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Grand Stranded

Mizuno 919 Hot Metal or Cally Apex19 irons?

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I've hit both, but only on an indoor sim at a PGA store. Hard to tell much of a difference off mats.

I'm 65 years old, playing off a 13. Playing just below sea level, my 7 iron is my 145 club, but I'm playing very strongly lofted irons. My problem with the Rogue X's I'm playing are the strong lofts mess up the bottom of my bag (56* is my most lofted wedge) and the dispersion isn't the best. They go far, but lack the accuracy my CF 16's did. Those were the last steel shafted irons I played, and when I switched to graphite, I figured I'd change to a more SGI iron also. To be honest, I don't think I needed that, and the smaller head appealed more to my eye. I don't want to give up too much distance, but my short game isn't the best, and missing a green by more then a few yards usually results in a two putt bogey, so accuracy is more important to me.

My question is which of the these two would be best for me going forward? My goal is single digits, and I'm thinking the Rogue X's aren't the club to get me to that goal, plus I want a quality "better player" set that will last a few years. The non forged 919 with Recoil 460 ESX and the Apex CF 19's with Catalyst 60 reg (5.0) are the two I've narrowed it down to.

With pro shop credit (has to be used by Dec 31) that can be used toward Callaway products, both will end up costing about the same, so price isn't a factor. Which way would you guys go? Is there another iron that you think might be better for someone like me then these two? I'm open to any and all suggestions....

Edited by Grand Stranded

:ping-small: G400 Max 9*

:callaway-small: Rogue 15*  

:callaway-small: Rogue X 3 & 4 hybrids 

:callaway-small: Rogue X 5-AW 

:cleveland-small: CBX 52* & 58*

:odyssey-small: Stroke Lab Double Wide 34"

 

 

 

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How about the hot metal pro? The shape is a little closer to the Apex and might give you the best of both worlds.


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:wilson_staff_small:  Cortex w/Aldila Rogue Silver 110 MSI 70X Tipped 1"

:wilson_staff_small: F5 17 degree hybrid w/Rogue Black 85X

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:wilson_staff_small: FG Tour V6 5-6 w/C-Taper 130X

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@Rtracymog I'm a lefty, so my options are limited when it comes to both demoing and models of clubs.

I sort of get lost with the "pro" designation companies put on clubs. Wouldn't those be more like the Apex pros? I'm assuming they are a lot more demanding then the HM's or Apex, so it's a category I've never tried.


:ping-small: G400 Max 9*

:callaway-small: Rogue 15*  

:callaway-small: Rogue X 3 & 4 hybrids 

:callaway-small: Rogue X 5-AW 

:cleveland-small: CBX 52* & 58*

:odyssey-small: Stroke Lab Double Wide 34"

 

 

 

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I think either would be fine. The rogue X could also get you to single digit.

Which of the two have the best dispersion, how was shaft and head selection determined, and what is the gapping as you transition to non set wedges?

Clubs themselves won’t get you to single. New clubs are fun and it is ideal to get the best tools for you but you will still have to work on your game.

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Driver:  :ping-small: G400 Max 9* with UST Proforce V2
Fairway: :titelist-small: TS3 15* set  w/Project X Hzardous Smoke
Hybrids:  :titelist-small: 816H1 19* set at 18* w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype
                :titelist-small: 915H  21*  w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype
               :titelist-small: 915H 24*  w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype
Irons:      :srixon-small: 765 6-AW with KBS Tour shafts
Wedge:  :cleveland-small: 588 54-14, 58-12
Putter:  :odyssey-small: Ten S      Backups:  :bobby-grace-1: 6330,   :EVNROLL: ER2.2,  

 

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1 hour ago, cnosil said:

I think either would be fine. The rogue X could also get you to single digit.

Which of the two have the best dispersion, how was shaft and head selection determined, and what is the gapping as you transition to non set wedges?

Clubs themselves won’t get you to single. New clubs are fun and it is ideal to get the best tools for you but you will still have to work on your game.

Thanks. Yes, I realize I can't buy a game, but I do have a ton of shop credit I accumulated in club sponsored events this year. As my game was improving, I did very well in the net division before I leveled out. The problem is, I have to use it or lose it by the end of this year. So if I buy a set of irons, I will also keep the Rogue X, but glook to get something in a different "category(?)".

I just took my first lesson two weeks ago. My "home made" swing has taken me as far as it can. As I've begun to take this game seriously, I've watched the better players at my club. They work on their short games constantly, and plot their way around a course much better then I do. 

I've mentioned in another thread here that a few have told me I already have the game to be in single digits, my two biggest weaknesses are my wedge game, and my course management. One guy told me he could get me there just by riding in the cart and clubbing me. The others agreed. I watch them, ask questions and try to learn. They are always willing to help, because they know I haven't been playing too long, and have worked pretty hard to get to the point I am now. 

As far as gapping, I compared the two sets A wedge to a 54* Cleveland, and it was just what I wanted. I'd then have to see if a 58* or 60* would take the last spot. The shafts were trial and error, I had no set preference.

Edited by Grand Stranded
t
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:ping-small: G400 Max 9*

:callaway-small: Rogue 15*  

:callaway-small: Rogue X 3 & 4 hybrids 

:callaway-small: Rogue X 5-AW 

:cleveland-small: CBX 52* & 58*

:odyssey-small: Stroke Lab Double Wide 34"

 

 

 

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Thanks. Yes, I realize I can't buy a game, but I do have a ton of shop credit I accumulated in club sponsored events this year. As my game was improving, I did very well in the net division before I leveled out. The problem is, I have to use it or lose it by the end of this year. So if I buy a set of irons, I will also keep the Rogue X, but glook to get something in a different "category(?)".
I just took my first lesson two weeks ago. My "home made" swing has taken me as far as it can. As I've begun to take this game seriously, I've watched the better players at my club. They work on their short games constantly, and plot their way around a course much better then I do. 
I've mentioned in another thread here that a few have told me I already have the game to be in single digits, my two biggest weaknesses are my wedge game, and my course management. One guy told me he could get me there just by riding in the cart and clubbing me. The others agreed. I watch them, ask questions and try to learn. They are always willing to help, because they know I haven't been playing too long, and have worked pretty hard to get to the point I am now. 


Still should swing the clubs on a launch monitor and see which work best. Performance is my measurement; give us data and we can provide feedback. Otherwise both are quality iron sets.
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Driver:  :ping-small: G400 Max 9* with UST Proforce V2
Fairway: :titelist-small: TS3 15* set  w/Project X Hzardous Smoke
Hybrids:  :titelist-small: 816H1 19* set at 18* w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype
                :titelist-small: 915H  21*  w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype
               :titelist-small: 915H 24*  w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype
Irons:      :srixon-small: 765 6-AW with KBS Tour shafts
Wedge:  :cleveland-small: 588 54-14, 58-12
Putter:  :odyssey-small: Ten S      Backups:  :bobby-grace-1: 6330,   :EVNROLL: ER2.2,  

 

Member:  MGS Hitsquad since 2017697979773_DSCN2368(Custom).JPG.a1a25f5e430d9eebae93c5d652cbd4b9.JPG

 

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@cnosil I just edited the end of my post to answer your question about wedges and shafts. I appreciate you taking the time to ask and offer advice.

Edited by Grand Stranded
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:ping-small: G400 Max 9*

:callaway-small: Rogue 15*  

:callaway-small: Rogue X 3 & 4 hybrids 

:callaway-small: Rogue X 5-AW 

:cleveland-small: CBX 52* & 58*

:odyssey-small: Stroke Lab Double Wide 34"

 

 

 

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[mention=66377]Rtracymog[/mention] I'm a lefty, so my options are limited when it comes to both demoing and models of clubs.
I sort of get lost with the "pro" designation companies put on clubs. Wouldn't those be more like the Apex pros? I'm assuming they are a lot more demanding then the HM's or Apex, so it's a category I've never tried.

Sorry no luck on the lefty version of the hot metal pro. The hot metal line is in that game improvement area. Even the pro in that model still provides a lot of forgiveness. The Apex Pro fits more into the MP line from Mizuno. Good luck with the search!


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:wilson_staff_small:  Cortex w/Aldila Rogue Silver 110 MSI 70X Tipped 1"

:wilson_staff_small: F5 17 degree hybrid w/Rogue Black 85X

:wilson_staff_small:C300 Forged 3-5 w/C-Taper 130X

:wilson_staff_small: FG Tour V6 5-6 w/C-Taper 130X

 :wilson_staff_small: Staff Model Blade 7-PW w/C-Taper 130X

:cleveland-small: RTX4 52, 56, 60 w/S400 Tour Issue

:EVNROLL: ER7

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I hit the Hot Metal and Apex side by side and settled on the Ping G410 irons. The Hot Metals had lower spin for me, which is not going to help accuracy and ability to hold greens which should be a primary factor for an aspiring single digit player. Irons need to be demo'd to ensure the spin rates and launch windows work for your game. The weight of the shaft is huge for consistency and timing. 

Apex were the best for me followed by the PINGs. I decided on the G410 to save $400-500 Canadian (30%) on the price difference and possibly get a more forgiving club when my swing was not dialed in, but the PINGs also gave better spin numbers than the Mizunos. I went into the fitting assuming I was going to end up with the Mizunos or possibly the M5 irons which I hit well in a separate session. 

I was surprised during the fitting at how forgiving the Apex irons were, they were also the longest of all the irons I hit because of good launch conditions and the lighter shafts helping swing speed as most other clubs were in the 105g range. (This comparison included Z585, M5, Hot Metal, G410).

My fitting was outdoors off range mats and if I ever get fit for irons again I will look for a place to hit them off grass at the very least, if not an on-course demo (I play close to standard length/lie) or a practice facility to hit pitches and chips. This touch shots are where these hot faced GI irons seem to struggle, but maybe it is more just the feel off the clubface. The Apex have a great feel with the forged face but the Mizuno is probably as close as a cast club can be. 

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:cobra-small: F9 Driver 9*, 5-6 FWY at 17*

:cobra-small: Baffler 2H/5H

:ping-small: G700 4i, G410 5-UW, Glide 2.0 54, 60*

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I also came from the CF16 (played them for 4 years) and went to the 919 Forged. Playability-wise, I find them very similar so I didn't see the need to go HM or HMP. Another issue I had with the HM was gapping, the PW and my Vokey GW were about 25 yards apart, and didn't have that issue with the 919F.

FWIW, I play off 16. Personal best being a 79.

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I was fitted about 2 weeks ago at a Club Champion and he fit me for the shafts first then we went through heads. He said that was the best method to get launch considerations correct. I had it narrowed down to Mp20 and Apex. The Apex took the cake by going about 10 yards longer.

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On 11/18/2019 at 3:59 PM, tchat07 said:

I was fitted about 2 weeks ago at a Club Champion and he fit me for the shafts first then we went through heads. He said that was the best method to get launch considerations correct. I had it narrowed down to Mp20 and Apex. The Apex took the cake by going about 10 yards longer.

Sent from my SM-G950U using MyGolfSpy mobile app
 

What models were you hitting? I'm just wondering if the distance difference was due to lofts. The Apex 7i is 30.5*. The MP-20 MB is 34*, and the other MP-20 models are 32*. 

I'm in the market for some news irons, so I'm curious what others are learning. I hit the Apex irons at a demo day over the summer. I just didn't care for the feel. Could have been the shafts, though. They were pretty limited on shaft options. I'm going in for a fitting in a couple of weeks, and will be looking at Mizunos. I hit some MP-18s the other day, and they felt fantastic. I haven't had Mizunos since the MP-60s, and I am missing them. Might have to give the Apex another shot when I find the correct shaft. 


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Woods: Turner H-2 3W, 5W, 7W Aldila NV 65 Stiff 

Irons: :cobra-small: King F8 6i - PW Steelfiber i110 Stiff

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MP20’s are sticky sweet. They’ll be in the running for my next clubs. Another club I go back and forth on are the PTX Pros...

and I wouldn’t mind trying the sub70 699 pros.

theres really just too many clubs to choose from anymore

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What models were you hitting? I'm just wondering if the distance difference was due to lofts. The Apex 7i is 30.5*. The MP-20 MB is 34*, and the other MP-20 models are 32*. 
I'm in the market for some news irons, so I'm curious what others are learning. I hit the Apex irons at a demo day over the summer. I just didn't care for the feel. Could have been the shafts, though. They were pretty limited on shaft options. I'm going in for a fitting in a couple of weeks, and will be looking at Mizunos. I hit some MP-18s the other day, and they felt fantastic. I haven't had Mizunos since the MP-60s, and I am missing them. Might have to give the Apex another shot when I find the correct shaft. 
I hit and purchased the HMB. I was think same thing that the stronger left was carrying it further.i believe it was based off the launch angle. I went with the HMBs though loved the consistency plus they're very good looking clubs.20200116_113816.jpeg

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Of course it's all about swing and practice practice practice!

 

 

But the Rogue X's are a very big iron. I bought one just to test out and hit around at the range, and wow it's huge. Abnormally so. The Rogue Pro is a more normal iron size.

 

The Callaway Apex is the perfect iron all around. I have the 16's but the 19's are good too. They are not bulky or chunky or overtly game-improvement in any way, but they are a very well built (Read: Forgiving) club. I will probably get a set of the 19's at some point now that the price is coming down (can be had for around $800 last I checked). The shape of the 19's is even sleeker and more aerodynamic and should satisfy discerning 'player's' eyes as far as a compact top-line.

 

The Mizunos are great as well, and as someone else said, you might not need the most 'forgiving' of the lineup (marketing). Go for build quality (forged).

 

These are 2 of the best irons on the market so you are looking in the right place. In my experience, American irons will have more tech (Read: springy face effect when hit properly) and the Japanese irons will be more traditional (a quality forging that will never under-perform).

 

If you are a very good golfer and have a very consistent swing, then of course getting a fitting is the only way to go. If you are inconsistent like most golfers, a fitting is still good but the results will be skewed as to how you are hitting that day, how your swing is changing from minute to minute, etc.

 

To summarize, just pick one! Both are great and will be an improvement over the bulky Rogue X's. 

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I went through a fitting with Club Champion recently and I ended up with the Titleist T300's.  I came in with a mix of Rogue X and older Callaways, and told them I was really partial to the Hot Metals.  We spent about 4 hours just on irons, and I honestly thought I was going to end up with the Pings, but when we looked at all the TrackMan data, the dispersion on the Titleist won out, even over the Mizunos.  These were not even on my radar when I walked in, but I've been very pleased with how they feel as well as how they look.  I hit them better than the Rogue X's without a doubt.

Just another data point.

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