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Rory McIlroy says that Greens Books should be banned


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So, there was a thread about Arm Locking needing to be banned because a Tour player said so...so now here is the next iteration of what needs to be banned in golf.  Rory says that reading books should be eliminated, "it's just taking away a skill that takes time and practice"

Personally I think this is getting a bit ridiculous, I mean what's next?  I'm sure someone will say that we should not be able to put a line on our balls anymore.  What are your thoughts guys? 

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I’m not for banning a whole lot of things, but I do agree with getting rid of the green books. I think this would be the “great separator” of talent on Tour, and I think it was what was intended when golf first started. Reading greens is an art, and for folks like me who don’t do it well visually, AimPoint has been a big help. Yeah, get rid of the books.

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Anyone who is better than me must not be allowed to be better than me because reasons such and such... BRING ON THE RULES CHANGES!!!!!!!

No but seriously though, I am not for banning things generally. Something like armlock would target a small number of players, greens books on the other hand would target all players... Bottom line, I don't care either way lol

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5 minutes ago, MyWifesSwingCoach said:

Anyone who is better than me must not be allowed to be better than me because reasons such and such... BRING ON THE RULES CHANGES!!!!!!!

No but seriously though, I am not for banning things generally. Something like armlock would target a small number of players, greens books on the other hand would target all players... Bottom line, I don't care either way lol

Yeah, and I'm pretty sure the Tour hands those greens books out to all the players as they check-in...whereas I would have to probably have to pay for something like that.  I know Golf Logix has greens books for purchase, and I have a couple of those.  They help out some, but you still have to determine the starting line and speed yourself, which is what confuses me about what McIlroy said about them taking the skill out of the game.  Also, on a side note, the Tour players have caddies to help them read greens, and the Tour also marks the spot for the hole for the following round...so that's usually the first thing the caddie looks for when they walk up to the green, so he can mark it down in his book...then he reads the current putt his player has. 

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https://golfweek.usatoday.com/2021/06/16/pga-tour-green-reading-books-outlaw-next-season/

 

THEY ARE GONE!

But who cares, there is no statistical evidence that I am aware of that they have helped. Just like anchoring or armlock. 

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I wouldn't mind seeing them eliminated, and I think the Ruling Bodies agree, in general, but they couldn't find a way to write that rule without eliminating all course diagrams and yardage books.  So what they did is to limit the scale of any drawings, and the size of the individual pages.  I'm fine with the limitations on size and scale that the Rules now apply.    

And as I clicked to post this, @THEZIPR23 posted the link saying that the Tour will outlaw them next season.  I'll be interested to read any rule that they eventually issue.  To some extent, this Condition of Competition would ban something that is expressly permitted under the Rules of Golf, something the PGA Tour has generally tried to avoid.

Edited by DaveP043
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I have read the articles and how the players are paying $170 for them and how Augusta didn’t allow them, etc.  I really think there are some missing details.   My interpretation of this ban is that players will no longer be able to purchase and use commercially made green books that companies like puttview, strakaline, and golflogix make.  Essentially topography maps of the greens that show slopes and slope percentages.   Players and caddies will still have the option to build their own green charts with the information they want. Players were able to and did this at Augusta.  I wish the articles or someone would clarify what is really meant by a green reading book.  

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12 minutes ago, THEZIPR23 said:

https://golfweek.usatoday.com/2021/06/16/pga-tour-green-reading-books-outlaw-next-season/

 

THEY ARE GONE!

But who cares, there is no statistical evidence that I am aware of that they have helped. Just like anchoring or armlock. 

Not quite gone but most likely gone after the next vote

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23 minutes ago, DaveP043 said:

I wouldn't mind seeing them eliminated, and I think the Ruling Bodies agree, in general, but they couldn't find a way to write that rule without eliminating all course diagrams and yardage books.  So what they did is to limit the scale of any drawings, and the size of the individual pages.  I'm fine with the limitations on size and scale that the Rules now apply.    

And as I clicked to post this, @THEZIPR23 posted the link saying that the Tour will outlaw them next season.  I'll be interested to read any rule that they eventually issue.  To some extent, this Condition of Competition would ban something that is expressly permitted under the Rules of Golf, something the PGA Tour has generally tried to avoid.

I tend to agree that the USGA/RA will struggle with correct wording or enforceability of the rule. My guess is that they will just be banned on the Tour. Will be an interesting test case because the tour doesn't run all the events and like you said have avoided this type of ruling in the past. 

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I heard today on Sirius that they are gone.  If it takes another vote it seems they will be because the first vote was overwhelming.  

 

On the one hand I'm happy as it should speed up play (unless csnoil is correct and they are allowed to make their own) on the other hand I'm wondering how you still allow yardage books while banning green books.  I'm certainly not nor have I have been at a level where a yardage book has helped beyond front/middle/back - I really only need front/middle - middle/back and that's about my shot making ability - actually I'd probably be wisest to take the middle every time and play for it.  

 

Sirius was funny because they were saying if Bryson is for it, the tour will ban it - no more one length clubs. 🙂

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23 minutes ago, cnosil said:

 I wish the articles or someone would clarify what is really meant by a green reading book.  

I think Interpretation 4.3a/1 gives an idea of the level of detail that is allowed right now.  You can find examples of the Straka and similar books

 

8 minutes ago, THEZIPR23 said:

My guess is that they will just be banned on the Tour.

The Tour will have the same problem, how do you eliminate one type of paper mapping without eliminating ALL paper mapping?

Edited by DaveP043
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I don't see the big deal about green books. Knowing how a green breaks shouldn't have to be some secret that you have to figure out while playing in a tournament.

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4 hours ago, PMookie said:

I’m not for banning a whole lot of things, but I do agree with getting rid of the green books. I think this would be the “great separator” of talent on Tour, and I think it was what was intended when golf first started. Reading greens is an art, and for folks like me who don’t do it well visually, AimPoint has been a big help. Yeah, get rid of the books.

+1. I'll be surprised if they ban them, and I noted the link above. I'm for anything that reduces the time players take - some of them are ridiculous on greens.

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3 hours ago, DaveP043 said:

I think Interpretation 4.3a/1 gives an idea of the level of detail that is allowed right now.  You can find examples of the Straka and similar books

 

Understand that.   They are generically saying green reading books.   Does that prevent a player and caddie from going to each green and making  their own notes about the green to include slopes.  Or does it mean that I can't buy one of the straka books and use it.   Two different things.   Augusta doesn't allow any companies to map their greens therefore all that exists is books with players notes.  

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5 minutes ago, cnosil said:

Understand that.   They are generically saying green reading books.   Does that prevent a player and caddie from going to each green and making  their own notes about the green to include slopes.  Or does it mean that I can't buy one of the straka books and use it.   Two different things.   Augusta doesn't allow any companies to map their greens therefore all that exists is books with players notes.  

This is a part of that Interpretation:

Quote

Hand drawn or written information about a putting green is only allowed if contained in a book or paper meeting the size limit and written by the player and/or his or her caddie.

So the players are allowed to use their own notes from previous rounds, including practice rounds.  I believe the Straka and other commercial books are done within the size and scale limits allowed under the Rules.

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21 minutes ago, DaveP043 said:

This is a part of that Interpretation:

So the players are allowed to use their own notes from previous rounds, including practice rounds.  I believe the Straka and other commercial books are done within the size and scale limits allowed under the Rules.

Sounds like you are interpreting this as anything currently allowed under that interpretation.   I am not sure that is what they are actually what they are going to do.  Especially after saying there would be no green reading books allowed at augusta.  I am thinking they will say that the book can only contain a scaled outline of the greens shape and everything else must be notes made by player or caddie. 

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I don’t see how you legislate this fairly. It will be very interesting to see what finally comes out. 

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4 hours ago, cnosil said:

I have read the articles and how the players are paying $170 for them and how Augusta didn’t allow them, etc.  I really think there are some missing details.   My interpretation of this ban is that players will no longer be able to purchase and use commercially made green books that companies like puttview, strakaline, and golflogix make.  Essentially topography maps of the greens that show slopes and slope percentages.   Players and caddies will still have the option to build their own green charts with the information they want. Players were able to and did this at Augusta.  I wish the articles or someone would clarify what is really meant by a green reading book.  

This was my question, I honestly didn’t even know these were pre built for them I thought all the greens books were made by caddie and co during practice rounds (shows how much I pay attention to the tour)

Now that I have the info definitely ban the pre made ones I guess? I could see it go either way it’ll be a major stink I’m sure 

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30 minutes ago, Lacassem said:

This was my question, I honestly didn’t even know these were pre built for them I thought all the greens books were made by caddie and co during practice rounds (shows how much I pay attention to the tour)

Now that I have the info definitely ban the pre made ones I guess? I could see it go either way it’ll be a major stink I’m sure 

There's a long history of commercially available yardage books, and they've included indications of slopes and terrain for as long as I can remember.  What changed was laser surveys of green contours, the computer technology to interpret that as contour lines and slope percentages, and the systems (like Aimpoint) to effectively use that stuff.  How do you ban one type of information (slopes and contours) but allow the more traditional stuff, like general indications of contours?  I'm interested to see how the Tour decides to word their new rules.

But that article says that it wasn't a close vote, the vast majority of players at the meeting wanted to ban the greens books, so maybe just a minor stink.

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