler, Matthew Wolff, Pat Perez, Jason Kokrak

https://progolfweekly.com/rickie-fowler-matthew-wolff-among-latest-names-to-join-liv-golf/

Sad to see Rickie and Mat go.

[ZJBogey2]

22 hours ago, GolfSpy_APH said:

One thing I did kinda overlook is yes it is 8 events this year. However it is 15 next year and moving forward. 

Apparently several of these players have signed 5 year deals with LIV, so if OWGR points get awarded a lot of these guys are still looking at playing 20 ish weeks a year which is similar to what most of them do already. If not more. 

Yes the money is much better. We know that and it always will be. The LIV golfers are being paid far above their market value.... This is also why I like the Team format. Maybe golfers can be signed to guaranteed deals on teams? Anyway not about to go down that route again. I already mentioned I like the team format... just on a better more thoughtout manner. 

There is still the option for the Tour to get in with the PGL which could bring in similar funding or at least a partner willing to bring in funding and push the game forward. 

Interesting to think about it this way...you say paid far above their market value...say DJ has a 5 year, $100MM deal...at $20MM a year that isn't outrageous compared to other professional leagues/athletes of his caliber. 

Even though Jay didnt ask me, my preferred path is reduce the required minimum events of the players, as contracts wind down at events, reduce the number of total events from 48 to 40 or utilize alternate events when up against LIV, and incorporate the WGC events with the LIV events some how. I think players may be more likely to play with less demands on their schedule like the pro/ams and 54 holes to where they might play more events potentially. 

[RickyBobby_PR]

22 minutes ago, Hacker1 said:

Sad to see Rickie and Mat go.

Other than kokrak who had a nice run last year the other 3 at this point have only a small chance at winning or even contending week to week. Perez is up in age, Rickie’s best days are more so in the side mirror approaching the rear view mirror and Matt Wolff as much as I like him, he wasn’t able to handle the mental grind of tour golf season after season and no cut 54 hole golf probably fits him better.

The tour loses nothing for the most part, although Rickie had a good fan base each event 

[Hacker1]

On 6/12/2022 at 1:21 PM, Shankster said:

My sister in law wen to the WM Open… she doesn’t even know a single golfers name.  Went for the beer I am assuming.  
 

I’ve often wondered why major events always have to be surrounded by alcohol sponsors?  Do the events suck that bad that you can’t enjoy them without a buzz?  
 

I don’t get it either, never will.

Very good points. Booze is not needed.

[TBS]

6 hours ago, fixyurdivot said:

It would seem that, if the PGA stays the course, this would be there path. I think it would be hard for a competing tours (and let's be honest, they are competing) to tell top 50 players no.  

One aspect that is still not clear is what is exactly in the LIV contracts. There has been rumors about having to play some asian tour events. The lighter schedule might actually turn out heavier on travel.

[Middler]

1 hour ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

Other than kokrak who had a nice run last year the other 3 at this point have only a small chance at winning or even contending week to week. Perez is up in age, Rickie’s best days are more so in the side mirror approaching the rear view mirror and Matt Wolff as much as I like him, he wasn’t able to handle the mental grind of tour golf season after season and no cut 54 hole golf probably fits him better.

The tour loses nothing for the most part, although Rickie had a good fan base each event 

It’s still going to be interesting to see how sponsors react. I assume in Rickie’s case, sponsor dollars were almost all of his income over the last few years…

I don’t care about any of the players who’ve chosen LIV make out. They’ve made their choices, we’ll see who the winners and losers are among players, tours, sponsors and “funding entities.”

[RickyBobby_PR]

10 minutes ago, Middler said:

It’s still going to be interesting to see how sponsors react. I assume in Rickie’s case, sponsor dollars were almost all of his income over the last few years…

I don’t care about any of the players who’ve chosen LIV make out. They’ve made their choices, we’ll see how it pans out for everyone.

I would expect that to be true. He’s made roughly $40 million in career earning and from what I recall seeing a few years back he was pulling in $10mil in sponsorship money. I think this is one of the reasons he never left cobra/puma. He probably wouldn’t have gotten the same money from other brands and iirc it was titleist that cut him loose at the end of his ball deal and not the other way around so they probably saw his lack of recent success not being as valuable to them